Iron will is a favorite of mine. I really think it’s versatility does make it OP, but I do think something we are forgetting is IW’s massive funny potential. I’ve seen drillers come back from the dead just to drop a c4 on the teammate reviving me.
On a hardcore team that focuses on completing the mission a have no nonsense attitude that driller is getting kicked out immediately, but on a more lax team and as long it happens on a blue moon plus also expected that driller to be a bit of a troll it'll be fine
@@zerovsgaming6729 deep rock galactic is fun because of its lax attitude. As much as i dont want to gatekeep if your playing a "harcore, no nonsense" team. Your playing the game wrong
@@sirkelendor5429 My reply is making a point what would happen to the Driller player if they nuked their entire team with one C4, most of the lobbies I have joined playing DRG are lax and I enjoyed that, also for a fact that I once nuked my entire team as Driller since we were all repairing the same Mini Mule, we didn't fail the mission as someone had Iron Will, but it was pretty funny. I don't like playing in teams who are in a hardcore no nonsense atmosphere since I got kicked out mid-game for not communicating while playing as Engineer.
@@butlazgazempropan-butan11k87i agree, we need perk overhaul next because there is this passive perk called "it's a bug thing" which completely useles... Like why have that perk when u can use your pickaxe to kill lootbugs? And if they are on the ceiling then u gotta shoot it and the perk can't kill them since its a 5 meter range... My idea is to make the perk better is "lootbugs drop 10 - 40% of more loot when killed", that way the perk makes it better to get good amounts of gold and nitra from them to make the perk actually useful
Some of the meme perks should be redone as buff beers imo. It's a bug thing could easily fit there, and stuff like strong arm could be put in the Backbreaker Stout, etc. Then this paves the way for more stronger perks to be introduced without bloating the current pool. Build variety outside of perks is amazing, definitely feels like they need to be brought up to the rest of the game's standards in terms of balance/relevance.
The problem with this is removing something, I doubt GSG can compensate for all removed perks AND give us more so we have more use for perk points, otherwise they would have been definitely able to create a bunch of perks for season 4. Also bug thing beer would be a bit controversial, with players paying for it but lootbug lovers not drinking it and making them angry
I feel this way about dash too tbh, I think its even more valuable than IW, its essentially a get out of jail free card every 25 seconds, makes bad positioning way less punishing, I feel like im throwing when im not running both of these perks
@@SimonWoodburyForget unstoppable is only useful if you are being slowed by something. Dash is always useful no matter what since it let's you perform risky jumps, runaway from enemies, move quicker to the next objective or remove slowdowns all together
@@SimonWoodburyForget you rarely are slowed by anything tho and even if you are wouldn't it be better to remove the slow altogether? Yes Unstoppable applies for 100% of the slow duration but Dash literally get rids of it. "Jumping cliff is only occasionally useful as a method of escape" I meant traversing in general like when you see some nitra but there is big hole between you and it. "remember that escaping is usually the bad choice" wow this is certainly a take, maybe on lower hazards yes but on higher or even modded it's a really good choice and sometimes the best. "unstoppable allows you just enough leverage to escape being trapped at all times" not really tho if bugs are coming for you from all sides Unstoppable won't do anything. if you are playing by minimizing risk then you don't want to be slowed by anything in the first place so Unstoppable won't do anything for you and Dash will help you with achieving that by dashing away from slashers, web spitters before they can slow you or jumping above slowing goo before. If you take Unstoppable you take it to mitigate something that can happen while with dash that thing won't happen in the first place and in addition to that you still can use it for utility like making long jumps or getting everywhere quicker
Every perk needs a total rework. I main engi, and my build is a very particular "game plays itself" build. I use the autolock rifle, gemini turrets, swarmer grenades, repellant platforms, electric bullets three revives Bosco, and Steeve. Steeve is great. Steeve's job is to take agro. The damage doesn't matter, what matters is Steeve draws attention off me. Glyphids seem to prioritize attacking Steeve over me. With this setup, I can solo missions I otherwise just couldn't. I have multiple teammates that act a specific way reliably every single time, and I just don't bring Iron Will. Bosco has my revives, after all, and solo gaming is less harsh than 4 player coop gaming, where part of the balance has been thrown out because players can revive each other an unlimited number of times. But the issue is Steeve can't handle the highest tier of gameplay, even with a 5x damage boost, because that damage boost is all Steeve gets. Further, I often find myself without a Steeve because slasher and guard grunts are rarer spawns, and when they spawn the rest of my automated defense force prioritizes _them_ for some reason. Beastmaster needs a rework. First off, toss regular grunts out of the mix. No one picks them except on accident because there are twelve grunts and one guard and the grunts got in the way of grabbing the guard. Next, as long as you don't have a Steeve, every grunt swarm should have a guard and slasher in them, guaranteed. Third, if you have beastmaster, slashers and grunts should be the lowest priority target for automatic defenses. Fourth, either boost armor, boost health, or grant regen. Steeve needs survivability so that he's at least somewhat viable on higher hazard levels. Personally, I would prefer boosted armor. I'd even take a nerf on damage from 500% to 250% for better armor values. Finally, Steeve has issues with getting caught on geometry that Molly could fit through that I just don't understand, so give steeve a recall. If Steeve can't find a path to you, just discretely teleport him nearby so that I can continue making active use of the perk. My dream buff would be to either add one of the specialist glyphids that are about grunt sized to the list of available choices, or to add a limited revive mechanic, with either one extra life or a timer, so that if Steeve goes down and he's reachable by a teammate, you can get him back up.
Would you believe me if I said Iron Will used to have infinite uses per mission all the way back in Early Access? It's was fucking nuts, what a silly perk.
