I'll pin a comment answering common comments I see: Whoops. It got unpinned because I edited it. RIP. The Snowdin shop keeper saying the brothers both just showed up one day can easily be ignored. She just means they showed up in Snowdin, not in the underground or in this world. She probably just assumes they moved to Snowdin due to overcrowding in New Home, which is an established plot point in this world. Sans using "magic" in UNDERTALE can be chalked up to him using Gaster tech. Alternatively, since Monsters gain magic when they enter the Dark World in DELTARUNE, then maybe Sans coming from a post-Roaring world allows him to use magic now. Or maybe just Sans coming to UNDERTALE (a magic filled world) at all allows him to use magic. The Sans in DELTARUNE IS the Sans in UNDERTALE. The idea is that DELTARUNE takes place before UNDERTALE, relatively speaking. We just haven't gotten to the part where Sans leaves yet. After he leaves, Sans may simply be gone for all future loops, or he may be replaced by a fake Sans by the Angel. While there's no direct confirmation that Papyrus exists in DELTARUNE, Sans stated he has a brother, his brother was Papyrus in UNDERTALE, all other familiar relationships are the exact same in DELTARUNE, AND when you click on the door to Sans' house it references "Bonetrousle," which is Papyrus' theme music. Needless to say, I think Papyrus exists in DELTARUNE. Regarding why Sans has a store that used to be labeled "Grillby's" in DELTARUNE, I would just assume that the Grillby's in DETLARUNE was made by the DELTARUNE version of Grillby. Maybe he made his original restaurant, it went out of business due to competition from Ice-E's and QC's, and then Sans bought it. That seems more likely than Sans teleporting a whole building across realities and nobody commenting on it. xD Regarding the infant rabbit creature that talks about humans being made of blood, I didn't think I needed to explain this since I thought it was self-evident, but my conclusion is that the rabbit is an infant who has no idea what they're talking about, and they are talking in extremely vague terms regardless. If you have to pick either Susie or the infant to believe, Susie makes more sense. I would not be surprised if the rabbit heard humans are made mostly of water, and thus concluded that they must be made entirely of blood, as opposed to monsters who only have a partial amount of blood. Regardless, infant rabbit was a trap laid by Toby Fox that I fell for hook, line, and sinker, and I am now recovered enough to realize that. xD
19:08 It's impossible if Sans's body are only made of skeletons, he can't hold ketchup in himself, he is Ness, and it's better not to lie to ourselves, and even he can't deal with monsters. And all the documents and symbols in the Endertil game are not random.
if he truly is from the Deltarune timeline, Sans dying offscreen could also be a subtle reference to Darkners running away off the screen when you reduce their HP to zero instead of dying outright
@@deirdre9849 Actually, it doesn't. In the original Undertale Demo, the act of harming an enemy, even if you spared them, would increase LV. This was changed in the full release, and the only time you can ever get LV now is by actively killing.
i genuinely love the part where it just devolves into an increasingly elaborate and heartbreaking fanfiction ive gotta say if toby fox goes in a different direction im writing that
@@partymix1997 The main name could be "Undertale and Deltarune: The war of humans, monsters, and angles." The chapters/sections could be called: 1. undertale and deltarune: the angle's power. (the start) 2. undertale and deltarune: the shadow's light. (finding the lab) 3. undertale and deltarune: the hero's fight. (the hero's fight the angle) 4. undertale and deltarune: the new world. (the trip to the new world and the very start of his arrival) 5. undertale and deltarune: the travelers plight. (him getting help and learning about the new world) 6. undertale and deltarune: the thorny truth. (Flowey resetting) 7. undertale and deltarune: a second beginning. (sans comes to terms with the fact he probaly won't get back.) 8. undertale and deltarune: the other angle. (sans learns about the angle prophecy in undertale, and frisk shows up) Thats all i got lol.
This series both feels like watching a man slowly going insane but also feels like someone with forbidden knowledge coming down and sharing it with the masses. So like good job I guess?? Idfk just keep up the amazing theorys !
@@No.1RatedSalesman because why would the night if it isn't a new character be something nonsensical like mad mew mew it seems very unlikely the other options are good but papyrus seems like a great fit turning a random character evil is something toby would do and he could easily be different in DR and theres more reasons that are in a video I watched that made me consider this possibility I am horrible at explaining why I believe this so watch the video
I always hated the two faces on the Gaster sprite thing. I always considered it a coincidence and that Gaster was just another skeleton, hence the references to Wing Dings and Aster fonts. But having it explained like this, I'm sitting here thinking, "why don't I hate this?" Maybe finally having an explanation that BOTH faces are a person we are at least aware of satisfies that for me.
@@JaruJaruJ It's entirely possible that the sans from Undertale and the sans from Deltarune were swapped when sans used the machine, which is another explanation for there only being one sans.
The thought of sans not having any magic, but an arsenal of other wordly tecnology makes him look even more cool to me. AND the fact that weapons and literal magic have no distinction in battle scenes, some enemies like the 1st dog you fight at snowdin and mad dummy using knifes are my examples, would be the biggest revelation together with your theory.
@@No.1RatedSalesman no? It was literally a *knife,* and normal one i assume. It's colour changed to blue in the fight but i think monsters can either enchant normal objects with magic, changing it's colour(asgore fight as an example) or it's a gameplay thing. But yeah Undyne's spears are just magic, they're blue and appear out of nowhere, therefore, magic.
@@pros_0143 I just said the knife was normal, you said there was no distinction between magic and weapons so I pointed out that normal weapons in battle are either obviously weapons or are magic Also we know the spears are magic since alphys has a "magic spear repair kit" on her date, so they're not enchanted Edit: OK so after looking at the 'read more" tab I have an explanation for greater dog and other spear users, normal magic is white, like the spear is
I decided to look at Sans’ dialogue in his genocide fight, and something he said in that really stood out to me with this entire theory: “you can’t understand how this feels. knowing that one day, without any warning… it’s all going to be reset.” You gave this line a whole new meaning with these theories!
