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i want too know about the manifestation of the leeds devil aka jd ,the manifestation i believe is the negative energy that has been poured into the land from the tragic story surrounding the views on a deformed child which was swarm too be the devil by un educated quakers at the time of the 13th child genociss. and through centries of negative energy conjuring up the malevilant sprite none now as the jersy devil! this manifestation has never killed a human due too laws in place which every living soul abides by,evrn demons as demons mostly if not all feed on fear not flesh in the realm of the living,and fear through spoken word makes it stronger enabling the manifestation time and time again!
I feel like Orcus beginning as a mortal man onto lichdom & then demonic is quite plausible. I wish I could say that fifth age Dragon Lance touches on this....
You know what I really like about these videos? You do research. You admit it when things are unclear or if you don't know something. Keep up the great work!
One hundred percent agree. Watching his playlist in an almost continues fashion I've been seeing some of the inconsistencies in the FR lore but he points them out as well. Jorphdan you are doing great work I wish you all the best for your channel. I've even told my D&D group about you as they don't know anything about FR history!
Well, I am bit late, but I feel like The Lady of Spiders (I know, her title is The Spider Queen) Lolth should be mentioned. Her lair (or layer), the Demonweb Pits, are a part of the Abyss, at least as far as 5E and Drizzt books go. I do not know whether she is considered a prince/princess, but she is very powerfull. This is mostly personal, as most of my "stories" deal with the Drow Elves a lot.
She just so happens to be one I know a thing or two about. I will be cheking some of your other videos on things I am NOT so familiar with. I need/want ALL the lore for my games/books. Btw, that was quite a quick response, i dod not expect that. Well, it is 4 in the morning here, so that is that. :D sub
Seems there is a follower of the Demon Lords who disliked this video (?) As for Orcus, he was retconned to originally being a primordial in 4e. Before 4e, it was they said: he was a mortal and that stuff.
Hey Jorphdan, just wanted to say thanks for what you do here. Your content is helping an old gamer like me, who's been out of it for years, get back into the game with friends who are new. Keep up the good work man!
Thank you for posting the books you found this material in, since a lot of people don't do it and it helps those who actually want to get these books to learn about the subject in more detail.
Dagon is pronounced "Day-Gon", from Lovecraft influence. Love the videos. They're helping me learn so I get a bigger picture of the world and they're short.
Actually, Lovecraft didn't invent Dagon. He named it after an ancient Babylonian/Mesopotamian god of the Sea/Fish whose name was Dagon. He is represented as a man with a mermaid-esque body and a hat that looks like a fish in many depictions (Some actually argue that this is the origin of the Catholic Pope's hat. The "Mitre of Dagon".)
I know this video is somewhat old but I am thingking of an end of the world with all the demon lords teaming up under the rule of Orcus wich causes them to slay asmodeus and win the blood war. Orcus becomes a deity and lords over the demons AND devils who attempt to take over Toril. They do and the adventurer party is seemingly the only ones to escape to another world. Bit it turns out many from Toril escape as well. On my channel (no vids yet) I will explain it in detail. BTW Jorphdan your videos are so helpful and it's nice to have 1 single reference instead of many so that I don't have to piece them all into 1 resource because I have it here! Thanks Jorphdan!
Side Note : Tharizdun, The Mad God, is actually the god who created the Abyss. Though i do not know if he is the one that made orcus or baphomet "immortal".
That's only in 4e, though. The Abyss in prior editions predates Tharizdun, who's exclusively a Greyhawk god. Orcus started off as a mortal necromancer priest that died and clawed his way up from mane to balor to demon prince.
My favorite demon lord is Oublivae who is a demon that keeps any one lord form having a clear advantage rule the rest as well as seeking out the annihilation of mortal kingdoms for fun.
you may also find additional information from many 1e supplements. Temple of Elemental Evils talks about the fight between St.Cuthbert and Zuggtmoy. Tome of Horror has traces of Orcus's scheme.
The Demoninomicon isn’t a Forgotten Realms book, it’s a Points of Light book. A lot of the Points of Light cosmology was retconned into being true for the Realms as well thanks to the Spellplague, so some of it probably applies, but I wouldn’t be confident guessing how much.
*this is a little off topic but do you guys ever realise whenever gods fight the whole forgotten realms just looks at each other and go "oh no, here we go again."*
my favorit demon lord is yeenoghu, he is so crazy and savage he literally just wants his gnolls to kill everything and than have them fight for the carcasses that remain and his art is crazy cool imo
Your missing citations come from dragon magazine. That’s where Orcus being born a mortal is (AJ picker cites the exact issue in one of his videos I believe)
Modron march. Dead Gods and Tales from the infinite staircase all dealt with the same backstory of the drow goddess Kiaransalee ( i think) killing orcus using " the final word" and him becoming an undead god known as tenebrous. He then used the infinite staircase which left behind a corruption that was the impetus for those adventures. He slew and usurped primus and triggered the modron march. All in search of his rod which contained part of his lifeforce and could restore him. Planescape is the shit!
