DECWARE Sarah 300B, worth the wait! 

Sasha DAW have 91dB at 4 ohms and you know, Altec-Lansing 604c, there's loads of them in NY have 104dB per watt but they don't use 7 watt amplifiers. We need to look at amplifiers that had 7 watts then use their speakers. Western Electric used horns and you know, in NY there were people that hung these gramophone horns high on the wall and that's what we use with 300B because they're 60% efficient compare to 2% with moving coil speaker.

Thank you Sarah!

Don’t mind the haters. If they don’t value handmade craftsmanship they can get mass-produced gear from elsewhere. As I said in a different post, I’m happy to wait and truly appreciate Decware’s business ethos that doesn’t sacrifice quality for a goal of unlimited growth.

Do what makes you happy? It's a pain being on the waiting list but do what makes you happy? Wow. Steve has his share of oddball comments. No wonder Len Lesser plunked for a micro system. No need to wait and you know, from the Bronx, ignoring English prose, it does the job. Not an audiophile perhaps but it kept him happy.

" Testament" is the right word...

It doesn't hurt that he keeps getting plugged by reviewers who don't have to wait for product. There are other amp makers out there, but I respect your opinion.

Wow, that ancient expression: החצי הטוב יותר. It'd be nice if Steve could get some Audiophiliac System Of The Day photos of the new tube gear and speakers in the rooms actually owned by recent customers.

Are those tube amps good for Heavy Metal, New Wave, Country, and Blues. My tastes vary from Led Zeppelin, RUSH, and Pink Floyd to Bryan Ferry, Lyle Lovett, Gary Moore, and Stevie Ray Vaughan.

@@nostradamus7648 I have had low power tube amps before and with the right speaker they sing, I love Zepp and Floyd and all the rest you mentioned, ideally powered subs always help bring fullness to the bottom end no matter what you're using but with low watt tubes, probably more so.

Well, the unit I had did not hum. And obviously if they all had noise problems Decware would be long out of business. I'm sorry it didn't work out for your friend.

"Fake News": No need to exaggerate [to put it politely] wait-time on Decware amps. Actual wait-time is enough to turn many potential buyers off.

Im sitting at approx 1.5-1.75 yrs till delivery, for a Hand Built Boutique higly sought-after, Masterwork of Tube audio. It is worth it, if it’s what you want. I getting 2 built so I can Bi-Amp or run both in Mono. I can wait for what I know will be my Music Amp for Life.

​​@@DrSinissterNah son, I could buy one used at the same price point waiting around online than waiting for them to build one for you. And I check the list often and know it floats between 1.5 to 2 years often because the list is so long and they only have 3-6 people building em. You can have it...I'll buy one used. Again...that list is too damn long....and they need more people helping them build these out.

Too long wait times

Hey man, thanks for watching!

I took too long to make up my mind on the upgrades on mine (ended up maxing out anyways, always the best decision), which was right around the time Steve reviewed the 25th Anniversary Zen Triode, and had to wait almost half a year longer as a result. Of course it was worth it, but it also made me wonder, are there really audiophiles out there who do not have anything to listen to in the meantime? What's all that impatience and resulting negativity about? On a purely qualitative level, having compared my Decware to e.g. Amplifon, Aries Cerat, Boenicke, Horning, KR Audio, Line Magnetic, Sound Design Atelier and Spectral (and more), while it's true it's not the only world class amp out there, and some have more power driving a greater variety of speakers, none of those is in the same price category. In short, if one is impatient and wants this level of sound quality, there's always the option of spending three times as much or more. But don't fool yourself thinking there's competition out there at the same price level. I certainly haven't heard it. What I can say is that if one were on the fence whether the speakers one owns can at all be driven by a flea watt amplifier, seriously, unless one is confident it's going to work (and/or has contacted Steve and got confirmation), I'd recommend saving up for e.g. a 211, 813 or GM70 SET. But there, low-level listening with something like an Altec Lansing Voice of the Theatre may be a problem (near-impossible to set the volume).