I've always found that if an option is so valuable that everyone takes it, the best move is often not to nerf it, but simply make it part of the standard kit in some way. Maybe in a less potent, but still valuable form. Make it no longer a perk and thus give everyone that slot back to make choices with. This might contribute to power creep, but that never really bothers me, especially in a non-competitive game, and can usually be combated with other small tweaks.
My solution: buff all perks to make them as powerful as iron will The most popular voice line in this game is “A dwarf never dies” which is exactly what iron will does, so it shouldn’t be nerfed at all
I actually run strong arm a lot of the time. I like it for point extraction. My main thought on how to 'fix' iron will is to make a basic version of IW available to everyone, without needing a perk slot. The perk would then only provide an extra activation(and maybe more time). Still powerful, but no longer a 'must bring'.
ive tried bringing strong arm and the other one for heavy carrying for the aquarqs and to carry dotty's head back, instead of just using thorns born ready and vampire for everything but i also rarely play above haz3 so it isnt very impactful
I don't think Iron Will is as good as Dash or Field Medic. You get one. In total, Iron Will can save your team four times if used optimally. but that is ALL it does. It has no added benefit outside of the second chance. And this is assuming everyone goes down at the same time, in a team with good players a lot of time you will never use Iron Will, even if you go down a lot. Dash saves me way more than that every run, and on top of that, it makes platforming and mobility in general better. It also hard counters slows, one of the most dangerous things in the game. Field Medic gets one use of it's active and also passively increases the revive time and so acts a lot like Iron Will. tldr Iron Will is kind of a noob trap. It is the third strongest perk in the game. It absolutely can save a run, but isn't nearly as strong as you argue. For anyone who wants the real best perk setup, it is Dash and Field Medic 90% of the time.
@@marmotbro4673 I still argue that being dead is a MASSIVE downside and being not dead is the most valuable thing. You don’t get a redo if you mess up a dash or can’t revive someone too far away
@@carlosgutierrez3918 You are right, being not dead is the goal. You do not need a redo if you never get dead in the first place. Dash prevents you from being dead, and the best part is you can use dash an infinite number of times in a match, not just once. On top of it being able to dodge anything, it has utility outside that. Sure, it is harder to use than Iron Will. But it is more valuable. Field medic lets you go for risky revives that you could never do without it, preventing everyone from being dead at once. Iron Will should only be used as a last resort, but Field Medic helps you avoid the point of no return.
If you are good enough to never need Iron Will you are too good for the hazard level in the first place honestly, so you can more or less choose whatever. At higher hazard levels, assuming you are evenly matched for it, during a swarm one person can go down during a swarn and it can lead to a chain reaction where less and less people fight the swarm and you eventually. With Iron Will you can immediately get back up on your feet, letting teammate not spend time reviving you and focus on the swarm instead. Best Iron Wills prevent team downs and get momentum back rather than being a last crutch, 2 people is better than 1 after all. This matters more the higher the hazard level is because you have less time to try and go for a revive. Dash+Iron Will is then considered the meta loadout for all except Scout, where Field Medic is definitely really powerful and you can get rid of Dash for it since Scout does not need the mobility as much.
I hope more people see and understand this. IW is certainly strong, but it's only useful when you're losing and doesn't actually stop you from getting there in the first place like other perks may.
@@thatoneawkwardguy1150 its considered to be the best perk in game by the best players in the game. If field medic is better then why everyone playing haz 6x2 uses ironwill and not field medic?
At this point, a nerf just means removing the perk altogether. It used to not have a use limit. If anything I could see them keeping it from resetting on Deep Dives. But I'm all for the perks that aren't used much, getting touched up in some way. Dash would also be a part of this conversation
I think the other active perks could just use a buff. To bring them closer to IW and get better diversity. You are right, you got 1 active perk due to the sheer power of IW
I would personally argue that instead of nerfing Iron Will, they should buff the under-performing perks until Iron Will has serious competition. (A bunch of edits for just re-adjusting my wording)
I'm not sure about the "no-self heal when Iron Willing" route as a solution, since that would mean you always have to run field medic with it in a team setting. The easiest way to bring it more in line would probably be to just have it auto trigger on your first down; that way it loses its status as a mission saver that makes it so powerful. The safest option would be to just make iron will standard once it's unlocked and have 2 other active perks to pick freely. That said, I do run it on most of my builds (paired with vampire); perhaps with the exclusion of a few scout builds where I'll rely on mobility to stay alive (and instead go for hoverboots for platformless mining on high ores, and enhanced senses to keep myself from getting grabbed by a cave leech when in an inconvenient position away from the rest of the team)
with the offensive buffs iron will provides, I think it was meant to be used to shoot down bugs for as long as you can stand. Most of the time it's cool when you have a freedom of choosing your actions, but allowing you to revive the team while last standing is so powerful it makes it the only option. I think the way to go would be to disallow revival and self healing while last standing, and instead increasing the duration of invincibility. This way you get a dwarf who can fight alongside you through a wave without needing to revive him until later.
The red passives perks with sprint and the throwing one needs buffs badly. The red sprint perk needs permanent (small) passiv movementspeed (5-10%) and after 3secs it goes up to 20- 25%. The throwing one needs extra pickaxe dmg on top to its over stuff - how much dmg? Dont know tbh, maybe enough that you need a swing less to kill grunts.
@@churchseraphim1380 could do, tho ... thing is that the higher you go difficulty wise, the more combat support perks you see/ need and less those who give you quality of life stuff. Thats why i thought of pickaxe damage to finish off random grunts etc. to preserve ammo/ go with vampire or whatever. Right now born ready and resupplier shine above all else. Vampire, thorns or something else combat related usually fills slot 3. And there is no reason not to use combat related perks. Players who aren't as good use them to survive and high end players min max their build aswell.
