Destiny 2 Lore - Oryx isn't as dead as you think he is... Ghosts of the Deep tells us why... 

Commenting just so this post gets higher so more people see this

The "monster" in question in that lore tab might've just been the Pyramid, but it's worth keeping in mind regardless.

Holy frick, it’s true. One piece of lore is suspending the disbelief for all of the dungeon lmao

This...exactly. Thank you.

@@ringomandingo1015 Huh, you’d think more players would’ve noticed that piece of lore with how often Royal Chase drops from vendors randomly, and in Trials of the Nine.

The word ‘eldritch’ gets flung about too much lol

​@@plebiusjonbson823 "weird, sinister, or ghostly" That's basically what the Hive are

@@Brother_O4TS that is not what it means

@@plebiusjonbson823it‘s literally the definition

@@plebiusjonbson823 Yeah, that's exactly what it means kid

I honestly think Chalco’s the one who’s compromised… She has been reacting strange throughout the whole armor lore pages since they descended into the deep. She only seemed normal when giving out the talismans. Fenchurch had a talisman, Lisben too, it was never said that Chalco had one though !

@@_elitenightmare4794 I feel like the other two would notice if she didn't have one but since theres no indication in either directions we really don't know.

Grimmer still: maybe she had to order the execution of the previous team, since they lost their minds after the last mission?

@@_elitenightmare4794 I personally dont think anyone is compromised, i do genuinely see it as a potential intentional misdirection to make ppl start having suspicions for it to go nowhere with those character. And it’s just there to hint at something in the future instead

@_elitenightmare4794 the lore tab says, "He clips the talisman onto his jacket as the rest of his fireteam has." I feel that means all 3 have one.

So the connection could be made that the veil is part of a dead creature that's storing memories of some kind, i wonder if this is where it's leading.

@@squadass99 I think you're half-right. New logs about the Veil indicate a strange influence on the mind. Veil is going to have something to do with the mind.

@@ChaosTheory0 It absolutely does have something to do with the mind, it's exciting to start seeing all the pieces come together about the veil. almost tempting to look through the datamines for answers but i'm remaining strong to see it paly out in game.

Could also be Nezarec idk

@@ali18y84 What would the E and V stand for?

considering we've beat him, and more powerful beings than him, i think we'd be just fine beatnig oryx again. at this point he's not the biggest and baddest threat we've killed

@@ready1player31 He was still one of the biggest threats we ever faced.

@@ready1player31 We may have killed him but he still caused immense damages and traumas. Also, an Oryx with the Light would probably be at a whole other level of power than what we fought until then.

Its worth noting that Savathun didn't predict he would come back, it was part of 2 truths 2 lies. The options were as follows: 1) Mercury, Io, Titan were owned by Savathun 2) The Witness returned Mars to your solar system 3) The Power to move worlds with soon be yours 4) The Taken King will rise again We know 2 is true, and 3 could be referring to the planets encounter (though its hard to tell how much raid mechanics play into this). I also think its important to recognize that Savathun did not say Oryx, she said the Taken King, which could even imply a successor to Oryx rather then himself.

​@@alderstifen7738 well said. Honestly I think they'll bring his remains up from the deep, and they'll say "look, told you he would rise again"! 😂 I wouldn't put it past bungie lol

I agree. In addition, to my knowledge Oryx is the ONLY entity to have actually spoken face to face with the Witness, outside of the disciples. That in and of itself could be valuable information.

I just had the craziest idea on how Cayde is back in the Final Shape. Nightmares are a product of darkness and Ikora is unlikely to study how to wield darkness based powers herself being the Warlock Vanguard. But Ikora's specific Nightmare is Cayde and Nezerac's conciousness/Power became concentrated near the Veil; Likely due to Osiris being there. What if Ikora goes to Neomuna to visit Osiris and inspect the Veil herself. Only when she gets too close to the Veil Nightmare Cayde appears from her shadow making the Light/Dark Connection and transporting them both to the other side of the portal. Which in turn, much like weapon crafting, makes the Nightmare of Cayde into a physical copy of Ikora's memory of Cayde. Ikora is very perceptive and knew Cayde very well, even the parts of himself he would hide from most others. She would know him almost as well as he knew himself. The Dark makes the form and memory while the Light makes the physical body from the form for the memories to inhabit. Even recreating The Ace of Spades, a gun closely associated with Cayde's former life's Son. Now my only question; Is the Light cracked Ace of Spades the latest Sentient Weapon containing the actual Ace? That would be pretty messed up and dark, so perhaps it contains Cayde instead and would be a Darkness made duplicate of the original but blessed and imbued with Caydes Light (As in his entire life as a Guardian). Sort of a cross between the Travellers chosen and the Wormlauncher...