@@keplermission I wouldn't call that a "copy" as any designer worth their salt is going to try and avoid diffraction, and there's only a limited number of ways rounding off or backwards folding baffles - I've built speakers for decades, and doubt we'd be able to point to any "firsts" of anything (I think the MoFi baffle looks good, and I know it works, good enough for me). The SB-M300 was more unique because of the combination of compound and passive radiator internal design. The Design Acoustics designs would appear conventional by modern standards but weren't yet in their era. When you refer to wood as being conventional, it sure isn't nowadays because of the cost. The MoFi speakers are MDF, which is a compromise, semi-affordable and easy to machine. I personally prefer ply or read wood from a sonic perspective, or compound materials that do not just, like MDF for the most part consist of dust plus glue. If your point is that not everything is improving, let me refer to the ancient Romans who I believe were the first to put down in writing that speech and morals were deteriorating - it always seems that way, and in some respects it may be true, but times are constantly changing. In audio, those audiophiles who do listen to music know full well that not everything sounds better than last year, or in some cases, not even better than a hundred years ago. I happen to find people's obsession with and belief in numbers deplorable (as in horse power in cars, forgetting to ask if the new model still weighs the same). It's all a matter of relevance, but you're right, some people appear to be constantly chasing after novelty.

@@keplermission I doubt it. Dome tweeters all resemble each other with the exception of Dynaudio's (and Morel's) inverted suspension, and ones that physically aren't domes (radial breakup modes) to begin with. Fibre reinforced paper cones aren't exactly rare either, nonetheless, they're all designed for a specific application. What's unique is the magnet structure, and that certainly looks like his own. And again, any designer worth their salt builds baffles to be low in diffraction - there's no such thing as "diffraction-free" (if anyone uses that term in their sales blurb, don't buy from them. means they're lying to your face).

​@@keplermission There's no contradiction here: it's a coaxial driver (whether or not it really is time-coincident is doubtful) using a silk dome tweeter and reinforced paper cone mid-bass woofer. The two magnet plates have to be forced into each other by a machine compressing several tons, once in place forming continuous flux. I seem to remember reading the driver is made in China, but am not sure. What makes you think Andrew Jones would claim to have designed a driver if he hadn't? There are several videos online where he explains in person his thought process and what went into the design.

How did an amplifier review morph into a discussion of Andrew Jones? Geez. AJ has been designing speakers with coincident drivers for over 35 years, first with KEF, then TAD, then Pioneer, And now MoFi. He isn’t copying anyone.

@Steveguttenbergaudiophilliac1 SCAM alert

oh well, Made in USA sucks? ;-)

No tube manufacturer provides lifetime guarantee, it just doesn’t make commercial sense.

Thanks for watching Lee, but the thing is about your ears you have a more experienced set of ears now than you did a 1977. You can appreciate music in a deeper level now, so savor that.

You're on a roll!

Thanks Steve. Yep! (Acoustic Revive R-777 provides "wetness" ....😅)))

Thanks, it's a cool fantasy. But you're leaving out the logistics of how this gear gets here, setting it up, the costs of shipping heavy stuff back and forth? And locating the lender of the gear. A HUGE amount of work and the costs. That said, I do have a Hovland preamp made around 25 years ago that's awesome, and will compare it with a new preamp.

Good points; thanks for what you are already doing for the hobby. Too bad you aren’t in the Denver area. I had those monoblocks brought back to factory spec and would have dropped them by. At ~60 yrs they hold up well against my PS audio BHK 250. I find it amazing how good some vintage gear can be.

Nope

In the year 1977 Leak of England had launched their 3000 speaker series with a plastic stepped baffle and it was all, it was ALL about getting a design award, then there were the you know, people that would buy these and when I look at Andrew Jones MoFi speakers with that horrible diffraction-free ... plastic baffle, I don't like it, or the designer. I think it's about a design award and he's a self-seeking guy.

I was seeking more on the efficiency range of the speaker like the SP. Steve mentions high sensitivity and looks like to he favor speakers in the 98+ to benefit from the Sarah which is unfortunate but it is what it is.