@@deadlift9360 You're not wrong, tbh I think we would need a perk rework. There's basically no point to take anything that's not Dash, Iron Will, Resupplier, Born Ready which gives you basically 1 passive perk slot of your choosing. Lots of people use thorns, I use unstoppable because it gives you slowdown resistance to slasher attacks. I feel like a complete rework would need to be in order. Maybe you have a certain amount of perk points and different passive/active perks cost more/less. IE Strong Arm costs 1 perk point, Resupplier costs 3, born ready costs 3, etc. maybe with that system, taking Iron will uses all your active perk points but taking something like Field Medic still leaves enough to take Dash as well. Idk I'm spitballing. I kinda feel like regardless there will still be a meta
I believe touching Iron will via nerfing or buffing would ultimately be counter productive because unless you made the perk effectively useless, people would still use it to gain a possible team save. A simple and effective solution to this would be simply incorporate the perk as a core mechanic, all dwarves can get back up one time per mission, this would free up space and literally change nothing sense everyone already uses it. In hindsight this is something you'd think would already be a core mechanic.
Yeah this is kinda the problem with a free life system in any game like this. It's always too powerful, or you're in a situation you'd never need it. Your suggestion would be a great option though.
There is another option I can think of. The most powerful thing to do during last stand is finding ways to heal yourself and your team. I have never seen the weapon reload and pickaxe power buffs during last stand come into play. I think the perk was meant to make you a commando shooting down bugs despite mortal wounds, but they didn't want to restrict creative uses, and those uses turned out to be massively more powerful than intended. My suggestion would be to remove the ability to receive healing or revive teammates during last stand, then the duration could even be buffed. It would be used when the rest of your team is alive, but in need of a hero tanking all the bugs with their body and fighting without fear.
@@arcturuslight_ I disagree on that since if you cannot recieve healing then you would only ever want to use it when someone else is alive, which would generally result in players using it only to maybe tank a few hits (debatable effectiveness in most chaotic situations since you didn't mention it gaining a taunt effect) or when they're far away from their team to be able to run closer so that they can die at their feet to be rezed. For a one time thing in a mission that's puts it below Berserker (only thing it would have over the former is the invincibility, but that's offset by death). If they were to make a change like your suggestion then I'd change it slightly to that you gain health, but only from taking action during the fight. Perhaps a small amout of health from killing enemies, but you still take damage so if you don't play carefully then you could still end up dead afterwards when the invincibility ends. Even my suggestion isn't going to really fix it, but it would make it better than just a stranger berserker with little to no use cases.
@@Kio_Kurashi I think it should last maybe 10 to 15 seconds, and you start with full health then it slowly drains over the duration very fast, but as you deal damage or kill it heals you and if you survive the full duration you get revived, probably more fun this way too
I still believe that Beast Master should've get an overhaul as a perk. For example: when you make steeve, you get a buff when standing near him, like a movement speed, less potency to stun etc. and that steeve itself should've been tougher. But hey that's just my theory
There is a mod that tries to buff the perk (Steeve Army). All it does is let you have 3 steeves with a 100s cooldown. It still isn't that noticeable since by the time you have a 3rd steeve, the first and usually second are already dead. But it's fun when you have 3 gliphid guards just standing around you like your personal body guards.
@@superswagturbo8183 Lol even half a point of health would make it broken. (you can animation cancel pet steeve literally like 4 times a second lol.)
horrible take for a beast master rework since it forces you to stand next to Steeve making it so Steeve gives you buffs when you stand near him focuses a lot more attention to keeping it alive just so you can negate some status effects
Vapire Sweet tooth Resupplier Dash Iron will That's the only combo you need on any build or character. It work's in both solo and team play and synergizes with itself so well that even changing one perk make's the whole build feel weird. Perk's need a rework, idk what or how. They just do.
Im not trying to say you're wrong, very interesting perk build, i'll just show my point and personal opinion about some perks you didnt mention here It's missing born ready, imo is much better than sweet tooth for example. Born ready is usefull in 90% of the builds, even if you're using for the secondary weapon only. Driller running cryo and epc or wc is the only one that doesn't benefit from, while sweet tooth I only use on scout and just sometimes. Vampire is better, but for some characters (like scout), thorns is in a much better place since he have a major weakness to small bugs. (But on driller is completely busted) And dash is not useful on scout as well because he alredy have insane mobility with grapling hook and some overclocks, not to mention that he is the best medic of the squad, so Field Medic comes on top too. It's very hard to play some missions without one. But yeah, on other characters, dash is a very powerfull perk. Ressuplier is the best perk in the game for me (passive perk) And I really like See You In Hell. I think is the most underrated perk in the game (not saying its the best, just the most underrated). Saved me and my teammates a lot of times because of the active ability, makes the revive so much easier (specially if you dont have a field medic), but I woudn't trade Iron Will for see you in hell, it's more like a combo between the two
@@Daniel-li6gu understandable, but at the same time, getting back up with Iron will then charge attack a grunt and your back up and running. Then just go resupply or grab some sugar since those are more efficient thanks to the other perks.
@@luizballista9533 interesting. I might try that. I always kill bug's with the pickaxe power attack as often as I can so I get more out of vampire and if not grabbing some sugar with sweet tooth while running away from a big hoard (A situation I find myself in way too often) then the extra health and spees is nice leg up on the bug"s.
@@luizballista9533 Interesting, I'll try that sometime. I use vampire so I can finish off low health bugs and get hp in return. As for sweet tooth, I use it because it's really helpful when I'm running for my life away from a big hoard (A situation I find myself in way too often) where bonus health and temporary speed boost give me a leg up on the bugs.
