Definitive proof that you need cavity shielding on your guitar 

Thanks. I really wanted this to help me decide if I should use tape or paint, I'm probably going to use the paint going forward but I really like the look of shielding tape. At least it's clear that they both have an effect.

Thank you for taking the time to comment, I'm glad you found it useful.

Hey, it's a pleasure and I'm so glad it worked. A client just sent me a guitar to do some upgrades to, it had a hum and no shielding. I don't really understand why manufacturers (and this is a well known midrange price) don't shield.

Thank you so much. I'm hoping this series will build the channel a bit and help with views.

Cheers. I think I'm going to make some more videos like this where I test things out.

Thanks so much. It was actually great fun and I must do more things like this.

@@DevilAndSons I agree! I thought might be interesting to see if guitars with separated pickup and cavity routes (such as gibson or certain ibanez routes) would benefit since you can't get tape through the wire holes to make a full connection between cavities like you can with a pick guard.

Good idea. I have also been thinking about this, and about using a wire to link them together. I also want to see the difference between shielded and non-shielded wires.

@@DevilAndSons yes, that would be an excellent experiment as well. I have some wires that hum super loud when I touch them so I'd have to imagine it would be much better with shielded wires instead

I'm so glad. Thanks for watching

I recently made thus which should be helpful too ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-46KZfjnilMM.html

Thanks so much for letting me know. I am positive it is worthwhile. I didn't cover though that humbuckers are often shielded with their own metal plates at the back, and that you can get shielded wire... but I think it's still worth the effort.

These pickups were very much like typical great sounding single coils complete with lots of noise so it’s worth the effort… especially since it’s in pieces right now.

Do let me know if it was worth it.

Exciting. What design are you building?

@@DevilAndSons headless 6 string based on the Strandberg Boden

Excellent. Enjoy the build.

Thanks for watching and commenting

The whole point of this experiment is to reveal what works and doesn't. It is surprising what some of the results are. You're spot on with touching the strings.

Thanks for watching and commenting

Great, I really enjoyed making this one. I'm glad it was interesting to other people.

That's great, thanks for commenting. I'll have to look into Elk brand.

Thanks for adding this information, much appreciated.

.... and stop them working !

That's interesting, thanks for sharing this info. Does the paint adhere to the tape OK?

@@DevilAndSonsyes if applied immediately after taping, so no oxidation. In the defence industry we used silver/copper paint but this is £60 per tiny bottle (think nail varnish) so that's £120 per guitar. I never measured the resistance but if it's good enough for them military I guess it's near zero ohms.

That sounds like a RU-vid video! Using the most expensive shielding paint ever! Thanks again

If the pots are touching the tape then they are making contact and forming part of the circuit, and then there should be a wire from the pots to the bridge. I haven't used the L Sensors yet but I hear good things about them.

That would be a good test. Although of the pickguard makes contact with the guitar body but for the bits that don't and are like the roof of the cavities it could well help.

I'm pretty certain you can, but in order to make the shielding connect to the ground I would add a wire from the back of a pot to the inside of the cavity with a screw holding it I'm place that penetrates into the shielding

I show that in this video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-46KZfjnilMM.html

Absolutely, connecting it up makes it much better, but I was surprised that it did still help not being connected.

Thank you so much. Please do ask your question and I will try and answer.

@@DevilAndSons Some people claim it is all about grounding and shielding only works as a tone knob, is is true? Or shielding works with perfect ground better than tone knob? I so bad understand...

I haven't heard about it effect the tone before. It's definitely there to help grounding. It needs to be linked into the ground loop though by touching the the control knobs or the earth somewhere.

@@DevilAndSons So about the fact that with "perfect ground" shielding only eats high frequencies like tone knob does - is it not reliable information?

I don't know why that would be the case. Can you link me perhaps to a video or article that says it does as I have never heard that. It certainly helps with hum, and you could use a "tone control" to do that by cutting the frequencies, but shielding should prevent the hum and buzz, not cut it. I hope that makes sense.

