Right around 3000 teams finished challenge mode. My group finished it in position 2897......Slipped RIGHT in there at the end. 23:37:00 was our total time but it was my first day1 clear ever. Loved the whole experience outside of Warpriest (if you know you know). Cant wait to breach the triple digit finish next time!
Lol I finished at 23:15:00. We were stuck at Oryx challenge for 6 hours because everyone had been up since a few hours before the raid launched. First Day 1 clear too :)
Definitely by Oryx we were splintering but we pulled together just in time to finish it off. War Priest was brutal but Oryx definitely took more time than we expected. Based on previous results we had at most one more run before the end of the 24hrs. Until another day1 I'm not taking off this emblem. Too much sweat and sanity into it.
Personally, I love the new revamped kings fall compared to it's original D1 version. Can't wait for Touch of Malice to drop hopefully this season so I can use it for nightfalls.
@@ADUSN Lol. Love the analogy. I've never had a raid exotic take more than 41 clears (1k voices) to get. The scourge sparrow took 81 clears oddly enough though lol. Best of luck to your rng bud ❤
@@outbreak3607 Yeah that sounds about right lol. Me and my friends ran with some lfgs earlier this week and back to back raids they got Touch of Malice 😭
I felt the same about the Warpriest damage check, but didn’t know how to describe it until Datto did. Tried it with LFG and it was just unwinnable because not everyone had a god roll linear w/ font of might. We could do everything else perfectly but having damage be the issue with no way to improve it was so disheartening.
@@tyrant7244 they didn't announce it and they didn't give a marker, I didn't know about it until the day before. I don't go to the crafter unless I'm crafting a new gun so yeah they did but they hid it
encounters that make EVERYONE do stuff will always be my favorite. as someone who enjoyed teaching leviathan, scourge and last wish i can tell you my biggest pet peeve was when someone would be like "yeah forget the explanation just put me on ads"
I think there's a time and a place for it. Spire was good and I enjoyed the final boss fight, but there is definitely an aspect of "everyone has to be a quarterback" to its design. Everyone needing to be "on-point A-game" can make the encounter not fun when someone is starting to falter because its late or the raid has been going on for too long. Conversely, its easy for 2-3 people to get fully carried through a lot of VoG because the mechanics don't break down if the other 3-4 people know what they're doing. I think a lot of the encounters in revamped KF do a really good job at being flexible enough that if one person is having a rough time, they can be given basic things to do and largely focus on either not dying or doing DPS at the proper time.
On note of Heavy ammo; I really wish Bungie would do what Division 2 does with power ammo for the specialist weapons. For the people who didn't play Division 2, you have a meter where it fills when you kill and when you fill it up it guarantees you power ammo. I wish D2 did this so bad. Heavy RNG is ridiculously unfun to play around.
There's not an exact number is just a threshold that after a certain number of kills the chances for Heavy to drop are super high, is not like you kill 20 and the 20 is a guarantee drop
@@Ms666slayer yeah but everyone uses basicalyl the same amount of heavy during a dps phase unless they are Div. But not everyone gets the same amount of kills. which si why im wondering if its based on "amount of team kills" or "amount of personal kills"
The new and revamped King's Fall is by far my current favorite raid, I love all of the changes to the mechanics and to the loot. All of that felt great. However, the Day One experience needs to be looked at in its totality. The combat felt ridiculously easy and my team isn't a top 5% pve team, it was just easy with solar on all three classes; huge testament to our power creep and why abilities need a tuning. The biggest issue though, was the absolutely obscene damage requirement for Warpriest. My team had the combat and mechanics nailed after 2.5-3hrs; it took another TEN HOURS to get the perfect run where we had enough ammo drop (both randomly and aeons x2) with Warpreist not sprinting or randomly wiping us early, because that's a bug. This fight was way over tuned and fights like it need to be tuned with this in mind in the future. It sucks to repeatedly fail an encounter simply because ammo refused to drop run after run.
