Thanks for all the support! I'm happy seeing people enjoying this and the new ideas. I don't know what to do with the new viewers but I hope I'm entertaining with whatever I make. See everything I used pastebin.com/Z3peQyB3 🐐🐐 And the music used in every part: Shiruba - Giant Feet (overlayed with some other noise in the video) Deltarune - My Castle Town Deltarune - When I Get Happy I Dance Like This Deltarune - w Undertale - Home Deltarune - A Town Called Hometown Undertale - Dating Tense! Undertale - Spear of Justice Paprika - Parade (instrumental) Deltarune - Attack of the Killer Queen Deltarune - Queen The Legend Of Zelda The Minish Cap - Cloud Tops Undertale - Dogsong Deltarune - Field of Hopes and Dreams Shiruba - Never Televison Patricia Taxxon - GDGEGDGCDEDHECETCHCOHTHOTOTO (Track 3) DELTARUNE - GALLERY Deltarune - Quiet Autumn Deltarune - The Dark Truth Shiruba - Then Midnight Deltarune - Spamton Deltarune - The Legend Lunaxis - Attack On Titan Kirby and the Rainbow Curse - Final Boss (Dark Crafter) DELTARUNE - AUDIO_DRONE DELTARUNE - ANOTHER HIM Shiruba - Toy Deltarune - it's a red guitar Undertale - Home (Muisc Box) Deltarune - Until Next Time Deltarune - Don't Forget Undertale - Hopes And Dreams Deltarune - Weird Birds Deltarune - WELCOME TO THE CITY (alt) Deltarune - Flashback Undertale - Finale (SiivaGunner) Patricia Taxxon - GDGEGDGCGDEDHDECETECHCOCHTHOHTOTOTO (Track 3) Patricia Taxxon - GEGCGEGHECEDCHCOHDHTDODTOTOT (Track 11) (overlayed with some other noise in the video) Deltarune - Dialtone Deltarune - The Circus Shiruba - Soon Transformation Patricia Taxxon - Pablo Picasso nelward - Bust the Nut! Shiruba - Too Unreal Deltarune - Smart Race Deltarune - Before The Story Deltarune - You Can Always Come Home Deltarune - My Castle Town
Yes With Him Also Slashing The Car Tires So That It Would Look Like Someone Was Around The House Other Than Them Before They Sleep Is Completely Genius I Agree Heavily.
When I first got to the end of Chapter 2, my thought process was something like "Damn, if Toby's showing us this already, there must be even crazier shit coming later."
I hate the "but they wouldn't reveal the knight this early" Yes, yes they would. Because "who is the knight" is not that big of a plot point that needs to be left for later. The story has just started and we have no idea what the final mysteries will look like. It is very likely that the identity of the knight is a very tiny piece of the larger puzzle, and that it is necessary to show it now for the later parts of the puzzle to be laid out.
yeah, this is what i've been thinking as well; the knight's identity is not the major puzzle piece. The thing we should be asking is what is Kris's motive if they are the knight? (And why are they doing this in the first place?)
I personally don’t believe in Kris knight (I think that Cris is definitely connected to the knight or gaster or whoever the big bad is in some way, I just like other candidates more) but I do agree that argument is dumb
Quick note. Kris eating the pie could actually have some significance. I mean, in the darkworld food doesn't work, and they skipped breakfast, lunch and had to go to bed early missing dinner. Basically, Kris never actually ate, thats significant to our relationship with kris. Its not a total "HAHA, gotcha!" I'll leave other comments here if I have something interesting to say.
Second interesting thing, There are explanations for if they're not the knight for the door opening and making the fountain. There's an theory that I really like about asgore entering the dark world in the next chapter, due to him potentially still having ties with the police. In that case Kris making the dark fountain here makes sense, because their goal is to get Asgore and Toriel together or something.
Ah I see. I realize Kris not being the knight wouldn't make it a complete joke, but considering they fall asleep in class I think they did more than eat a pie to regain some energy.
Eating the pie was also necessary for Kris' plan - remember, the only reason Toriel let Susie stay the night was because her car's tires were slashed, and the only reason Kris had time to slash the tires was because Toriel had to bake a new pie to give Susie. If Kris hadn't already eaten the whole pie, Susie would've just eaten it and then Toriel would've taken her home, leaving Kris unable to pull her into the Chapter 3 Dark World.
I'm pretty sure Queen's dialogue about the fountain being created "today" is because she's a computer, who interprets time very literally, so even if the fountain was created immediately after midnight, she would still say that the world was created "today" even though that isn't how most people would think of time.
@@cokesloth I'm referring to how computers keep track of time very rigidly, in increments of 24 hours, so as soon as the clock goes to midnight, it's a new day, even though most people are still asleep and wouldn't think of it being a new day until around 6 or 7 AM. Also I'm a girl lol
But Berdly and Noelle's stuff is already set up on the table when they return to the Light World, and they're also sitting at the desk (while Susie and Kris, who came in afterward, are standing near the entrance), implying that they were able to set up their study session before the Dark World formed.
16:36 I think that the ‘history’ of the dark worlds aren’t something that happens in an instant, but rather are the histories of the light world inanimate objects given consciousness by the dark fountain.
I'd argue this is actually necessary. Chaos King couldn't be mad at Lightners for abandoning the classroom unless he remembered Lightners playing with them in the old days, and I doubt those schoolkids were opening Dark Fountains.
I like the idea that Kris has a super low HP bar in the light world, which gets drained when their soul is out of their body, and the reason they ate the whole pie that night was because it’s a full heal
This would imply that the pie is a magic pie and not a regular pie right? Since monster food in undertale is able to restore health by being made of magic rather than organic ingredients?