Thousands of fan series with gaster being a huge piece of the storyline, and making him a major piece of the plot with many hours of animation on the specific mystery man designs: exist Jaru: *”Im about to end these peoples whole careers”*
@@fajriputrarudisukmawan7294 No, I mean them, Kris's gender is unknown, so gender nuetral is the correct pronoun. Kris has never been called "him" once in the game either. Only they. Edit: Well I'm stupid I didn't know why I thought I was talking about Kris, but they is still right considering it's gender neutral.
Piece of evidence literally no one talks about: The song "sans." (It plays in the Grocery Store) is the only Deltarune song to be lifted straight from Undertale unaltered
The vibe of watching the second half of this video is just Gaining whiplash from watching this man play 4D Chess with no one but himself and I love that energy
This theory is fantastic, and yknow what gets me? Even if it’s completely different and the true story of deltarune goes in an entirely different direction, you’ve put the pieces together to tell an incredible, heartbreaking story. That’s insane to me.
not to be rude (this is a theory tho and NOT COMPLETE FACT) but it’s probably true the game will go completely differently , BUT that doesn’t mean the theory was pointless, first of all an interesting what if ig, but perhaps parts of it will be correct, like every time he says the word “the” surely thats part of the script (and you know actually important things)
these theories are incredibly wacky and almost certainly incorrect but man do i love them, theories like this really make you think about things you would normally never even consider so you did a great job!
Another banger video and thank you so much for the shoutout! I really appreciate it and it's so cool to see people coming together and bouncing off each other to piece together this game. Keep up the great work!
I always really love your theories cuz even when I don't think they are right, they are always really interesting and play within the themes of deltarune. I think people tend to focus too hard on solving deltatrune to the point they forget that deltarune is a story. So I really like that you turn your theories into stories themselves.
Thank you! The story is really important to me, so if a plot twist doesn't make sense in the context of the story Toby Fox wants to tell, then I generally won't be inclined to believe that plot twist is true. That's why I generally don't believe there will be multiple endings or some sort of happy ending, as I don't think that fits with the theme Toby Fox is going for in DELTARUNE. Thank you for the kind words and comment! :D
My personal theory is that Susie's half human, more specifically her mom's a human and her dad's a monster. Her being half human explain a lot of things about her: her "Everybody bleeds" line, why she's insecure about her tail, why she has such a normal non-themed name unlike basically every other monster, why she's the only character that can refuse the player's will, why she picked on Kris more than anyone else at school and why her magic is weaker than Noelle's (and presumably other monsters). I think her mom is the human one because Susie clearly has mommy issues, with her dialogue about Toriel in CH1 and just the way she treats Toriel in general, and the way the Spade King's relationship with Lancer probably reflecting her relationship with her dad. I think she only has 1 parent and that's her dad because in Undertale Clam Girl specifically refers to Susie (or "Suzy") as her neighbor's daughter, in singular. The story could go that Susie, her mom and das were once a "happy" family who lived in a town with more humans, and because of the nature of their family they suffered bigotry from both monsters and humans. One day the mom couldn't take it anymore and just left, and that's what caused Susie and her dad to move to Hometown aka a nearly monster full place. I also think Susie was born looking more like a human and grew more monster characteristics as she got older, that's why she covers part of her face with her hair and wears loose clothes that cover a lot of her body. The only thing that doesn't make a lot of sense is Susie existing in Undertale, cause like, how would her parents have met in the first place? But it could be that she has a different mom in UT and that's why her name is spelt differently, idk.
if susie is part human on her moms side and has mommy issues, that may even be a reason why she picks so hard on kris in particular. i know she says that its because kris pisses her off because theyre so quiet, but it might go deeper than that; the whole "quiet" thing being a coverup? i dunno im running on 4 hours of sleep spouting bs LOL
Another supporting piece of evidence for this theory is her ashamedness of her tail. She makes it a constant point near the end of Ch. 2, almost as if she's ashamed of it or something. If she was half human half monster, that would explain not only her being shy about having a tail but also potentially her dragonlike heritage. Her axe is said to have been made from a dragon, but she looks nothing like the dragons in town despite having similar features like her snout and large pair of teeth. It's quite possible that being half-human half-dragon would explain this strange difference. Also, her Susiezilla fantasy, as silly as that might sound, might also have some basis in feeling inadequate as someone with dragon heritage and not being able to live up to that big and scary expectation of her kin. To explain how she could exist in undertale, the clam girl who talks about her also lives in Waterfall, adjacent to the Tem village with the legend about dragons. It's possible she lives with a full family of dragons around that area, and could be fully dragon in the UT timeline. Her name is spelled differently between games after all so who knows how much she could have changed.
I suppose this taps into the larger element of how monsters and humans interact in the DR/UT world. It's never really eatablished firmly as to whether monster biology is compatible with human biology, or even just monster biology with the biology of other species of monster. The citizens of Hometown seem generally chill with Kris just being around so presumably they don't have a problem with each other, but the topic of human-monster relationships is never really covered. One would assume a) monsters and humans are biologically incompatible or b) they are, and the offspring inherits the traits of both. It's never brought up in game so it is impossible to establish if in the world there is prejudice against monster-human hybrids, at least as of yet. We can only wait to find out whether this will ever be established but since Toby likes his commentary on real world topics it wouldn't surprise me if there is going to be a subplot about how this sort of thing works in human/monster society.
I cant remember what happens in ch.2 if you go to the hospital room with Shyren in it (i think shes in the room next to rudy in ch.1 but its empty in ch.2?), but i think you have a good theory. - you can check shyrens sisters grave in ch.1 but susie interrupts you on that grave and that grave only in ch.2 - her saying quiet people PISS ME OFF checks out with your theory about lancer and king; king literally says the same thing word for word. I think theres some sort of Dark World reflecting the darkness from the "real" world/light world thing going on i.e. the shadow crystals when you check them, and each dark world so far has started off in a state of turmoil and you're pretty much supposed to go in and "bring the light" but i cant fully flesh it out yet. Snowgrave + exactly how much Ralsei is acting in good faith make it complicated.