Good idea. Next time I have one in the workshop I'll film a test on it. The problem is a lot of the guitars I have that come through like that have humbuckers where the hum is a lot less noticeable due to the type of pickup. Still, worth a go. Thanks for watching and commenting.

I've actually started using rustin's shielding paint, it's not made specifically for a guitar but seems good.

Have you found some particularly bad strings for conducting? I'm assuming if the sound is there without the strings it will either be the same or worse with them.

It absolutely does. Some tape has conductive glue. I sometimes fold a piece of tape length ways and tape it the lengthe of the shielded area to make contact with all the strips. I have a video showing that... I'll just find it and link it below.

Here's that video, it's about 4 and a half minutes in. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-46KZfjnilMM.htmlsi=zPtWZ_TBcy8UvCRx

@@DevilAndSons nice!

What was interesting about this experiment was that it made a difference regardless, but it is definitely better when it does touch. I have a video that goes into details about ways to ensure they are linked. I'll post it below.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-46KZfjnilMM.html

Without watching through it all again I seem to remember that I was working up to that, to see if it actually made a difference. Also if the pots are grounded and make contact with the shielding on the pickguard it is grounding it.

@@DevilAndSons On my Strat, the times the ground wire has been accidentally released sounds the same as the first example. Regards!

In that case having the cavity insulated but overlapping to the top so it makes contact with the pickguard, and therefore the ground on the pots is sensible.

I'm not sure I know what you mean. I didn't have control over it exactly, I just reduced it with the shielding. Are you saying you want to be able to control how much you reduce it by?

​@@DevilAndSons No, I'm saying that when there's a time difference between when you take the measurements, the intensity of the EMI source may have changed. The more likely explanation is that the shielding acts as a quasi antenna, and when it's connected to ground, you eliminate that amount of EMI. It's got very little to do with 'shielding'.

@ahall3823 ah yes, that makes sense. I as I say, it's not a completely rigorous experiment but it does help show that it works in theory.

Cheers.

When I first shielded a guitar I was surprised what a difference it makes, and then wondered why companies don't do a better job of it.

Good point, i didn't go ahead and just do the pickup cavity. I didn't boost any sound. The sound may not be as good on the video as in real life but it definitely did make a difference to shield it. I have another shielding video coming up in a month or so, I have a new shielding paint to use and try.

Hey. I'm in Brighton. Where are you?

@@DevilAndSons ahhhh so Brighton Rocker.. I’m entrenched in London, Tottenham.🥹

@@FredGuits What were you after?

Hey.. I have a fender player tele and a 5 string squier bass that need intonating.. And also Fernandes strat that I want to bring back to life( new wiring, shielding, and bridge hardware) but your you tutorials are really good so maybe I’ll attempt that myself

@FredGuits honestly, if they help you do it yourself then I've succeeded in my aim of both doing myself out of business and empower people. If you can follow my full set up video I would suggest give it a go. I'm happy to answer any questions and help if I can.

Yes. I totally confused myself when filming and of course meant shielding. Thanks for pointing it out.

I should have tried that combo, it does make sense to tape the back of the covers. The video at the end of the month will reveal the logos (but you're doing very well).

I hear a lot of people saying they prefer copper.

I think you're right, the shielding paint you can buy must be of varying quality (and price). I bought a cheap make online to test and it was actually quite good so I'm sure making your own must be at least that good.

Absolutely. This whole Faraday cage thing does my head in. It's like the tonewood discussion.

Thanks, I am going to start guessing what your responses will be.

The pickups would have to be in reverse polarity. Also the closer they are (like on a humbuckerl the more similar their signal would be to cancel out.

@@DevilAndSons I have a couple of guitars. In positions 2 and 4 there is zero hum, even without shielding.