9:20, I do want to point out, Kris and Susie spend a lot of time in CastleTown, probably like atleast half an hour canonically. The knight making the fountain while Noelle and berdly were in the room actually works completely. Also for the “coincidence” point, the knight could have motives that involve our main lightner protagonists, specifically wanting our protagonists to be in the dark worlds for some yet unknown purpose. Also, somebody slams the door shut behind Kris and Susie in chapter 1 when they enter the supply closet. This could’ve been the knight, who wanted Kris and Susie to fall into the dark world. 40:23 Another thing I wanna point out, Dess being a human is impossible. Why? Well the Undertale Alarm Clock dialogue mentions that Rudy had two daughters, and in the xbox version of Undertale, Sans mentions "That antlered girl and her big sis". Rudy's daughter could not have been human, she would've been killed for her soul. 49:27 The second voice only sounds like Chara in japanese because it's talking in the same "serious" tone that Chara uses. But you know who else uses that tone in Japanese? Susie when she's pissed off at Kris, and Sans. It isn't Chara exclusive. Also for your point being like "Kris can live just fine without the soul" uhhh no, they can't. It doesn't just "make them slower", they're practically limping. The way Kris is animated without the soul pretty obviously conveys that they're pushing through some kind of pain. Plus the way they react to spamton's demise is very indicative of how unstable they feel without a soul.
Noelle and Birdly would have to be the least observant people in the universe to not notice the knight stepping out of the closet, stabbing the ground, and the room being filled with dark energy. And don't say they didn't notice because they were asleep because that's out of character for both of them. Also the Knight couldn't leave the library at that time thanks to the traffic jam which would limit the knight candidates to Undyne and the Annoying Dog. Also Kris limping without the soul doesn't mean they would literally perish without it it just means they're less mobile than normal which would in no way prevent them from getting to the library. They still seem pretty mobile being able to jump in and out of a window without it, so I'm honestly willing to bet that Kris isn't actually debilitated without the soul at all and just pretends to be weak to convince us otherwise. And it seems to have worked on you.
@@Yuni-is-Schrodingers-Fox i mean there's a possibility that berdly and noelle where knocked out by the knight when they realized that berdly and noelle weren't going anywhere anytime soon
My theory is that the Dark, Large closet is Queen's Basement where Spamton's Neo's suit is. The Closet mentions "Old Electronics" in it, And Spamton Neo is a reference to Mettaton's Body, which is an a part of the "older game" Undertale. Also, it is implied in Deltarune that Neo is concept Art Haptsablok made that never actually got created, but that was "posted on the Internet", similar to the "God of Hyperdeath" being Art Asriel made for a Game. Also, The Suit is supposed to make you Big enough to "See into Heaven", which means if actually worked, Spamtom would [becomed] a Lightner and appear [Big] in the closet.
The basement is basically the computer's recycling bin. When you delete something, it is not completely removed, the deleted memory is simply "unmapped" and the computer treats it as if it was empty for the purposes of writing to it. After beating pacifist NEO, Swatch has some extra information: The basement is filled with "corrupted and forgotten data", exactly what you'd get with unmapped memory. The NEO shape was made by someone who drew it (as said by Swatch) and then was "forgotten" after being left in the computer unattended for a long time, then Spamton merely rescued it. If the file was simply stored like nomral, it wouldn't get corrupted just from lack of use (that's simply not how computers work) The closet may be closer to the alleys that you traverse with noelle, which is where you find Spamton in both routes.
@@ryanergo754 It is Symbolically Literal. The Basement is "Dark' and "Old'. The World of the Darkness , I think. is constructed Unconsciously and based on its Symbolic meaning rather than its physical location in the Light World.
Kris eating the Pie is VERY important as Susie and Toriel wouldn't be baking a new one if the old one was still there, Toriel wouldn't be distracted and she wouldn't go to her car for some extra flour to check on the tires. Kris IS the Knight and they know EXACTLY how this will all play out
Ralsei did send berdly and noelle to sleep. Ralsei has reasons to send noelle and berdly to sleep -ralsei saw berdly try to open a fountain, he does not want more fountains. Telling noelle and berdly its a dream means they are of no risk -ralsei has a lot of knowledge about the lw and has been the instigator of seeing other things (susie’s fight with lancer, noelle + susie’s ferris wheel thing) implying he would know susie told noelle it was a dream. Ralsei trusts susie and will back her up. Also this means noelle isnt a risk Ralsei has the opportunity -ralsei stays behind with noelle and berdly as the fountain closes in the normal route “What about snowgrave” Berdly is frozen chicken, noelle is implied to be going into a deeper darker sleep by queen. In no other instance is someone sleeping after a dark fountain. Kris and susie never do this even in chapter 1.
33:49 oooooh I love when people make really good theories about things that are small but could turn out important in the full game like you just did with the naming sequence getting reactions out of gaster I saw the list again recently and thought it was weird how QC was there but your explanation is soooo good. I've been always liked Kris Knight but this theory uses it to connect so many small things that literally could all be coincidences or could be the best foreshadowing in the world, and I love that.
I am SO HAPPY someone FINALLY said that the closet dialogue saying that "A large person could fit inside" doesn't mean it's talking about the knight, it has bothered me for YEARS that people use that as evidence.
My hate when people put Kris in like the “impossible” tier for Kris being the knight. When Kris is the only person we actually saw make a fountain and has by far the most evidence both psychologically and actually to being the knight.
Noelle talking to Rudy about falling asleep in the Weird Route isn't evidence against Kris Knight, IMO. Noelle is clearly rationalising what happened, coming up with the only explanation that she can think of that doesn't require her to believe that she actually turned into an ice mage and killed a bunch of people. She isn't describing what actually happened, she's describing what she thinks MUST have happened because she can't/doesn't want to consider any other possibility.