@@labalo5 Unless you're listening quietly, such as late at night, and don't mind some compression of macro dynamics. I personally own several amps, and my 2.3 Watt Decware with its voltage regulator tubes is just perfect for late night listening, the reason I bought it in the first place, music emerging from a black background as if driven by battery power. It'll play loud enough with more speakers then I expected (meaning louder than I'm comfortable with), but compress macro dynamics with some, but the way the sound carries at low levels is quite unique, plus when one is using high-sensitivity speakers, there's no compromise at all. But again, using average sensitivity speakers, it's easy to come by a second amp to play at party level, even if it may not provide the same magic or communicate music at the same emotional level.

@@LeonFleisherFan that’s fair. I was just trying to get a gauge and what to expect. I have a Sarah on preorder as well. My speakers are claimed 94db sensitivity. My hope is that I will still experience uncompressed materials even if listening to 65db. Of course like Steve is saying the higher, the better. Perhaps, dual Sarahs will provide what I seek.

Looking at the website they are still working on orders from 9/2021. Closer to 2 years than 1. I bought a bunch of stuff over the last year. Had these been available within 3-6 months I likely would have bought one of their amps. Just too long of a wait for my sensibilities. I wish I had the patience.

@DaveSchulze Based on Audiophiliac reviews and an encouraging response by Steve to a comment I left, I have the 2.3WPC Decware Zen Triode and a pair of Zu Omen DW2s. It sounds amazing and can play more than loud enough in my small listening area at a distance of 7 or 8 feet.

@@SteveWille Nice. I’m running it a Rogue Cronus Magnum III and it’s pretty glorious but always wondered what a SET would sound like.

It’s an option. That’s how I ordered it.

Much more authentic this way. Just like 50's 60's DIY builds. They should give the option to build a kit, just like in the good old days. :-)

@@juanmillaruelo7647 I really wish there were good kits around. It seems to make sense for Decware but it would cost a lot of time in support I would imagine. Heathkit are making kits again, I'm hoping they start amps soon.

Yes Steve, I too am on page 1 for a Zen but really thinking about upgrading while I can. Would really appreciate your thoughts on whether it is worth the extra money.

Thanks, we have a new one posting today or tomorrow.

Turn around time for service is about 2 weeks.

Completely different beast. From Victor K. NA distributor Sunvalley/ELEKIT...""ELEKIT tube amp is not a traditional tube amp design and ELEKIT is changing the design model by model. The life span of each model is very short as Mr. Fujita is not an audiophile. His design is based on spec."" Know Decware is a traditional amp design, Point-To-Point wiring and with tube rectification. Old school with Old Tube World sound.

Thanks @joenovak6393 My question was submitted as both Steve and Herb Reichert absolutely loved the TU-8600S (or its slightly less impressive predecessor the 8600R). Herb thought the 8600S would be happy in the company of the best tube company makers in the world, and said you could buy a $20K amp or just build the 8600S for around $2K. Steve compared the 8600R to at least one of the Decware amps and was more impressed by the 8600R as I recall. Hoping Steve will address my question. I hear Herb also has a review forthcoming on another Elekit amp and hopefully may compare and contrast some of the amps at issue.

@@Cary_Grant to recap, Steve Guttenberg starting @ 5m35s said Sarah 300B does live in your room better than anything anywhere near it's price, goes on to say of course there are other amps that do things better but not at this price and not in this way. Elekit 8600 and 8900 with all upgrades could be considered at the low end of this price range, actually they're almost half the price. We have video of Steve G at Herb R's with the TU-8600 and I'd be surprised if Steve G has not listened to the Tu-8900 Herb R reviewed in July '23 Stereophile magazine, given that I'd say it's safe to infer that Steve thinks Sarah 300b is the better sounding amp, no, do tell?