Check out Shane O'Connor's Brief History of Orcus....though it has some holes and doesn't mention the Bloodstone stuff, it is a worthwhile and quick read.
For the full story you must read dead gods, the great modron march and tales from the infinite staircase. All planescape adventure anthologies that tie in together
First of, thanks so much for these. after years of absence from dnd and now finding a group of totally inexperienced players this is a great channel to get (back) into it. I would personally love a video on the current state of fearun, it's political landscape etc. and maybe a video (or 3) about the major cities. but no matter the subject of coming videos Thanks so much for making them!
I heard a different origin story entirely for the demons, namely that the Obyrinths (or more specifically the Obyrinth Lord Pale Night, the Mother of Demons) created a race called the T'anari and that this the race that Demogorgon and others belonged to, though yes I've heard Orcus be called a mortal. I suppose conflicting origin stories though works out neatly enough when you are talking about Chaotic Evil though.
Where is The Pale lady? :D Probobly the most powerful demon that ever existed. More ancient than most devils or demons and also known as (rumors) "The mother of Demons."
demogorgon appearing in Salvatore's latest trilogy/series was shocking and awesome - - speaking of Salvatore, no mention of Lloth which I find an oversight
Yeah Xanathar’s Guide to Everything picked up the Final finished edition of those demon spell as summon lesser demon and summon greater demon and infernal calling for a devil👍🏼💯
The "Dead Gods" Planescape adventure is where Orcus' story is laid out. Also maybe the 3.5 Book of Vile Darkness -- idk. TMG did a show here on youtube, discussing orcus, and he explains it all there.
I would have loved to see a reference to Sess'ineck, the only one that dared bail out of the blood war and literally banished his layer, the tenth, to not have to fight anymore
The Faceless Hunger is D&D's least subtle Lovecraftian mythos reference, if not Its only: he is azathoth, the Blind Idiot God, who is the embodiment of astral chaos and apathy. The HP mythos too says his followers are fools to believe summoning him brings anything but destruction
I'm about to run Baldur's Gate, Descent into Avernus and I'm on like, my 10th video of these. I read the Drizzt series ages ago, but otherwise had no way to rebuild my knowledge of the world at large (since the module is campaign specific). Thanks so much for making these! Huge help.
According to the Ghostwalk Campaign Option "Vilest of all gods, Orcus is a powerful demon who became a deity by exchanging power for mortal worship." Now that was as of 2003, so take out of it what you will.
Orcas was once a Holy Night who betrayed his God and his order and became a blackguard who attracted the attention of the mother of Chaos who birthed his soul into the form of one of the first demon Lords.
I've read that Orkus was just a random bottom of the barrel fresh from the ichor lowest demon thing and he just kept combining with others (i can't remember what the lowest mindless ones were called) and survived till he became the lord he is now. Also that Demogorgon is his staunch enemy and demogorgon hides from him in his palace that actually Dagon is at the bottom of. So Dagon controls Demogorgon kinda and they both hate Orkus...
Hey Jorphdan, been watching your videos for awhile, before you got really well known. Love your stuff! I'd love to see a video series covering specific breeds of demons, like a Maralith, and maybe briefly go over a notable demon
I found the following in Dead Gods, a Planescape adventure for 2nd edition: "...before [Orcus] became an Abyssal lord, he worked his way up through the ranks of the tanar'ri [demons]. Before that, he was a larva, and before that he lived as a mortal." My 1st edition Manual of the Planes lists Orcus as a god of the Abyss but no additional details.
It's my understanding that with the faceless Lord the Lord of slimes you have an interesting situation as his mind is elsewhere what you refer to as The Faceless Lord is only as body his mind is elsewhere kind of like the forest God from Princess Mononoke when they suffer his head
Really digging this stuff. Was planning on introducing Demons into my campaign. The planes are definitely a weak spot in my knowledge. Also being able to come up with stuff for what the abyss looks like is just crazy. I gotta take the dive at some point I guess.
the far realm is not an evil place, nor are all aberrations necessarily. many are, of course, but mostly just obligatorily predatory and their fundamental incompatibility with the normal planes just makes them dangerous and mutagenic to the area and beings around them. obyriths are not from the far realm and are absolute evil in every respect. they ENJOY the suffering they cause and are evil just for the sake of being evil. That said, there a lot of trivial parallels between them but they are fundamentally very different beings.
If I remember correctly Orcus was once an evil mortal: -He was slain and went to the Abyss -Rose through the ranks to become a demon lord -Was slain again by an upstart demon lord -Came back to life again because he had so many worshippers and influence
I'm trying to find the info you mentioned about Baphomet and Orcus's alternate backgrounds and I'm about to go crazy. I know I've read it some where but it's not in fendish codex I or 2 , it's not in the book of vile darkness nor is it in Iggwil's Demonomicon or any of my other source material. I know I've read it but i'm not sure where. The only place left I can look is possibly one of the old dragon mag articals.
Fiendish Codex 1 page 128 "Those who have served Orcus longest claim that the Prince of the Undead was once mortal, and that his long struggle from larva to balor to demon lord instilled in him an instinct for survival that has allowed him to cheat death itself." I'm sure there's more but that's the first thing I came across.