Cant edit on phone but tl;dr is that imo susie is related to Shyren; she might have been a shy child as a half monster/human and a bully used that exact "quiet people piss me off" line on her. The dark world reflects that past trauma. Noelles past trauma is reflected in the Dark World (spelling out December is a very, very oddly specific occurence) and you/kris can help her through it in, ah, very contrasting ways to make her s t r o n g e r
That's what im saying his theories were actually really good its a shame the community constantly hated on him and now he wants nothing to do with the series anymore
@@MutedAndReported3032 matpat used undertale as a clickbait for a completely unrelated game, heartbound, making it seem like an undertale sequel, didn'n name the game at all in the title or thumbnail, and didn't even link back to the original game in the description of the video so yeah
You know? There is something I don't think is discussed enough. If Sans is from Deltarune, that means he knows who Toriel is, how she looks, and how she behaves. That means that when Sans mentions her when you have dinner with him, he knows who she is, and is likely testing you. When they meet at the end of the Pacifist Route, Sans must be pretending to not know how she looks or her name. That explains why he made a promise to her: she was one of his friends in his home that he managed to find again in the Undertale reality. He hates promises but he is willing to make one for his old friend, someone who he deeply appreciates from the old world. While Deltarune doesn't change the events of Undertale, it will definitely recontextualize a lot of things about Undertale.
When you slowly flipped the mysteryman sprite upside-down to reveal the second face I felt like a deltarune secret boss after drinking the crazy juice and becoming self aware.
@@thibaultvallin8074 There are no hard and fast rules that govern what gets color and what doesn't. Toriel and Asgore's eyes get color for no clear reason. No reason blood couldn't be colored too.
Jaru, I’m noticing a common response of yours to people asking how sans can use magic in undertale seems to be ghaster tech, but I find it more likely that being in the undertale world would latently give him magic. A. Monsters in the dark world gain magic in DELTARUNE B. Because the angel is not influencing the magic of undertale, there is no reason for sans to be devoid of magic C. This would also explain how he gets tired easily, his body is not used to using magic entirely yet (and laziness of course) Just thought I’d bring it to your attention in case no one has said it yet. If they already have sorry
@@pedromarques2788 Maybe he'd be a kind of hybrid case, since he came from elsewhere. Maybe since, in Jaru's theory, he was starting to get erased by the Angel while he escaped, losing parts of his memory, when he got spat into Undertale, the missing parts were filled back in with Undertale's magic-based biology. So he might be part magic & part water/blood. --- (That's enough for me to say already, but my brain randomly went a few more directions so I'll just drop some additional random thoughts here too...) --- Heck, he might even be an amalgamate of sorts. On the deltarune tumblr's sparse entries, there's a post where Sans talks about several subjects, eventually weaving into telling us we should pay attention to the lower half of Shyren's body. While it looks like Shyren is a fish-headed mermaid, in fact she's just the fish, & the lower body is her "agent". Then, Sans invokes Gaster by talking about it being rude to talk about someone who's listening. Then concludes "not everyone is as strong as my brother." There's a lot to unpack there, but one of many, many possibilities, is that one of Gaster's pieces (or even one of UT!Sans's own pieces, going off of Jaru's theory here) fused with DR!Sans as the world's attempt to put back together something that was broken. Maybe UT!Sans's or UT!Gaster's experiment failed at the same time DR!Sans was entering the world (perhaps what drew him to that world in the first place by accident; an anomalous event being attracted to a reality where another was taking place), & with his increased Determination compared to UT monsters, DR!Sans became an amalgamate with UT!Sans, or UT!Gaster. A relatively stable one, sure... But we know that he's familiar with the True Lab (the many mentions of the dog food bag in the phonecalls, conversations between himself & Alphys, along with the fact that it almost seemed like they were acting like they didn't know each other but it slipped out accidentally, etc). But he seems very keen on keeping the Amalgamates a secret. And there's that very strange line in one of Papyrus's phonecalls. ""THESE SNAILS ARE JUST LIKE MY BROTHER! ROUND, SLOW...AND CONSTANTLY EMITTING SLIME???" then "EMITTING SLIME... THAT'S JUST WHAT BROTHERS DO." Then later, when mentioning a snail-shaped pasta, Papyrus speculates that Sans will "PROBABLY FILL THEM WITH HOTDOGS AND SLIME." What if Sans sometimes can't hide a bit of occasional gooeyness due to being an amalgamate? & maybe tried to pass it off as nothing unusual to Papyrus, who still doesn't totally buy it, enough to call it into question but then try to almost passive-aggressively shrug it off? (He's not as naïve as he seems, many folx seem to forget that). Of course, that's a total shot in the dark that just came to me, not likely, but still might be another angle to consider. Especially as to how Sans may not have died in the G-Route but in fact may HAVE "gone to Grillby's" & taken the bar to another parallel timeline like a big goofy TARDIS (and, in fact, may have come from a DIFFERENT Deltarune, ending up at the current one AFTER having existed in Undertale? He definitely playfully jabs at the player in ways that imply he knows we're out here & that we know him... ;3) --- OR... maybe some of UT!Sans (from Jaru's theory) ended up as Memoryhead? Like... it's the only amalgamate that doesn't show up with family in the overworld after the ending, doesn't have a Deltarune grave equivalent, it seems based on a skull/skeletons, & being called Memoryhead that makes me think of the desperate "don't forget"... They also place a "bad memory" in your inventory that hurts to consume & can't be gotten rid of easily. But yeah, too many tangents, I"m going to bed lol! 😅
@@ZaCloud-Animations___she-her About you're first theory, I think that would be a bit of a dumb answer. The Amalgamate theory you made makes sense, Sans sometimes melting makes me remind of Chara, where their face melts in the genocide route, which proves that physical bodies can also melt with determination, maybe Sans has too much determination for his body to handle, which makes him melt... About Memoryhead, if i'm not mistaken, it also has an attack where it creates a bunch of heads that looks like Gaster's (Mystery Man) head... Could that also be some sort of connection with Sans, Gaster or the skeletons in general? Maybe... I've been thinking, and I have another theory, what if Sans, for some reason, can use dark world magic, that can be a answer to why the door in his room looks like the doors you use to teleport in the dark world, that would also explain his teleportation powers. In my point of view, Sans clearly has some sort of connection with the dark world, another thing that proves my point is one of the photo album he has in the room that is in the back of his house. "There's a photo album inside the drawer." "There are photos of Sans with a lot of people you don't recognize." "He looks happy." Are those the darkners? I think so... Also when you enter Sans's room for the first time, everything is dark and it looks like you are walking in an empty void, until Papyrus turns on the lights, Papyrus then says something like: "Why were you using a treadmill in the dark?" "Is Sans pranking you across time and space?" "I hate it when he does that!" Which proves that there's something wrong with Sans's room door... Sorry for my very mediocre english!
