Destiny 2 Lore - The big problem with the Vex as a faction that Bungie needs to address... 

Maybe I'm getting fantastical, but I imagine a Vex storyline where we need to convince the Vex collective mind that WE are the beings they should align themselves with to survive, leading to a multi-faction raid in which the Vex throw us into various encounters with other solutions they have, either mighty foes or sorts of contingency plans to defeat, maybe culminating in either us fighting a Vex-simulated version of the Witness or a simulation of the Vex itself to finally prove ourselves as ultimate victors.

I've never seen the Vex as villains per se; they are more of an existential threat akin to a disease. They follow similar patterns in my eyes: a simple narrow focus on 'self' preservation, and they do that through 'mutations' (the Vex divisions). In this way I think it's better to view then as whole instead of building an identifiable villain/opponent. Let them be a force that marches on ceaselessly and let us find or make a division that changes how they interpret their goal: one where they can exist in a way but in cooperation with the rest of life.

Whenever I think about the future of the vex in destiny, I always think back to what Calus said in the season of Opulence. “The mightiest Vex you have felled are but farmers, engineers, managers. The day they send real warriors…”

If we remember Calus’ words, supposedly the Vex that we have faced are the likes of Managers and gardeners, along with saying that we have yet to actually face their true warriors.

The funniest part though, is I kind of like that about the vex, they are purely mathematical in their aggression, and it's terrifying because they have no malice. The thing that is so disturbing about them, is because they are effectively just deleting files in the universe, it's not that they hate you, it's that it's that easy for them

I've been thinking this a bit honestly. They have no truly distinct entities within their ranks that have any character. I think having an explination of the Vex only really sending their foot soldiers and their processing power/officers (Minds) to the System and holding their actual Characters outside the System in the wider universe.

I don’t know. I personally really like that the vex are truly alien compared to all the other races. Giving them a personality or a central character that talks or makes jokes would kinda ruin that.

The Vex are my favorite faction for this exact reason. They are the only faction that are not at all linked to Paracausal forces. In my opinion they are the wildcard faction. They operate on logic we don’t fully understand meaning they don’t really fall neatly into the developing light vs dark dynamic. Yes some Vex calculated that joining the Witness is the best avenue for survival but others minds made different calculations or haven’t needed to make that calculation at all yet. For me that’s what keeps them interesting even without actual characters. They are their own faction not really fighting for light or dark.

I mean by definition Vex would lack villains, heroes, or interesting characters. Their existence negates the possibility. There are now a very few examples that have isolated personalities. It would be awesome if Asher's joining with them created a Light based Vex group. I'd love to see Asher turned into a Light sub mind. Future of the Vex is going to be split. Dark/Light/Neutral factions. The Light faction will likely be the smallest.

I just want the black garden as a patrol zone, honestly.

I don’t agree that they need a more human personality to be a villain, their role as the ultimate causal force is enough for me.

The Vex are very interesting because I personally believe that they don't need many "characters" to actually make good stories. Star Trek has made very good stories related to the Borg, and the Vex already have a leg up over the Borg by giving them Minds and Axis Minds at the start. Quria was an opportunity to have a Vex Mind with some semblance of personality, but obviously Splicer cut its life too short. Should it return with its data intact though, I could see a reborn Quria as a potential character, as it's not exactly aligned with the Network entirely. Next are obviously the converted. Kabr shows a weird case of conversion where they're kinda... half and half. It's strange but that could lead to something. Probably not much since the Vex Network holds the ultimate reign over individual units. Those white eyed Vex emphasized in Aspect and via the friendly Harpies are probably a lot more sinister in design than we would at first think. We could pull a Seven of Nine and pry a Vex from the Network, as that would give us a truly unique unit that does not have to follow the path of Convergence. The Vex probably won't give us much malice or outwardly antagonistic aspects, as the Winnower, the Witness, and every other villain does, but they can absolutely give us a simple, yet effective, cold and calculating presence. Alien, but horrifyingly so, like they are in the lore. With the Light and Dark Saga coming to a close, it means that the lives of the Gardener and Winnower, and their most powerful prophets and delegates, would possibly close with it. We can hurt the Vex. We have hurt them. But the Darkness could've ended them, and we're about to stop the Pyramids. So, once they're all gone or otherwise defeated... Convergence becomes so much easier. Oh, and there's also the First Program mentioned in the Deep Conversation Adventure on Nessus. We don't know anything about it. Perhaps the original Vex Mind, perhaps the first action of the Vex as a whole. We don't need to relate to them, we don't even need to empathize or sympathize. Sometimes, all that's needed is simplicity.

I think it's important to avoid what happened to the Borg in star trek, where in giving them a queen or something along those lines you don't lose what made them interesting in the first place

The VEX are my favorite Destiny race. I like to think of them as the antivirus of the universe. Attempting to bring the Destiny universe into order that the Traveler and Witness interrupted by becoming players in the universe

Haven’t watched through all of this, but getting back into the separate FACTIONS of the Vex, would be good ground to get back into again. It does feel like this will become a necessary lore/story beat moving forward. Because how do you have, what is supposed to be, a singular consciousness/mind, WHY do we have separate sub minds making choices?