@@soulsurvivor8293 I’m not sure about this theory, Ikora seemed to talk to Cayde like he was the actual CAYDE-6, because she said “You’ve missed a lot”. Meaning she is referring to the actual cayde missing what has happened after his death. Plus, if Cayde became a memory like shape after Ikora being transported, he would look like the Memories of Uldren or Ghaul at the end of Season of the Haunted, and not like a with pure light imbued Guardian. So I doubt this theory.

@@soulsurvivor8293 Leaks already confirmed it’s our dead Cayde-6 in a valley of time inside the traveler where all space and time collapses on itself

You explained the "Godzilla Threshold" and my mind jumped to Dame Judi Dench in the second Riddick film (technically the first film that carries the name "Riddick" on the box) saying "In normal times, evil would be fought by good. But in times like these, well... it should be fought by another kind of evil." Attached a video with the voice line I'm talking about ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rrtpOVTX5NA.html

Oryx would probably hate his ressurection due to his MASSIVE distain for the light

​@@lukethepotatoking keep in mind, when resurrected with the light you lose your memories. Even savathun forgot her plans before we helped her remember

@@Stereo-hb2lobut remember she did plan that happing to her

Having oryx pull a crow while guided by savathun would be a good set of lore if they don't fumble it

Is it possible that touch of malice is keeping the body alive somehow? I'm just taking the concept that Oryx had about the gun granting him immortaily more litteral.

Strongest enemy? Nah Rhulk Stomps him easily

@@memecrider3585 Really wouldn't say easily bro

@@memecrider3585 Rhulk has, arguably, more direct access to a wider variety of Dark powers, but Oryx has demonstrably greater feats, of the two.

​@@memecrider3585 Oryx killed a worm God, as far as scaling goes we know Rhulk was capable of the same. At the end of the day, they both died to us. So they are realistically even lol

​@@ImQuantumby that logic calus robot is oryx level, rhulk dunks on oryx

You already used this one in the final shape reveal trailer.

@@Banana-Boi it’s a quote you absolute pebble.

@@hellaboveme500 So? Doesn't mean it can't be repetitive. He's the D2 meme guy he can come up with something new.

​@@hellaboveme500this in no way should be an insult but just had me in stitches. Totally nicking this 😂😂😂😂

​@@Banana-Boi ever seen Ice Age: Dawn of the Dinosaurs?

Maybe in The Final Shape we will finally ascend his throne, and that will be our way to enter the portal!😮

I'm sorry our legend began with Oryx? Not taking out the black heart in the black garden?

@@ZLunareI got the sense that no one but a few exceptions knew it was us who destroyed the black heart

​@@ZLunare ppl during d1 didn't know shit. Ever review talking about the end boss fight simply went "you shoot this black thing and that's the" story " guys destiny sucks and they didn't deliver on any story"

I mean the reason why sevu arath is so mad at us is because we didn’t follow the sword logic and take oryx’s place after beating him, I think it’s found in the dungeon dialogue itself, so we kinda have to

Oryx is also called "the King of Shapes", and could show up either during or after the Final Shape.

You have to get the dungeon exotic to play the next dlc.

go check out ikoras shredded hidden reports from witch queen collectors edition, people have compiled the notes, they're pretty cool

From a lore standpoint, they were probably labeled like that to indicate the age. Aurash was the Oldest and Xi Ro was the youngest putting Sathona in the middle

Preach. I have been saying he will be back for years.

