BTW bass boost is intended for when you don’t have the cab coupled to the floor. In other words its raised off the floor on a stand that minimizes the cabinet vibrations transferring to the floor. It not to get a “big low end”.
Watched the video for a second time this morning. Did not catch the very end no sound part the first time around. Love when that happens around 2AM and I can't figure out the issue (only to realize something basic is not plugged in). Good stuff Michael.
Guilty of running cab emulations into real cabs for the longest time. Once I figured out what I was doing wrong... night and day. Great video as always!
Man, never played a Creamback in my life, but the tone at 8:48 sounded killer IMO. Thanks for always sharing the coolest toys ! Love my AmpSmasher shirt as well, wear it all the time!
I just recently purchased the F12-200X and I am extremely happy with it. You can not come out of a real guitar speaker on the Kemper and expect to jump on the F12-X200 with those same EQ settings, its never gonna work, tweaking to the speaker being used is a must. When it doesn't sound good its not the F12-X200 speaker, its the speaker or IR on the profile being used, change it to your liking. I have changed profiles I never liked into something I do by changing the CAB or IR on the original profile, thats the great thing about FRFR speakers...CAB and IR options which makes a huge difference in bad profiles or ones you are not happy with. I do agree with you though, the Kemper does sound great going right into a real cabinet, but I am defiantly digging the what the FRFR offers. No plans on the Kone as I really like the F12-X200 on the power Kemper and a Line 6 Pod Go. I cant see the Kone being any better.
I love the F12-200X speakers as well....I put them in a stereo 2x12 cabinet to use with my Axe FX.....I'm Wondering how the F12-200X would sound with the Speaker imprints(treating them like the Kemper Kone) would the behave similarly...the world may never know Mr. Owl.
I've tried 2 setups with my kemper playing live. Mine is unpowered as well and have sent the kemper into my powerstation into a 2x12 cab with a pair of scumback H75's with the cab sim turned off and it sounds incredible. I've also gigged with a mako amplification 1x12 cab with an EVM12L classic with cab sim left on and it sounds pretty good too but just going to regular good guitar speakers with cab sim off sounds and moves air JUST right. My brain tells me "that's a ripping amp behind me" but with the cab sim on and the 12L, or even bypassing the power station and sending to a decent FRFR monitor (QSC K12) behind me, my brain says "that's a digital amp".
There is an issue in this setup. The speaker emulations include also the mic used to create it, probably an sm57. So when you use speaker model into a flat speaker and into a hardware mic, you get x2 microphone imprint. Software + hardware mic sm57 in your case. There is simply no way to emulate a speaker without using an additional mic to measure it in the first place. The mic you absolutely dont need in the chain.
The speaker models don’t necessarily have a mic imprint. There are other ways they could have achieved a speaker model. Running a studio profile into a full range speaker definitely has a mic imprint.
@@BigHairyGuitars Sorry, but it's simply impossible. You have to measure a speaker somehow, and no matter how you do it that will affect the result. Even if you use measurement mics in unechoic rooms. If you just simply think about placement. V30, and Creamback sound different with sm57 placed at the edge of dust cap, same spot. And again totally different at center. How are you going to translate those differences to your hardware speaker. Off axis response? It will have the hardware characteristics in the end no matter what. You can really test it. The moment you start moving the mic it will fall apart. Thanks for the video, it is very informative anyways.
@@matijatatomirovic3351 I can't speak for the Kemper Kone per se, but the Line 6 Powercab does something very similar with speaker emulations, and is *specifically* designed to produce the sound of a un-mic'd speaker in either a 1x12 or 2x12 cabinet (depending on the Powercab model you have). To my ears, they've been pretty successful at delivering that, but your mileage may vary of course! From the Powercab manual: Speaker Models vs Cabinet Modeling A Speaker Model is our proprietary method of taking a known, flat and neutral guitar cabinet and through signal processing, we virtually "install" a different speaker into it. Each speaker model is intended to sound like wiring up your cabinet with that guitar speaker. You might say "But wait... isn't that the same thing as cabinet model?" No! A cabinet model is a speaker cabinet that has a microphone placed over one or more of its speakers, which is then typically run through a mic preamp and other post processing-similar to placing a mic on a cab in the studio, which is then piped into the studio monitors or headphones (as in the following illustration). Instead, a speaker model takes an existing speaker, resonating in a cabinet, and only changes its frequency response to match that of a different speaker. The result is, when standing in front, it still behaves like a traditional guitar amp, just with a different speaker. For the most authentic experience, Powercab is designed to sound like a high-powered cabinet of the same size (1x12 or 2x12) rather than attempting to emulate the sound of a larger (4x12) cabinet through a microphone and studio preamp.
