Dead batteries - with odd charging circuitry 

I see what you said there 😂😂😂😂

thats always good unless you are a naturist and trim the wrong wood.

That is when you _want_ it to fail. Oh, NUTS! The Chainsaw stopped working!

That's some good cutting humor!

This completely defeats the fun of gardening !😂

yes, its a shame when you think ooh I have a tool for that and the battery's flat and wont take a charge. I guess its an excuse to buy another. 👍👍

@@dcallan812 One can never have enough batteries.

Whilst

That's like Gandma's old '89 Buick when she said "Of course it will run. Nobody has used it for the past 10 years. It's just been sitting in the garage since Grandpa left it there."

@@robinbrowne5419 Ouch! It will need some TLC, Grandma. 🤣😂

HA, same here.

Going full Meathook ab0rti0n

Going beyond the X-ray.

Has AvE stopped posting videos cus I've not seen any notifications from him 😂

"DO IT" -Emperor Palpatine

The tone of his recordings are something to behold.

One RU-vidr had a large collection of old cell phones, carefully stored. Because you can't remove the battery, he found a lot of them had discharged and the batteries swollen, damaging the cases.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-OfM0GqsIB6c.html

The main concern is whether internal damage has occurred.

@@bigclivedotcomname brand 3.7v cells are charged to -12v and dead shorted as two of the tests, and must not explode or catch fire to pass. Something extreme like that anyway. I think li-ion cells are most dangerous if either punctured or overheat & unable to puff up if lipo (creates a thermal runaway like situation?).

@@davadoff To be clear, that test requires that they don't catastrophically fail, but certainly doesn't require that they work afterwards 😅 IIRC the main concern is that the main result of internal damage due to overdischarge is internal shorts, which will kill the cell if they are small, but can also be a very bad day if those shorts are just enough to start failing at a higher voltage. If he's confident that the other cell groups didn't get pulled down too low then they may be ok, but realistically they aren't that expensive so it's probably not worth the risk.

@@davadoff Just a couple points, tests like you described are done on a small number of li-on products through a production run and can't guarantee any individual item as a battery as much as confirm outcome of process. But like you referenced, name brands "quality" manufacturers generally hold a standard... but who do you think made the batteries for an item like this with such a low overall cost to purchase? And your a bit off with the problems you listed. Heat yeah, is a problem but gas is not a cause but a consequence. Problematic temperature that destroys a cell is caused by another cell going into thermal-runaway from the biggest and most common problem with these batteries, being damage or condition caused during charging. These batteries need very specific charging requirements that are almost always neglected because of cost efficiency determined by calculated risk assessment by manufacturers. Reputable companies don't neglect safety but they make chargers that are optimised to the habits of users so to get best performance and life from a battery and not for what is actually optimal if the human equation was removed. Cheap dodgy companies skimp on everything that's not mandated by law! Physical damage is absolutely a cause of a failure or development of failure, but not a statistical cause of significant note. Li-on batteries should be stored at about 60% charge and not discharged under 10% or charged over 90% and optimal input should be done by a complex system with limits set on the individual capacity and trimed during charging to follow the "curve" between those limits relative to state of charge! This is not the sort of finicky factor people want to pay for or bother with, so tradeoffs are made and consequences occur!

I 100% agree with you. Would be nice if they didn't hardwire the battery cells in.

I agree in theory but the issue with lithium cells is that if you don't hardwire them in, you either use: 1) springs/tabs which aren't super secure and under high vibration situations or drops, small shakeups of the cells at high SoC can result in arcing which isn't healthy for the contact point or cell itself and will result in higher resistance and therefore higher temperatures (believe me the mOhms add up with these things, especially in powertool packs) 2) a system of clamps that puts the cells under pressure, which may not be good for them long term. They're far more robust than the pouch cells, but they weren't really designed to take load like that The reality is that spotwelding the cells is not only the cheapest and fastest, but also likely the safest way to pack them

@@crumpus5815 While spot welding is cheap and fast, an enclosed battery compartment is the best alternative. Lots of devices use these without any problems. Hmm ... a thought just occurred to me. Why are the batteries attached directly to a device? Why not have the battery separate (attached to your belt, perhaps) with a cable running from it to the device. Yeah, sounds just like a power cord but I can see some advantages here. Easier to swap devices - just plug them into the same battery pack. And easy to swap out packs. Could also swap to a power cord if the batteries aren't performing. Best of both worlds.