I feel like bungie have further stepped away from the idea of giving the vex subminds different personalities, or functions, because in the last few seasons they use the basic vex submind appearance for every single vex. They even changed how the harpy’s and goblins originally looked in VOG, removing their white stripes. The fallen have this same issue. They all wear the same attire, purple and blue, no matter their faction. When I heard we’d be fighting the house of devils in the Zavala sever missions, I got excited… but low behold they used the regular fallen skin for all of the grunt enemies. Same for the cabal… they all use the red war skins, even though most of the cabal we fight don’t align with the red legion anymore. I wish Bungie would invest some money into evolving the look of our enemies, because they’ve look the same since the start of D2, which came out in 2017. Pretty ridiculous.

I’ve never understood how planet shaping, time travelling, unending armies having faction has not curb stomped Guardians yet. It’s canonical that they can be killed.

I would potentially take the Vex the route of the Necrons from Warhammer 40k. What would be interesting if they had leaders which weren’t Vex or were hyper intelligent AI warlords with personalities.

I feel like it’s because every time we see them, they get stomped. I want the cold atrocities that led to Elsie calling the vex, “evil so dark, it despises other evil.”

I wonder if Asher's nature as a paracausal being bonds with the Vex, perhaps he can paracausally bestow genuine sapience and personality on them, causing their Axis Minds to develop into more personable entities.

I’m split on the idea that the Vex need a voice. While in terms of lore The Witness is the most “Eldritch”, the Vex fit the definition better, and I kind of prefer it that way. But if the Vex had a few figures with defined personalities like the Necrons from Warhammer 40k, they would have more potential for stories to be told.

I’ve been thinking that when the Witness arrives, a single Vex mind will realize how utterly powerless they are and side with the City, if only to maximize their odds of survival. In this way, with the Lucent Brood, we’d have a small portion of each of Destiny’s original four enemy races as allies.

PERSONELY,I have always loved the vex above all the other factions BECAUSE they aren't the stereotypical mustache twirling "I am gong to win so submit" villain AND because they are alien even when compared to the other races. They are cold and calculating and I find that terrifying and interesting. All the other enemies in destiny(Yes not even the witness and its disciples) haven't even come close to peeking my interest and made me genuinely concerned(if not afraid). They do not see the need for art, communication or many other things found in civilizations...and THAT is why I love them, because they're so different.

Something I never see anyone talk about it how the vex of the infinite forest had found a future void of life without light or darkness. Could the vex know a way to beat the witness?

I would love to have an offshoot of Vex that starts working cooperatively with us, but for reasons we can't explain. They don't communicate the way we do, and we obviously can't get any info out of a random goblin, so the mystery becomes trying to discern their intentions, and even how much force they have backing them. Imagine that Goblins start showing up on the outskirts of the city or in less defended Places of Interest, but instead of an invading force, it's one or two units just cleaning/repairing random things and then leaving by sunrise, and steadily more non-combatants start showing up and performing random repairs, and even defending humans from small attacks to the point where some even start to trust them. I'd love to hear Mithrax's thoughts on potentially accepting a faction of Vex after the City's eventual acceptance of the Eliksni, especially since the circumstances are very different. After all, are they REALLY disconnected from the rest of the collective? There are plenty of possible motivations. Are they being controlled by a secret ally like Asher Mir? Are they being sent as spies by The Witness, or as a contingent against him in case he loses? Are they fully severed from the Collective and acting independently (and was it The Light that did it?) or are they just on an exploratory mission from the whole, probing for weaknesses? Are they 100% genuine in their attempts to make contact? Is it an attempt to trick the Traveler into granting them The Light? Bungie could really take it in whatever direction they wanted, and make it a real mystery.

My lord, imagine if Durandal manages to cameo his way into a Vex Mind. "Survive past the heat death of the universe" is his main goal after all.

personally I really like the inhuman design of the vex. One of the biggest letdowns for me personally is that the darkness has a figurehead, the witness. I personally really appreciate the feeling of having a faceless and mysterious evil, like the vex are, like the darkness was.

I would personally love to see a sect of vex that chose the light in the same way the sol divisive chose the darkness. There must be at least ONE mind that has at least considered worshiping the traveler. Especially considering the traveler seems to be mechanical in nature. We could even have the two sects of vex clash.

The future I see for them comes from the parts of Clovis Bray's journal talking about Maya Sundaresh. He was infected with Vex and began to hallucinate Sundaresh's presence as a key member of his team. The Sundaresh he saw was one of the copies of her the Vex simulated with changes made to it so that it was Vex. It was one of the few (possibly the only?) time that we've actually heard the Vex speak. Similar things could work in the future if you wanted actual characters from them. Everything about the Vex from that book was really cool. I remember the fake Sundaresh saying something to the effect of Vex not being what something was but a description of what something did. The Vex spread themselves by cracking the ice of Europa in a specific pattern and by manipulating radio static to carry the same pattern. Because those patterns did Vex things, they were themselves Vex. Really cool and horrifying stuff.