@mpix8302 Based on your comment I am going down a bit of a rabbit hole here: The full production model Sarah amp price cannot be compared to the 8600S's price they way you propose as the 8600S is a kit. Looking at the parts to the Sarah, it would be fair to say a hypothetical Sarah kit would cost thousands of dollars less. Generally when reviewers talk about amps at certain price point or range they are typically talking about apples to apples products (for e.g., full production model amps to pull production model amps). It is hard to say what the price of the 8600S would or should be priced at if it was a full production model with all that entails. Herb essentially said the 8600R (not even the better 8600S) would fit in nicely in the $20K full production tube amp crowd (4 times the price of the Sarah with some upgrades). So it is pretty unclear which amp is boxing in which weight class. (Or is it?) My main point is that the 8600S made substantial improvements (especially with the optional upgrades) to the 8600R. Steve has never reviewed the 8600S. Unless a reviewer has directly compared two products, I would not presume to know what their opinion is. Hence my original question to Steve - how the Sarah compares with the 8600S. It really was that simple. (I know that they are constructed very differently, have different components, etc., but I would like Steve (and Herb's) thoughts on sound differences.

@@Cary_Grant Well it sounds like you answered your question. However I will say according to July '23 Stereophile Gramophone Dreams TU8900 review by Herb Reichert, Victor charges $375 to assemble the kit for the customer therefor my comparison would be Apples to Apples other than that Steve D does not offer Sarah 300B as a kit. Remember Steve D is direct to consumer. For those of us in North America Elekit goes thru VK music distributorship which in theory should cost more than direct from manufacture. If I'm reading Herb's Stereophile review of TU8900 correct I am under the impression Herb thinks even higher of all options TU8900 2A3/300B amp than the all options (except the limited availability Silver Lundahl output transformer option) TU8600 whatever letter iteration it is up to.

Watership Down?? 🎶😂🎶

Seriously? Steve's amps are famous for not having any hum, and I've taken mine to several audiophile acquaintances, meaning I've heard it in more than half a dozen systems, and it's dead quiet.

@@LeonFleisherFan as is my Torii MKV and my brother-in-law's MKIV.

Try shielded interconnects and power cables? Worked for my tube pre.

@@20CycleMonger Did all that....had no effect. Problem went away when I switched to a Shindo amp. And as I wrote, I did not have that issue with a cheapo Chinese tube amp...which BTW sounded pretty good for the money.

@@20CycleMonger I've often wondered if the preference in the U.S. for balanced cabling (common mode rejection) and shielded cables has to do with the use of 110VAC from the wall, domestic installation, building wiring, as well as, perhaps, above ground phone and power lines? Sonically, it's a tradeoff in that I have never found shielded connections to sound better where the shielding wasn't necessary, for this reason I'd always recommend trying both, as well as of course cable routing (e.g. low-level phono cabling or interconnects in parallel with power cables). The most common reason for hum may be residual DC on the AC from the wall, no amount of shielding won't remedy that (need a DC blocker, most of which negatively affect dynamics, so again, worth a try, but not universally recommended).

It was on loan and was returned to the company.

Sorry, I don't have Tannoys

Thanks for the reply back! I truly enjoy your podcasts, RU-vid content, and of course, your print work, when it was the only way to get the info/perspective you share with us. Thanks again! @@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac

Sorry, no.

@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac it's ok I will keep watching anyway 🤣

Thanks for watching, no, I have never reviewed the la scala. But I did an episode in February, the four part episode with a confession. I heard La Scala and was blown away by the sound. Check it out. But please understand, while they are big, they don't make big bass, very high-quality bass, but not Room shaky bass.

@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac very much appreciated . Thank you

Sorry no

You have no clue what you're talking about.

Sorry no, both were returned to the manufacturers. I can't keep most of the stuff around, space is the final frontier.

Thanks for watching, I said it was the best 300B amplifier I've heard. That doesn't make it the best amplifier ever, and sure that's why I did an extended test to offer a broader perspective. The Sarah is still a a terrific amplifier.

@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac Thanks for your reply. Fair enough - but I will say if you had only watched pt 2 of this review, you would be wondering what all the fuss is about.

I think you've asked this question before, and I've answered it. I'm not going to review that one.