You do get heavy duty tools with a separate belt mounted battery pack.

Many big hardware stores have battery recycling programmes that, I'd assume, would actually recycle the batteries and extract the good cells. There are businesses that sell reconditioned name-brand powertool batteries, but for these no-name batteries they're only good for some cheap cells.

I think they can only go negative when they're in series and other cells are shunting current through them.

its so slight negative it may just be the meters accuracy

Ive notice its very common in non-rechargeable standard lithium batteries as well as a load being necessary when testing... lithium chemistry is just generally problematic it seems. Lol

Topping them up is not a good idea for storage. They like to sit at about 40%, if they are not in use for a long while.

@@dr.robertnick9599 Dangerous information Robert. Storing at 40% SoC is ideal for individual cells but when you're storing a battery pack with a BMS that may have quiescent current draw it's best to store them fully charged, preferably in a cold place. This gives you the maximum dormancy period without danger of loss. If you can keep a strict regimen of cycling them once every x months then yes, 40% SoC is ideal for battery packs with BMS also. Better battery packs have extremely low quiescent current draw. I can (and do) store my Bosch 18v batteries in a 4 degree fridge at around 50% SoC and only check them annually (and they don't seem to lose charge). However cheaper batteries such as this one can have quite a high quiescent current draw and will need topping off / cycling / using every 3 months or less. For cheap packs I fully charge them, use them in a tool to drain about 5% of their capacity, then store. It seems to work best. Cheers.

​@@dr.robertnick9599 Isn't it like 3.85v - 3.9v being the ideal storage voltage? At least that is what I store my salvaged vape batteries at...

@@dr.robertnick9599 I think you're right though for some reason I've had 80% as the ideal storage charge. Not sure and the voltage thing too.

I used to watch him all the time but found my interests changing as time went on. I'm not a tool jockey and some of his humor goes over my head.

Bot

It's a good thing to do and if you live near a TESCO they have a battery dumping bin. So I keep an eye out for packs in there as they are free !

I personally think NiMh is still a very good battery technology. It is simpeler that Li-Ion / Li-Po because you don't need protection boards and NiMh cells are just pain safer. Ideal for the occasional usage. Although remember to charge your battery packs before usage.

​@Frankhe78 the worst thing about nimh cells is, before you use them/charge them you are best discharging them before you charge them as only topping up nimh can cause you to loose some capacity. Meaning the already low capacity of nimh gets so much worse over time

@@HootMaRoot It really depends on what you want and what you need. Li-ion an LiPo have their advantages and disadvantages. One disadvantage of Lithium technology is that they wear when you store them at the maximum voltage. LiFePO4 has less wear and no thermal runaway.

all my battery packs are numbered so none of them get a chance to hide down the back of the cupboard hoping i will forget about them. its not foolproof but it helps.

@@Frankhe78 it's probably my early/mid teens and having nimh batteries in my rc cars that I have such distain for nimh. And when lifepo4 and lipo pouches became very affordable 20 years ago not so much these days. Giving so much more capacity being able to run more powerful items and not needing half as much care to keep them in tiptop condition

Just to clarify, this MOSFET is not really being used upside down, it's the schematic that is what I would consider drawn upside down. The charger line is the most positive voltage and is therefore connected to the Source and would normally be shown above the battery line, hence with the MOSFET shown the other way up. However there are situations where MOSFETs are genuinely used upside down ie with the positive supply connected to the Drain on a P-Channel type, an example being synchronous rectifiers.

I tried recovering some 7yr old cells, 0v cells to be clear and It seems like 4/6 are coming back, i used some 10/30 ma to charge them

If all else fails and the cells don't respond, drill a smallish hole through the center of the Positive cap and push the Reset/wake-up button that is hidden right beneath it. 🤣🤣🤣 NOTE....It is of the utmost importance that I must mention, this is one of the most effective means of validating natural selection.