Drifter said it best when he said... When you kill a Vex have you truly killed it? Or does it get rebuilt? Osiris also had a great point about them... The Vex are the most dangerous foe because they do not tire like everyone else. Finally Drifter again said the Vex we fought are only scouts and engineers the real war units we have yet to see.... Scary stuff All that I love the fact they are an ambiguous faceless foe. To me that makes them more scary and dangerous like the Borg before they introduced the queen. They are so logical and direct yet have abilities that baffle even us without a central figure to guide them. As good as that sounds to me I recognize the pitfall that brings to the story which sets itself up to be an endless fight with a faceless foe. Bungie needs to do this carefully.

Iirc, the Drifter has a recent line in Gambit where he mentions the different Vex subtypes starting to come together lately. It seems that they already are starting to pool their resources. That said, I'm sort of against the idea of having a singular Vex mind being in control. I think them being a collective that is focused solely on converting the universe makes them more interesting as a faction. I don't want every alien faction to be "humanized".

Honestly, despite the overwhelming odds, I think it'd be incredible if Rasputin somehow took control of the entirety of the Vex and allied them with us in our fight against the Witness. If not Rasputin, maybe Asher Mir, who knows?

The vex are so interesting, yet the most under-used (in my opinion) faction in the game right now. I would be FAR more motivated to keep up with destiny if we explored the vex more. I REALLY hope they have a more involved part of the story as we approach lightfall and the final battle with the witness. (whether they be an unexpected ally or separate "third party" that gets involved as we fight between the darkness's final shape, the vex's goal of eternal survival, or humans/allys fight for survival and against the darkness)

One of my favorite analogies for Cosmicism is from Animorphs, where the narrator compared fighting higher-dimensional beings as "an ant on a chessboard". We're the ant, gazing up at indistinct giants randomly slamming pieces down around us. But to the chessmasters, every piece moved is following patterns and tactics. We cannot understand the Vex because they exist at a level beyond individual consciousness, and experience time nonlinearly. Or as the Reapers put it in Mass Effect: "There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own, you cannot even fathom it."

Id like to see the vex generate a villain like the gravemind from halo. Its a bad dude that needs to go, but will work with you when it has to, and will betray you once you're no longer useful. I really liked how it would talk to you through all of the nearby flood

Out of the bunch, the Vex are definitely my personal favorite faction, although they are sorely lacking in terms of characterization. I think that if Bungie wants to make sure the Vex remain compelling, they need to venture into interactions with them we haven't seen before. Way back in season of opulence, Calus said that thus far, we have only faced and fought their equivalent to farmers. If that is so, I think It's about time we really met some of the Vex that are really running the show. Not only that, we need to understand their personal motivations. We get what they are in a broad sense, but that alone isn't really enough for us to understand what their real drive is to do what they do. Survival, sure, but that really can't be all they need or want.

I would like to see something along the lines of the Geth from the Mass Effect games where a large majority of them are corrupted, mindless machines like the ones who followed the reapers but some of them were able to rebel and fight off the indoctrination with those ones deciding to actually help in humanity’s fight for survival, the geth and vex are actually very similar in that they are a hive mind of highly intelligent and calculating machines so I think it’s possible that just like in Mass Effect there could be a small group of vex that splinter off because they hold different ideals and views than the rest and this group unlike the vex might see the darkness as a threat and humanity an ally.

When it comes to writing the Vex, you have to treat it like you would any force of nature. Zombies would be the closest example. I don’t think they need a leader.

Byf: What if we get a sort of Overmind? Me: Timestalker of the Vex. The Overmind Minotaur.

Quira was the best shot they had at making the Vex feel more than just being robots... and they decided to use her for a seasonal questline story mission ending. Knowing she was written back in TTK, we won't get anything this close anytime soon.

While I think there is room for the Vex to develop 'characters/villains', I think their strong suit is being completely alien to us, or if not strong suit simply what makes them stand-out from the other races in a way that's needed. Character-based ideas: A. The converted: Stories focused on or lead by former allies/humans that have become Vex. As Byf mentioned there has been lots of setup for this and definitely should be explored. B. The isolated/expunged: The Vex in many ways are basically just the Geth from Mass-Effect, so it stands to reason the best or only logical way to create a Vex character is to have a Vex Mind that is disconnected or isolated from the larger network (like Legion from ME2). I think a Taken Vex would work best for this, but I could see any number of reasons/ways a Vex could be isolated from the rest. My ideas/hopes/suggestions for the Vex. 1. Time travel device: TLDR, think season of the Dawn, we went back and saw Saint in thr past and inspired him to become the Legendary warrior we know today. I think rather than focusing on characters/villains, the Vex could be the catalyst for stories about the past. Aka we learn they try to change the events we only know about in-lore, go back in time and stop em whole witnissing said events from the distance/shadows. 2. Post Light/Dark: Vanilla D1 really built the Vex up as the 'real' threat. I think a great pay-off to that story would be the idea that the Vex have been either biding their time, or working behind the scenes to ensure the course of events in the story up until this point. To basically say this entire cosmic war of good vs evil was secretly orchestrated by another force to their own benefit is the best way to make said enemy seem even more threatening without relying on them being physically/magically 'more powerful'. Once the Witness is gone we finally see the first signs of a true Vex armada, and learn that they truly were an evil so great they orchestrated the demise of all other evil in the universe.

