Knowledge is power, Charlie. You may have a Degree in Philosophy. But you always pay attention while attending the University of Life. Philosophy teaches the disciplines of reason and logic. Life teaches the disciplines of integrity and honesty. Along with everything else that makes up the exceptional man that you are.
Well said. My personal variation on your statement would be that life presents us with the opportunities to embrace integrity and honesty and make them part of who we are. The choice is there and it’s up to us. Chuck chose wisely.
Chuck, You ought to be teaching classes in bus building. There just seems to be so much mis-information floating around about almost every aspect of bus conversions. You’re a national treasure, skoolie-wyse!
Thank you. Now i dont have to do framing under my floors. I still plan on doing some wood just to have something to screw the boards into. But this saves a lot of time.
2003, for our ExpeditionVehicle build, we laid one-inch pink-board, then half-inch marine plywood painted on all surfaces to seal. . Our visible floor is bamboo around the perimeter, slate in the center. . Over two decades full-time live-aboard, the pink-board shows zero signs of compression or deterioration.
Great idea for a test. However, I am not one of those people who think they need to frame in the floor to prevent the foam crushing!!! Keep up the good work.
Great to know - Thanks for the demonstration - as I was SOLD on using 250, however in my local Phoenix, AZ market - was having a hard time finding it. Now I'm convinced that Foamular 150 will be more than adequate for my purposes!
Too cool. And a lot of fun. My kids would have enjoyed this science when they were in kindergarten. Especially the one who got her undergrad degree in physics.
I love this idea so much. Probably just because it confirms my own math. lol! Now I'm wondering if I really have to add wood framing my ceiling... Spray foam between the ribs, then cover foam boards with a layer of plastic paneling and headliner fabric and glue the whole panels up. Reduce thermal bridging.
"No one likes a butt flappin' in the breeze!" ROFL! Greatest line ever. Also, while I don't believe it's an issue to not frame a foam floor, it would still be useful to see you walking from side to side on it. You hit the nail on the head (no pun intended) when you said to use tongue and groove, though, as that will prevent crushing the weak points. You'll still want to put some kind of support at the entrance, though. One thing I want to mention, which is probably pretty obvious, this only works for FOAM floors. I'll be using Havelock wool in mine and that means I need to frame it. Why did I choose Havelock wool? That's because it's fireproof, and I'm planning on putting fireproof paint over the wood where flamables are nearby. (Propane heater, wires, etc. That way if something would otherwise catch the place on fire, it'll naturally be quarantined.
Thanks for the great content. You are a good teacher. I learn many things from you. I totally appreciate it. Keep putting up great content. Have a blessed day!
Great stuff! I knew it would be fine as this is the same stuff I used to put under in floor heat basement slab pours here in Canada. I think it's actual code now whether it's in floor heat or not.
Also thanks for the video, I’m laying down the floors in my stepvan later this month (hopefully) and I was planning on using the formular product. So this is good to see.
My Dad had School Bus Company and He had a Floor Jack just like that one...we had 1 bus converted to camper Coleman stove 2 sets bunk beds portapotty fishing poles 28 inch cast iron skillet for fish frys...
Hey Chuck, I am so glad I found you. I’m getting ready to start on my bus. I have a question. If you know you are going to tap into your tank for your heater , can you just tap into your tank before you finish the floor? It seems like it would be way easier to get to that way. Thanks
Their are many engineering examples of composite roofs and floors like you are suggesting, structural it's a sound time tested solution in the building world.
We really needed to see a point loading test without the osb material. Show how much the bus tire pushes in the foam. I would bet it pushes it in, but probably not as much as you think it would.
@@ChuckCassadyYT If I had to justify it for the sake of the video I would say it would show how awesome the foam material is, but to be honest it doesn't add anything to the conversation. It would just satisfy my curiosity on what would happen. My inner child was screaming "run it over!" Lol
Not surprised, but VERY cool to see. I'm happy you also used 1" material as well in this experiment, however I do enjoy a good breeze in the butt flaps every now & again.......
I LOVED the bus not crushing the 4" & 1" foam board. ... What does that closed-cell spray foam do with this experiment? Or is the spray foam a frame REQUIRED product to be effective? Thank you for sharing your wisdom!
Any value in adding something rigid under the foam? I know floors can be wavy in the bus (mine are) not sure if it's as distributed with that sort of mess.
My one concern with this technique isn't the crush resistance of the foam, but the strength of the adhesive and foam in tension or shear. Furniture (and passengers sitting in furniture) are going to be attached to the subfloor which is glued to the foam which is in turn glued to the chassis. Flip that upside down in a rollover accident or hit something hard that imparts a shearing force and the foam itself might split apart, sending everything attached to the sub floor flying. I suspect that this is why many buses and vans with wheelchair securements and L-track in the floor bolt all the way through to the body's subframe. That being said, wood framing wouldn't necessarily help with this either. And one might be able to get away with securing the subfloor to the chair rails on the sides of the body. And even if you do end up through bolting the subfloor to the body, drilling a few holes for mechanical fasteners is still easier, quicker and arguably creates less thermal bridging than building a frame to support the subfloor.
How about no subfloor osb either? Would attaching finish flooring directly to the foam board be suitable? Btw, I'm wanting to build a promaster, not a skoolie.