​@@bigmol1633 same bro that toland line from patrols on the moon had me calling this shit for awhile

Glad I'm not the only one who misses Daddy Oryx

Dude i just saw you in the comments of the faze video from a little bit ago haha

@@BDubMakes I just want him that bad

They cannot survive on their own - even the Worm Gods depend on the tribute system. Oryx's Worm would need to either find a new host, or it was preserved in some sort of special container (like Parasite GL). But I agree that it could pose a huge problem for us in the future...

What if Ahsa is lying and she is the worm? She could have been using Sloane's fight on the Hive/Taken to feed

@@grzegorzflorek5623 Even if it is dead, Savathun’s worm shows that hive worms can be revived even if separated from their host, at least until given a new host like with Parasite as you mentioned. In that case then, maybe it’s less a question of where is the worm, and more “who has it?” Which is even more ominous to consider.

​@@halberd-3291 AYOOOOOO THAT GIANT WORM SWIMMING IN TITAN WAAAY LONG AGO

@@grzegorzflorek5623what if it crawl out and just started killing for itself.

It's very unlikely they would store Oryx's remains anywhere near Savathûn's. They will probably move it to a hidden site elsewhere in Sol. As stated, they will use robot frames and other (probably remote controlled) mechanical means to handle the corpse. Given it's Calcification of memory fragments, its not safe to move or be near it at all. Especially if said individual knows where they are moving the remains is in close proximity, it could easily leave a Calcified fragment of the location. From whats said, they appear to be well aware of the dangers. They seem to have appropriate measures to mitigate, if not eliminate, the threats associated to the remains. The very nature of Oryx's power and remains is a far different prospect to the Lucent Savathûn. How they "Imprison" evil Risen, Warlords, Dregen, Guardians or even the Lucent Savathûn is specific to light bearers. So it's not likely they will employ similar means, let alone place his remains in the same location as the Light bearers. It simply just wouldn't make sense to do so.

I like this, or looking at it from the other side, what if they are ‘… of the taken king’ because WE (the guardian) have them now and somehow have taken the place as new king?

@@themanwithamission Xivu expresses great distress and disappointment that we didn’t assume the mantle of Taken King. we hear her say it in the dungeon via calcified fragment.

More likely that Savathun tricks Xivu into sacrificing herself while Oryx wants to take over for the Witness, so they've all got different motivations for taking out the Witness.

@@mrsocko316 yeah that works too, I was just saying how id want it to end lol

Sort of like how Darkseid was massacring everyone in Justice League Dark: Apokolips War, and so the heroes had to resort to freeing Trigon to stall/distract Darkseid, and then had to cast the two gods into a pocket dimension to save their own universe. Guardians getting their enemy to help them fight an even greater enemy/threat.

I think maybe humans are the final shape, fighting against the Winnower's, Witness' and the Hives ideology of sword logic (ending in finding the 'final shape') all while unintentionally being the best example of that sword logic as we've defeated everything thats come up.