@@pedromarques2788 we just gonna ignore we already know you don’t need to be made of magic to use it? I ain’t reading those long comments but I mean flowery could still fire pellets despite being a flower with Determination, neither of which are components of magic in UT
Although I’m skeptical about the story of sans, mostly because it’s all conjecture, I do believe that your theory about the monster bodies being made of matter is solid and also that sans is from deltarune. I just get the nagging feeling that since we haven’t seen him yet, papyrus in deltarune might be different than the one we know-like Toby’s original concept for papyrus, the incel with the fedora. Who knows. Edit: I DESPERATELY hope that papyrus is not Incel Papyrus. Let’s hope that Toby Fox shares our wishes
This would be interesting. On a personal note, hope Papyrus isn't a literally incel. He's my favorite character and this is too much. But stay with the fedora, that's cool
one thing id like to dispute is the fact OGSans just randomly got gaster'd? There's only so much "it gaster" i can accept. Something else i'd like to propose is Sans absorbing the soul of OGSans. Given this Sans would have a physical body, no capability for magic and a pretty large amount of determination I can fully believe he's capable of absorbing a boss monster soul. So what would happen if Sans absorbed his own soul? He'd be a very unique being, to say the least.
Very interesting theory! However the shopkeep in Snowdin Town says that both of the skeleton brother came out of nowhere and asserted themselves so papyrus and sans both came out of nowhere instead of them being regular residents (then sans got replaced with sans) I really liked this theory it was very cool to watch
I once heard someone argue that the bleeding Susie sprite could have been made by one of the other devs on the team and Toby cut the sprite because monster's don't bleed. I'm not sure if that's actually the case though because why would that sprite be in the game files if that was the case? I doubt that's actually what happened, but I thought it was worth bringing up.
I mean, there IS a lot of cut content still in the game, not even counting stuff like the Trefoil that goes unused but could conceivably by seen later on. Examples of cut content include the dialogue from an unused version of the Clover battle, an animation where Kris falls on their face coming back in the bathroom window, a treasure chest with a revivemint in the room with the two bloxers, and a chest containing Broken Key B in the room before where that key is normally found. The importance of that sprite could go either way honestly
I feel like there's three possibilities with what you said It's entirely true and Toby forgot to delete the sprite entirely It's true, but Toby left the sprite to fuck with us It's wrong To be honest I'm leaning towards one and two here
@@tloks8737 I feel like saying that absolutely everything was intentional is a stretch and doesn't make much sence. For example, is the place holder sprite for Kris that is just a blue scribble intentional?
@@No.1RatedSalesman yes it was left there knowingly. there are plenty of similar examples to that in both deltarune and undertale. goofy stuff, but some lore hints as well. again, toby has stated before that he's aware of these sorts of things.
really good theory. i still find it hard to believe that monsters bleed, considering the “does it hurt to be made of blood” line and their line about humans having skeletons would be a really lame misdirect from toby if it turns out that monsters bleed and have bones. “does it hurt to be made of blood” seems MUCH more of a deliberate line than “everybody bleeds.” either line requires ignoring the other and i personally find it much more likely that toby overlooked the implications of a random line in the middle of susie’s many dialogues than the ONE line another character has. still, i enjoy the theory about sans here. if i’m right and monsters don’t bleed here then i wonder if it’s possible that sans isn’t originally from deltarune either? that he’s dimension/timeline hopping to get away from some other unknown tragedy. he did, after all, just get to town in deltarune, too. maybe deltarune papyrus is another version of his brother that he adopted or maybe he’s from a whole third timeline. are any other monsters in undertale able to talk with their head disconnected from their body? i think it could also be possible with your theory that it is the same papyrus. if they left while the angel was resetting, maybe papyrus’ memories were wiped too? i find it unlikely that sans would draw the fun gang to say “don’t forget” instead of his dead brother. wouldn’t he be more important to not forget? but if both of their memories were wiped and sans only remembers because he wrote it down/drew a picture, it makes sense that he wouldn’t let papyrus know about their tragic backstory to protect him. ESPECIALLY if they’re continually timeline hopping and sans knows that the trauma of wherever they’re running from is what made papyrus reclusive in deltarune in the first place. for some reason, i just don’t feel like we’re ever gonna get the whole story about sans. but i’m just spitballing here. video gave me much to think about. even if i don’t necessarily agree with all your conclusions i LOVE how much your theories challenge what is “accepted” as known about deltarune. throwing spaghetti at the wall is fun sometimes! people are just more concerned about being “right” than having fun
Do we know who was behind the door and said the “does it hurt to be made out of blood” line? It could be a ghost or a skeleton or a fire monster or something without a corporeal body
It’s possible. But there is a part of the theory that Jaru didn’t mention because is in a lot of other videos. In UT you can go to a room that has a series of items: a police badge, the blueprints of the trash machine (at least they look the same), a picture of three individuals with the words Don’t Forget written behind it. All of the elements are in DR. I thought before that this was only a way of teasing DR before we knew we were being teased hahaha but maybe this could have something to do about it. Also, ICE E don’t exist in UT and sans gives you a paper with a letter soup.
