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Deponent Verbs

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Verbs in Latin come in two different voices, the active and the passive. But then there's this other set of verbs that don't seem to fit nicely into these categories. Deponent verbs are those that have passive forms, but we assign them active meanings in English: the look passive but are translated actively. This video discusses the concept of deponents with examples, and posits a possible explanation for the age old question: why do deponents even exist?

Опубликовано:

28 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 43

@eleanormyers1274 Год назад

Thank you so much for this video! Throughout my Latin 2 school year, I've repeatedly gone to your videos to explain something I don't understand in class, and afterwards they make so much more sense.

@QueenMoontime 2 года назад

Thank you for the vocab list!

@davidjhills 2 года назад

Secundus

@Brontosuchus Год назад

trīcēsimus tertius

@funnysilly5020 2 года назад

Primus

@giulianomarco 2 года назад

Could I respectfully request you make a new short video counting steadily from 0 to 100 in Latin for revision purposes? I've already learned the cardinals from your excellent "Numbers In Latin" video from 2013 - but it's nearly 8m long and requires you to skip back and forth for repeated listening. I suggest reciting from 0-30 (to set the "de" precedents), then go up in tens from 40 to 90 before signing off with 98, 99 (to show they're different) and finally 100.

@latintutorial 2 года назад

I could do more with non-explainer videos like this, you’re right.

@watson494 2 года назад

Quartus

@ravenmight8997 2 года назад

I take it that to say "Am I being followed?", one has to break the point of passive (to omit or take focus away from the agent) and say something like "Is there something following me?". Something along the line of "Estne quod me sequitur?" (I apologize for my poor Latin, as I has just started.) May I have your opinion on this, and/or any alternatives you might have for curiosity sake? Thank you for the video regardless!

@user-vz2fj4wq7d Год назад

Did you figure it out? I'm struggling with the topic myself

@tanyashcholokova4072 Год назад

Brilliant explanation! I really like the reference to "middle" in Greek.

@bytheway1031 2 года назад

Thanks for posting!

@latintutorial 2 года назад

You're welcome

@andrewheck7265 2 года назад

I was surprised to learn that the perfect participle sometimes takes an active meaning. Does this special rule apply only with full-deponent verbs, or does it also apply with semi-deponent verbs? For example, if we say "Cadmus ausus agit grates," are we saying 'Cadmus, having dared, gives thanks' or 'Cadmus, having been dared, gives thanks?' Thanks for another great lesson!

@latintutorial 2 года назад

Yes, the participle for semi-deponents is active like in your example.

@victorfergn 2 года назад

Is this the origin of the use of essere/être as an auxiliary verb in italian and french? which might explain why italian participles suffer declinations according to the number and gender of the thing that carries out the action, that might explain why only intransitive, reflexive and bidirectional (to die, to live, to go, to come, etc) verbs take essere and être as auxiliaries... or may be I'm just saying bullshit.

@latintutorial 2 года назад

That's a great thought, and we do see some derivatives of deponents stay in this list (e.g., the words derived from morior and nascor). But a large bulk of these essere/etre past tense forms don't come from deponents, and there the form seems to derive from a more semantic construction related to its transitive nature, that is, words that take direct objects tended to adopt the habere + past participle construction (which was around in Latin, even classical, "grammatically proper" Latin) rather than the standard esse + past participle. And many deponent verbs in common and late Latin tended to turn into regular, non-deponent verbs. Because even the Romans knew that deponent verbs were confusing and complicated.

@mrobertsification 3 месяца назад

I recognise this voice! G'day. Welcome back?

@ricardolichtler3195 2 года назад

Excelente vídeo, como de costume!

@earlygrayy Год назад

THANK YOU SO MUCH I APPRECIATE IT ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

@commentfreely5443 2 года назад

octavus

@aafrophonee 2 года назад

I like your new intro animation!