Maybe having it so that orange and yellow bar enemies have substantially higher chances to spawn heavy, that way the rng doesn’t feel so bad and it also makes aeons optimal for heavy but doesn’t make them feel mandatory for level capped stuff
See when d2 came out they made orange bars for the sole purpose of dropping heavy on kills so everyone would have ammo when needed now they are just a thorn in my ghost
I fully agree, every facet of the game is becoming easier and easier to the point where I don't even have to care much in GRANDMASTERS. People keep getting upset when we get brought down in power or things get harder but how can they not see that it's unhealthy for everything to be so much easier than what it used to be.
When enemies spawn out of the same doors in the same way at warpriest they're gonna get spawncamped really easily. Part of it is how powerful we are, but also the enemies come into the arena in a way that makes them incredibly easy to kill. If you had enemies spawn towards the end of the damage phase where players aren't all spread out camping the doors and are behind totems on a side, they may be a little more threatening. I think Bungie has to be a bit smarter about the actual placement of enemy spawns to make these combat encounters more difficult. Yknow how the enemies will spawn away from the orbs at Golgoroth and run into the arena to charge the damage team? More stuff like that please, force the players into doing some sort of mechanic involving movement around the arena which means they don't just get to sit at spawn doors and camp with a grenade.
I think in this regard, they might've been limited by D1 and thinking about how pure to keep the mechanics, spawn doors, and add compositions. I do agree that more doors with better splits of the enemies in warpriest and golg would definitely improve the fight. Some add doors or taken teleports on the spawn side of golg, bigger add packs for the doors on right side and left in warpriest when they come in from behind.
Wish they did the raid on Saturday but I understand why they didn't. Missed out on 7 hours of the day one due to University classes starting that day. Got the DsC, VoG, and VoD day 1 emblems but missed out on this one. Congrats to everyone else that got though :D
I Think this is the best raid in the current game right now. It has a balance of fun challenging, but also hold reasonably expectations for what players need to do. (Players that just met eachother and have never player with eachother). This is the direction the games raids need to be in. Not like vow and memorize 290 symbols. Rather like kings fall, Vog, and last wish. Which is very simple but challenging and not brain overwhelming. It is fun to que and play kings fall.
15:01 it feels like the solution is ammo synths tbh. make it a long cooldown, but have it be a guaranteed source of, say, 50% of your ammo pool. there would need to be a better ui for it, natural ammo drop rates would need to be rebalanced around it, and you might need to change some boss health pools, but imo it's worth it. joe blackburn keeps saying he wants destiny to be an mmo, and since strategically popping consumables mid-encounter is a big part of mmo resource management, it seems like a no brainer to reintroduce them
Everyone hates on Elitist Datto, but truly he wants all of us to be the best that we can be. Easy Day 1 experiences where loreleys trivializes content does not make you the Guardian Datto wants you to be.
Raid was great but my takeaway from it was Wow solar 3.0 needs to be tuned back before we end up with another "Building tier 3 reckoning around well of radiance" moment (Which already feels present in Duality for anyone not playing titan, thanks classy restoration.)
I still think that there should be an emblem for completing just contest mode. Just being able to show off that you completed the contest version would be a nice thing to have. Having to run the raid 2x makes doing day 1 much more harder than with a new raid where you only have to run it once.
Swear to god man. We got all the way to oryx challenge mode with 2 hours left and just couldn’t complete it. Everyone was so tired after being awake for 34+ hours and just couldn’t remember all knights and ogres killed. The 24 hours time strict for D1 raids makes no sense at all, specifically when the raid releases at friday when most people have to work.
When going into this raid I was hella nervous cause in D1 I really struggled with this raid. In D2, however, it was super duper fun! My new favorite raid.
I never played D1 so I never had that nostalgia for any of the "new" content. But I am having a lot of fun in Kingsfall. I was scared at first that people said there had to be some changes but I think Bungie did a good job keeping a little edge to it. I don't know what it was like before but I know it's fun now and that's all that matters to me.
I feel like one way to fix the regen that Solar brings, is to associate health granted by sources to Recovery. It already is mostly useless in PvE with the difference between 0 and 10 being 3 seconds faster to get full health from nothing.
Usually I comment about the topic of the video but The First Descendant looks like one of the best games I’ve ever seen. I seriously cannot wait for it.