@@Blue-fg8vt they could live alone, and a random stranger knocks on their door. The internet is down, so this was a good opportunity to ask a question that’s been bothering them.
@@AshenDust_ Liveing alone does not mean you don't know anyone. If haveing blood is common enough among monsters that everyone bleeds' can be taken literally and not figuratively, then monsters that don't bleed will ask such questions growing up. I believe far more likely that 'evreyone bleeds' is just an expression among monsters taken from human culture , or , if we assume the cut sprite is still canon and not left over from cut ideas, Susie could be in some way biologically unique though for that idea the only evidence is the lack of her getting sick as she eats anything and her bleeding.
I think the Deltarune monsters having real bodies instead of magic still doesn't explain the "does it hurt to be made of blood" line. Solution: young monsters don't have physical bodies yet, and the one who asks Kris if it hurts is concerned about their own impending transition from magic to matter.
Explanation: Kids are dumb. We don't know how young the monster asking the question is. But young kids often ask dumb questions about something they just heard/learned about it. Seems no different than a kid learning about oxygen and asking "can I taste it?"
Didn't Toby say he saw Deltarune's ending in a dream, and that's why he made the game? An ending of you hopelessly attacking an invincible beast, just to help someone else escape a doomed world seems like something you'd make a game around! 45:18 also, deltarune enemies run off-screen when you "kill" them! (...also, do deltarune enemies turn to dust when you kill them with snowgrave? the animation kinda looks like it, but it's unclear to me)
I'll say this many more times but, this is genius. You might not see it that way yourself but these theories are seriously mind-blowing. I'm just kinda sorry for Toby since he tries to keep things secret until the chapters release. But yet, you deserve more... Everything!
Something I'd like to add to your theory (spoilers for the Snowgrave route): In the Snowgrave route, you can actually keep Noelle in your party if you spare Berdly or defeat him normally. If you then backtrack to the cheese room, you can use Snowgrave on the Maus enemies, which causes them to actually die with a unique animation instead of being frozen like Berdly was. Which makes me think that were Sans to die on-screen, his death would display the same unique animation.
Except noelle killed a darkner, I’m positive sans is a lightner.. We have yet to see a lightner die. Berdly’s presumed death was by ice so we can’t see him die. dangit Toby.
@@goatswithcoatz I mean when being frozen your cells explode almost immediately, and if the monsters aren't made of magic (which I'm still wondering if it is or isn't the case) then berdly is dead
When the whole deltarune comes out, if your theories become not true, we as a community should make a mod where the story changes to make the theories true
I think that a way to explain how Undertale Sans died is with Gaster. He likely used the machine himself, and visited Undertale. The timeline may have shattered Undertale Gaster to prevent the existence of 2 of the same people simultaneously. Therefore, the same thing would happen when Sans used the machine and arrived in Undertale. It's possible that the Angel's power was what broke the machine when Sans used it, allowing for Gaster to travel to Undertale and back before Sans used it. Undertale Sans may even still exist within the fabric of Undertale itself, in the form of the error-handling message in the dog route.
already, 7 minutes in, i gotta say, thanks for including a "relevant conclusions" thing, it's really helpful considering that your way of theorising about deltarune is sort of more creating your own AU than staying in grounded logic, which is cool but can make it difficult to understand if randomly coming in or if some videos are missed or points in them forgotten
What if the sanses switched places? Like, when sans from deltarune went to Undertale, maybe his Undertale doppelgänger got forcefully sent to the deltarune timeline? And maybe he just rolled with it and assumed that deltarune was just what happens when the monsters are freed
@@JaruJaruJ Is it just me or is the Sans in Deltarune seems unusually mean-spirited and full of attitude? His style of "comedy" seems to be "punching down" his audience and he seems to have lost his chill/light hearted charm, which was really jarring to see. All he does is make fun of Kris, take jabs at Asgore and razz Susie. The only one he was friendly with was Toriel, until she leaves. When you're doing a pacifist route in Undertale, Sans seems to riff jokes off with Papyrus, as though they're both aware of Frisk and are trying to have fun to make them laugh. When you have Frisk play along with Papyrus' antics, Sans seems to let his guard down around you. The pranks are childish (whoopie cushions, razzing you about the price of snowballs he isn't actually selling, "combing" the top of his bald skull, stacking hotdogs on your head, etc.) This is generally unrelated, but he also seems to be friends with a lot of people in the Underground, or at least a lot of people in Snowdin. The only times when he's serious in a Pacifist Route is when he seems to be breaking the fourth wall and addressing The Player. When he threatens you at the end of the dinner at Mettaton's hotel and at the end when he passes judgement on your actions before you meet Asgore. And even then, to unlock more secrets in the house, (and he seems aware that you want to go snooping in his bedroom,) he teases you more with childish "password" pranks before giving you access to the bedroom, where he PRANKS YOU AGAIN before leaving clues to the secret storage room with the time machine. Papyrus even acknowledges this being a prank. I know Sans in a No-Mercy route or a neutral route where you kill Papyrus is edgier and wants nothing to do with you. This is understandable. HOW COME Sans lost his chill in Deltarune???? Am I the only one who noticed this??? In Undertale I didn't trust Sans that much but I knew the fandom was crazy about him for some reason. But in Deltarune, I wasn't expecting Sans to be weirdly dislikable.