D&D lore is strange in how the planes are supposed to be infinite in size but yet the descriptions of it imply a specific extent or clear bounded geography.
In the case of missing background for D&D lore, I like to go to the actual myths that inspired the particular character. Orcus was the Roman demon of oaths and punished oath breakers. This throws a rub into D&D alignment mechanics because any being that enforces oaths sounds like it should of lawful alignment, not chaos. Orcus was often depicted by his Roman worshipers as a kind of immortal super cyclops with a big beard and club. His name became conflated with the afterlife he ruled also, which is extra confusing, referring to just as "land of the dead". Perhaps an addition to his canon in D&D then could be he started off as a devil and became corrupted by the demons he was sent to punish for breaking oaths. This would have been a huge blow to the devils and maybe make them reconsider any all out assaults on the Abyss.
I reaaaally like the lore tied to Pale Night. The idea that every other Demon Lord took on an appearance in this new reality but Pale Night refused out of, more than any other DEMON, disgust of this new reality. She toils over the creation of demonic creatures in the hopes of creating perfection that will usurp all the planes and turn them into a reflection of her previous existence. She delights in the torment of good planar beings, and has a "gallery of souls" of her victims.
I've played D&D and then AD&D for years it was a lot of fun. We didn't dwell on the details of lore and "truth" because let's face it this stuff is stuff of our infinite imagination in context of the game. I also realize that there are those out there that take debate about these "facts" very seriously too. My adage is to encourage fun and comrade when playing these characters and not let yourself get consumed by the details that us mortals are not meant to know. My two copper pieces all. Enjoy.
I think the channel overall started as a way to understand the realms and d&d mythology. But it's evolved into here are some ideas to spark your own story. Or at least I hope that it has.
Oh yeah, Juiblex the faceless lord, i read a story one time, demon's choice, where the demon asked a certain creature about something worst than a dragon, and he said the name of that demon lord, of course, the demon regret asking that, why? Because only saying his name could atract his atention and he is really bad news
my favorite demon lord is jubilex, I killed enough mobs by slimes I created then I turned around and summoned jubilex and brought him in to wipe out an enemy party. then I turned around and made him a priest.. he was already a God, and now he groveled down before a God because he didn't need to do anything more for the world haha
There's a lot here that is contrary to my own understanding about the Abyss. I thought Demigorgon was created by those fleshshaper demons that the Queen of Chaos used made him when she was pumping out more powerful demons. I've also seen a lot of things that support that Orkus worked his way up from a Lemur so I'd be willing to believe him having been a mortal or just having been "birthed" from the Abyss as a lowly lemur originally.
You may not know this but the reason none of can remember how we know Orcus orgins is because high magic was done to wipe him from the memory of all living creatures and it worked for a time.
Typically planer travel is done via portals. There are interlocking portals that connect all the inner and outer planes together. This is necessary because most of the planes are infinite so traveling with a ship wouldn't work. But maybe in your game that's how the planes of existence work, nothing wrong with that :) If you want interplanetary travel D&D, you should look up Spelljammer.
I've already been summoning demons though. I just summon it behind my enemies and let it have their way with them. Summoning demons with low Charisma also helps.
I feel the founding members of the Abyss, Demogorgon, Baphomet, and Orcus, have unclear origins to allow DMs to mold the "Big Bads" to their own purposes and their idea of a villain.
I believe the minor history for orcus as a mortal and as a "god named teneberious" was mentioned in the 3.5 hordes of the abyss and teneberious was later a pact magic vestige in 3.5 tome of magic. I believe the story went he had attained divinity but was then murdered before taking his Orcus identity but I would have to re-read hordes of the abyss
@@relaxedatmosphere7336 i don't know why i put hoards of the abyss. Yeah i have that on pdf. Oh i see it was 3 yrs ago. I hadn't gotten dead gods yet 😆 that explains it
Yes True! I'm working on a "What did 5th edition change" once we get there in the history. But you are correct it's part of the 5th Edition Great Wheel Cosmology once again in the astral plane.
4th edition lore is often omitted/forgotten due to 4th editions unpopularity. It’s best to just focus on 3.5 and 5th edition because 5e is basically a reversal of everything 4e did
See something is weird here. All the lore i've seen (including popular and well researched videos here on YT including several done by Mr. Rhexx) states that Demagorgon and all the other Tenar'ri Demon Lords were NOT an immortal Primordial older than the Gods who fought with Obox Ub in the beginning etc... It says that the Obyrith came FIRST and that THEY under the leadership of Obox Ub were the ones who CREATED the Tenar'ri using mortal souls; and that Demagorgon was actually the first of their creations, not their contemporary! This is a MASSIVE plot-hole and pretty hard to reconcile if two separate canon lore books both from relatively modern times are stating these dichotomous beliefs.
Yes! So lore was changed a bunch for 4th edition which is where I grabbed info for that video. Mr. Rhexx and others are correct as well; which focuses on the 3rd and 2nd edition lore. I'm working now through an updated Demon Lord video series to re-cover them more in depth and hopefully clarify this. Good catch~!