​@@jonrutherford2966The Vex kinda have everyone beat realistically, they literally wrote themselves into existence not using any paracausal forces. So no matter what they will always exist in some form or another at some time or another. Even pasacausal forces haven't been able to alter that fact, it seems doubtful that even the Witness's plans can change that. Mind you, also consider the similarities between the Witness and the Vex. It's quite plausible that the Witness is their collective conciousness and they are It's physical body/s. Each separated from one another but both seem to be a seperate collective of entities unto themselves. The Witness even assisted them and seems to be able to co-ordinate/controll the Sol Divisive somewhat directly through the variation of darkness inhabited Vex minds. I say the Witness seems to have no physical presence as it was entirely unaffected by the Travellers Light/life beam and never seems to physically interact with anything. Appearing in shattered glass projections and within peoples minds, remotely controlling or speaking through things like the Calcified Worm Familiar and our Ghost. Sending Disciples and minions to do anything that requires physical interaction rather than doing it themselves. They can only seem to interact with the physical universe by use of their powers, but not by touching anything with their actual visually seen bodily form. Where as the Vex exclusively use physically tangible means to interact with ecmverything. They have a seemingly perfect understanding of the physical universe and how to apply that knowledge to even time travel and generate the insane power requirements to achieve similar levels of power to what throw round with easy. They have technologies well beyond that of any othher species. Transmats that have longer distances & even through time itself, robotics & cybernetic interfaces beyond compression, layering their simulated realities anywhere & anywhen in the phsyical universe to overwrite reality itself and even creating work abounds for various causal paradoxes. All without paracausal power. The one thing they don't have and simply cannot comprehend. They needed to write in a contingency for the infinete recursive attempt's to rationalise paracausal powers and dedicate an entire Vex Mind and Sect to just stripping Saint-14 of his light, which took an eternity of Saint fighting them to achieve. Even then, that method of stripping away the light would only work on Saint-14, not other paracausal entities. Most of the Data on how the Vex Mind achieved this died with it, even the Data they managed to retain is now useless as us literally breaking time and arriving to save Saint introduced an uncomprehendable & Insurmountable quantiy of new paracausal variables. Honestly, I think the Vex Conclave simply gave up trying to understand paracausal forces after that, they likely still measure & record instances of it. That data likely the only data they allow the Sol Divisive access too. While they shun and actively avoid the Sol Divisive, the Conclave would just let the Sol Divisive deal with trying to comprehend paracausality out of convenience and as a means of bargaining should the Divisives analysis yield results. Which would also free the Conclaves Minds and Sects up for other tasks and such. Quite possibly using the time to build up a massive force and collection of simulations to launch simultaneous offensives across all of time and space. Calculating and coordinating a single full spectrum offensive that is fully integrated cohesively without paradoxes would likely take up most of their processing and resources. Attempting to hack into and use the Cloudarks processing would undoubtedly speed up the proces. Meanwhile the Sol Divisive would likely want to use to understand paracausality and have a deeper connection to their deity the Witness. Sorry for the excessive ramble...

I like this theory a lot. It could be possible through multiple means

This is also interesting because WE have Oryx's soul, in the Touch of Malice, also, the new dungeon exotic is literally The Navigator, and is a darkness energy type. I'd be interested to see how us having his soul plays out in the future.

The theory pans out. When reborn in light, you forget all that you were and become all that you will be. The only reason Savathun remembered her past is because her past self created avenues through which she could remember all that she had forgotten. Oryx doesn't have that. Atleast not for that purpose. He would be revived with no recollection of who he was or why he was. He would simply be a manifestation of the core tenants that made him who he was. Whether that made him an ally though is impossible to say

Could be interesting, especially given that Auryx tried to make peace with the Ammonites in the Hive's earliest days. And his worm is gone, meaning it won't be able to force him to follow the sword logic if he should be resurrected. All the same, it's a massive gamble to be taking with one of the most powerful beings (if not the most powerful) we've ever faced.

That’s not bad, fits right into the FEN, CHA, ERI theme with the fireteam

​@@jonathandavis7048True, but what makes Fenchurch's Ghost worthy of being singled out like this? Neville would need to have a unique quality to be singled out like this. If it was simply that Oryx's remains had similar qualities to Ghosts more broadly then it makes no sense to single Neville out like this over just saying "Ghosts". If he is in fact singling out Neville, then it's more likely that Neville has become infected by the remains. Either directly or through his connection to Fenchurch. Which brings up the question of what particular race of human id Chalco? Fenchurch is an Awoken while Lisbon is an Exo. Is Chalco a Human, Exo or an Awoken? Chalco being an Exo may explain a particular resistance to the remains corrupting effect. While Chalco being a Human would indicate that the Awoken have a higher vulnerability to it. If Chalco is also Awoken, then it may indicate the specific interaction of Fenchurch touching the egragore coral may have led to the infection of Neville. None the less, it's far more likely that the NEV tag is Neptune Entity/Entry: Veil - (number).

Furthermore, if anyone's Ghost is going to be uniquely similar to Oryx's remains; It would be Drifters. It practically cannibalised other ghosts and merged with parts of those dark beasts Drifter encountered. His Ghost hasn't been anything close to "Normal" ever since then.