I've been theorizing that there's a civil war going on in the Black Garden, with Asher Mir at the center of it. Asher becomes The Light Mind or something, and his Vex forces are currently waging war in the Black Garden against any that would align with the Darkness

I think a some ways to make the Vex more horrifying would be: Introducing new Vex enemies that aren’t to different from what we have, maybe even just reskins, *but they are of visibly different species.* Have some actual conversations with Vex and give them an overarching personality that none of the lesser Vex are allowed to deviate from, have them question why other species desire free will, or better yet have them manipulate the characters into questioning themselves, sorta like Johan Liebert from Monster. Show their methods in full scale, system-sized ships eating planets with people on them just to turn them into resources and other Vex even though they have more than enough. Show a Vex mind and how it thinks, a personality, but it isn’t allowed to be too different, and the only important goal can only ever be the advancement of its race, no matter how advanced it already is or how much it already has.

Remember when Cabal were the "forgotten race" in D1?

The Vex have a unique relation to the Darkness/Witness. I read somewhere the Vex only worshipped the Black Heart after learning the new rules for gaining power when they attempted to invade Oryx's Throneworld, and tried to exploit that. And that the Vex strive for a world that has no Light or Darkness from the simulations with Penoptes, which I imagine implies they are striving to become like a third force, stronger than the Gardener and the Winnower in attempts to ensure its own existence? The Witness seems to acknowledge the Vex's goals, or at least their lack of sentience, if you look back to Season of Arrivals. It shows statues of humans, Hive, Cabal, and Fallen looking up to a pyramid ship, but no statues of Vex. I'm not sure if the Witness is disbarring the Vex from the alliance it's forming with the Scorn and the Hive, or it simply can't reach out to the Vex because it's run by algorithms.

Personally, i think that it'd be cool if some of the vex change to the descendant vex after lightfall. Not only would it bring something different to the vex, it would also serve as a warning sign, showing that the end is near.

I like their unknowableness, the Vex are true wildcards and could ultimately end up on either side of the war or neither. The fact that they don't or can't produce personalities is what makes them so unsettling.

I just want more vex in the story. They're the most interesting imo and I don't like that they've been sidelined for quite some time now. Yeah, it makes more sense that the story would lean toward the factions we can actually communicate with, but it's almost like they're a non-issue, despite being one of the most incomprehensibly advanced, and powerful, species.

It just occurred to me that the "vex milk" and "egregore" are very similar in function... coincidence?

I for one hope we see something like En-Voy, the Diplomatic Mind. Clearly that’s a concept the Vex could in some way understand. Diplomacy might not always be purely logical but it IS causal. Even if an alliance is out of the question, a non-aggression pact would reduce the number of variables the Vex would have to consider, at least in the short term.

This wasn't a problem in the early days of Destiny when all of the enemy races were just 'lol aliens, big ones, 4-armed ones, robots, and zombies!!!!' But as the franchise has gone on and the storytelling has improved, the other races have all gotten a lot more personality, history, and interesting characters, and the Vex have just been left behind in this regard. Really, they are more like a plot device than anything else. They exist as a sort of 'force of nature' which prompts other things to happen (see a lot of the Clovis Bray stuff in Beyond Light). I actually think this is fine for the most part- if they can drive other stories by being a sort of elemental force, even if there's no personality behind it, that serves a purpose in the story and can help flesh out other characters. That's not to say I wouldn't like to see them get some cool named characters as well. I mean, we had Quria, but that was about it..

They kinda have solved this problem in lore at least. Simulations of characters like Maya Sunderesh in Clovis journals would make great villains. She was genuinely unsettling in that story, and was the product of a vex information virus. If they deploy that against current humanity, you have a tonne you can draw on. The Ishtar researches like Maya, but also Praydeth. These simulations aren't anything we can directly fight, similar to a villain like uldren, or in particular, the nightmares from this season.

Personally when it comes to vex ive always hoped for the small chance that a minor submind makes the calculation that humanity and the light are the best chance for them, since they continue to prevail against the darkness over and over, something akin to the opposite of the divisive that chose to worship the darkness. I know its very unlikely and would run into the same personality issues that the vex have always had, but ive always daydreamed that years and years and years down the road, when or if we get a destiny 3, we could choose not only between awoken, exo, and human, but also between a vandal/captain for the house of light, or a centurion of Caiatl’s cabal, maybe a knight or acolyte of a reformed and adjusted lucent brood, and maybe even a goblin of a submind of vex who made the calculated choice to ally with the alliance of light. I have no clue if its possible or if it could even work, but its one of my absolute favorite things to daydream about how it could come to be or what it would look like when it comes to destiny lore.

so a few thoughts on the vex, i remember a mission where they release communication from Praedyth because they needed help in the future because of the Taken overwhelming them and they used him to send us there. so maybe we will have a submind ask for our aid as a unified mind is taking over the vex network for the witness. I think that would be a cool way for their story to go. Especially if in like lightfall the submind found out a secret of the witness that doesn't aligned with them or ensures their destruction.