@@foxmeisteruk in this case i absolutely agree. Basically they say that the speaker emulations will sound accurate in the room, stage etc. This could be true with Kemper one. However once you stick a mic in front of them, it just isn't possible. Because emulation can't emulate different positions physically on the speaker. Not saying it will sound bad, but it has to do with physical properties. Not to mention speaker breakup. How do you do that? I have tried, doesn't work, for me at least.
@@matijatatomirovic3351 I'm unsure as to why the mic is still part of this conversation. With the Kemper Kone, *if* what you are getting using the speaker imprints is effectively the same as having a real speaker of that type in the cabinet, you could mic up the cabinet in exactly the same way as you could the same cabinet containing the real speaker and achieve comparable results. I've emphasised "if" in that statement, because I don't know if Kemper have actually managed to achieve it as I've never heard one. What I can say is that, to my ears at least, the Powercab has somewhat achieved this goal. W.r.t to speaker cone breakup, I doubt that the Kemper Kone imprints or the Line 6 Powercab could truly achieve this because breakup would presumably be dependent on the physical speaker, and not the emulated one.
I was reading on the kemper website and it mentions that it can be used with a "solid state" amplifier. Is it better to use a solid state than a tube amp? is there any reason not to use a tube amp with Kemper Kone? I ask because I see you're using a tube amp and it sounds great!
Hello at the expense of sounding absolutely foolish all of these modeling amps I've stayed away from because I just don't understand what is the difference between a camper and an ax 3 .. I've been told the camper is a cloning machine and the ax is a modeler which is better or is there such a thing could you clear up the differences much appreciate your channel one of my all-time favorites thank you
Thanks. I believe that my profiles are the best out there. After watching interviews with Chris Kemper, I think they made it for people who just want to play 'in the room'. If you're gonna play live, you should still send your signal direct to the board with main outs. But you can monitor through the KONE. Not a bad option.
I thought the first cab with the regular Lynchback sounded better than any of the other combinations. I've tried out the new imprints with a few cabs and speakers as well as my DXR10 monitors. I like the imprints better on cleanish profiles and not so much with higher gain profiles as compared to my standard rig which is using full profiles through 2 DXR10 monitors but it does give you some more options.
You’re correct. Aha I knew it. I play thru a 1x12 regular guitar cab. Cab sims off sounds just fine. But this and the helix both need a real overdrive or distortion pedal in front for feel. I prefer my Friedman SB limited and a real pedal. No pedalboard. Don’t use modulation etc. the helix however can take that 1x12 cabinet on so can the FYI do u remember the atomic amplifier? cabs on you don’t keep the cabs off or it sounds bad. Keep them on sounds great. Anyway. At the end of the day I love my tube amps and a nice spongey or bouncy feeling pedal. Same goes for amps. No stiff amps or stiff pedals. And that’s why I can’t move over 100% to the modelers, profilers. This just came up sorry late to the game Mike. Just had like a nightmare for some reason of HP. Weird. 🤪 see if I had the kone I’m going to use exactly what I have, the cream back speaker.
DANGER!!! be very careful running an 8 ohm tube amplifier into a 4 ohm speaker load, you can fry the output transformer in your Fryette!!! It's ok to do that with a transistor power amp but not tube amp. You can use a 16 ohm speaker with 8 ohm amp but not the other way around... ask Dave Friedman if you don't trust what I'm saying!