It'll be wild if Undertale gets an update when Deltarune releases, and then we have to replay Undertale's Pacifist route after to conclude DR's story. After all, what would be strong enough to beat a monster with 7 human souls? A flower with 7 human souls, and all the monster souls. * With the addition of your SOUL, Asriel will be strong enough. * You tell Sans it's time to go back. I guess the player's power would allow us to bring Asriel from Undertale to Deltarune to fight the angel
Even though I’m still not sure how likely these theories all are, I’m sure you’ve got at least one major plot point predicted. Either way, it’s really nice to see all these theories and how they connect, and they really help fill the void that waiting for the next chapters creates.
Wow, talking seriously, I couldn't EVER think of it. This whole theory really seems interesting, and even though we probably never get to know if it's true, I still think that you did a GIANT work making all the facts stay together, so I really await for your next theories :3
You know, you could be half-right about the whole Sans and Gaster sprite combo. As somebody who likes the fanon version, I could very well argue that the dark face seen when you flip the Mysteryman sprite upside down is Sans and the face when viewed normally is Gaster. And Gaster could very well actually have holes in his hands.
16:02 i always thought berdly was in the fallen down state in snowgrave, but he could actually just be, human like dead. but you do actually get to see darkners turn to dust when they die from snowgrave, which also supports your theory
Ahhhhhh, this is the content I've missed; I love when you shift the professional theory talk into the storytelling. Great mix of information and entertainment in this one, can't wait for the next. Keep it up!
Sans : "Seems like my bro wants to hang out with he's new friends, have fun you three, oh and" Looking at *you* with the blank eyes and say "Make sure he doesn't get hurt, okay?"
The biggest problem I see with this theory is that San's and Papyrus' house in Deltarun is exactly the same as in Undertale, and it has snow on it and everything. There's also the fact Sans brought Grillby's with him and refurbished it as a mini mart.
Theories about sans's depression before deltarune: sans is 'lazy' because he knows it's a timeloop and it's gonna get reset, so he doesn't bother After deltarune: he's from another world entirely, and his original brother died, and he's now stuck here with zero hope to return to his home, and his trauma of having his home world reset comes back in this world too, and all the while he has to uphold a nonchalant, carefree persona to protect the alternate version of his younger brother, which is the closest and only thing he has attachment to he has left in the entire universe
What if Sans just switched with his other self? Then the loop could have restarted with the Undertale Sans, leading to an altered timeline... and an actual good ending. But I don't think that's likely at all since the story would lose a lot of weight then.
There's one hole in your theory. I'm pretty sure the characters in Undertale mention both Sans and Papyrus showing up one day and "asserting themselves". Meaning Papyrus can't have just been a local he found. There's still ways around this, maybe Papyrus was a recluse before Deltarune Sans showed up? Needless to say, if this ends up being how things shake up, it'd be really cool if Sans was missing on repeat playthroughs after you've beaten the game.
I'm only discovering your videos now & gosh they're amazing! Even though some ideas I feel are a stretch, I enjoy your narration. I enjoy the passion you & I share for these two games. If nothing else, I get great entertainment out of your videos so keep 'em coming!
I like to imagine that the angel is somehow december holiday, since she already has connections to the angel and mysteriously disappeared. also sans talks about noelle and her sister (and monster kid) being IN A LITTERAL BLIZZARD. Something biblical has happened to dess and it would make sense if she is the angel.
to crarify, sans in the xbox version when you have around a thousand fluff balls in the dog shrine says that he only ever saw a blizzard like this a long time ago and he saw the yellow kid, the deer girl and her sister. Cryptic as ever
I love your theories so much; they're so creative and I can tell you put a LOT of effort into them! This one is so horrific, it'll haunt me until Deltarune finishes. I'll now be playing the next chapters with the constant fear of Papyrus and Asriel being dead. Despite that, this is such a good theory! And also your narration was really good
I definitely think Sans came from Deltarune's world, and that Papyrus didn't come with him (he turns to dust after Frisk kills him and doesn't bleed like Sans). Gaster is the ultimate mystery character, his backstory can be pretty much anything Toby wants. You brought up some very good points as to why Sans isn't from Undertale, the prospect of him bleeding and Deltarune monsters being able to bleed didn't even cross my mind before. Great job.
Something that I don't see anyone talking about with the whole "Sans comes from Deltarune" theory, is that even if it's true, the Deltarune world that Sans supposedly comes from from is NOT the version from the game, because of the simple fact that Sans' Deltarune world didn't have the red soul from the Undertale world. We already know that the story can still progress normally even without our intervention, so I feel like our prior knowledge of Undertale might be the key to saving this timeline. If you played Deltarune without prior knowledge of Undertale and the genocide run, the chances of encountering the snowgrave route would be so much lower, because nobody would entertain the possibility of something like that happening without having known about Undertale. I'm kinda going off on a tagent here but I feel like diverting the story as far away from how it would naturally flow as possible might be the only chance we have at preventing the roaring. I hope I made sense there, sorry if that sounds dumb I kinda suck at this kind of stuff lol
@mahoushoujo I actually feel like it would be just as bad if not a worse outcome. You prevent the roaring, but at the cost of killing everyone anyways. So the endings are still kinda the same it's just that the semantics are different.