I think any perk that is so universally used like iton will, deserves to be considered being added to base kit. perks should add to the gameplay and the diversity, not be bog standard. Even though i say that, i bog standard the same 5 perks most of the time as a lil haz3 baby so xD maybe i dont have much room to talk
realistically who takes an hour to a mission but seriously, IW is so good there should be more changes made to other perks to make it on par with it instead of nerfs to it
I think developers should make this perk implemented by default but in weaker version (less duration time, or no more heal revive). This way it doesn’t make dwarfs much more stronger so it breaks balance, but it allows for higher perk variety and will resolve the iron will conflict that was talked about in the video.
I've always said the same thing about Dash, give it a 60 second cooldown instead of 25 and make it a purchase-able upgrade on the armor for each class, they could do the same to Iron Will.
I agree. Another problem I’d like to bring up is that, due to its power as *the* perk, it has the opposite effect on some players, like myself, where it’s so annoyingly powerful I refuse to use it.
I wonder if the devs should allow some of the active perks be put into the passive slots for their passive part, e.g. heightened senses for the warning but without the ability to get out of the grab. But tbh, the perks need a rework
It’s also a problem that by level 60, you’ll probably have every perk unlocked in the game and then milestones become effectively useless. (Especially since there doesn’t seem to be a way to review your milestones so they don’t act as achievements either). Ghost ship, if you’re reading this… PLEASE OVERHAUL PERKS!!
After getting all the perks and continuing to get perks points an idea popped into my head. What if after getting all the perks you get access to essentially ‘ultimate’ forms of the perks, where you have to spend a very high amount of perk points to upgrade a perk to its ultimate. Some examples are: resupplier fully heals you and gives you extra ammo (something like maybe 60% instead of50%. Wouldn’t want it to be too broken). It’s a bug thing makes loot bugs pop within 10m and they drop more materials. Hover boots would instead give you jet boots for around 10 seconds, and if you have jet boots already they will be upgraded to the low cooldown version for the duration. Thorns does a bit more damage and in a small AOE instead of single target. Dash has two charges that regenerate independently. Friendly makes you deal and take 20% friendly fire damage. Beast master lets you have 2 tamed grunts. Second wind makes you always sprint around 15% faster. Veteran depositor has increased range for the defense effect and you get a speed boost after you deposit. Elemental insulation reduces elemental damage taken by 50% and also damage taken from enemies under elemental effects by 15%. I’ve thought about this quite a bit and I think it would be a very good, needed, and well accepted addition.
I was just playing this weeks deep dive and on the last level we dropped in and a prospector was sitting there, waiting for us. The map featured a lovely giant pit full of columns, so it made it difficult to climb out. I hopped out of the drop pod looking for nitra, and I didn’t even notice the prospector. As I rotted around in the pit for nitra, I noticed that two of my teammates were down. No problem, the other guy is probably reviving them right now. Nope, he died too. That’s when I looked up and saw the prospector. I mauled it with my shard defractor, but it got close and tried to grab me. LUCKILY, I had the heightened senses perk, which saved me from being grabbed and let me prevent a 3-mission deep team wipe on a deep dive. Thank you, heightened senses, you are my hero
I definitely agree to a perk overhaul. The amount of customization a Dwarf can have is a huge part of why DRG is fun. I would love more strong options that make me consider what to bring to different mission types.
I agree with you on all the issue you stated and nice to see something that is rarely talked about or addressed as an issue. It would be nice to see a video where you suggest fixes or replacements for the faulty/mediocre perks. The developers might see your video and may acknowledge you. The recent fix for the Septic Spreader's attack to be able to shot down was also suggest by a youtuber (I think it was sniss if I remember correctly). Again, great work with all your content. Hopefully you will see this.
I remember when I first read about Iron Will, I thought it had the limit that you had to use it within 10 seconds of dying, otherwise you stay down until someone revives you. It'd hurt, but I think something like that along with buffs for other perks could balance out the power it has. Cause then you can't just hold onto it for minutes until the rest of your team goes down. There'd be a big risk of wasting it if you use it, but also a risk of never getting to use it at all if you stay down and everyone else dies. It'd still be incredibly powerful, but not nearly as free now that there's some game sense involved in knowing when to use it. An even worse nerf could be that it's forced to be used if you're down for 10 seconds, though that one I don't like as much.
I've always felt that Iron Will should be a free perk granted universally to all dwarves upon receiving their first promotion. That way everybody always has it and they can choose 2 more active perks freely without letting their team down by choosing their actual preferences.
The true answer to ironwill being overpowered is the same answer to dash being so ubiquitous: make them standard on every dwarf. They could additional upgrades to the armor rig that you get as you level up and they could even add new powerful mods to compete with them. Nerfing either one would just be bad for the game imo.
As a scout you can swap out iron will with jet boots to prevent a lot of downs and not needing to rewive yourself if you are far away from your team. It's also a good perk for the driller if you accidentally drilled into a big cavern or getting launched into the air by the rolling bugs.
As a driller.. i just learned to use my terrain scanner so I rarely (if ever) do that to myself. Rolling bugs aren't a common occurrence for me to usually worry bout them.
@@Fin-949 while you have a good point, there would still be good use cases for jet boots even if you get good at not getting yourself killed with the grappeling hook, like when your team pings a nitra vein up high while completely forgetting that scouts also needs something to stand on, activating the hover boots can allow you to get a few pickaxe swings on the nitra, potentially getting you a small hole you can stand in so that you can actually mine all the nitra without having to mine your way up there, that being said, i really do need to get better at not getting myself killed with the grappeling hook
@@jackflican6037 that is honestly just a bad excuse... With a bit of practice you can power attack yourself into the wall. For 95-99% of nitra veins you don't need a platform. I don't think a perk is worth it if it only does something in such a small amount of cases.