​@@soulsurvivor8293 Chalco can't be an Exo, or there would be a number following her name. I'm not sure if it's ever specified in lore whether she's human or Awoken. I'm inclined to the former for a few reasons, most notably that her name, Chalco Yong, seems more linguistically similar to other human names than to Awoken names. But that's entirely unsubstantiated conjecture on my part.

This plus the fact that with how little characterization Oryx received (outside of the books of sorrow) theres a lot of potential in the idea of him grappling with everything thats happened and his faith being a lie, as well as figuring out what the Hive are supposed to do without the Sword Logic ruling over them

Isn't xivu the god of war? I do agree, there is just soooo much lore into them, when say compared to the cabal, which is a whole faction, yet this is 3 member of a faction. I like the idea of there being a 3rd, which is us! Now we are comfortably welding darkness and light, we might well be that person already.

In the old World of Darkness table top rpg setting, there's three cosmological "entities" that make up reality, the wyld, the weaver and the wyrm. The wild is unrestrained creative chaos, it creates instinctively but without plan. The weaver is order, it neither creates nor destroys, but preserves the things the wyld makes. The Wyrm is entropy, it unmakes the things the Weaver has solidified when their time is due and then the cycle of creation, preservation and destruction begins again. (Except in the creation myth of the setting the Weaver gets annoyed about the Wyrm destroying all her cool stuff and wraps it in her webs, driving it mad and changing it from normal entropy in to mad Corruption, thus making it a source of evil etc etc etc) Applying this concept to Destiny, the Traveller is the Wyld, and the Witness represents the corrupted Wyrm, a force of omnicidal destruction. So Where's the equivalent force of the Weaver? It doesn't match 100% of course because they're different settings, but i thought the comparison was interesting

@@SymbioteMullet The Witness is the Wyrm and the Weaver. It wants to irredicate everything, but wants to control, how creation and destruction works. No chaotic life, just existing and destruction. A more simple and controllable state for the universe.

common misconception but "bomb logic" isn't a thing, or at least is not a light-oriented concept to counter the sword logic. the sword logic isn't even something the witness prescribes to, it's a warping of the witness's ideals by the hive. bomb logic was a concept that was thought up by mara as a means to beat the cold ruthlessness of the sword logic, but it's not like "the traveler has bomb logic and the witness has sword logic" or something.

Someone else posted that there's a Scout Rifle called Royal Chase with a lore entry explaining that Oryx's body was being monitored but had not actually entered Saturn's upper atmosphere yet when the Witness took the planets and moons, and the gravitational pull associated with taking something of that size pulled Oryx's corpse to Titan. I cannot verify this information right now because I'm writing this at 5am in the morning for me and I'm more exhausted than a wheel right now (cause they're always "tire'd" hahaha I'll see myself out)

Didn't we kill quoria? Season of the splicer.

@@AnonymousTakenGhost we did but the head didnt explode like a normal hydra

quria is dead, the only part of oryx contained in the touch of malice is his heart. i'll repeat it as much as it needs repeating, the touch of malice isn't a way to revive oryx, the "i will live on through you" stuff is just a passing of the torch of his ideology. to craft the touch of malice required to learn his history and mantle his ideals to forge all the pieces of it.

That is really interesting. Maybe that’s why the ritual wasn’t working while they were down there. Oryx doesn’t want to come back. He may not be alive, but his body is his thought and his thought is that he should be dead

in which lore book does he mention his other son? This makes sense to me as Oryx is a sword logic fanatic and would deem himself unworthy of seeing the final shape

Which would summon Xivu meaning check mate anyway

Throw it into the sun

@@tank_dempsey Or Drifter’s frying pan. I hear he’s always wanted to cook a Hive god.

If we can destroy it it’s gotta be away to 101% destroy no sliver remain just incase that sliver can be used to revive oryx.

I like this.

THAT'S WHY ONLY IKORA IS IN THE TRAILER, it is a secret operation of the hidden, so it makes a LOT of sense of why zavala and other guardians aren't there.