Where did you buy your foamiest? Am I correct to assume the kind they sell at Lowe’s and Home Depot is not the right kind since it is made for walls and not under slab?! Tia
It not about the weight of the bus, it about the glue of the plywood on to the insulation. It is all about the screw points of the plywood to a secure structure on the bus to keep the plywood truly down, with glue.
LOL ....you will never silence everybody !! I dont think its a compression issue people have , i think its more of a lack of mechanical fastener issue ... I may be wrong..
you think your method of subflooring would also apply to a box truck? I'm wondering if they flex more and a frame would be required for some reason. I love how simple you do it.
i like them experiments but chuck wen ya'lls doin this you and Ben need ta be wear'n them there white lab coats ;0) BTW great demonstration off great gravitational pressure lol
You make fantastic videos! Could I ask you how thin I can go with the subfloor extruded polystyrene? I have a low profile Hiace and I can't afford using too much height.
I thought the framing around the insulation panels was so you had something to screw the plywood into? I had never heard of being concerned about it crushing.
Good science, but not perfect science. A complete functional test would be to have equal plywood/foam combinations under all four corners (that's got to do with the mass vectors and stuff). For example, when weighing aircraft, all wheels have got to be at equal height, using scales under the wheels, or a combination of scales and height blocks. BUT, your point is still valid; no damage to the foam, regardless. Question: have you ever converted a bus to a complete cargo conversion? Not a combo cargo/living space. I always thought that, with the large interior space (without seats), roof lifted, and a functional, but large, one piece rear door, it would make a nice, cheap, poor-mans tractor-trailer. Certainly, one could get seasonal contracts with FedEx & UPS. Even a rolling work/machine shop!
there is no perfect science mon frere! I think you'd be better off buying a box truck than doing a roof raise on a bus and making a cargo door large enough to use, but thats just me!
I plan to use my bus for full-time living in all four seasons. I am 5.1 in height so I don't plan to raise the roof. My sons are 6.3 & 6.4 (they won't be living with me but they will be visiting and taking an occasional road trip) so I want to use the 2-inch instead of the 4-inch. Can I get your advice?
The 1/2" or 3/4" subfloor is more than enough to hold screws/nails for any wall framing or cabinets you'd be putting in a skoolie. The fire rating is irrelevant. While it's not very fire resistant at all, if a fire got bad enough that it burned through the wood subfloor, the bus was going to be a total loss anyways.
@@shoutingback09 as a volunteer firefighter and some who would be sleeping in the bus, the fire rating is extremely relevant. Even if it is going to be a total loss, you still need time to escape.
Physicist here. . . The board is stiff enough to spread the weight over a large enough area. If you drop the tire pressure below compressive strength of the foam, you wouldn't need the board at all.
Nice baseline compression test. But I am also curious about degradation due to vibration over time, damage from heavy loads bouncing, point pressure of things like the fridge/freezer feet, impact damage if you drop something, all on the OSB, of course, not on the raw foam. Although no test is complete without testing the raw foam without OSB. Also test water, i.e. soaked and fully submerged tests, because you never know, right? "How would MythBusters do it?", that's what pops in my mind. Don't get me wrong, I despise foam, the environmental toxicity used in production, the pollution, the forever chemicals even long after you junk the bus, etc. I'd love hemp or rock wool or whatever. But at the present time, there's no better material for this application, where minimum weight, and highest R value at low temperatures are important. Similar for finished flooring, I'd love bamboo or something, but the problem of standing water, particularly in doorways, kitchen, toilet, sink, shower, windows, etc, it's problematic. So vinyl is probably best. The off-gassing makes me nauseous. We all can smell whether a floor is synthetic or natural. Marketing BS, corrupt politicians and big-money loosen regulations. Not falling for that nonsense. But again, in this application, at the present time, there seems to be no better material than composite polyvinyl floors. (Got a little off topic here, but have already seen the subfloor video, generally excellent.)
It should even work with expanded polystyrene. I laid 2" of it over the concrete floor in my last house without framing, and then poured a 2" floating concrete screed on top. There was no concrete reinforcement, but I put a little chicken wire in it where the washing machine went, thinking the weight and vibration might crack it. Worked perfectly - no cracks. Later I moved the washing machine to another location where the floor was not reinforced, and there wasn't an issue.
Not sure how I stumbled across your channel but I must say I like your approach. Good work. I have a device that allows one to add Lifepo4 to an existing lead battery system. Might be a good fit in a bus. Feel free to contact me if you want to chat. Clark
@@ChuckCassadyYT I just noticed my longish response was dropped by RU-vid. I guess I shouldn't have included the email address. You can probably find it in your held comments. I'm in the US just now. I would love to chat. Our email is our channel name spelled out at gmail
No it will not, i have builds that are 7 years old with no warping. That is why we paint and seal the wood. We have decades of fine furniture experience in this shop and understand how wood lives. Sealed properly and glued well it will be extremely stable. They build homes out of SIPS panels without issue
@@ChuckCassadyYT could you do a video on how to paint and seal the flooring? Extreme newbie here. I would like for my build to last. Thank you in advance.
We’ve built 4 busses this way, math is your friend. People need to remember your not building a house, you’re building in a bus. Dimensional lumber has no place in a moving vehicle. Your 2 tires have a contact patch of roughly 10 by 10 inches each. At 15 psi rating the foam without the flooring over it would have supported 3000lbs or 5000 with the 25psi foam, add the flooring and that 24” by 24” patch can now support 14,400 lbs with the 25psi rated foam.