@@Fin-949 it comes up more often than you would expect, i also end up with the game launching siprisingly often when i am in a wall that has just enough space for me to be there, so power attacking yourself into a wall is not as reliable as you would think, on top of that, your suggestion can theroretically only work if there is a wall to power attack into in the first place, but even if i got so good at the game that i no longer needed the jet boots perk, i would problably still use it, because it is kinda fun to just stand still midair, kinda like an "i have the high ground" move without the ground.
As of now I have almost 200 unused perk points, after having obtained all the perks available, years ago. So to say the perk system needs a re-work is an understatement for sure. There certainly are only a few viable active and passive perks worth running at higher difficulties. Making most of the perks undesirable and or unusable. GSG really should have addressed this woeful issue before they decided to abandon this game for 1+ year to dedicate themselves to Rogue Core. This is said with love from a player with mega hours in the game.
I have never actually used Iron Will, but then I tend to stick to lower Hazard levels and play solo (so I’ve always got Bosco who can revive you two or three times). I think that the other existing perks need buffing. For example: Make Hover Boots last much longer and allow the player to move around whilst using them (could allow players to cross gaps in the ground without expending their Transversal Tool ammo) Heightened Senses could give an indication of where the approaching attack is coming from, plus when not grabbed by an enemy, the active mode could highlight resources within line of sight (they could glow or repeatedly flash, making them easier to spot in low-light conditions) Allow Beast Master to tame up to two Glyphids, with the second one being given a different name (I invite suggestions), plus make both them and their master regen health slowly For both Field Medic and Shield Link, make Bosco count as a teammate, so you get their benefits even when playing solo With Its A Bug Thing, double the range it effects Loot Bugs, as well as increasing the rewards from Loot Bugs popped by this Perk. You could also have it cause minor damage to Glyphids when they get too close As well as buffing the existing Perks, adding some new passive and active ones wouldn’t go amiss. A Passive Perk called Regeneration could allow you to slowly recover health whilst you are X distance away from any enemies or out of combat. There could be an Active Perk that (when triggered) causes a shockwave of a randomly assigned damage type to emit from the player in every direction, a good counter to getting swamped by enemies.
I think it would be an interesting idea to rework iron will in some way like removing the free revive heal and adding a cooldown in which you can't be revived as like a kind of deterrent to using it brazenly
Lets be honest with ourselves here. IW isn't absurd, it's just easier to slot in and accept this "dead slot" thats only for emergencies because other than Dash and FM the other perks flat suck
Great job on this. I agree with your points. DRG should update perks to bring them up to the power scale. They could also give that perk as a baseline ability so we can all choose something else. Have a good day.
More than anything else, Deep Rock Galactic NEEDS a full perk overhaul. Personally, I'd focus on making the passives more impactful to gameplay, and the actives more like proper customizable tools in your kit. For example: Berserk - Create a unique (very strong) melee move-set unique to the perk. Something more engaging than just spamming power attack over and over. Allow players to choose additional on-kill effects, such as healing, frightening nearby bugs, or extending Berserk's duration. Hover Boots - Let players choose between a very long hover that lets them shoot bugs beneath them, an automatic hover that protects from falls, or a burst hover that acts like a weak double-jump (but still with a long recharge). Alert - Change the passive warning system to a little proximity radar, which indicates all threats within a (very) small radius around you (enough to know if something is about to chomp you in the back). Let players select certain bugs that they can sense from further away, like exploders, mactera, or spitters. Bug Whisperer - Let players give Steeve an additional ability. This could be carrying an object, dealing area damage, spitting acid, or emitting light.
I've got a couple of characters who use strong arm, not for any game reason other than it fit the theme of the character. I mentally assign a name and backstory to the character builds (37 dwarves live in my space rig so far) , so the perks are often based on the character's story more than the usefullness.
I admit, I use Strong Arm. I was delighted by throwing flares further, and I always want it to make Aquarqs and Jadiz and mini-mule legs and such more convenient. I know it's weaker but I love it.
Something I've learned from your DRG perk videos is that my almost 200 hours of solo play I have a very different view on what is a META perk. But that makes complete sense as my perk and playstyle doesn't involve thinking about other players on the team. I pretty much never use iron will as you come with 2 free robo resses by default so the perk isn't as crazy. Even for elite deep dives. I'll find stuff like vet deposit (as I have full control over molly it's pretty much always up) height sense, dash, and tamer to be very strong. However I did come to the same conclusion and resupplier and born ready is 100% required for all builds.
unironically always run strong arm on gunner, just find that the extra throw distance really helps cover for gunners mobility and its the perk i notice missing the most when i dont run it
Iron will: same positives but make all the bugs in a large distance priotize killing you. That includes bugs focused on hittinfg downed teammates etc. also add scream sound when you activate it, basically the idea your dwarf screams when he gets up becasue of his 'iron will' and that makes all the bugs in hearing distance see him as a threat and prioritize killing him. This targeting is permenant for any bug that was spawned at that momemt but new bugs that spawned later are not.
it should lowkey be its own thing, like how we get a 2nd perk slot upon promotion, it should be like a side thing that doesn’t take up the slot of another perk
I'm personally a big fan of shield link and beast master in terms of design, one perk incentivizing staying close to your teammates to provide them with benefits and the other serving as a solid distraction to help your own survivability Tho once again with drg's perk system we got solid ideas that are either undertuned, niche or outclassed and often all three of those I NEVER run these perks except for highly specific builds because of the fomo of not having the better/more consistent alternatives shield link especially since it doesn't work in solo and when in a team environment iron will, dash and field medic severely outclass it in terms of overall safety and utility
I always used to run Iron will, but since I got better I use dash and berserker in tandem with vampire and second wind, sweet tooth or resupplier. I make up for team medic with dash simply by repositioning and getting an opening for revives, very often when low on health Between berserker and vampire I get back up enough to survive the wave. Only go back to an IW setup for certian missions like sabotage and even now the deep scan.