The idea of the Vex assimilating together is plausible since keep in mind places like Nessus and Europa (via Glassway) are still giant mystery boxes worth of potential.

Hey Byf, first just wanna say thank you so very much for your content, I thoroughly enjoy it! After hearing you compare the vex to the reapers from Mass Effect, I thought of again what I have before which is the comparison between the Vex and the Geth. So I typed “vex vs. geth” into the search bar here but after scrolling for a little I didn’t find anything. While we’re in a bit of an off time with Destiny and you said you’re trying to put out some content while working on the Zavala video, I wonder if this concept is of any interest to you. I for one would love it! Thank you for your consideration!

the Vex genuinely terrify me. I've said it many times, and probably in the comments of other videos of yours. I am scared of what a full on Vex invasion would look like. If the Sol Directive convince the other factions that guardians, and humanity needs to die, we would be screwed paracausal abilities or not. The Witness so far hasn't held a candle to how scary the Vex are. I'm not scared of the Witness, we've killed Rhulk, we've killed wish dragons. We cannot kill something that completely controls time. The only reason we were able to do anything within the Vault of Glass is because one of the original fireteam members sacrificed themself to become the relic we use in many of the encounters to help get light into the vault. If the vex actually come after us, or if we decide to fight the Vex head on in their turf, we stand no chance.

The Vex might be the main villains of the next story arc after final shape, since the Wyverns are the only combat vex frames we've seen, every other vex we've encountered is either a mind or a worker frame.

I’m glad your finally talking about this, can’t believe how minor the vex have become since the beginning of Destiny :/ My hope is the Witness scoops them back up and puts them too work against us, most likely in a season where we along with Ana, Elsie, Mithrax, and a reluctant Clovis help us get Rasputin into his Exo body and up and running, while also maybe Eramis coming back as a new disciple of the Witness maybe even leading the vex forces on Europa! And yes if you can’t tell from the mass of text above I’ve put a lot of thought and time into this ideal season

From what i've heard, we've only fought the vex equivalent of average construction workers, miners with guns. I'm both looking forward to and dreading to see them sending out their dedicated warriors, elite forces, generals, and highest ranked leader units...

Would love to see a Vex Ultron type character we interact with down the line. Maybe the Vex pull a Caiatl and calculate that the best option for survival is to cooperate with us to defeat the Witness

I hope after the Final shape, we get an expansion focused on the Vex. We’ve only had one expansion that put the Vex in the spotlight, and that was Curse of Osiris. All the other times that the Vex were the main antagonists were season(Undying and Splicer). I also hope we get more Vex themed armor, weapons, exotics, and cosmetics. Imagine if we had armor that looked like a Vex precursor

Really hope they do something with the Ishtar team, possibly one of my favorite stories in the lore

"We are Vex, I am Vex" Is a line that I've wanted since I understood the submind structure

My newborn child's first words Greetings Guardians My name is Byf

After playing lightfall this sadly feels same. I don't want to wait till final shape for vex to MAYBE do something. They do nothing

Holy crap, am I really watching this immediately after its posted?! Cool!

Guess before watching: The vex have no notable characters/leaders with actual personality. They have no Savathun, or Eramis, or Fikrul, or Calus. A antagonist that actually spits at us and has something to say. Honestly the closest thing we got to that was Panoptes back in CoO and he wasn’t much.

The vex are my favorite race in Destiny I'd love to see some of their higher level entities (with a well developed society) imagine if the inside of the Traveler is filled with 'Lightblessed' vex, with a well developed society or maybe in the vex network (in order to simulate better) the higher level vex have well developed minds (each with distinct focuses), like a deliberating vex subtype (one with the sole purpose of arguing with other members of the subtype, and that leads them to become divisive individually, like the Sol Divisive was collectively) some, like the Nine did/do, could ally with us other thoughts: well, vex are somewhat mythological (names like minotaur or harpy, and goblin or wyvern, and even Panoptes (Argus)), and they respect beings like Saint for their combat prowess. What if there were vex that had risen beyond just simple minds (free vex) that act on their own, and have become mythological figures to the Vex themselves. This could allow villains and heros if these superminds take control of other, weaker vex (the black heart could have been one that was taken) just spitballing

all things considered I wonder if we will ever have a faction of vex choose to align with us. We (the player) keep besting everything, we are something that defies even the vex's ability to understand, much like how the sol devisive saw the witness and decided that it was the thing that would insure their survival, perhaps the immortal godslayer will gain a following of vex wanting to ride on our coattails