You might be onto something, Sloane had said that when she got infected by the taken to have access to their intel, the light from her ghost and herself was TEMPORARILY holding the infection off. However, we as a guardian do not only have light inside of us, as Stasis for example is a product of our Guardian’s Darkness and our Ghosts Light. And Strand being visible to us is for the exact same reason. Due to this Darkness inside us, we might be prone to being taken, but can resist it’s dominating influence, thus giving us the power to enter the traveler. Ikora’s rage, sadness, and despair over Cayde might be her version of the Darkness inside her being able to fend off the Taken, and wherever she is in that teaser, might’ve cured the Taken infection, as Cayde is shown CLEARLY with PURE LIGHT in his eyes, body and Ace of Spades. Ikora may not have been able to indulge in such Light due to the taken infection and darkness also acting as a buffer.

@@_elitenightmare4794 which subsequently leads to us learning to use these “taken” powers as our final subclass. Shit writes itself

Maybe the creature in Titans depths is a distraction and Oryx is actually the enemy of the Witness on Titan, as upon his return he becomes Lucent and helps to fight the Witness with Savathun, using the Taken against the Witness on some way.

Enjoy spending more and more money!

Waaaait. I have a worse idea. We have the Parasite. Put Savathûn's Worm in Oryx's body...

@@SymbioteMullet That is just the definition of asking for a disaster…

I also saw that and was very confused

The Witness gifted us Stasis, the power to make things unchanging. I think you may be on the money.

@Symbiote Mullet the thing is, technically Stasis crystals do display a sort of "quantum computation" despite their stillness, which could be comparable to cognition. But honestly, I don't know what would be worse, being totally dead with absolutely nothing happening ever again, or being aware and driven insane by being locked into "perfection" for an eternity with no hope of change, or death. Suddenly the Light allowing for a little chaos and failure, and death, doesn't exactly sound like a great argument for why we or anyone should side with the Witness...

Yes, a ghost can resurrect a braindead body, that’s how we, guardians are resurrected! Because the light only manifests itself in the physical world, resurrected guardians don’t remember their past life due to darkness not being tied into their resurrection. That’s why Crow didn’t remember anything until he came in contact with the Crown of Sorrow and the Nightmares of Uldren. If a ghost were to bring Oryx back now however, he would remember everything due to the Taken and Darkness energy still resonating in his body, thus keeping his consciousness within that energy, and outing it as calcified memory fragments. The fact that Oryx can still pick up information, seems to me like he’s in more of a coma than actually dead. And the Taken and Darkness energy inside him is keeping his body AND MIND preserved.

Also, the current theory on the Witness’ intentions of the “Final Shape” is that the Witness is trying to lay contact between the Darkness’ Mental existence and the Light’s physical manifestations, thus explaining the link, using the veil because it is both Light and Dark, this also explains how the veil is organic, it uses light manifestations to create its fungus like form, and the darkness is used to store the Neomuni’s minds, connecting these with the cloudark, the veil is the perfect example of light and dark manifesting its own reality. The Witness’ “Final Shape”, is to reshape reality to it’s own will, his own world according to his mind, using the Traveler’s Light to bring that mental reality into the physical world. Like how the Veil connected to the CloudArk to form the digital world, partially formed by the Neomuni’s own will in their mind, connecting to the Veil’s Darkness, and the Veil’s physical shape of a fungus like shape being created from the light.

@_EliteNightmare crow got his memory back from making contact with Savathûn in season of the Lost, and her presumably using Deepsight on him. His contact with the crown of sorrow wasn't until 6 months later.

Nah. Xivu considers Savathun a traitor, which she is, and won't listen to her. As for Oryx idk. But I would've destroyed Oryx's body

@@mp6732 xivu follows whatever oryx says as seen in the calcified fragments. If oryx helps the traveller, xivu will too.

@@mp6732 they should’ve destroyed both Savathuns and oryx’s bodies but ikora wants to keep them for some reason and I think the twist will be savathun will come back but will be on our side and it’ll be a Ciatil and calus situation all over again

Or the other way around. With ol' Drifter there really is no way of knowing for certain.