So if you are in performance mode playing a clean part with what originally had an American speaker cab profile and then you move to another profile to play solo which originally had a British style speaker emulation, isn't FRFR more practical? That's a real question. I am wondering how people get around this.
Hi Michael, what’s your thoughts on mic’ing to FOH/PA with the Kone? Whilst I appreciate some of the tone is lost via the mic, Kemper don’t recommend it? But surely all the video demos of the Kone are mic’d - so what’s the difference? Would be good if we could have IRs to match the Kone imprints to use via main outs/FOH, but at the moment I don’t think they’re free or available as standard.
Arghh this all makes my head spin haha frfr's cabs, cab sim on off, speaker imprints not working with cab sim on etc etc.. just joined a band, and i am just starting to learn about gear i need, and there is just so much😂 i want the kemper stage, but ofc it doesnt have a pedal, and it cannot power an amp, and there seem to always be a downside to everything i look at. Then there is frfr vs cab vs studio monitors vs pa (or is pa studio monitors?🥴) Why is there not a definite answere to what is the absolute best? I just want a poweted kemper stage with built in pedal and the most realistic sounding amp, amd not having to compromise, or having to spend tens of hours online searching everywhere for information, only to find out that everyones oppinions are different😂 I have an offer to buy the powered kemperhead, unpowered kemper kabinet, kemper remote with 2 pedals attached for 2700$ which is a good deal, but still insane expensive. Ouff🥵
It's not such a relaxed ordeal for me when I forget the plug my Dirty Shirley amp into a cab, I'm usually freaking out hoping I didn't burn up a Transformer or fry tubes...... I've only done it for a couple seconds though because that's the first thing I check if there's no sound, still it makes your heart drop when you see your expensive amp is on and you realize it's not plugged into a cab!
I hear yeah! I’ve done it SO many time though at high volumes! I have an extensive routing system behind my rack so when I start messing with things, wires get crossed! I’ve only had 1 catastrophe so far.
@@BigHairyGuitarsI’m sure you would have but I’m actually surprised that you didn’t have one 😊since you have such a great gear collection ! I’m currently trying to find the best path to use IR’s in the most realistic and true way . all of the reactive load boxes have there own effect on the actual profile , and so are most available IR’s just created at one unknown setting without taking into consideration the interaction between speaker and transformer . In my opinion you should record your own IR at the same volume setting that you want to later use in the load box and kill. But even then your load box will be a factor that influences the sound quite a lot. Did you experiment with this already?
@@Johnsormani Maaaaaan, IR's are really tricky. I've found that those really logical ideas, like the one you're presenting, rarely pan out in the IR world. For instance, I tried capturing IR's of Power Amps with the idea to run a preamp into a Power Amp IR, then a Cab IR. Sounded terrible. Don't know why. Same goes for volume. When I make IR's, I'll make 5-10 at a time, at varying loudness, and varying levels going into the power amp. Running a full frequency sweep just interacts with a speaker and cab and room differently than a guitar. So, After I make those IR's I have to go through and see what most closely represents the actual cab sound. It's rarely consistent. Sometimes loud is great. Sometimes quiet is better. 🤷♂
@@BigHairyGuitars thanks for the tips Michael . Aiken amps has a nice article on how a reactive load is designed and that shows exactly what you are saying here. You can only get an approximate behavior with even the best reactive IR , since it’s only a close snapshot of an unknown speaker in that particular setting . So your idea to just compare them and tweak them is probably the best way in the end. That will probably even work with a simple load box.
Hi Michael , doesn’t Kemper come with a built in power amp? What if you use it instead of power stage? How much different will it sound? Will it be better or worse than the Power Stage? Thanks.
Not all Kempers have the built in power amp. I have a Kemper myself...its the unpowered version. Just like Michael's. At :50 into the video he shows you the back of his Kemper. You will notice the back of the Kemper has an open space towards the top. If he had the built in power amp.... that space would be filled in with the power amp module. FYI ... that power amp module is a mono solid state amp. I don't want or need Kemper's mono amp. I use a stereo amp because I am running my Kemper's FX in stereo....