1:41 Iron Will is undeniably strong but, to be fair, like every perk, it DOES have situations where it's useless. Sure, it can save a team from wiping but, if your team never gets to that point in the first place, no one will use it. I've had missions where Iron Will saved the day and long stretches where I never used it once and would have benefitted more from something else since it was effectively an empty perk slot. The inherent downside to perks like Iron Will is that they're only good if you're losing (same goes for Field Medic). And since you asked at the end, my favorite perk is Thorns because I'm a Scout main and I HATE getting caught off guard by those friggin' Metroids (Naedocytes) when my Hookshot is on cooldown! At least I can take them down with me lol.
See I actively enjoy using hover boots on driller specifically. sometimes you just need to jump to avoid being overwhelmed and it also is great paired with neurotoxin
i made our first haz 5 mission with a friend this last week in the first try we get wipped the second try we changed our loadouts and select the perks optimally and not just acording to thinks that we liked, both of us with iron will, and it saved us from 2 more wippes
They could rework some of the actives into passives, and add a passive slot to create variety, like a interesting way to do it is specific active perks act as passives and loose the active function when put in the passive slot. Alternatively they could just buff some of the lesser used passives, even nerfing iron will slightly will not do much because the chance for decent players to save the mission will still be there. (I feel like there are more ways to go about it but it’s just one I thought of)
I agree to an extent. I've always equated Iron Will to something like the Dead Ringer from Team Fortress. Its a get out of jail free card that people can use when things go wrong, and thats why I dont use it. Personally I prefer to give myself perks that are always working, that prevent me from going down, rather than something to help me get back up.
Straight out the gate, the perk system needs a change, that's been evident since before DRG had seasons. I've got 171+ perk points and nothing to do with them. New perks to get, or even a point-to-credit trade, would be nice on that front. Plus, there are some perks that just don't hold up at all, passive or otherwise (if anyone uses It's A Bug Thing, please let me know, you're one in a million fr). As far as IW's balance, someone already pointed out that it's only powerful if it's used. Otherwise, you're down a perk for the entire mission/dd. A friend of mine even has a build that's inhibited if he takes IW, running Heightened Sense and Dash so he can solo run aquarq while I'm mulching the bugs (Point Extract is hell). When you need IW, it's game changing. When you don't, it's absolutely wasteful. (Also, there have actually been moments when the extra throw on flares from Strong Arm would've been nice. Would've saved me a HS charge from a sneaky leech).
if youre good enough to not need it than why are you thinking about the perks that you use? like couldn't that applie to dash as well? if dont put yourself in bad situations dosent that make it only usefull for traversal? I dont get why perks like field medic and dash dont get the same treatment as iron will
@mathierry Everyone has off days or off missions for that matter, and I don't feel like gambling a mission success/failure on my confidence. That being said, I also always run IW and HS, even when playing with others, so I'm by no means claiming expertise here lol. Felt like giving my two cents, play what you want regardless.
@@LetsSeeWhatHappens1227 fair enough. also can you explain to me why a lot of people make the argument against iron will that if you dont die its useless, like dont get why thats see as a valid argument for IW but not FM, HS, and dash (for dash is way to extreme but you get the point)
@mathierry well, as I understand it, IW only takes effect if you go down. If you never go down, then you never need IW. In a similar vein, then, FM has no benefit if you teammates never go down (even with almost 1k hrs in game, someone ALWAYS go down lol). HS is supposed to prevent you from getting downed from grabbers, leeches, and sharks, and you can't Dash if you're downed anyway. So, between the four, there's a pattern: the perk is effectively useless if you never get to use it. You never use a perk if its conditions for use aren't met. So, if you don't die, you can't use IW. That's the argument. You can make a similar argument for the others: FM is useless if you're solo or your teammates never die; HS is useless if there's no grabber-type enemies or never get grabbed; Dash is useless if you just never use it. You can make an argument like that for any perk, as long as you specify the conditions the perk needs to shine. Accept for HB... HB is just a meme lmao
IW is strong but it becomes less useful the better you become at the game, Imo the single strongest and best perk is resupplier since it is so consistently powerful at any level of play and useful on all classes since no matter what youll want resupplies except for doing aquarq speedruns or something, I think Dash is also a must have on driller/engi/gunner but its not needed at all on scout.
I dont get why that argument is made for iron will so frequently and not for field medic, like, at that point does the perks that you choose even matter?
@@mathierry Field medic isnt taken nearly as often, but also field medic provides better revives for a panic situation where if someone or 2 people go down you can get them back up faster without having to make them spend an IW on it. No matter how good people will go down but in good teams its rare for the whole team to be put down.
@@PrimedLaundrySauce than why cant iron will do that too? you have more than enough time to revive someone and get some health, its 2 revives at the cost of 1 perk slot. IW dosent need to be used when the whole time is down and I also think that you should you use it before that happens, not only can it stop that from happening, it also can get someone up that you couldnt revive even with field medic. In good teams field dosent also lose some value?