Here are some pre-watch thoughts: if we're going based on chess theory, there could also be two knights. Two knights that are both opening fountains, one darkner, one lightner, and maybe you can have two different play throughs where they independently are the cause of the roaring depending on which route you take. The darkner knight couldve opened the classroom fountain. i don't think alvin or papyrus are the knight (or maybe they could be, i dont know!! Theres red herrings everywhere wtf!!), and i rather think its more likely to be a fella we haven't seen, or just gaster. I will update this with more thoughts as i watch the video. Edit 1, at 5:53: this is actually unrelated to the kris is the knight theory, but, i feel like we havent examined the similarities between kris and chara enough. i feel like its entirely plausible that they are the exact same character, but just in a separate universe, They both have green and yellow shirts, they are both capable of being spooky scary, they both grew up with asriel, they are both human, they both were taken in by the dreemurr family, knives, butterscotch cinnamon pie lover, and if you were to analyze both their characters as a whole and how they were adopted by the dreemurr family, it could point to them possibly having a really not good and potentially abusive human family. We are witnessing the story of kris but if them and asriel werent killed by the humans. And maybe if the humans are underground instead idk we'll find out!!!! We have no idea we're at chapter 2 of 7!!! Edit 2, at 10:11: this is more of a point to the 2 knights theory i made, but its entirely possible that kris didn't even open the pc lab fountain, and i think both kris opening the fountain at the end of chapter 2 and kris being pulling out their soul in the chapter 1 ending are both a bit of a red herring for the first 2 fountains. We get told how fountains are made by queen at the end of chapter 2, and its possible thats the first time kris even heard about such a thing. Bestie probably went. "Woah i can do it myself???? Nice, now i can have even more cool adventures with my friends, and i don't have to worry about waiting for another fountain to open." Its also quite likely kris can only go so far when the soul is out of their body, we've only seen them go around the general premise of their house and possibly yard and they are so slow. The school and library are on the other side of town, driving distance even as seen when toriel gives us a ride. i don't think kris couldve reasonably reached the library without at least being seen by neighbors and been caught. Edit 3, 15:36: (Definetly shouldve watched at least 5 more minutes before i commented that last part cuz u just mentioned the librarby and made a reason against the kris being sus all the way to the library, even though it was kinda a joke. but thats ok, because i feel theres room for both these theories, and we dont really even have the evidence to properly gauge whether kris did the first two fountains or not) Edit 4, 23:53: I SHOULDVE WATCHED BEFORE I SAID ANYTHING GRAAAAH Edit 5, 32:52: I actually have reason to think that the dark world we'll visit after toriels house is the church. rudy mentions possibly going there tomorrow in chapter 2, and we know thats saturday because alphys says theres no school tomorrow in the same chapter, so it'd probably be a rudy (and maybe noel) only church visit because church is on sundays! so it'll be very empty i'd think. gerson too, spooky ghost gerson(canon pending) will be there. also, rudy has SO many death flags, so i think noel will open the dark world in the hospital when rudy is really really sick and is either about to die, or is already dead, because she desperately wants to save her dad. i wont say how i think that ends up because i think its more fun that way, but i do have an idea lmao. it also could be some rpg maker horror game esque blood stained hospital type dark world, and i think that sounds so fucking cool and i hope its like that. i think it'll be probably one or more dark worlds after the church too. lore dump dark world imo, gerson knew a lot in undertale, i'd assume the same in deltarune. Edit 6, 33:55: would you believe me if i told you theres evidence for papyrus being the man behind the tree (i dont know how. to feel about it and it could be a red herring, but hear me out at least because this is blatant) so! fangamer am i right. i need you to go to the undertale collection on their site and open up the page for the underground garden skirt. its a skirt that looks like if you merged the vibes of waterfall and the ruins. and a lot. of trees with red leaves and purplish bark. now, click on the 3 image of the skirt, it should be a close up of the pattern with toriel, the ruins door, flowey, and papyrus, ecstatic as always, peaking out from behind.. a red.. tree. now if thats not direct parallel to the man behind the tree i dont know what is. HalfBreadChaos made a great video that goes over this and also the eggs, its called "Who is the Man with the Egg in Deltarune", you should go watch all of their videos actually because they have some great theories and thoughts on deltarune. i personally recommend "What is the Nightmare in the Shadow of the Knight's Hand?" because it has some very interesting ideas about what ice-e's deal even is. Edit 7, 41:56: (you know about halfbread already i see sihfbgihbg, my point about checking them out still stands for those who havent seen any of their vids!!!!!!) Edit 8, 49:41: pointing screaming pointing screaming!!! because this is also a possibility!! they could also be a fusion of chara and frisk AU style!!!!! i like that too!!!! because even though (everything i said before about parallels between chara and kris), we are still playing as kris during a time where asriel is not here right now (he will come back, maybe), where toriel and asgore are divorced, they are having their soul controlled, and maybe even more things that directly parallel frisk. i also would like to mention that the ending of chapter 1 where kris gets all funky spooky without their soul is very very similar to the post genocide pacifist route ending where chara takes control of frisk. theres pie in both scenes too. kinda. (note that both of these scenes are where you are no longer in control of the characters, kris removes the soul, and frisk is just. free from control now because the credits rolled and they experienced a portion of time without our influence. how else did they get into tori's house.) Edit 9, 51:33: "I'm feeling evil, think i'll kill them all..." Edit 10, 1:03:21: i forgot about the kris being eepy come chapter 2 thing, that is a really good point. Edit 11, final thoughts: this is a banger video. i agree with the reasons you presented why people may not want kris to be the knight, and that even is kris is the knight, they are by no means evil. i dont think any character in these games are truly evil actually, they are all nuanced and have valid reasons for doing things and even if they do something ""bad"", it's not reflective of their character as a whole. its a flaw, and everyone has flaws, and toby fox has so far represented this idea in such a compelling way both in UT and DR. these are games about breaking down the "good vs bad" ideology that permeates through a lot of life, especially in america which just so happens to be a good chunk of the major player base. theres a number of people in this community who have trouble grasping and applying the themes of toby's games to what they do in life, but god damn i learned anything from anything ever about UT and DR its that people are flawed and do stupid things sometimes and thats ok. You can still be kind to people who do stupid things. and also that the closet is a closet and likely not knight related :]
In "undertale winter alarm clock", Noelle and Dess are referenced. Meaning that they exist in the underground of undertale which wouldn't make sense if Dess was human.