An interesting route I think Bungie could take is having a Vex submind go rogue from the rest of the network, sort of like what's going on with Bel'Veth in League of Legends. Bel'Veth's story is that she is a void monster who like all void monsters, wants to destroy the world, but she sees an interesting vision for what the world could become afterwards, unlike the other Void characters, who just want to destroy the world because it is to them what loud heavy metal music is to a sleeping person. Maybe this theoretical submind has a similar goal in mind: they also want to survive to the end of the universe, but they have this unique vision for what it could become that puts them at conflict with the rest of the Vex, a conflict that we as guardians inevitably get caught up in.

since we know that Exo are sort of vex hybrid, I think the best way to make a next story for the Vex would be for them to in some way try to reclaim the exo? We would even have some exo get corrupted which could give us a bad guy with a more human personality. Maybe the stranger, Ada, or Banshee, but probably not Clovis even though he is an asshole. It would give us that emotional response having to fight them as well ( or try to save them)

The problem I've always seen relates to what they are. They're a quantum computer of unimaginable size. The amount of energy it would take to make just a simulated snapshot of the universe is currently incalculable. I don't see any possible way that the Vex could lose or even come remotely close to losing. When you can simulate quantum states on an absolute level, you can predict them as well. The Vex should not only be able to chart the course of every celestial object ranging from super giant stars to individual antiquarks but should be able to predict with 100% certainty, the world lines of every lifeform as well. With that knowledge, they wouldn't even need different calculations. All it would take is one to encapsulate every possible divergence. Every move we make would have been predicted with countermeasures planned for each. When you assume that a species can accurately simulate the universe, you might as well be declaring them the winner right there. Anything less would be plot contrivance. And if the Vex aren't 100% accurate in their predictions, why? If they can identify and correct aberrant behavior in their network, which they can, then what kind of flaw could overcome their defenses? It would have to be some kind of auto-immune virus of such a magnitude that the Vex would have no way of missing it. That's the paradox of it all. There can't be a medium threat Vex. If they're working as intended, then they will win every time. If they're compromised, then their ability to fulfil their core mandate would be in tatters, and they'd have no way of achieving their goal.

Dang I'm early

Calus did say that we haven't actually seen the "true" Vex yet. We've been fighting farmers according to him. Maybe their actual warrior frames are going to arrive and we'll see actual characters, Vex heroes and champions. Also aren't the Vex Extra-dimensional? At least I thought they were, because Crota tore a hole in time and space and let them into his father's throneworld. I could be misremembering that bit though.

Ever since destiny one and the sol.progeny in the Blac garden I've always thought that the vex themselves were not of our universe. I'm starting to wonder if the witness brought them to our system with intent to try and stop our systems champion.....the gaurdian......and the vex being the winners of the game or champions of another universe the game was played in previously

Oh god, I just had a terrifying thought that I'm glad can never happen. A Vex assimilated Reaper. Or a Reaper assimilated Vex? Who overrides who there? Now I actually want to see that tested even though I don't want that to happen. It probably comes down to the number of Vex vs the number of Reapers and how they'd interact. Would a Reaper agree with the Vex and join with them? or would the Reapers try to destroy them? I think the Reapers could see the utility of Vex technology being able to manipulate time, but are the Reapers sophisticated and powerful enough AI to override the Vex minds? Do the Vex see the Reapers as a useful tool or a hindrance? Is mass effect technology a unique enough advantage for the Vex to consider using it? How does the Vex handle the indoctrination technology? Would they just ignore that or use it to get more drones? What about Dragons Teeth? How would Husks be used? I need this in my life now, even if it's just for the sheer horror aspect of it.

I'd be intrigued to see if in the end the Vex help us stop the witness, probably just before we take on the witness in a final confrontation. If in their calculations we can show them that there's at least a chance we can defeat the witness and they decide to hedge their bets.

When Byf mentioned about a united Vex overmind it made me think about the character Bel'Veth from League of Legends; a being comprised of an unfathomble amount of other minds that can use all that processing power for their own ends. If we ever got a Vex overmind it'd be pretty cool if they leaned on said overmind being a, well, being of pure logic in terms of personality. Speaking without lies or misdirection since it doesn't need to. Of course that goes out the window since Vex can't simulate paracausal beings, which of course includes us guardians, but maybe under a united front the Vex could at the very least begin to understand paracausality and thus could pose as a new threat after the Witness. I'm probably just spewing stupidity though.

"...Asher didn't bother to learn our name..." Do we even have a name? I thought our Guardian was just called "Guardian" and some assortment of titles, like "Young Wolf"

As long as they don't do the "one unified mind"/the grand leader path I'm fine. Maybe a collective mind from all the vex within the system, I just don't want a singular villain because then it'll just be like every other faction, then it just won't be the vex at that point. They're scary and interesting because we never know what they're going to do. By making them predictable it'll just ruin the vibe. A good villain needs build up, they can't be rushed or we'll just get another beyond light situation. I'm excited to see how the vex will be shown after final shape, because that's where they'll shine I feel

Wouldn’t it be the perfect thing for survival? Play both sides of the huge fight to ensure you’re around to some capacity once the dust settles. It’d be cool if some of the vex could fight for the traveler.