I play DRG with one other friend. He always has Iron will on, while I most usually dont have it on. Not that I dont like it, but without it I have to play more carefully. In the end I feel like this trains me to be a better player. I also like Jet boots, it helps with mobility and jumping off edges to get away from swarms. The fire from the jet boots also burn the enemies under you while you hover too
i've never care for meta or anything, i only care for what is fun for me(sometime it's meta things but that is like a 3rd priority for me). that's why i've ALWAYS use dash and hover for every classes and every build i play for dexterity and idk they make me feel cool. maybe i'm just smooth brain type of person who like simple things. and another i've always uphold is "keep yourself alive so i don't put too much weight on my friends" i go to high places a lot , i do a lot of parkour, get a good angle on enemies, or i just make a mistake. These 2 perks always saved my life. My perk build is always resuplier,born ready,thorn,dash and hover since the day perk system were introduce.
Mission failure is quite rare even when I play very high difficulties with randoms and the penalty is so minor that I don't run Iron Will. Elite Deep Dives are the only time I consider it. I prefer to focus on perks that get a lot of use. As a level 1,200 scout main who plays with a lot of randoms, Hover Boots is, by far, my favorite active perk. My favorite perk overall is the humble Deep Pockets.
Fingers crossed that if and when we get a 6th season, perk rework is the major feature. I always thought the UI for unlocking perks looked very dated compared to the rest of the game. Iron Will being used around as much should translate it into the only Tier 5 unlock for all class armor rigs.
I like shield link, because it lets me be a really nice guy, and an empowering person to help my fellow dwarves, and keep the funny little buddies I have alive down in the caves.
I am a Strong Arm main, with Gunner. It helps with providing vision ahead, as i also main Lead Storm, meaning i am stationary. That and also scouts always forget to flare up rooms
Here's the tradeoff, if you don't go down during the mission, then IW is just a dead perk slot. If you're not playing a high hazard level, taking Dash, Steve, or Field Medic ends up being more fun or useful. Also, heightened sense is way underrated, even if you have a team that can support you when you get grabbed, it's still a major setback during a wave.
Maybe I’m wrong here, and I would like to hear other opinions on this, but I think one way Iron Will is balanced that wasn’t mentioned here is that Iron Will isn’t always used so it essentially wastes a perk slot. I find that the vast majority of missions I play with Iron Will equipped, I never end up using Iron Will. I think that this is a major nerf, because not having anything is worse than any other perk being used every mission you play. Let me know what you think!
I don't think this is a valid point. drilling in the name of says it perfectly. We wear our seatbelts not because we plan to crash but its there just in case. Having a fallback is important in some missions but sometimes missions are easier than others. Not using the perk because the mission went well is not a justification to say the perk was useless. If you go out for a drive and comeback safely, are you going to say that your seatbelt was useless?
I feel like you have a point, but the knowledge that I have an iron will charge enables me to play more riskily. If those risks never bite me, great! I was enabled to play riskily. If they do bite me, and I go down, iron will gets me back up. Now it is an empty slot. I feel like the "empty slot" thought is a valuable one, but I think you have it backwards
most build i have don't use it, even then when i play with friends their is one who will have it equip. even if i do solo, i trust my skill and loadout that i don't feel i don't need it. Their been time that it would have been helpful and has save a tense game or two.
I much prefer field medic, because it usually helps me to avoid the need for ironwill. Only reason I run ironwill is because scout doesn't need dash as much, and cryo driller can basically guarantee both a melee kill and an ally revive.
Strong arm actually does come in kinda clutch from time to time. second wind on the other hand seems kinda pointless except maybe as a means of offsetting the gunners poor mobility just a tiny bit. But strong arm is decent as a mild utility/quality of life perk, particularly on certain objectives. Pairs nicely with the mobility perk (unstoppable) for reducing speed loss to goo and carried objects. The best combo for saving Doretta.
My sort of solution to iron will being to much of a necessity, I'd like to see it tweaked so if one dwarf is running it then all dwarves have the ability to IW. This would allow some more diverse perk choices for most classes, then depending on what you prefer you could have it on either a gunner or a scout (although gunner would make the most sense because he's basically the team medic). That way it doesn't nerf it because I generally think the way it's implemented is fine, but it be nice to see more people running more options. I don't think it's out of the question for a perk like IW to boost the dwarves motivation, to keep them going and motivate them to get up from being down. Especially if it's your fellow dwarf behind that motivation, the comradery potential is there.
These points are all true, and I've thought about a lot of them myself. But another big factor in balance cases like this is the game's playerbase. In a 4-stacked promo'd level 100+ team all on discord together running EDDs of course something like this is going to feel broken. And really, even in less extreme situations it still does, such as just playing with a few very dedicated randos. But as much as it may not feel like it to us as people who are very informed and dedicated to DRG, any playerbase is going to be largely "casual," and matching commonly with equally casual friends or strangers. Especially in a co-op game like this. Crucially, casuals don't min-max and exacerbate the strengths of things like more dedicated players do. I've played with multiple friend groups and you'd be surprised how many people reliably run Second Wind, Beastmaster, etc. even 120+ hrs in. Hell, some of them think Iron Will is bad and too much of an edge-case. IW can be insane and feel frustratingly necessary if you know what you're doing, and even more so if multiple people know what they're doing. But the vast majority of players probably don't even know about the Vampire synergy, or care, unless they're told. And even then they'll probably forget it after they drop the game for a few months anyway. I think from the viewpoint of a majority audience, IW is pretty balanced. The issue, imo, lies with serious players feeling like any un-optimized part of their build, or self-induced challenge, is like, neutering themselves or something, and forcing this mega-sweat ideology onto other players lmao. And that's something no amount of re-balance will fix. Besides, anything can be broken if you push it far enough. Good vid btw, im just a gamer gettin their thoughts out lol. no hate here
I actually like the way that IW currently works. I think it introduces a tense decision making moment when you or your team goes down. Who is gonna IW first, how will they get HP, how will they get to relative safety. I also like having the lifeline of it because I don't particularly enjoy failing missions, especially when some missions can be very hard or very easy due to the cave generation and random spawns. However, although I like IW and eould prefer that it stays the way that it currently is, I would really like to see other perks get buffed to the point that they are as good as IW. I would love it if Steeve could sacrifice his own life to bring his master back up. I would love if Hover Boots just gave you jet boots for the mission. I would like to see perk changes so that perks can be more balanced, but I don't want it to come at the cost of a perk that I personally enjoy.