Yup. A gaping hole in the theory. You'd have to make a whole new megatheory about how either: A) Dess was to be raised in secret, sheltered from the rest of the Underground. B) Dess was to always wear a monster costume when going out. C) Both of the above. D) Some other concealment methods were to be in use. The most gaping question though, is what would have excused her from being pulled into the Determination Experiments. You could technically say that due to the strong friendship between the Holidays and Asgore, Asgore would have had the authority to excuse Dess. But pressure from the citizens of the Underground would come anyway, wouldn't it? Here, again, this could work if Dess were to pretend to be a monster when out in public, and only the Holidays (and perhaps also the Dreemurrs) were to know about her being a human.
This was incredible, thank you sooo so much for enabling my deltarune obsession, this was a concise and wonderful way to organize a lot of different ideas and some of my favorite theories, too, and i loved your take on things. good luck, and i look forward to more videos from you if you keep it up!!!
Thank you! 🙏 I would love to do more but it really depends on whenever there's enough interesting things to speculate about the closer we get to the end of the game or if people will believe in something I find silly enough for me to make a 1 hour video correcting it. The closer we get the more obvious what it'll go for will be clear. Maybe I'm just thinking this way because I'm too confident lol. Unrelated from Deltarune tho I have had a couple of video ideas. Did a video showcasing mashups so I thought a video about trying to showcase other hobbies I started doing at points.
About revealing Kris is the knight so early and people saying "Toby Fox wouldn't do this", OH REALLY?? It's not like he literally revealed that Ralsei Looks like Asriel ON THE VERY FIRST CHAPTER. That seems like a big important twist for me. Sure, there's also the anagram, but revealing his face so early? I've already seen people talking how that also was too soon, to me it seems like it might be a pattern of revealing big things at the end of every chapter.
thank you thank you thank you This dumb closet is such a crutch argument to so many theories that i honestly wounder why some random other elements don't get picked apart more often? For example (DID the knight also make a traffic jam just to trap kris and susie in the dark world) this is way to stupid to consider but because it exists i can make that case. Unfortunately the truth has only one answer and i think its clear to all that the closet is used to hid berdly in snow grave AND NOTHING MORE. Giving it a multi purpose ignores so much other evidence that i question its popularity. Is it just more fun to simplify it or is it impossible to think creative knight alternatives without it? Personally i believe that some knight activity is Kris's fault but most other KNIGHT activity is Dess holiday trapped in the code opening up dark worlds (somehow) to try and build a bridge of darkness to escape the void and get back home. My evidence is thin but i believe this is perfect motive for the knights decisions. Dark fountains are powerful magic and every time we seal the fountain we are transported back home. Everything else from the dreamlike wonderlands to the apocalyptic Roaring are just byproducts to a very simple, very despite plan. I don't know if the knight knows what they are doing but if your "Determined" enough Freedom might just be worth destroying a world. TL;DR if their was no closet people would assume someone was hiding in the TRASH BIN just to counter the kris is the knight theory.
Even taking the game over screen as saying the world fell into darkness as completely straightforward, there’s a very obvious counterpoint to anyone saying that disproves Kris-as-knight: you can only die in a dark world. Which means dying stops it from being sealed. Which supposedly covers the world in darkness. It’d still be able to happen from then on even if another fountain was never made again. Been crazy to me all these years seeing the fandom gaslight itself into believing we didn’t straight up watch the Ch 2 ending reveal the knight to us. Haven’t heard a single theory even a fraction as interesting or compelling. Do people just really not like the idea of Kris doing things that run counter to the player or something?
No, the world is covered in darkness if too many fountains are opened, which would cause the light to darkness ratio to shift too much (the intro talks about this balance quite a bit) But so far, 2 fountains are perfectly sustainable.
I think rather than showing a timeloop, the shadow crystals show a reality in which you don't exist. This makes a lot of sense if Kris is the Knight, when using the crystals in dark worlds that the Knight created, you see that they don't exist. If this is a reality where you don't exist, then that means without Kris the fountains would never exist which points to them being the Knight. You see Susie with a cold expression because she never went through her growth in Chapter 1, the closet dark world is unchanged because Kris didn't make it, and you see through Kris' hand because Kris wouldn't exist. I just don't see how seeing through Kris' hand connects to the timeloop thing. I don't really agree with the player angel theory either, since it doesn't really make sense for the player to have been the angel in Undertale. The angel is said to have seen the surface, which makes sense if the angel is Asriel or Chara, but the player doesn't have to see the surface at all in Undertale so you can't be the angel. I think this is gonna be the same case in Deltarune, that the player isn't the angel.
I think it really depends on where toby wants to go with the story, which we arent super sure yet. That said, this is very well puttogether and i can see it as a possibility. but i dont trust stories like that (?) Pffff, narratively it really feels like a misdirection, a red herring. So im at a "wait and see" point of this journey, this is the more solid proof for kris knight ive seen tho, beautifully executed
"Is it not obvious?" *That's the problem. It's TOO obvious* To be fair I think Kris is the knight, but I understand that there's a margin of error, and I don't mean a 1% margin of error to a 101% calculation But yeah if Kris isn't the knight, it's because Toby's pulling a "Eyyyy you thought all those hints meant anything nah I was just messing with you" like Scott Cawthon Multiple Knights theory: I could see Noelle and Susie doing it once or twice After all, Susie IS considered "A dark knight who uses Rude energy to attack" I could absolutely see a "Oh yeah? Well I know REAL magic!" sort of deal lol And then Ralsei is going to be mad at Susie for like... half a chapter until he inevitably forgives her so long as she promises not to do it again *Omg maybe that's when Susie will actually have a good healing move bc Catti will teach it to her* 43:38 ... Wait a second. *uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhHHHHHH* "You can't understand how this feels, knowing that at any moment, without warning, it could all be reset" *uHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH* "Sans might be a darkner" (Or could have just seen the Roaring happen) *UHHHHHHHHHHHHH* *YOU MIGHT BE R I G H T* Ironically... That's how I felt about the OG Ribbit mod. *_[SPOILER ALERT start!]_* Ribbit is a mod for deltarune with, spoiler alert, no happy endings. At least, the first time you play it. There's a joke ending where Ralsei dies and you just own a shoe store for the rest of your life, and there's a "Good" ending where a special power is used to "Delete" the mod in game/canon, but other than that... Once you step into that dark world, it's over for you. I always thought it was... poetic, you know? Despite all the happy parts of the silly/serious journey, it always ended... badly. It feels kind of like the reset roaring theory. And just like how I can see the Reset Roaring theory going... There's... one way out of it all. There's one hidden path you can take to escape from it all... And it frees everyone. And you know what? It's also an ending I like. *_[SPOILER ALERT end!]_* tl;dr, play the Ribbit mod, it's kind of like the theory and it's just for Chapter 1 and the Survey Program version of the mod Play it. Play it. Play it. Play it. Play it. Play it. Play it. Play it. *P L A Y I T .* Anyways, moving on lol
Being too obvious is not proper reasoning, specially for an early reveal. It does not matter who is the knight, there are bigger mysteries at play in the story than "who opened the fountain?" This is like saying "Toriel can't be Asgore's wife, it is too obvious" Yeah, so what? It is obvious because it is not that important AND it is necessary to reveal it early for it to connect to a later plot point.