I got to play this for the very first time. Warpriest and Golgoroth were so scary because I've heard them talked about so much. I LOVED Golgoroth's spawn animation SO MUCH. I had to put my controller down for a sec because it was so cool. The jumping puzzle with the tomb ships was pretty cool, but the boop wall was really annoying, at least on the first run. It was really unpredictable and frustrating, but I'm sure with time I'll learn the timings and pathway and it'll become tolerable. For my first time, it was the only part I didn't like. Daughters had a really boring dps phase, but the mechanics before were cool. Oryx was amazing, but no one could explain bombs to me, so I was just killing adds and flexing plates until dps. I really really liked running the spark, though! I wish you got to pick it up and dunk it somewhere like the first encounter, I find that mechanic really satisfying, and I didn't feel any impact from running over a spark and seeing a piece of text :/ My rating: 8/10 Comparison: VoG: 6/10 Lev: 10/10 EoW: 4/10 SoS: 9/10 (boss is 11/10) LW: 8/10 GoS: 6/10 DSC: 7/10 Vow: 10/10
I’m glad you mentioned that issue with warpriest. It’s a little annoying just wiping because you and your team came to the agreement you don’t have enough ammo. But man I’m glad this raid is back. It’s the reason I kept playing d1 and to see it in this game which is way more developed was awesome to see. Finally raiding again for this reason. Absolute classic. Got to see my man oryx in 60fps 🤯🤯
I personally would change it like: Kill X amount of enemies get a brick with 1 or 2 ammo. That way then can increase the mobs for certain fights a bit. Rather than a "hope you have a lot of luck?"
I will say about Golgoroth: My team and I used to do the one orb strat because seeing six orbs hanging there at one time was kinda intimidating; why bother when I can just keep shooting one. With the new change, my team and I felt more confident doing the actual fight because it literally shows you "THIS IS THE ORB YOU NEED TO SHOOT NEXT". And, to be honest, doing it the "right way" made the fight more fun. A lot of the small changes they did to this raid made the raid as a whole insanely more fun (personally) that I can't wait to run it multiple times a week.
Going back to KF was refreshing, I struggle a bit with VotD's mechanics but KF was a breeze and I can easily execute and explain its mechanics. Not to mention the quality of the origin perks and the guns from the loot pool!
for the new player, this is an amazing raid. i can’t count the number of people who hadn’t played d1, and told me this was their new favorite raid or that the experience was insane.(they need to figure out something with the power ammo on warpriest, i noticed this while playing my first run, perhaps a enemy that drops one brick of power and just being careful where they place the enemy) i do agree the power creep is starting to set in very very badly but i think it could be easily fixed with some changes. i remember worrying about sword knights and boomer knights on hard mode crota. i don’t think i would mind going back to that.
I went back to d1 recently and after a while i was invited to raid by a random in the tower, of course i agreed, and we did 390 VoG and it was tough, we were dying all the time, ledges caused some death too, but atheon and explosive harpies were brutal, took 3-4 hours to finish, no new players, everybody kinda new what to do, but mostly 2 people did most of the work with relics
The 3.0 problem is really just Restoration x2 and Devour. If overshields were stronger than raw healing, it would be a real tradeoff between subclasses that can camp spawn doors (solar, arc) and subclasses that can tank wizards in contest mode (void, stasis).
I never really played D1, but the encounters in this raid are insanely satisfying and fun. Edit: when they bring back Crown I hope they make the first encounter shorter. That raid is my favorite one. Idk why I just enjoy it so much.
no idea if its a popular theory but i think the reason why we are becoming so strong now is because we are going to fall far sometime during final shape
Bungie just needs to rebalance damage checks like this. Having an encounter require top damage and having a mechanic where 2 people doing damage have to leave to do the mechanic is awful
In general having the biggest challenge of a raid being a dps check, is a bad thing imo, especially because in Destiny there really isn't much room for skill expression with dps, especially not in a raid like kingsfall where the best options for dps are quite limited.
@Ya Mum I didn’t participate in contest, that might be why we see it differently, but on normal, I like that it makes dps a little more dynamic. I also think that I was designed to not have 6 ppl constantly pumping damage, bc even with two ppl leaving in and out, a two phase on normal is pretty easy for me, that’s just my experience though m.
@@cerulean5032 I also agree with that, but I usually don’t mind one encounter just needing you to fucking P U M P out the damage, I find it pretty fun to just hit massive numbers and chunk a big boss down, but it shouldn’t be every encounter.