​@@wayneselby5415 That is the vent button, no?

@@NIGHTDREADEDI can't say I know what it's called, but if that is the name of it, then yes. All I know is when a cell over heats, the expansion /internal pressure, mechanically breaks contact disabling the cell. To mention IMO, with all lithium batteries (LTO being an exception) are something else. The marvels of creation are highly underestimated in regard to their sheer power and ability to fuck shit up. I've done a lot of PJs and projects using reclaimed cells and yes I have learnt to respect them. My most favourite saying, most things in life are like farts, if you have to force it, it's going to be shit. If it does not want to work, rather let it be because it will fight back. The possible costs are not worth saving a couple cells. The cells that do comply teamed with the correct protection and prevention, ie. BMS, fuses etc, by all means, go for it. I'm a firm believer in the reuse of everything. Only within reason.✌️

@@wayneselby5415 you forgot to mention that the Cell must be fully charged for the button to be accessible

Yep, all sorts of things go on, no doubt. I've also seen people soldering wires direct to the terminals of an Alkaline PP3..

@@thephilpott2194 Don't be so arrogant. There's nothing wrong with using cells that have more than 80% of their life left. We're not all so absurdly rich as you and can afford to waste our money and the World's resources; do you replace the battery in your meter every time you use it? How can you compare reusing perfectly fine cells (ones that have been left for a month, then had the voltage checked _and_ load tested) to soldering wires to a battery? Some of us do have good quality spot welders and the skills to use them and warrant our work (we would also stop anyone from soldering batteries). None of the repacked batteries has been returned within the 12 month warranty. No wonder UK is stuffed.

Problems with 'elf and safe tea'.

Our Lowe's is like that. Just piling all the batteries in a big plastic bin. I hope they have a pie dish handy.

Ah yes, the big bang of the cells pressure release going off! Must have startled the crap out of you. I've seen those go off, but not in person.

Dam I would have thought car manufacturers would be that careless to not have individual cell monitoring with charge/discharge ability to keep all the cells at the same voltage. That just dangerous. Even my rc cars from 15+ years ago I had alarms for when a cell dropped undervoltage and I would balance charge every time due to seeing what happens when lipo cells go wrong

@@HootMaRoot You can read the block voltage in Toyota Hybrids. I don't know how much information is free or blocked in the vehicles of other manufacturers. The described method of disassembling and re-arranging cells and blocks applies to a guy in Poland who buys and sells hybrid batteries of Toyota. His name is "hybridrep" and he travels all over Poland and Germany. He comes to you and changes the defect battery of your Toyota Hybrid in front of your door to a recycled one. It costs half of the price that Toyota wants for a new one.

@@volvo09 Yes, I was shocked by the BANG! It happened at 11 pm on a street in the middle of nowhere, I wore just light clothes, it was just above freezepoint with snowy rain, the car was loaded up to the roof and I didn't have money in my pocket. At least my cellphone was operational. Can you imagine how stinky a 214 V and 50 to 100 A short-circuit is inside the car? 🤮 It smells like a dozen burnt Chinese computers. 😂

As I commented elsewhere, just be very careful using Parkside batteries as they have no FET to turn them off when the voltage drops too low.

Now you have been told !

Hello Bot

Yeah, quite a few comments from different accounts with identical wording.

you can by them cheap for drones and you can vary the low volt alarm within a nice range.

Like the very occasional chirp from a smoke alarm - that has you wandering around the hut like a stunned mullet trying to work out what it is/where it is coming from?! 😱😵‍💫😈

@@theoztreecrasher2647 Oh hell !! been there

I did ponder if a leaky capacitor was an issue, but these are very low value, so less of a risk.

The paddle is just a guard. No switch.

Nope, most (at least) just dump charge through a shunt resistance from the fully charged cells and then continue to force current through the string until they (try to) pull the low cells up. That's why your charger will often show quite a few more mAhrs going into a lipo than the battery pack is rated for. Not a good sign!

I've never come across any that power the BMS from one cell - that sounds particularly nasty!