I’ve been a fan of tube amps for over 20 years. Love them. The kemper is the only thing I’ve heard that I’d put against them. I’ve had the pod, helix, and axe fx also. The kempers just have a magic and authenticity to them. Grain of salt because I’ve not actually played one. But I’ve seen a LOT of demos.
Love your videos Mike. But please don't include sound samples of the wrong way to do things, lol. Especially in a video that supposed to help us compare different tones. Confusing for the ears.
The marketing is all wrong there. He says driven by the kemper DSP (Christoph Kemper) which is a bunch of bullshit. The reason for that, is the kemper doesn't "drive" anything on the speaker. Older hi fi companies had dsp controlling the movement of the magnet on the speakers to alter what they wanted out of the speaker. You could get incredible bass out of a velodyne subwoofer. What he does (kemper) is ordering a speaker from celestion as he wants it and then tailoring the kemper outboard eq to the characteristics of that speaker. It's not clever, it's not something new and it's not revolutionary. And it can be good sounding. Just fucking marketing man...
Yes, the "DSP driven" is super marketing hype. When I bought it, I was looking to see if the speaker was powered, or had a DSP chip in it! That's how much their marketing spun it. Basically the Kone is a base level canvas for them to create tone upon. Like you said. BUT, it makes sense that they would do this for their product. They just sprinkled a dash of snake oil into the marketing for sure.
@@bighairyprofiles4723 I would like to know if you liked it "more" than the FRFR celestion. The kone doesn't have a tweeter or another sort of smaller cone based coaxial treble enhancing (long description!) construction built in doesn't it? I had, about 12 years ago, a tech21 power engine and that fucker had a celestion seventy/80. Which is one of the well, not well "received" guitar oriented speakers. However it was relatively flat and had ...treble (vs say a vintage 30 etc) but I thought I'd hook up the pod XT that I had in DI mode and speaker sim on and that it would sound great, and as it should, pretty much like running it into a PA sort of speaker with guitar open back cab construction. Well it sounded terrible lol; So I chose combo power amp mode and treated like a flat power amp into a flat-ish guitar speaker and it was ok to good. Then for some reason, I turned the speaker "sims" on. To my surprise the "sims" worked, only as eq filters to approximate the speaker character of a V30, greenback etc. The mic sim didn't work on this configuration. Change the 4 pod mic sims did not do anything. If you ever get your hands on a power engine 60 just use it that way and compare it to todays standard FRFR style cabinets etc. To me it sounded great! I actually do that with my 4x12 as well, even today. Although the jensens in that (brunetti custom order) are definitely hi fi-ish and clean sounding vs a V30 for example as well. It's a great day to be a guitarist. Great job on the videos. I prefered the friedman cab with the kemper running into the fryette! Half of that sound is the fryette and the speaker magnet reacting though,..affects the feel the depth and pressence knobs etc. For me running a digital preamp into a lightweight power amp into a cab like this IS the ultimate in versatility. And I'd be obliged if you miced it vs a DI version of this setup etc and see what you prefer. I have a small theory about why sometimes kemper etc stuff seem to vanish into a mix and come back vs a tube amp miced something that amazing guest soundman for alice in chains (I am forgetting the name...) also pointed out on tone talk.