Hooverboots for scout are a good option to get rid of falldamage or having a engeneer free possebility to get minerals and other stuff in difficult locations. For other classes.. its mostly the same. IW and Dash. I wish they would ad a third slot for active perks.
I tend to go Dash + Field medic on high hazards, though I didn't realize healing while using Iron will works this way... These 3 are by far the best active perks Would love to see some new perks and a few existing redesigned. I'm sitting on 160ish perk points with nothing to do!
i think instead of nerfing iron will, they should buff up the other active perks to be a bit more powerful. some of them, like shield link, have passive effects as well as their active use, but what if all of them (except iron will) had some sort of extra passive effect to help them stand out. for example, Berzerker currently is pretty underwhelming, as it allows you to boost your power attack rate and slightly boost the default damage of the pickaxe when used, however the damage increase is a very insignificant, and doesnt really matter because it only affects regular pickaxe hits and not power attacks, so it doesnt make a difference because during berserker you'll pretty much just use exclusively power attacks anyway, so then, what if they enchanced the damage increase to the regular pickaxe attack to make it a bit more significant and then made a passive side effect instead of a part of the berzerker state. they could then also give similiar passive side effects to the other active perks aswell, making them truly viable.
Honestly i didnt use iron will for a very long time because its description says you go down for good. I used to assume that meant that if you use it, your team is permanently down a member.
I hate to use Iron Will myself because it feels too situational. You go down even slightly too far away from your full team or a red sugar vein and you're screwed. Unless you get real lucky and a team wipe happens in a big pile it's not gonna help. People can tend to scatter when shit hits the fan, others could be too swarmed to revive, and so the brief duration of the perk balances it out so its a never pick for me, too stressful and luck based.
I Think this is a fair point but i also Think that its important to remember that when you just need what is good then slowly it gets more and more boring so insted of nerfing ironwill to the Ground they should put it Down a peg and then LIFT those kinda bad one from the floor
i really like running berserker on my engineer but the cooldown is so fucking huge that it doesn't really help much even though the perk is really fun its great for clearing out decently sized groups of grunts and for digging gold and dirt
I've heard it said that nerfing meta items isn't a good idea and I think this applies to deep rock because of its usefulness in stuff like haz 5 etc. Having a third active perk slot or just making it a universal ability would lessen the divide of usefulness between perks and "free up" the perk slot.
I love Iron Will, don't get me wrong. But when I started to get really good I just found I almost never go down. I found myself using more and more obscure combinations. Hoverboots have huge utility uses in some circumstances that I never even thought of before, and I recently started using Beast Master as a tool to avoid damage. For me, Sprint is the strongest perk nowadays.
I don't use iron will because you can use it only once. Any other perk helps you to stay on your feet and makes you better. If you don't lay down on a mission it's only make you worse. Fight with honor, die with glory Miners. Rock And Stone!
Strong arm is nice for cutting down on flare usage and scanning the sealing with flares (discount scout). Second wind is nice for getting to the drop pod. Iron will is strong but not needed. I play on PlayStation and i have had a couple bad experiences but i can't recall getting yelled at for not having iron will. Maybe i have but don't recall. If people are that sucks and that's not cool. I run beserker mostly for oppresors, two high damage picks just about kills one and you don't have to deal with the knock back
iron will is op reaction perk, dash is op proactive perk. would like to see perk tree similar to gear mods, that effect various dwarf trait. ie, mining speed, health, unique skill, skill specific gear etc..
Honestly, a perk overhaul is something I've been begging the developers for since the seasons started coming into play. I honestly thought it'd be the main focus for season 4 since season 1 got primary weapons, season 2 got secondaries, and season 3 got grenades. I thought season 4 would be a perk season for sure, instead we got overclock reworks. We didn't even get it with the recent season 5. It's kind of disappointing how neglected perks have been in the game for a number of years now. In terms of iron will, I don't think shortening the time up will solve anything as people will start running vampire universally to combat the nerf. I'm not sure if getting rid of the ability to get yourself up would help either as that would, in my opinion, kneecap it into being almost useless. I think the best way to balance iron will is to give the other active perks a bigger buff to make them a more tempting option against it. Make it so beast master makes steeve a lot more tanky and more damage. Also make it so he has the ability to attract more bugs to him. This will make beast master amazing at taking pressure off the players. If they can make the other active perks enough buffs to make them more tempting options, I think it would be good enough to give them a place with iron will and make it so iron will feels a little less...required on higher hazards.
Iron Will always left a bad taste in my mouth. I never used it because I preferred other perks, and have been removed from stage 3 of deep dives for not having it equipped. At the time I never knew what the perk did and I kinda never wanted to after that.
I definitely think that the perk tree needs an overhaul I don’t run Ironwill, Dash, or Bornready I am thinking about even getting away from resupplier I currently run Sprint, Vampire and Resup but am thinking about changing it to Elemental Insulation For active I run field medic and shield link I play each class equally and generally have the same perk loudout for each class Playing on Haz5+8 has forced me to take a much more team based approach to encounters and running the perks I’ve listed allows me to keep my team going and focused on the obj while keeping me alive Some good changes to certain perks I think would be to have the Armor and Pickaxe upgrade trees changed in order to incorporate some of the current perks and open up those slots for other options