It would be the funniest fucking thing if the "everyone bleeds, right?" line was just an accident on Toby's part (even though there's like a 99% chance it wasn't), it would just be hilarious
I've never been so amazed at a theory, this one seems legit right, it connects everything, and explains most of Undertale mysteries. Just to think about the fact that (spoiler of the theory alert) UT's Sans and Gaster are fused at the neck is chilling
This is gonna be fun to hear, I always believed Sans could bleed (especially in UT) because the matter in bones has a lot in it so it would be possible for monsters to bleed. Aside from that, glad you're uploading again, it's always a pleasure seeing you discuss about DR. :)
@@antoineedoh9999 Im not sure how matter in bones actually works but I think that sans had more major bones in general being affected considering he gets literally cut in half while papyrus had less bones affected from getting decapitated. He may have bled but it wasn't enough for us to see it
Another solution to the papyrus problem that makes a little more sense to me would be that the ferry man is deltarune papyrus. This would solve the issue of sans leaving papyrus as he never did it also gives an explanation as to how the ferry man knows about them travelling from another world, the only problem with this interpretation is that the two have since split apart for some unknown reason(s) likely due to having travelled to a whole other world. ( I'm not a theory person or anything so this comment probably sounds nuts but I just wanted to point it out hopefully someone with a better knack than me can take this idea and make it better lmao.)
YESS THANK YOU. SOMEONE SAID IT. i love all the everything about gaster being the mysteryman, and all the designs everyone's made, but it's never been canon and it's a pet peeve when people assume as much. also, on toby writing darker yet darker stories, i'd just like to remind everyone of two things; one, one of his first games (the halloween earthbound hack) was often commented on for having really dark themes, and two, he lived in andrew hussie's basement, the creator of homestuck, one of the longest pieces of media in human history letalone on the internet, and something known explicitly for ripping your heart out and eating it in your face while you die. fox made so much music for that comic too. i know for a Fact that this dog would gladly write just about anything, if it made both him and you feel something.
Papyrus isn’t as ignorant as he seems though, Paps has knowledge of timelines (to an extent) and Sans’ powers. And the shopkeep says they both just “showed up one day, and asserted themselves”
11:57 low-key I have my own personal theory that Susie is a unique case of a monster who bleeds, it's odd how most mentions of monsters and blood come from her, and if she knew she bled, then she'd probably assume everyone else bled, explaining the "every body bleeds" line, and it's not like we know very much about her past, so it's not unlikely that something about her past might explain the blood
i legitimately screamed into my pillow when you started the whole dead papyrus thing. how dare you write something like this, make it make sense, and emotionally wreck me?!?!? (/lh)
while I think you're still holding on too tightly to your original theory and a little high on COPIUM, I thoroughly enjoyed listening to your story telling. also your willingness to boldly scramble the puzzle pieces together has given my brain some interesting ideas to work with, some of which are definitely headed in the right direction
I love the bit that says it explains why he can dogdge like darkners, I never thought about that and I'd say it's probably one of the best evidence he's from Deltarune. Also Sans Deltarune doesn't know the player yet, which means the Sans we meet in Deltarune was before we meet the Sans from Undertale.
The idea of only Deltarune Sans making his way to Undertale makes sense, but the shopkeeper in Snowdin says both Sans and Papyrus randomly showed up one day and asserted themselves (Lullebee pointed that out first in the comments). Perhaps the brothers are both from Deltarune, and Sans either convinced his brother extremely well to not have him tell everyone in the underground that they're from another world, or maybe Papyrus was too weak to resist the Angel's reset, and lost all his memories while Sans retained some, if not all of his. As for what happened to the Sans and Papyrus that were native to the Undertale universe, maybe they are both the monsters that make up "Mystery Man" in the secret room in Waterfall. The primarily blacker face on the sprite looks a lot more rotund then the whiter one, so it could be that that's Sans's head, and he shares a mutilated body with Papyrus. Maybe the Gaster in Undertale did some horrifying experiment with Determination or something else entirely on those skeletons, perhaps as a desperate plot to break the barrier or to stop the RESETS, which could explain why the room Mystery Man must require you to write 66 in the Fun variable. By the time Deltarune Sans and Papyrus made it to Undertale, the original Sans and Papyrus were already long gone, so there was no issue with them blending seamlessly into monster society. Perhaps the Sans and Papyrus that were native to Undertale were much more introverted, which is why no one noticed them disappear. That's just my idea though. This theory was amazing as always, and I can't wait to see its follow up, as well as the content you will make afterwards!!!
remember when deltarune ch1 first came out and everyone thought it was the sequel to undertale? if this theory is true, then deltarune isnt the sequel, undertale is. just in a very complicated way.
I would assume Susie's different despite being a monster, but if Kris were to bleed, it would be red too, and that goes for the rest of the lighteners, darkners I think are just like Undertale, if THEY were cut, it wouldn't bleed, but I think it would just make a hole, or leak dark juice or something.
Gotta say this is probably the most crackpot theory yet Can't say I agree but I also can't say I'm complaining about just the passion that went into this video
My girlfriend has happened upon each of your videos in slow succession and ended up sending each to me in a frenzy as she tries to battle this new information and interpret it into her own theories.. I love it haha!
Toby fox: deltarune is it's own separate thing, don't associate it with Undertale. the community: I dunno, seems pretty Undertale connected to me also your what u said at the end is literally the "listening to music when happy vs when you understand the lyrics when sad" meme
This video was truly amazing... tbf all of your videos are. I cant believe your theory made me love sans even more than I did before. Now I'm somehow even more excited for a gaster theory.