I’ve always had and idea of a faction of the Vex allying themselves with us. Maybe even evolving into something more similar to ourselves. Having an army of hyper intelligent beings backing us would definitely be helpful

Gotta admit, one of my most favourite and fond memories from the Vex, is in thw house of wolves DLC when they salute you before you enter the VOG.

I do hope we learn more about the Vex. The first episode after Final Shape: Echos, seems like at may involve the Vex. I can easily see us exploring the Forge Star, with the aid of Vex experts like, Osiris, Elizabeth Bray, Nmubis or Quinn, and Mithraks. Elizabeth said the portal on Eroupa provides a necessary link to the Vex. The Vex seem to have been waiting to make a real move, after the Final Shape, when odds have shifted in their favor. We may see their greater aspirations in the episode: Echos. Other enemy factions have some type of main villain to oppose us, and add more personality and motivation to a specific enemy faction. Of the Witness’ forces, the Shadow Legion has/had Calus. The Hive under the Witness have Xivu Arath and the Worm Gods. The Fallen of House Salvation have Eramis. The Taken can be wild and barbaric, but have the Witness. The Vex, have no main antagonist/villain to humanize them, or add relatable motivation to flesh them out as an enemy faction. But, I could see several characters to play the role of a mind/will strong enough to control the Vex, and act as a villain to deepen their motivations and identity: (the AI of) Clovis Bray, or Maya Sundaresh. The lore has long hinted at her, and after Lightfall we’d learned of how the Witness may have subtly corrupted and manipulated her as a pawn. Feeding her ego and ambition, feeding her obsession. Much like it did to Clovis. Though Maya could still be alive within the Vex network, as a Vex AI, both her and Clovis did gain some form of immortality. Rather than casting its pawns off the board, it seems the Witness just had both of these Golden Age scientists do its dirty work. Now, both Clovis and Maya seem to sit, isolated and locked up, collecting dust. Weather Maya or Clovis comes back into play to try and command the Vex, time will tell. But, if either of them can yak control of the Vex network, using the Veil, there’s a chance we could see a dangerous, and cunning Vex AI, leading an army of Darkness empowered Vex. One that works to assimilate all Vex to its cause, whatever it may be. Maya seems the most likely candidate than Clovis to narratively fill this role.

something i've been thinking about with the vex is that the ones we've faced so far are like the engineers, builders and colonizers dedicated mostly to construction or manipulation, not necessarily real warriors dedicated to complete destruction/extermination of an opposing force despite how strong those units still are. So when we do eventually meet them or step foot on their home world or territory just how out of our depth would we as para-causal beings really be? On top of that im wondering if a vex or somebody that was turned into a vex could ever be chosen by a ghost or even regain their lost light and become an independent entity again. Even more interesting to think about the possibility that a vex subdivision could see the light as a vastly superior force and decide to worship us instead? I remember a video from ages ago talking about a bunch of solar titans that supposedly surpassed the traveler and went off world never to be heard of again or some ridiculous thing like that it would be interesting to see if a guardian or light wielder from centuries/millenia? ago could have become as powerful and wield the light on the same or greater level than the witness supposedly does.

a fascination with the unknowable, in relation to the Vex, is why in my Destiny TTRPG campaign, i opted for the main antagonistic force to be hive that were "vexed" by contact with radiolaria, but in a controlled manner through hive magicks as a means to keep their individuality, or at the very least, the individuality of the High Techpriest, which is what i called the biggest baddest post-mortem ascendant hive-vex once in the rough outlines for planning ahead and never bothered finding a better name. i love the concept of a force so intrinsically... well, *vexing*, and one that so fervently follows it's own collective goal (or obligation, if you will) that's entirely distinct from the forces of Light and Dark that we've come to concern ourselves with over our journeys as Guardians. the Vex aren't inherently bad, nor are they overtly good- they just do what they can to protect and further their own goals, and they'll sidle up to anyone or anything they need in order to reach that goal. it's also likely i'm missing out on key lore i haven't considered, so if i am, whoever's reading this, feel free to tell me what's more lore-accurate so i can try to be true to the source material. anyway, i think it'd be an interesting plot point to see the Vex consolidate into a single mind, but inevitably fracture as some see the Light and siding with the guardians that have bested them time and time again to be preferable over siding with a force that the weirdos in the Black Garden have spent their eons worshipping, just to be curbstomped anyway. wheras the Black heart was one of supplication and sacrifice, i imagine a mind devoted to the Light- or at least positively-leaning neutral to it- would see fit to instill in it's form ways to mimic that of the Light's chosen- emotiveness chiefly among them, providing a reason (though you may need to suspend your disbelief) for a Vex Mind to communicate with guardians in any context other than that weird Quria bit from Truth to Power.

I dunno if they need a character to be their voice, but I'd really love to see them tied into things a little more. Maybe they can keep them on the brain for whatever comes after the Saga of Light and Dark?