It's a great match.

Depends on the speaker, of course. I've heard my 2.3 Watt Decware with half a dozen different speakers so far, and in several of them it's pretty much as you say (and it sounds beautiful regardless, merely macro dynamics suffer). Having said that I know people who own e.g. Altec Lansing Voice of the Theatre and such, where a two-digit power single-ended (such as a 211, those have maximum 19.7 Watts depending on the design) will have too much gain to comfortably set the volume.

@@LeonFleisherFan Appreciate your reply. However, not referencing volume. With exceptionally sensitive spks the option to increase volume would certainly be greatly increased. Nonetheless, are the dynamics equal to well designed 50 watt tube amps & 100 watt solidstate amps? The rounding of the edges of a 2 watt amp isn't going away.

@@saint6563 Typed an in-depth reply that got deleted, not sure why? The matter is on of transient attack not being the same as dynamics. Just as a lighter car has less inertia stopping and going, low-mass high-sensitivity speakers are faster-settling driven by a zero negative feedback flea watt amplifier than trying to control a high-mass, low-sensitivity speaker with an amp that uses negative feedback to exert high damping. Only servo control can remedy that to some effect, and then only for bass (long waves = sufficient time for servo to work). Dynamics isn't, to me as someone who builds loudspeakers, how loud a system can play, but the proportion in which a speaker is able to follow the signal (as in 0% to 99.9%), and how fast (the settling time is much more audible than the rise time). It needs to be able to follow the signal without macro-dynamic compression, which in turn affects micro dynamics to become inaudible. As a system, a zero negative feedback driven lightweight, high mechanical Q (low-damping) driver sounds faster. There's no way high electrical damping is ever going to make something jump from standstill to full signal and stop in dime that has higher moving mass. The short answer to your question is: if you own that type of speaker, and I'm not being judgemental as I have as much experience with low sensitivity as horns and dipole/open baffle), then it's not just that one needs wattage to make them "behave", but damping factor - the "rounding off" you hear isn't as much caused by the output transformer (it's not the tube themselves that keep a tube amp from being able to reproduce square waves), but the combination. It's as with sports cars: want to make them accelerate faster and stop and turn on a dime, take out weight, as there's a limit to how much more horsepower it might have, or how much the brakes can be improved.

@@saint6563 I forgot to address your question: a well-designed 50 Watt tube amp (e.g. the Amplifon SET42 Special Edition with 42 Watts out of a pair of GM70, which are basically the end-all version of the American jumbo tube lineage going from 211 to 845 and 805), will drive almost anything ("almost" referring to sudden impedance and/or electrical phase dips in poorly designed passive speakers, something like an SET140 from that brand, no business affiliation, by the way, will in fact drive pretty much any speaker at 140 Watts from 833 tubes). The attribute "well-designed" alluding not least to the quality of output transformers, which become disproportionally more expensive at high wattage, bandwidth and isolation, no financial shortcuts available there (that's why medium to high-wattage and stable SET amps are such beasts, virtually all power supply and output transformers). In contrast, 100 Watts in a solid state amplifier are no big deal in the modern world, it's not even an indication of quality. I'm waiting for the day when a mobile phone is going to output that much wattage and still not be able to drive a decent pair of headphones.

@@LeonFleisherFan That's why I specifically stated "well designed" for both tube & solidstate amps. Not talking about a $250 100 watt 5 channel receiver. Enjoy.

Upscale audio have great tubes.

@Steveguttenbergaudiophilliac1 I did?

For real?

Too bad it’s not the real audiophiliac

Indeed this one is. Some of the Decware amps are technically speaking power amplifiers with input attenuation, so depending on the source component, may profit from using a preamp. This one really is a full-blown integrated.

Because it's interesting, that's the reason for all of my videos. At least I hope that's the reason people watch them!

True. Having said that, Decware has been around for 27-28 years now, and they're not going to run out of orders any time soon. In addition to that, trouble-shooting tube amps isn't exactly rocket science, and it's all point-to-point wiring, no circuit boards.