I think the people making the argument that “Toby Fox would NEVER make a story this dark!!!” completely gloss over the darkness in Undertale; sure the game has funny moments and a possible happy ending, but Asgore kills children, Asriel either dies as Flowey or is forced to go back to an unfeeling soulless creature no matter the ending, Chara went to the Mount Ebbot to commit game end. There’s way more depressing things that can be listed off, but Undertale isn’t even the darkest thing Toby Fox has made- need I remind everyone of the Earthbound Halloween ROM Hack? Overall, I really like this explanation for Sans’s origin and I think it’s the best explanation for the Deltarune universe blood paradox; however, when it comes to Papyrus, an NPC in Snowdin states they both randomly appeared at the same time, making it hard to believe that they would be different ‘species’ if they both popped in at the same time. Also, UT Papyrus clearly knows about Sans’ origins, even if the other UT characters don’t: he directly asks Frisk if Sans is pranking them across time and space. Not only that, but UT Papyrus is clearly hiding something. For example- when you call him inside Alphys’s Lab, he is alone on the call and he will clearly know what the Lab is, what labs are for, and tells you to tell Sans about it, because he says Sans loves “science fiction, especially when it is real.” However, if you call him in the room before, Sans is present and Papyrus makes a dog pun instead, playing dumb while also referencing the existence of the amalgamates. There’s full theoryposts that go into detail on Papyrus’s weird anomalies, but suffice to say, he KNOWS things and hides it from Sans. UT Papyrus also shows signs of amnesia, like Sans but in a much more overt manner. For example: neither Papyrus or Sans remember what Papyrus’ favourite food is- only Flowey does (Undertale Q&A). And in Papyrus’s room, if you call him a second time after calling, exitting, and reentering, he literally says “Do I know who Papyrus is?” So here’s my crackpot theory to splice into yours: Either Sans or Lightner Papyrus functions like Jevil/Spamton, and gets information from Gaster on how to build the Dimensional Machine. They find out it needs Determination/Soul power to function, something we know Lightner bodies can produce. I feel like the machine would need this level of power to escape the Angel who has godlike power, and as we saw with Spamton/Jevil, Gaster’s information always has a steep price. This would also explain why they would have the Determination Extractor Blueprints from Gaster- he knew they would need it. So Papyrus, willingly or unwillingly, is used as the fuel for the one way trip out of Deltarune’s timeloop, justified as a way to save everyone, because that’s literally the one thing we know about Papyrus- he believes everyone can be saved and he wants to be a hero. The trip essentially burns away his physical Lightner form, and all that is left upon reaching Undertale is a near ‘empty’ (in power) soul. Which.. doesn’t kill him! Because Undertale monsters are just that- souls given shape via magic, which is abundant in the Undertale universe. So despite surviving, this makes Papyrus a living Ship of Theseus. Which begs the question- how much of him is the original Papyrus, when his physical form is gone and replaced by magic? This is what I think explains his strange amnesia in Undertale- he is quite literally the ship with most of the wood replaced, but still enough to know he’s Papyrus and his brother is Sans. While there’s a ton of holes, this explains how he turns to dust without bleeding, why he gives such little backstory about himself, how he is able to arrive at the same time as Deltarune Sans, how he knows about Sans’ extradimensional powers yet nothing about Deltarune, why he would lie to Sans, and a whole lot more. Just remember that out of every character in Undertale, including Sans himself, Flowey spent the longest time with Papyrus, because he found him the most interesting and entertaining. There is absolutely more to know about Papyrus than just the “brother of Sans”, yet we have so little to go off of.
My God, how did I not see your content before??? The way you theorised and came up with the conclusion is some Game Theorists quality crap oh my God- I mean, its so convincing if you don't know any better. At least in my opinion. Great job on the video btw! 👏👏👏
The angel could supposedly do all this with 7 souls? Yet Frisk prevented Asriel from creating a world in which Chara was alive again? If it was Frisks determination that stopped him and we agree Frisk was also being puppeted by the player why would Kris be unable to stop the angel, while being in similar situation?
I think you're misreading what exactly Frisk did. Frisk didn't stop Asriel from doing anything. Frisk just helped him remember his own feelings and helped him work through his baggage. If Asriel had wanted to keep going, then there would have been nothing Frisk could do. Frisk just convinced him to stop by refusing to back down.
@@JaruJaruJold up. If the angel has infinite power why reset the timeline? If the angel can cube spheres(e.i make two different things one thing) why not just erase the titans from existance? Why not just prevent the roaring from even being possible? Why can you propose an infinite being has limitations? If it has limits why can he make magic beings bleed? Two fundamentally opposed things. In addition, if Asriel wasn't being prevented from reseting the timeline, by Frisk, why did he waste his time trying to kill Frisk?
@@poisonedbananabread1460 Who said the Titans were a threat to the Angel? They're probably not. And I can propose the Angel has infinite power AND limitations on how it can use that power by simply concluding that it can't interfere with the rules that govern its own power source. If it messed around too much with souls or determination, it would undermine its own power, and thus would risk its own destruction. And that's assuming it could interfere with them at all, which it might not. As such, since it can't rid people of Determination, and Determination can theoretically do almost anything, then it's reasonable that any restrictions its operating under are a result of these realities. Any other inconsistencies arise purely because we don't know about or understand the Angel's personality, values, or goals. Most of the limitations on such an entity would arise from its own personality, and not from the limits of the world around it. And Asriel wasn't trying to kill Frisk. Asriel was trying to ware down Frisk's will enough that he could erase their memories, as he wanted to relive the events of UNDERTALE over and over again forever.
The beauty of your videos is that I don't have to agree with your theories to enjoy them. You start out with detailing evidence, which usually gives me extra context into the world regardless of if the theory resonates with me or not, but they're always entertaining to watch unfold, to see the story you weave from the evidence provided. I usually find something to latch on to(like the idea of Oberon Smog, that is the coolest freakin' thing), and it's overall just a cool story. I think that the way Toby Fox's mind works is a complete conundrum, but I'm confident that when the rest of Deltarune comes out, I'll be keeping your theories in mind and see how much you guessed, and how much was behind the curtain that nobody saw coming.
16:05 to be fair, you could really go either way with this part considering in Undertale there aren't any gravesites for monsters or anything whatsoever, yet there is a graveyard in Deltarune with the names of monsters presumably buried. While it could be the case that the tombstones are symbolic and there isn't actually a dead monster buried beneath, it would also make sense that since monsters turned to dust in Undertale, their dust would be collected and boxed almost like a cremation would for people irl. So it would not be unreasonable to assume that in Deltarune, all lighteners bleed and leave corpses just the same, otherwise there would be no need for monster graves, as Tombstones for cremated individuals are a pretty rare occurrence.