@@rompevuevitos222 Yet the evidence for Toriel being queen before hearing it outright is much more concrete. With this one, there has been controversy and questions have been brought up over it because it's not 100% assured yet. Rather it's been 97% assured and everyone is going to be furious at Toby for pulling a fast one on us if that 3% is correct like I said in the rest of my comment There's literally a Multiple Knights theory IN THE VIDEO. It could be a completely new character. Now even I think that's complete bull but it's not _impossible_ *It's not an argument I believe I can win, nor do I believe in it, for the record, just like I said in my comment* But if Toby pulls the fastest one on us we've ever seen, that's how. This is for Understanding's sake
For me... that bunker... that was were Dess dissapeared, and it somehow happened while Kris was around or because of Kis, probably none of the police officers would believe Kris that a "dark fountain" appeared and consumed Dess, so maybe this is their weird way of showing undyne that THIS exists, and that's why there's a dialogue with the option to tell her, because Kris WANTS undyne to know that this was what happened to Dess!
Gonna be a long reply, but i agree with the closet part. The whole closet thing always makes me roll my eyes. I really dont think its related to the knight at all. Its clearly just a morbid detail for the weird route to realistically hide birdly so that the main story could believably continue the same. Regardless if you went weird route or normally. Also like you say. If someone made the fountain while noelle and birdly was there. How the hell did they not notice the loud sound of the foutain being made and the slow fill up of darkness. And then not mention any of that at all if they did experience it? Makes zero sense. If they saw scary darkness approuching. Birdly would for sure run from it. Noelle could be scared stiff, but not birdly. On other point. I also kinda like the theory of the time loop. Not all of the Jaru theory needs to be correct, but the time loop would be sick.
I agree with some of this... but not with other parts. I respect the grind tho. I agree that i think Kris is the night, but some of the further propositions seem like a bit of a reach
The Knight goes to the library and hides in the closet --> Noelle and Berdly walk in and fall asleep --> Knight opens the fountain and leaves. That's what the game implies happened. You don't even really address the closet lol, you just say it's bad because.. you don't like it?? It's a very specific line, Berdly isn't a large person but would even be the point in hiding his corpse, Queen isn't a person she is a laptop, there's no one it could be referring to outside of the Knight. We do know Noelle and Berdly fell asleep because Noelle says so in the weird route dialogue with Rudy. I don't understand what your argument against this was lol, she literally admitted it. Kris and Susie and Susie literally jumped in so they would still in front of the door lol, they didn't arbitrarily end up to the other side of the room.
There is 0 proof that the knight "hid" in the closet nor is there any relevant plot regarding the closet. The closest thing to "relevance" is that Kris points out that someone could fit inside, in which case it just makes it even more likely that it was him. The knight could have perfectly well had opened the fountain and fled before it spread, since it takes some time for it to form a dark world.
@@rompevuevitos222 Not the "closest thing" to relevance, just relevance. "A large person could easily fit inside". It can't be referring to Berdly since he's not a large person and since there would be no point in hiding him, he's a monster and narrative wise it's obvious he'll be found. Can't be Queen because she's a laptop. Can't be Kris or Noelle because they're not large (CH2 literally makes a joke about Kris being small). Can't be Susie because why the hell. The only other person that we know has been in the Computer Lab is the Knight so it's them. Kris didn't point anything out, they don't talk, the narrator isn't Kris. Yeah the Knight ran away that's my point.
@@Quinhala11Again, a simple line of text saying that doesn't mean anything. "Someone large can fit", that's all it says. Not that someone entered it or plans on entering it. That part is made up by you. Because if we're making stuff up, it could also mean a variety of things. Maybe Kris saw someone enter the closet in the past. Maybe he was stuffed in there before.
I do address the closet. I mention what other meanings it could have, and why the fountain had to have been made earlier. The Sweet Cap'n Cakes dialogue. If a character known for gaslighting themselves gaslights themselves into thinking they didn't murder a person then why would it be impossible if they gaslight themselves into thinking they fell asleep? The fact that they say that they fell asleep specifically in the weird route, the route where Noelle tries their best to forget about the dark world because of their experience, shows that she might not have fallen asleep at all. That was the point I tried to make.