Interesting. I wonder what pickups they are using. Which guitars are they? I'd like to look into that.

@@DevilAndSons Just a regular stratoids and tele-like ones.

What make and model though?

It's earthed by touching the pots, whose casings are grounded to the earth lug.

@@DevilAndSons Touching will give you more unpredictable noises. Solder the shield to the ground lug or one of the pots. Make sure that the shielding is one continuous shield

Why do you think that? Would you suggest isolating the pots using non-metal washers? When I use shielding paint I always have an extra wire screwed into the wood cavity through the shielding.

@@DevilAndSons What you are trying to build is a version of a Faraday Cage which you are trying to shift to the groundSo your shield has to be shifted to the ground as a whole, preferably to a single ground (to eliminate induction) . The contact to the ground path has to be as good as possible which means you clean the surfaces properly to get rid of oxidation and then solder. Top of the pots touching the shield is not enough and can cause more harm then good. I am an electronics engineer, this is 101

So do you suggest separating the pots from the shielding so they don't touch except the grounding wire you solder to them? Also, what are your thoughts on how to chain the pots together? In a row but not looped or spidered out from one pot?

I like the ease of the carbon paint. Sometimes I fold a piece of the aluminum tape and lie it across the whole cavity linking the pieces. I guess amazing in this case meant it got rid of a buzz really easily.

@@DevilAndSons Define "got ride of". What I'm saying is how much attenuation is there?

Do you think there would be a noticeable effect with this amount of shielding? I doubt it. Compare it to the guitar cables you'll be using, surely this is negligible in comparison?

Interesting. I wonder if it's the copper or simply as you say, the amp combo. Did you have any areas that have tape on them that aren't grounded (I.e linked back to the main cavity and touching the pots which are grounded or with a wire directly linking the cavity to the ground)? It's possible the copper in cavity that isn't grounded may actually be amplifying the sound.

@@DevilAndSons I can't imagine that would happen, I don't use nylon or rubber washers so they should be grounded. Ground to the springs as well.

I am very surprised then. Is the hum bad?

@@DevilAndSons No worse than without, Tex Mex pickups

How frustrating.

I make them, you can buy them from devilandsons.guitars/shop

Yes, but in fact there are lots of things to take into account. Some wire is shielded anyway, and some pots are just better built than others. But generally humbuckers are designed in a way that eliminates the hum, so you may not notice any difference with shielding. Most humbuckers are going to have a metal base that works like shielding would, and that's wired into the ground loop, and some p90s and single coils may have metal bases too but that's not as common (at least with single coil, I'm notb100% sure with p90s).my thoughts are you may as well shield unless you have something that may interfere with shielding, for example I'm installing a piezo pickup and preamp that recommends you don't shield your guitar as the preamp may pickup interference from that.I hope that helps. Happy strumming.

@@DevilAndSons cheers for your advice, l think painting it with carbonised paints the way to go.

My pleasure, thanks for watching.

You are definitely right about the Faraday cage, people talk about that all the time but the pickups will always be outside it surely. I'm not sure about the rest of what you said as shielding the cavity does make an auidable difference. I can't see how just shielding half the cavity (the pickguard) is better than shielding it all.

@@DevilAndSons ahh right well basically by shielding, your not covering anything or blocking as such. As the only Ef your guitar can pick up if from the pickups, and you cannot cover them so Your making an antenna so the EF gets absorbed more by that and sent to ground rather than the pickups. As for the most part the pickguard is usually large enough to make an antenna that by that point there’s not much left for the small cavity antennas to capture as the pickguard has already scooped up. With no shielding on the pickguard yeah you will hear a difference by just shielding the small cavities. If you look at a band say autolux years ago they covered their whole guitar body and bass body’s in shielding on the front (as they use a ton of effects) making a huge antenna around the pickups and sending it to ground. Has nothing to do with stopping ef hitting the controls or switches that would be impossible without at least an inch thick of copper surrounding it.