@@matthewjobin6665 oh yeah it can be very cathartic to just unload massive numbers, but it's kinda sad when it's the hardest thing about a day one raid race.
Back in my day we had to walk uphill both ways in the snow to the raid race on day one. in all seriousness, I get your point. I think our power will be getting snipped in LF
D2Y1 had a really good system for heavy drops and I don’t understand why they removed it. Before Forsaken orange/yellow bars ALWAYS dropped heavy ammo pretty much. I don’t know why this was changed it was so nice especially in Leviathan and stuff
Im still blown away resiliance hasnt been nerfed in some sort of way makes endgame content SO much easier. Dont get me wrong day one still kicked my ass but grandmasters is such a snooze fest now I agree with dattos take that we have gotten ridiculously stronger. Forsaken power levels were wild but THIS??? Is just absurd makes the previous power creep levels look small in comparision.
Shout out to ihavetoes who I had a quick chat with after math class worlds first attempt in the tower. Got to say, that small interaction will have me cheering you guys on next worlds first!
If warpriest could fucking chill with the strafing then I think oryx would be the next gate keeper. My team managed to kill him but it took so long that we gave up. Extremely nice raid thought.
They HAVE to change the health numbers for day 1. Aeon was required to beat Warpriest for day one for most teams because of his massive health pool. Those that didn’t use it got extremely lucky ammo drops or didn’t beat it at all. It was mostly the latter since the numbers dropped so hard after warpriest. Golg was also another huge dropping point because there was only 1 wizard to get ammo off of, and there just wasn’t enough ammo dropping to beat him. I love raiding, but the day one experience has boiled down to “can I lucky enough with ammo drops to kill the boss?”. Mechanics barely matter anymore because the health pool is the real issue.
what if instead of random ammo drops, its based on a set amount of enemies killed, so like base would be something like 25 enemies killed before a heavy brick dropped and with double ammo finders it goes down to 10. maybe those numbers are too small but something along those lines
In my opinion, I think that most raid encounters need to have designated "Ammo Bearers" that will consistently drop ammo for the players. They spawn in an inconvenient spot and despawn after a short while, but killing them is the only way to get Heavy ammo. Aeons increases the quantity of ammo dropped, and there should be like... 2-4 per damage check, so that you can max out on ammo without being perfect. This allows teams who are better with their ammo usage to clear without killing them, while also making it consistent so that it's not pure RNG whether you'll complete the encounter or not. In D1 we had Heavy Synths to remedy this issue, but we don't now, and Aeons are an annoying bandaid to a more permanent problem.
I had no issues with heavy ammo. Why? Using an exotic primary like Trinity. I leveraged that mechanic built into them and had heavy everywhere. About the raid: was my fave until Last Wish (non cheese). They made all of the right changes for me and now it's at least as good as LW or better. Couldn't do Day 1 because Bungie doesn't understand the concept of giving their people a day off in exchange for working an extra day. I'm a developer myself, this is common. Just give them the Monday off so they still get a 2 day weekend and a short week the next week.
I really wish a emblem was givin for day one clear. The challenges should be reserved for the competitive side. Or at least a gold border regular emblem.
Yeah I agree with the Oryx standing there getting shot at, there's even a D1 animation they could have used! The one where he grabs on to the ship and shivers in pain.
The Golgoroth challenge required you to be standing in the pool as the guardian with the gaze AS the next guardian steals the gaze, if you step out before they take it you fail the challenge.
Datto I agree it has gotten easier. I am a solo player and last season I took on the challenge of soloing Master nightfall's, Master Lost sectors, Master Empire hunts and Master Nightmare hunts. I was even able to solo Dungeons. I have to be honest though, I like it this way. I have been enjoying Destiny a lot more lately. I was even able to finally to finish a Grand Master Nightfall for the first time with an LFG group. I know Bungie reads these comments and I hope they see I am having more fun playing Destiny now than did before. I have finally stopped yelling at my Xbox... lol
As an experience it really doesnt match what VoG and Crota means to me but hey im stubborn and the Taken King if i remember right made me quit D1 originally. The Xur Coin spam annoyed the hell out of me with casuals getting all their exotics done relatively quick while I had to put in HEAVY hours to get what I had. Anyhoo, the raid is great. Glad its back.