You could say the same thing about modeling guitar amplifiers. It isn't new. It's not revolutionary and it's not clever. Doing it right is where the clever comes in. Attention to the little details. The powered Kemper and Kemper Kabinet were done right. The Kemper amps were done right. It really takes an individual like Kemper with a vision to get results like this. Most bigger companies will get quality just good enough for profits and move on. The average user won't hear the difference. I think Kemper is going for a truly perfect product. I'm extremely impressed. I purchased a Line 6 Helix LT at the same time as a Kemper Stage to A/B compare. I did a jam session with several buddies to get additional opinions. We all took turns playing both units. The Helix was prettier and had more options. The helix sounded really good for sure. However for the basic real amp sound I was going for, everyone in the room agreed it was more "real". I sold the Helix (I still use the helix plug in though for diversity). I then went on to try a powered Kemper through a real cabinet with the cabinet simulation off comparing that to the stage running into a FRFR made by Headrush. I sold the Stage. The FRFR sounded good but it sounded more like a guitar recording than the real cabinet. Playing through a real cabinet makes the Kemper sound like a real tube amp. Last week I compared the Powered Kemper driving a Kemper Kabinet to the Powered Kemper driving my favorite 2x12" vintage cab filled with a celestion vintage 30 and a celestion G12H30. They both sounded great. I didn't find the Kabinet to be artificial in any way and found I could find a tone and tweak it to my liking better than my 2x12 cabinet. It is more versatile without the drawback of it not being as good as the real thing. It is as good as the real thing. It is DSP driven but just in a different stage of the circuit path. Placing the DSP in a head unit people already have is awesome. Kemper could have placed the DSP in a speaker which would have required another power cord and charged double but they found a way to utilize the available horse power. The kone prices are pretty good for sure. I also don't see the prices of the kabinet to be unreasonable for a 12", 25lb cab. I've been playing the Kabinet at loud volumes and I'm not hearing any buzzing. Great value. I just bought a second one.
@@gregkonji I understand what you are saying and it is mainly what works for you, however, what am I refering to is misinformation. Or rather, presenting something vague which is not importan, has been done before in order to show innovation and claim superiority. That is what rubs me off, such tactics were also employed by his competition, which is fractal with their hyped IR on the second gen which was nothing short of a bump in the low end and shortening of the IR or something like that. Bumping the region close to 120 hz usually wakes up the sound a bit and gives energy, it also makes any guitar speaker work more, thus producing negative feedback and also makes the amp work a bit harder and thus changing the sound yet again etc. Anyway on to the kemper phrase driven by DSP, ANY and I mean any modeller that sends a preamp signal to a power amp which said power amp is unknown to the modeller and there is not real speaker modelling (Impulse response frequency compensation) but rather "live eq curves" can say the same thing about the kemper/cone. So in essence a big fuck you to christoph kemper from me, lol because I do not appreciate treating the world/clientelle like hyped marketing fanboy derivative persons. That said, is it a good product that has become better by adding the kone etc to its arsenal. Yes, one of the best if not best in its domain. Bear in mind though, that I would only use a modeller like the kemper if only variety, effects, portability and consistency where of much higher importance. Adding a whole speaker cabinet with one or more kones, takes away from all of that! In fact if I have to carry a power amp and cabinet, why don't I take my amp as well and enjoy?!!! Let alone the fact that most of the time it IS the power amp/guitar speaker interaction which delivers the magic. And as far as top story goes, as a fan and not a player, I go to a certain live stage for heavy guitar sounds, meaning I like heavy metal and go to see those shows. International bands come and go. Up until now I've seen some setups, from live amps to axe-fx feeding cabinets, axe-fx DI, kemper DI etc. The most crystal clear sound of all was the kemper. But it was not the best, up until now. The live amps had the most problems though players seem to enjoy lol, but the king of all, which was with the band annihilator delivered the BEST LIVE SOUND I've ever heard in any live period for guitar. So I rushed to the sound guy, which was a girl, lol to ask what did they use, and it was all line 6 helix. I was very surprised because I have played and have the plugin etc and usually I am mehhh. I don't really like playing the kemper vs my amps but I like it more than the helix. Anyway...I asked about additional eq, compression...something to show what made it magical. Nothing. A slight bump 1-2 dbs to the guitars with a parametric eq to 2,7 khz aproximately for more cut. I cannot get THAT sound out of my head. I expected kemper, axe-fx...it was line6. The posibilities are endless...A blues guy may only admit playing the kemper live, modern prog guys usually want the axe-fx (it is much more capable fx wise) etc...They all are very good. I prefer my amps!
@@jimlund4845It really comes down to frequency and what the ear can hear. The f12 pretty much covers that and it also covers the wattage (200) as well. I would bet the farm my ear couldn't hear any difference at all. "Speaker Imprint Technology" lol..sounds like marketing speak (no pun intended) too me.
@@jimlund4845 Cool. I build custom powered 112 cabs for the modelers and use those for the grfr thing. I agree they (frfr speakers in general) are ALL dependent on IR's used.