I used to have an 18650 powered desk fan and would frequency forget to turn it off and regularly discharged cells to 0v. I did that to some cells 10x and the capacity loss was surprisingly low, but they were not at that level for more than a few days. Junk old 900mah batteries would degrade to 700ish after that kind of repeated abuse.

I'm not sure why. The cross welding might just be for ease of manufacturing, the two on a common pole may be to increase the effect with a manageable wire size, and it's possible that where they are staggered, it may be to create two phase shifts.

Yeah, you can't prevent it being charged, which can be bad if the cells become unbalanced and one is overcharged without the charger being able to tell because all it knows about is the overall voltage. Lidl Parkside ones have no FETs at all but use the data connection to tell chargers or tools to stop.

You may think so, but personally I've found that often someone, more in the position of observer than stakeholder and generally unqualified to assert their opinion is the one that gets the final say. Then there's the "first thing that comes to mind" natural tendency of people. So your in the house, the fire needs more wood, you grab the pocket pruner, over excitedly trimming away with all the focus that a new novelty gets, with the motor whiring away, you don't quite make out what someone just said but they yell your name brining your attention to the sawdust that was thrown in fair quantity onto a hot surface and is now smoking like crazy so you jump up and fan away the smoke but to late the smoke detector got all it needed to squawk like a Karen! All good you'll know next time... so what? Well when this little story moment gets out, the majority of people that get wind of it are going to hear.. You started a CHAINSAW in the house and were waving it around yelling and screaming at people! LOL funny until it causes the authorities to believe your a dangerous threat ... we'll go back to where it's funny coz my related experience gets dark from this point LOL

You don't have kids or other trained monkeys for those types of maintenance jobs?! 🤔😉😊

@@theoztreecrasher2647 I just noticed your moniker! :-D Well, some of us actually enjoy "heavier duty" gardening (which is handy living out in the sticks!)

The chains come in various sizes (4" and 6" seem to be the most common) so you should check for the correct size when buying spares or swapping. They are very cheap, though, but the price reflects the quality.

The risk is the other cells are often overcharged because of the dead cells in the middle. It sounds like this circuit has a protection preventing that though.

That would work. It would take them down to about 2.5V and be functional as the discharge was happening.

I'm not sure how complex their system is. It may be balancing them slowly.

Einhell battery chainsaw with 2X20V batteries in series, has similarly diodes on battery connectors. Maybe, those batteries don't have those safety diodes or to be on safe side those are on battery connectors aswell.

@@Tegelane5 if it is explictly made to be series connected, it may have integrated diodes. I killed a battery pack once that was not made for series connection and the water kettle drew a little too much current for one of the BMS to like and poof it went up in smoke. This was before i learnt about the antiparallel diodes and added those to all of my circuits where protected batteries are connected in series.

A short term fix for older NiCd cells with internal shorts forming was to jolt them with high current to blow the whiskers away, but it's a last resort and definitely not suited to lithium cells.

Some use a heater that allows you to pull hot air over the plant material to vaporise the oils. Others for resinous concentrate use a heated ceramic cup.

All videos are hidden on that channel due to a strike on this connected channel. RU-vid has been a bit trigger-happy with unjustified strikes, so I've moved to Twitch.

When I can't stay awake anymore.

Yes. If the voltage is too low it can't detect they're there. If you put them in a dumb charger it will raise the voltage to the point they can be detected.

I’m 99.9% sure Clive made a video on how to make a USB NiMH trickle charger. 5v and a current limiting resistor to give a few milliamps should bring the NiMH cell back to life.

@@davadoff Sometimes you need more than that - the dreaded dendrite shorts the cell out and you have to burn it away!

@@matthewmarks6951 Hook up your DC arc welder and give the cell terminals a tap? 🤔😜😱

if you can get your hands on Liitokala chargers eg. Lii-PL400, they are smart enough to trickle charge the dead battery into life. Found out myself after wasting many batteries to stupid Energizer charger with similar problem as you are having.

It depends on whether the battery low voltage shutoff is in the tool or battery.

What happened to the battery warning light?

@@matthewmarks6951 honestly don't know. I noticed it didnt have a battery gauge, but I suppose it should have at least warned him it was low.

There are some interesting videos showing useful service life from lead acid batteries being completely reverse charged.