I only got to hop on after work and I was already tired. My clan had one guy who hadn't played throughout all of Haunted, played Hunter, and had no survivability builds... He held us up at Totems for 4 god damn hours before he had to go and we got someone better, with that guy, we did it in 3 tries.
Hopefully the next new raid bungie releases is very hard, regardless of mechanics, however many enemies of all varieties they think they can have, they need to turn it up by 200% and just let it be.
I'm not disagreeing with solar being really, Really good. But the sheer damage and ease of font of might and reeds regret is definitely keep my team from only considering solar for the raid. I don't think that's a benefit if the subclass but the availability of the Supreme well maker only to stasis
Agree on power creep, the resistance stat of 40% for lvl 10, was to much, I was complaining about it the day it happened, not only because it effed up my builds, but some builds just takes it to a thousand, Loreley for titans, along with titans lightning grenades, and warm gods, hunters period, supers do waaaaaay to much damage, and the DR hunters can stack on to the 100 resistance, plus invis, hunters be broken pve/pvp, locks have well with 100 resistance, devour... lol yeah all locks have is well🤷♂️
i agree so heavy on the point of people just trouncing the raid and spawn killing ads i was on stasis titan the entire day one after totems and i was just freeze locking and spawn camping every door the ads couldnt even move let alone shoot me i really think they need to make some solution in where you cant be as aggressive or else these day one clears arent going to feel as rewarding or satisfying to play. Most of the time me or my team died to failing the challenge or the bosses annihilating you something along those lines
On the topic of "safety" in combat: I agree things should be challenging and punishing, however I think it's an issue with the game overall (and maybe lorely/restoration to a lesser degree). The issue is the way that the challenge presents itself in enemies doing more damage and taking less damage actively promotes one type of play style: safe. The best example of this I can think of is GMs where the entire time it's "plink plonk with your weapons from the back and finish the strike in 30-40 minutes". I know there are exceptions to this, especially now with updated subclasses. But I stopped caring about GMs after like the 3rd season they had been around because they got boring. The most fun I had in GMs was last season with classy resto going around wombo comboing enemies with Consecration and Heart of In Most Light. And there were definitely times that if I screwed up on a rotation of abilities or missed I died, but I had fun doing it and it was still challenging. There are so many other nuances and stuff to this but I don't wanna Charles Dickens everyone and write more of a novel than I already have lol
Yeah power creep and the lack of challenging *combat* (not mechanics) is definitely an issue. The amount of times where you actually feel threatened (without getting straight up one-shot) *by enemies* in pve is really low. The raid itself was really great tho. Bungie did a really good job refreshing the mechanics!
Casuals don’t care if the game is too easy. It’s a space magic game. Everyone wants to spam abilities and have fun. The option to not use the easy stuff is always there if you are hungry for challenge. Don’t ask to nerf stuff and make others life harder when you can just not use something.
I think the changes made all make sense and have been pretty good. All encounters have their own challenges and last just long enough to stay interesting most of the time. Overall a good raid, 8/10.
They need to master the difference of Mechanics Difficulty, Enemy Difficulty, and Other Difficulty. Mechanics always gets easier the more you play it, but the other difficulties don't really adjust drastically as the clears go up. Spire had insane enemy difficulty. Attacks would be other difficulty as it wasn't really a mechanics or enemy problem. And Vault had a really high mechanics difficulty. I'd like to see a new format for their raids. Right now the four encounter thing they've been using has got it feeling more like a strike, especially when you clear it so often. A good long parkour challenge with decent enemy difficulty. A puzzle relatively hard to solve the first time. Two Bosses at least. And some other twist theme encounter skin to scourge of the past flaming servitor.