That sword could only be called "Logic"

@@SymbioteMullet We actually already have a sword named logic sorta There is a ornament for the Lament called "The Logic" I 100% want a Oryx sword that looks like the strand sword from this season

I love the idea of one of the greatest threats to humanity returning just because we wouldn’t part with our cool gun

All the hive have natural forces evolution when there main body or avatar dies outside of thron world they gain immunity to whatever killed them b4 oryx has a advanced version of this I mean he is the hive god of death also he died bc he wanted to but his body was to powerful to die even at like 10 percent power full power oryx is insane while his sisters where in black holes for millions n millions of years he was fighting n growing stronger thats how he got so much bigger then them

He would get his memories back eventually all hive pantheons including xivu and savathuns hive respect oryx of extreme high regard n it makes sense I mean he is their god so they would take him in and give them his memories back then he would be a problem

Last year in Season of the Risen, we came to know that Savathûn used psychic projections to control her Lucent Hive. It is very much possible that had her Hive resurrected Oryx, she would've projected herself into his mind as well to do her bidding. Echtar, who is shown in the dungeon, is Oryx's Sword from the TTK dlc, and he is alive and has the title as something of Savathûn, despite Savathûn being technically dead. So it can be concluded that she still holds a grip over the Lucent Hive mentally despite her body being dead and under hold.

Remember, the Hive have already given themselves a loophole in the Logic to excuse the attempt. Effectively, "If it is heresy it will fail, if it works it can't be heresy" or something close to that. Basically if they try and nothing happens, they didn't actually do anything heretical because the Logic holds strong, and if they succed then the Logic is less restrictive than they thought and they've changed it, meaning what they just did can't be heretical

You're forgetting that there are two completely separate factions of Hive at this point, the OG and the Lucent Hive/Savathun's Brood. One has had millions of years of indoctrination to reject ressurection, necromancy, etc etc, and the other basically worship the Traveler and Savathun specifically at this point, who always questioned the Sword Logic, specifically recruited Nokris to learn necromancy, and is herself ressurected in the Light. Don't get me wrong, it's very much an open question whether Oryx will stick with his principles and will basically commit "unaliving" if he is revived because he's the one that championed the idea that necromancy and ressurection was heresy, or if exposure to the forgetting that the Light provides will let him at least explore the possibility he was wrong and stick around. Also, yes, the Witness is out to kill everyone and everything in the universe, and we need more allies (or enemies of the Witness at least) than not at this point. Anyone who still can't see that as the Witness's objective, I've personally got a bridge to sell them.

Well the Lucent Hive don't really follow the sword logic as strictly as "normal" hive, not to mention Hive Necromancy is blasphemous to the sword logic completely.

@@kyleespinoza7201 ty for lengthy response, only been following the lore for a month or so! Very interesting.

@matthew knowles welcome to the asylum then! Going down the rabbit holes are fun, but don't forget to touch some grass every once in a while

Theres also a chance Xivu claimed it given her frequent visits, or it simply died and faded away given the dissolution of Oryx's tithing servants and the time passed since Oryx's death.

Mara’s motivations have always been uncertain but I find it hard to believe she’s interested in taking up the mantle of monarch of the taken in oryx’s place. The taken are something tied solely to the darkness ie the witness and Mara hasn’t shown any interest in playing to the witness’s favor. Hive magic, the ability to take or any other power that puts her in service of the witness goes against her only 100% confirmed interest, that being her own and that of the awoken people. Not saying she has no use for it but following in oryx’s footsteps doesn’t seem like her style.

@@dumbsterdives I doubt it, Xivu expressed great disappointment that WE didn’t assume the mantle of Taken King, according to the sword logic, only we, the beings who slew Oryx, could assume his mantle. Until we are slain of course.

Yep he's a known member of the hidden

I brought it along on my first run hoping for this

Oryx was against necromancy and so wouldn’t have planned to be resurrected should he die. Hence why he banished his son Nokris for experimenting with necromancy

The very fact the body isn't dead gives me major anxiety where ever it's contained they better really really contain it well that's like keter/ applyon level in S.C.P terms

@@johngancarcik5682 what's keter buddy ?

@@yagamilight775 bad it can't easily be contained and needs constant surveillance with special requirements needed

This is good stuff!