@tylere.8436 2 года назад

Tertius

@Camera-Obscura Год назад

Wow, I never thought about the middle voice as a concept. In English it is reflected mainly with the words to get, to be, to have, or to have+be then a participle. The person got angry, the door had opened. I like the word got because of that special property. I find it odd some adults think it’s a childish word but it’s because they really just don’t understand it, ironic really. I see the middle voice being in Spanish too, but no one was able to explain it well. It was one those things they knew but couldn’t explain. So I just rolled with it. The reflexive pronouns like se te me le works as the middle voice, I see it now. I didn’t like it because I thought it implied the subject did it to themselves, like “por que te enojaste”- why did you anger yourself. It really means why did you get angry. This middle voice concept is making it make sense now. While I understood what it meant and accepted the meaning because I studied and knew there was no mal intent in how they were conveying, I now accept on a logical scale because I know the rationale behind it

@joseandresbautistaromero4176 2 года назад

I have a question, how do I say the sheep is followed by a wolf? Thanks for the video!!

@qiogiovio6891 7 месяцев назад

lupus ovem sectus. This sentence preserved the meaning, have beauty in its form, agreed by my current teacher, but may not be what you wanted.

@mitomino 2 года назад

Deponent verbs like "hortor" or "polliceor" can be said to have passive forms and active meanings, but what about deponent verbs like "nascor"? In what sense can this verb be said to have an "active meaning"?

@latintutorial 2 года назад

“To begin life, rise, spring up/forth”?

@mitomino 2 года назад

@@latintutorial Well, my point was rather based on the fact that "hortor" and "polliceor" and many other deponent verbs can be said to have an active meaning (their subject is an agent), whereas the subject of verbs like "nascor" and "morior" have a passive meaning (their subject is a patient rather than an agent).

@tylere.8436 3 месяца назад

@mitomino Deponents are better explained as indeed passive verbs, but not necessarily done by someone else specifically nor done by the subject alone (therefore the lack of active conjugations). If the deponent verb takes a direct object, then it's a transitive verb that doesn't emphasize the subject. Nascor "I'm born"; morior "I'm dead" not really "I die" because I don't do it to myself, it happens to me. Sequor "I'm led (to someone)". Loquor "I talk [of someone else's words]", likewise fabulor "I narrate a story (told by others)". Egredior "I walk out (step by step)". Osculor "I make out (with someone)"

@mitomino 3 месяца назад

@@tylere.8436 The confusing phrase "active meaning" in the typical traditional definition of a deponent verb seems to mean nothing more than "MEANING which tends to be expressed with an ACTIVE verbal FORM in modern (European) languages". Crucially, note that ACTIVE in this quote modifies (verbal) FORM, not meaning! That's why the typical definition of deponent verbs (in particular, its reference to "active meanings") can be quite confusing. In my opinion (and that of some linguists/experts on this topic such as Francesco Pinzin, who wrote a doctoral dissertation on deponent verbs in Latin), these verbs have (middle-)passive forms and middle meanings.

@tylere.8436 3 месяца назад

@@mitomino Exactly, the traditional definition only helps for those just translating them into a modern language, not so much actually explaining the concept at its core. Deponents have confused me for the longest time, but only recently has it dawned on me thanks to some dedicated Latin forums and articles. The biggest clue is how deponents are essentially regular verbs minus the active conjugations - because deponents can't be expressed actively.

@briban65 2 года назад

This is why Italian and French use essere and être as auxiliary verbs sometimes isn’t it?

@tylere.8436 2 года назад

No, different developments. Deponents we're being regularized in Romance, this is a relic concept in Latin. Italian and French use essere and être for mostly intransitive verbs, like for movement.

@darthlaurel Год назад

For some reason, deponent verbs also having subjunctive forms really confused me.

@chancesud 2 года назад

Happy Birthday🎂

@fraternitas5117 2 года назад

Da faq, novi intro!!

@serenacappuccio5581 Год назад

So I was taught that the subject of a passive form verb is the patient of the verb and the recipient is usually a dative indirect object? It is all very confusing hahah

@latintutorial Год назад

I can see that in that “patient” comes from patior, meaning the word that suffers or endures the action. But the dative indirect object as the recipient of the action doesn’t make sense.