I think the ammo economy is supposed to be offset by damage supers so the whole team isn't clutching on well 😂 or at least that's how my team got through normal mode
Honestly for me, I completely agree that Warpreist was the hardest part of contest, I barley got past warpreist and when my team hit golgy we just passed out one by one because it was late. Took us 4 hours for warpreist then 2 hours for totems. Which brings me to my opinion on raids coming back from D1 to D2. Let there be a contest emblem for regular completion not just challenge completion, like why not? It would make players feel like they completed this challenge and getting the other 24 hour emblem is the sweeter prize. It would entice players more to try out contest mode and go for that emblem and maybe challenge if they are gutsy enough. You can flame me for my opinion idc, but I really feel like there should be more incentives for contest mode. Like give us cool exclusive armor and weapons for participating and going back to the emblems a exclusive 24 hour emblem for beating it during contest not challenge included. Like imagine this, "Fatebringer (Contest)" or "Fatebringer (24H)" I think that'd be cool. I do see negatives with the concept but it still sounds interesting to me. May not be interesting for others but that's what I think, and feel free to disagree. But if you attack me for my opinion then go suck on a rusty nail you fuck knuckle. Thank you for reading if you made it this far! Hope my comment brings someone some intrigue regarding these old raids. Thank you very much!
I think restoration on lorely just needs to be x1. It's kind crazy that getting shot rewards you with crazy healing and ability regeneration. I played as a hunter with 20 resilience on my star eater sales loadout, and I had pretty big dying problems at first but the combat experience wasn't anything too crazy to adapt to.
@@soppybottomboys1195 Mostly because I made the loadout with triple 100s before season of the haunted and because the star eaters rolled with 2 resilience. I'm not farming lost sectors rn that loot pool is too diluted.
@@ringerscheckmate7938 I never really went for two stats at 100 so it was a little easier for me to reach 100 res on all characters. With how wells work now I'm going to try and drop my int in pve amor to 1 snice well of wisdom give you 100 int
@@soppybottomboys1195 100 mobility, recovery, and discipline really helps my neutral game for star eaters. I have quite a few 100 resilience loadouts between stasis, void, and solar. My star eaters with 2 resilience just isn't one of them.
Durign Contest mode my team amde it to warpriest and had to quit there cause we jsut didnt have enough dmg/dps to kill the boss within 4 rounds of dmg.
I’m wondering if bungie should reduce the power creep problem by either increasing enemy health, damage, or light level differences, or by doing a game wide change in PvE like what happened with shadowkeep, such as reducing healing effects, damage resistance, debuffs, and buffs, etc. I’d actually be okay with the last one, but I know many wouldn’t. I just want most of the game to be harder.
Destiny has a huge problem. The healing mechanics brought in from Solar 3.0 fundamentally breaks the game. The game honestly has been easy for a very long time but things (especially Lorely now that Classy Restoration is gone) make it so you only need to not stand completely still (and sometimes you still can) and not die contest level content. Within reason making it so anyone can do it. Which is saying a lot because stasis really broke PvE because you can freeze almost anything and everything to make anything but bosses non-existent. Something anyone could do but it took a little patience if your a warlock and a little aggression if you’re the other two. Then void brought in its own PvE breaking builds but some of it still took thinking and timing. Solar basically said, put yourself in what ever situation you want with no thought and we got you… you won’t die. The thing is… the large amount of the D2 community are not very good. They want these broken subclasses and even more they need them to even do easy level content. It’s almost an impossible situation to make the game accessible for people who aren’t good (and I know that sounds crazy because without even build crafting you can basically just walk in and melee most content to death and I have problems comprehending how people struggle so much) but also making it difficult enough for gamers to find it challenging.
As for Loreley being too good he’s an anecdote from last night. Clan mate that’s been a long time warlock main swapped over to titan with solar 3.0. Hasn’t taken Loreley off since. We did kings fall last night and he was on his hunter. He died, in many attempts of totems, multiple times, on the left side. This continued throughout the raid. He has no idea how to play the game normally anymore without crutching on that helmet. It’s unfortunate.
Funnily enough, daughters challenge that Datto said wasn’t even the challenge, it was that the person who is torn cannot be on the plate before it is constructed yet. That’s how easy daughters challenge was.
one thing i will say is no one is forcing you to use these strong weapons or builds. if you’re tired of being healed by a well then don’t use a well? players have a lot more agency then they would like to admit.
Hey, has anyone else noticed that Ghost just like up and left?! Like... he's just gone. Poof. Vanished. Radio silence. ? And no one else seems to have noticed or they just don't care. But curiouser and curiouser.