I'm coming into the video from a stance of skepticism. I'll listen to you and make notes but if I see a contradiction I'll point it out. First of all I doubt Kris is the Knight because in the original animated Intro it was planned for The Fun Gang to ascend a staircase with the silhouettes of all the bosses, with the Knight on the top in front of a doorway. I doubt we would get Kris seeing themselves in said intro. Now let us see the video. 13:20 Contradiction: It's important to think about WHY they move slower. We know a few things from Undertale that we have no reason to doubt right now. One is that Human Souls generate Determination. We also know that Soulless essence is animated by injecting Determination into the body that contains it. By oppossition, without DT, said essence is unable to move or think. While Humans wouldn't lose cohesion like hopeless and will-less monsters do, it's likelythat they would be unable to move or have enough drive to even move their heads after a while. Souls work by spreading DT and Magic throughout the owner's body (as stated in the library texts) like how a Heart works. When you remove a soul, that DT in circulation doesn't disappear, but slowly get consumed. But unlike Flowey, who had industrial amounts injected into him, Kris only has leftovers. If Flowey has 2 gallon jugs of cool water in the desert of existance, Kris has the condensation outside a frozen water bottle. Furthermore, since DT is used to make the Fountains, Soulless!Kris has a short time to live. We see that when they have to put the soul in immediately after. They probably look at Susie to extend their DT reserves before spending them. I don't think they could open more from the middle of a dark world many blocks away. And that's just one argument, I could go on with UT soul mechanics. 16:52 I won't get into fountain mechanics but both the Alternate Determinism World and Last Thursdayism interpretations account for this and King's extended consciousness 20:58 BRO I GOT SO READ! COUNTERPUNCH! AAAAARRGGG! Hilarious. Ok, I'm sorry for not watching through before making my comments but I have really shit memory. Especially on busy videos like these. I'm sorry, I'm sure you did A LOT of research. I might even get convinced. 21:34 Well I wonder if the Knight factors into the ending, because if so it would have to be set in stone since at least 2012. Of course, I'm inclined to use it because Toby tends to leave very important things unused. For example, the book that explains "Falling Down" and monster essence in Dust (which is still relevant in DR with Gerson's Hammer), both of which factor into the True Lab section of the story. Another example would be Alphys' Entry 17. I wouldn't discount it so fast. 24:44 I was unaware. Very interesting. I could have sworn that Chapter One explained that the Knight beat the King's forcer or at least the King in single combat. It seems I was wrong 43:42 The problem is that Ralsei is plotting with Kris behind our backs if what you say is true. I thought he was either planning to help Kris rebel, or (more likely), reassure Kris that they should not fight us so we can save the world and they'd still get their freedom next week. If Kris was the Knight and Ralsei was Already a SCH, that could cause issues with both characters, and Ralsei stops a fountain from forming, which seems to contradict The Knight's plan, unless you claim that each fountain needs to happen at a specific time or place 44:37 The same convo happens in chapter 1 1:01:23 I love the joke/quantum physics book
47:19 expanding on the idea of the player being the Angel for a sec- bc I agree but I reached the conclusion a slightly different way, that I feel is worth emphasizing It's to do with the phrase "the Angel's heaven". See, the more Dark Fountains there are, the more cool escapist fun we as players have to play. Now think about the Roaring- when the balance tips into the favor of that darkness. What's heaven to a game's player? A game that never ends.
This video is so well put together, my dude! This has honestly convinced me that Kris knight is the simplest option. Obviously that still leaves the same question with every other candidate of why they’re doing this, which is probably the more important question but it’s much harder to speculate about.
Hey great video, even if I don't agree with Kris being the knight, you brought up some very interasting thing that I never considered, like there being more to intros of the game! All in all, great video even I don't agree with everything
I loved seeing the JaruJaru note regarding the whole queen speech I always found it funny how he twists stuff around in the weirdest ways to fit his theories
Imma have to rewatch this video cuz I woke up to the end of it like “Oh yeah, this guy whoever they are, are speaking facts” Then I read the comments and I’m getting so confused like why is the closet not evidence anymore??? Edit: Took me 4 days but I finally came back to the video to edit this and say… why the hell did I care? Who cares what people’s thoughts and theories are, sure I may not get why some parts are and aren’t considered to be useable as evidence in this video but that’s fine that’s the creator’s opinion that doesn’t have to be yours… hell who’s gonna read this anyways I don’t even know why I’m editing this. Ig future me or any random passerby strangers reading this and is confused and upset as I was about the video. You don’t have to care, you’re free to think and believe your own theories no matter what a person’s saying (unless it’s weird and problematic, then you should probably rethink your personal theory/headcanon) Alright I’mma stop yapping and get some sleep its fricking 3am where I am
29:05, Queen saying anyone can make a dark fountain is her theory, the line is "Could Not Anyone Make A Dark Fountain?", she was theorising, not stating a fact.
Ok, i doubt youll see this. But i think kris opened the door so the police would come inside and enter the dark world. Perhaps Kris wants the police to know the dark worlds are real and to be looking for the knight. Which wouldnt make sense if they themselves are the knight. Additionally, i dont not think kris is the knight. Mainly because it would sort of make more sense for Us to to be the knight as in the vessel we created which we thought had been discarded turning out to be the knight.