Very interesting. Sounds like some more testing is needed. But, do you think shielding everything is detrimental or just overkill?

@@DevilAndSons depends. Shielding all the cavities on some guitars may result in shorting connections immediately or down the line Especially if it peels up. I think the pick guard is sufficiently large size. I know a few people who have stuck copper tape all in the control cavities and then one pickup won’t work or the tone does nothing. I’d say it’s not worth it unless say your guitar has no pickguard.

Yes, that is obviously a problem if not done properly. Thanks for input and info.

Interesting comment. I have definitely noticed the difference with good shielding.

Dummy coils sounds interesting- I'll have to look into that. Thanks.

@@DevilAndSons definitely it won't hurt shielding (except for vintage guitar with weak magnets... Seth Lover explained why talking about his choice of materials for paf covers). Except for my 71 Dan Armstrong all my guitars are shielded and what I can tell is that as soon as I touch the strings my marshall starts playing FM radio if the outlet socket isn't property grounded. xD

Interesting. I think the playing the radio is to do with the grounding on the amp.

Shielding is for EF radiation like when you guitar is too close to other equipment/lights. not 50/60hz hum. pickguard & cavity shielding have absoloutly nadda to do with AC hum.

That's my favourite part, I like the way I have colour coded the writing.

I think I'm missing something. Is that where you learnt it?

@@DevilAndSons not me but friends... No prejudice, I know a couple rough fellows but they concur that cavity shielding is de rigeur.

Well, that is very interesting.

Did you watch the video? The aluminium works really well.

I used Elk brand copper tape on a Squier strat and it works beautifully. Zero noise. Absolutely 100% better. I didn't expect it to work as good as it does.

Great stuff.

That's a good solution. Any particular brand and models you recommend?

@@DevilAndSons Either the dimarzio areas or practically any kinman set.....coupled with shielded wire for the input jack its all i need for a dead quiet guitar.

Shielded wire makes such a difference I'll look into Kinman, I don't know their products.

@@DevilAndSons They are a bit pricey but pretty much the best strat pickup sets out there......all the tone, no noise...i mean i tried everything,shielding paints,copper and aluminum tapes,hand made dummy coils,fancy uber expensive dummy coil like systems like the ilitch one and in the end a set of high quality noiseless pickups can do anything with zero noise not just reduced noise......even regular humbuckers are noisier than these things....

Well that sounds amazing.

Yes, i can't believe it either. It's annoying and I corrected it in other videos. Anyway, you are right about the glue, that's why I'm not a fan of tape.

To be fair all my videos could be 1 minute long if all I did was tell people some facts without demonstrations etc, thankfully it's easy to jump around and fast forward videos.

The Faraday cage is definitely a thing, hence why the more that is linked up the better, but you can't (as you say) put a cage around the whole thing. Technically the strings aren't oart of the circuit although they are grounded, the pickups work by the magnetic interference from the strings. Shielding the wires also helps, hence why most pickups will have shielded wires, and most humbuckers will have a metal plate underneath that is grounded too.

@@DevilAndSons think of the signal path, consider the signal wire and the wires a pipe. All shielding outside the wire is external to the pipe. Your signal is the water in the pipe once your strings pickup RF it is duplicated in the magnetic field which will then go from your pickups to wires to your out and out to its final processing and output.

I'm a bit lost as to your point, sorry. Are you saying there's no point shielding as you can't contain it all?

@@DevilAndSons point is all the shielding in the world won’t contain RF noise also 60 cycle noise is in the line not in the ambient.

@@bluwng why does it make a difference then?

ha. Gulp! I hadn't noticed that! Gulp.

Imagine how I feel looking at them every day!

Robert Johnson sold his soul to the Devil to be able to play the blues, you can sell yoirs to have the design of your dreams. Take the step and make it real. Plus I wasn't actually made by God Almighty, it was a couple of people called Roz and Barrie.