6:03 i think kris opening the door doesn’t have to mean anything sinister, imo dark worlds start to form after you close a door (e.g the closet door being shut when kris abd susie fall and the door to the cyber world being closed when you go to the library) 9:51 also the closet is literally just a reference to giga queen lol 14:47 kris could’ve used the wagon to bring the soul with them so y’know if they started dying they could easily put the soul back in 16:16 do we have evidence of ralsei knowing the identity of the knight? because if we don’t then that can just be explained as him not knowing but if he does know then it’d be pretty in character for him not to say anything, he’s a very big pushover and wants to do anything to make the lightners happy, also ralsei seems like he knows what’s about to happen who knows, maybe in ralsei and kris’s private talks they’re discussing what to do next 19:21 honestly the books are such a minuscule and insignificant detail that i don’t think it even matters that much 23:07 i’d say the use of they/it pronouns are more so just to keep the identity ambiguous 28:56 oh i actually like this idea a lot i never considered it but you just made me realise how that could be foreshadowing susie and noelle creating a fountain 39:27 and also the secret bosses are stuff you have to actively search for… waow 45:16 funny how ralsei is someone who wants to stick to the script but only with noelle can you break the script idk something to think abt 50:18 my opinion about noelle angel is that she is an angel symbolically speaking but i don’t think she’s the literal angel at least not in the normal route, i definitely can picture her becoming an angel in the weird route because if the angel is meant to be a god like figure then i think it’s possible we are building up noelle to be that god like the weird route is about becoming more stronger so you can be able to do things that were never possible (like you’re literally breaking the game) so maybe noelle becomes the angel who knows 53:24 i don’t think the player will be seen as bad idk i think there will be a moment at the end of the game being like “hey, why am i getting banished? this is bs!” bc i think deltarune WILL pay a lot of attention to our choices and if that all surmounts to “you’re getting banished lol none of it mattered in the end” i can’t imagine that ending in a way without being unsatisfying 58:36 i hate this argument ITS CALLED DRAMATIC IRONY also people acting like kris being the knight would immediately solve all the mysteries surrounding them like no we still don’t know what their motivations are
13:43 This is stupid. If skipping dialogue skips what the person is saying then it also skips any movements that usually take longer if you are reading it. Like if you never proceed from a dialogue box then the characters arent really just staring at eachother for weeks. The world is just frozen. So when we skip Susies and Toriels dialogue we also skip Kris's movements
The idea that the fountain was made after Noelle and Berdly first entered the computer lab is really weird. Why? Does the knight have a reason to bring lightners to the dark world? Did they want to bring Berdly and Noelle to the dark world specifically?
It would be cool if a version of Gerson appeared in a Dark World that includes a copy of "Lord of the Hammer" as a part of it. It wouldn't be the real man but a fictionalised version of him merged with his own characters and world that he created, possibly based off other people's memories of him as well. In some ways that would make him just like Toby Fox's "Annoying Dog" avatar. Perhaps Kris' reaction to the first Dark World we see is because it's one made of pure Darkness. If they can sense that somehow, then they could be surprised by it even if they have experienced Dark Worlds before. Judging from that Sans speech about "the antlered girl and her big sis" from the Xbox version of UNDERTALE, then Dess most likely has a direct parallel in that world as well. If Dess was a human in UNDERTALE then she would've been hunted down and killed for her Soul a long time ago, and there's no other known Monster who has a human version as their DELTARUNE equivalent, so I don't see why Dess would be any different. This is definitely a good breakdown of Knight Kris evidence and I agree with most of your interpretations, including your little "Total Perspective Vortex" moment near the end!
@@ShirubaGin Thanks to you too! Funnily enough, I made up most of it as I was typing out the comment. I guess Gerson would approve of finding inspiration in unlikely places though!
i want to point out that if you skip chapter 1, one of the actions that will be made for you, is talking to undyne about the dark worlds. one interpretation of that is kris themselves does want undyne to know about the dark fountains. This info doesn't change anything, you did say she was a part of kris's plan, but i thought you'd might find it interesting.
18:45 Wait. You're right. That means it CANT be Kris, Suzie, Noelle or Burghley. Noelle and Berb are SITTING DOWN. They must have been sitting down when the dark world was made. Kris and Suzie came in AFTER it was made, so they were at the door. Whoever the knight is, was in the closet. In my mind, that's confirmed.
Okay but I did go further with the idea in this. There's multiple knights / there is no "knight". Anyone that makes a fountain is the knight of that world. Kris just happened to be the one that made the C1, C2 and C3 fountains.
Did you know that evidence points towards Kris manipulting things even before chapter 1. They more than likely told everyone they wouldnt be coming to school that day, which causes monster kid to not wait to become partners with Kris. This effectively steals away the option to become MKs partner and forces Kris to become partners with susie. I can explain in greater depth later, but the gist of it is that it does not make sense for alphys and the entire class to write Kris off as a no show that early.
@@ShirubaGin but kris DOES manipulate people, did you not notice? For example, when Kris slashed the tires, they made sure to have toriel catch just a tiny sight of them, so she would check outside (when she tells susie she forgot the sugar in the car, thats just an excuse to go check outside, because earlier Susie notices that Toriel is sneaking sugar right out of the bag.) Kris LITERALLY intended for Toriel to see them prowling so that she would check the car. Thats very clear manipulation. Also, dont you findit a bit odd that the remote was in the first place susie looked? And just to let you know, the remote was dusty. But objects dont get dusty if they are tucked away somewhere. The remote would have to get left out for a long time to get dusty and then get put between the cushions. This more than likely means that the remote was hidden intentionally, given how Kris clearly prepared for the sleepover way ahead of time by eating the pie amd plugging in the tv.
@@krazyivan9733 that's true. When people talk about the knight they talk about how they're manipulating the darkners by going into the dark worlds, but I talk about how that isn't the case. Kris hasn't manipulated the dark worlds before entering them with Susie and friends, but they are absolutely manipulating people in the light world.
i dont necessarily agree that Kris is the Knight but i agree with a lot of your counterarguments. the closet is stupid, the hand of the night thing is stupid (god jaru is illiterate,) and Noelle and Berdly's position in the library is so stupid. Kris may or may not be the knight, but none of those things point either direction imo
The weird thing about the Library Fountain that goes against ANY character being the Knight that was the one to open that Fountain is this: Burghley and Noelle were conscious when the Fountain was made (this being made evident by their books being open once they woke up after THE HOLY). _Why don't they remember who the Knight was? Or even think to bring it up??_ Berdly not bringing up the Knight would be... acceptable in this case, seeing as he functionally fills the Lancer's "butt-of-the-joke character" role of CH 2, but *Noelle* saying *nothing* about the Knight is _incredibly weird._ Mainly due to Queen's insistence that she be the *next* one. She could have, at *any* time, said "actually the Knight is still alive and here's who it is" but she DOESN'T. It's just so _strange_
In "undertale winter alarm clock", Noelle and Dess are referenced. Meaning that they exist in the underground of undertale which wouldn't make sense if Dess was human.
I don’t agree with the pie thing being just a joke, even if you think thats all the pie part is we still get important info like how the soul and Kris are separate. You can’t really use the structure argument with only 2 examples and one is based of speculation what if the structure is every chapter starts with a joke and it was a gas leak. Everything Kris does to set up opening the fountain at the end of chapter 2 is good evidence against kris learning how to open the fountains from queen, although it’s very strange how they know exactly what to do to my theory is some one told them what steps to take. It says a large person could fit in the closet not that there is a large person in it so probably not queen mech or spamton neo and I don’t really understand how the cyber city relates to a large person and berdly is obviously not a large person, why specifically mention large. Lets say kris did break into the library somehow why would berdly and Noelle go into this supernatural dark room and put their notebooks on the table opposed to they go in put their notebooks down and while their backs are turned the night comes out of the closet opens a dark fountain they probably get surprised by it and before they know it they are in the dark world. Why would Ralsei not want us to worry about the end of the world that makes no sense. Still a nice video
thought that came to me in the last quarter of the video: all videogame stories are just timeloops. the characters experience everything for the first time, regardless of how many hundreds of playthroughs we do. and yet, when we as players replay the game, we don't lose our knowledge of what came before, we keep our skill and sometimes even all our loot in the case of a new game plus. these characters become masters of their world at the same time they look upon it for the first time. basically, our place in the story of deltarune is as a guide. idk, definitely needs to cook more
i had no idea u made actual videos besides ytpmvs nonetheless this is great and I see u applied some of those skills to this long form type of video really well
Damn, how the hell did i not notice this before, but the concept of 'Long Hand' being an expression of the Knight's power and influence is very convincing considering that's what the Knight literally is, a God-like figure that is able to influence Dark World through the fountains.
at some point in the spamton fight, he says "YOU'VE BEEN [making) HAVEN'T YOU?" which sounds a lot like what queen said about the knight "making". as if "making" refers to opening a fountain, meaning spamton DOES recognize kris as a/the knight
a great piece of obscure evidence as to kris having planned things all along is the changed sink text at the beginning of chapter 2 "It is not yet time to wash your hands." also while i agree with everything else in the video i still cannot fathom how people dont realize the reason specifically kris susie and noelle get special dialogue for the character creator is because theyre the only ones with common real life names, thats literally it, its why the voice even says "YOU ARE ABOUT TO MEET SOMEONE VERY SPECIAL." The part where you went off with the rest of the names being the ones who enter the dark worlds... that is kinda super stretching, they are all relevant npcs and that is the reason why The rest is either because they arent significant enough or because their names are too long for the creator (Pizzapants)
Something most wonder is, how could he create the dark fountains if we see them most of the time? Well, I have the belief that perhaps, dark worlds take time to generate, for example in chapter one, when we go into the closet and we find a very, very dark room, which means that it was just being generated, which means that the story that ralsei tells us was also generated a few moments ago, but that it still mentions that another fountain was generated in the next room, which means that it was also generated recently, but how? Because dark worlds take time to generate, not fountains, worlds
I think Kris opening the door still makes sense if they're not the knight. They know the police are stopping by, and they could have opened the dark fountain so that the police would see the dark world firsthand and actually believe them about it
I'll admit, I had low expectations from this video, but i was pretty impressed by you, i'm gonna watch more from you. As for the theory itself, i think your point about the multiple knights thing will depend on chapter 3. depending on how the darkners talk about Kris and the knight in the third dark world could give us a lot of context about how the knight works. for instance if the chapter three villain talks about the knight like they met them but doesn't recognize Kris as said knight (like King and Queen did) then Kris knight could be incredibly believable. but if they recognize Kris as the knight, or don't mention a knight at all, it makes this theory a lot less plausible basically chapter three likely will completely debunk or prove Kris as the knight. maybe this was obvious to everyone else, but i wouldn't have realised without this video, so great job
I know. Even then if Kris gets called the knight then that immediately confirm they made the card kingdom or the cyber world considering the fountain can affect darkners' behavior like with King and Queen.
the editing in this is crazy!!!! really enjoyed this one u were super clear and entertaining throughout!! i was super surprised when i saw the view and subscriber count!! crazy underrated stuff here i hope it makes it big!!
you and i are shaking hands in the face of one thousand wrong people right now. you and me and every other person who knows kris is the knight against the world
@@leritykay8911 that's probably because i was being purposefully exaggerative in a figurative language technique known as "hyperbole" in order to make a "joke"
If the timeloop theory is correct, I'd love to have a Bravely Default sorta thing happen where you have to play a few times to get the real story/endings. Not as awful as 6 full playthroughs, maybe a playthrough for each save file, with some little differences after the first to show it's not just a fool's errand. Though whatever happens, I'm sure it'll be amazing.
Ralsei tells us that the fountain was made while we were in control of Kris and Susie. He says he only sensed it after we entered. So unless ralsei is also working for the knight....
i love outlandish theories because theyre like speculative fanfiction for people with fandom brainrot. it's also really funny when the crackpot theories accidentally guess weird foreshadowing correctly
Honestly im not even gonna lie I’m not a Kris Knight truther but u have got some stuff cooking here hang on i need to rewatch this video at least 7 times and then I’ll be able to reform my opinion on the theory see u in 3 days
To start off before my 3 day reply i will simply lay out my thoughts : i didnt think Kris created the first two fountains, and due to Kris creating the 3rd fountain no matter what at the end of ch 3 (aka fun adventure time vs gaslighty murder spree with the bestie) i assumed their motivation was the same no matter what, to draw Undyne/police awareness of the fountains by leaving the door open and to also draw attention to their “unusual behaviour” aka actually being possessed by some soul being thing. I dont think Kris is soulless, I think we command their soul. I think that abt sums it up! Am excited to have my mind changed/am open to new perspectives 🎉
40:19 That can’t be true. Noelle and Dess counterparts exist in Undertale (Sans mentions an “antlered girl and her sister”) and if Dess was a human, you bet your ass Papyrus or Undyne would’ve captured her by now
imagine if you played undertale and flowey was actually just an echo flower who was being puppeted by, like, the nice cream guy or something. that's what anti krighters want.