I'm imagining the Vex try to replicate a throneworld, but as an idea that it is embedded in a bunch of subminds, like a backup

I love the idea of the vex siding with humanity, i mean when you look at the whole picture who is more likely to win in the end, the entity with millions of paracausal beings, or the one who charges in with, way more warships, but (as far as we know) only with one main paracausal being, and possibly hundreds of billions of causal beings, the vex can calculate the moves of all the causal beings but not the paracausal beings. Meaning that they know we are super strong because all their attempts to kill us have failed and cannot calculate our next move, i feel it would be best to side with the light, learn to speak human languages, learn what emotions are and how to read them, requesst an alliance and meeting, build trust, and join the light. Simple enough to me.

Imo the vex are super smart so simply following some entity isn't something I imagine But they might dig inside both (witness and traveer) to try breaking them apart so no one survives expect for them Another idea that has been floating in my mind about D3 is that it might be all vex related. Why you might ask Simply because they do not look like a main villain in the near future The guardians are super tunnel visioned into the witness and what he will. That's why I think the vex should just be a behind the scene actor that tries to develop and improve while everyone eyes are far from them Idk if that's practical but its what comes to my mind every time the vex conversation pops up

A cool idea I had at one point for a memorable vex would be something like the how the Harbinger from ME2 operates. It doesn't directly fight us, but possesses vex as were fighting them and makes them far deadlier. Give it actual dialog, and maybe a special interest in our Guardian

The new audio sounds like he's talking to us from a radio or like a podcast. It sounds good don't get me wrong, but it's too clean, too smooth. It doesn't sound like we're sitting around a campfire or a library listening to him tell us a story before we go and shoot up Savathun.

I feel like they could go down the geth route that mass effect did where the vex gained more sentence to develop personalities, which i would love to see, could add vex allies to the mix, and more vex might also side with the witness

A unifying mind could be a cool seasonal story. The "allied" vex like Asher and the exodus captain could come to us to get help battling the new unifying mind and trying to take control themselves. Asher in charge of all the vex could make them allies or take them out of the way of the wider conflict

I’ve been thinking about this since me and friend were talking about the lack of Vex armor in the game. Maybe I’m biased since the vex is my favorite but they’re kinda like a mechanical/alien lovecraftian entity and I feel that the Vex not having a villain who can talk to us the player, really wounds them. Remember before The Taken King how kinda meh the hive felt? Omnigaul just screamed at us and Crota made noise(???). Once Big Daddy Oryx showed up, it gave the hive a presence it still has today.

I’ve found the Vex’s greatest strength to be the unknown. Cosmic horror’s strength comes from that, and we see that especially in H.R. Geiger’s work, which the Vex may not be inspired by yet they definitely give off that same “do I even wanna know what this machine does?”-vibe to them. Now, bear in mind, I stepped outta the lore scene a while back and updates have happened in my absense, so what I’m gonna say is more than likely disproven by months/years, or is completely in crack theory territory…..BUT, from where I’m standing, the Vex don’t need named characters so much as to be treated like an environmental hazard. Much like the Darkness is THE enemy, the Vex should be THE problem. I’ve seen the Vex as a massive mind that split itself into smaller pieces, similar to cloning of a singular mind, and allowing those instances to interact with various elements outside of itself. This is why the instances communicate with each other, as I see it. Basically, a massive, self-talking consciousness that is experimenting. Rather than a hive mind, it’s a bunch of the same guy coming to incredible conclusions after billions of simulations and attempts. With that mentality, rather than the hive mind or cooperative minds approach, I think the answer is to moreso focus on the tactics of the Vex as a whole. Factions are defeated in certain quest lines, have them suddenly appear in totally different places, showing that they were never lost but learned from. The Vex changed its strategy and has decided to play dirty. It set us up with a sense of artificial security, and pulls the rug out from under us. Rapid expansion, sudden change to behaviors. The Vex hasn’t been that aggressive in comparison to the Eliksni, Cabal, Hive or Guardians. It knows its enemies and it’s waited for them to get chummy enough to not shoot each other as much, now comes the flood. A geologic time table is where the Vex stand, and if we have that mentality applied, we literally look at everything that we-the Guardians-have done…and we feel manipulated. We feel used. Despair sinks in, because the Vex has decided not to fight paracausal beings with firepower, but with individual strength being used against itself. The Guardians have achieved incredible things. Killing gods, forming allies, surviving Armageddon several times over…and the Vex suddenly destroys all of that progress, by sweeping the godless Hive, destroying Guardian allies to the point where there’s barely any Eliksni or Cabal left, and all that’s left is the Darkness and the Vex. These two forces aren’t allies, but the Vex is going to create false leads through which the Guardians will chase and attack the Darkness on its behalf, in their rage and despair. This is, again, very likely just an idgit idea created in crack theory territory, or it might not even be doable in the first place due to [insert technical stuff here]. Nonetheless, the idea of the Vex suddenly becoming a massive threat and bulldozing the solar system’s occupants until nearly every location is sporting Vex tech growing out of it, is an idea I find super fascinating. It makes the Vex seem genuinely interesting as a mechanical and alien entity. An AI wouldn’t need to kill a dying Guardian population when there are Hive, Fallen, Cabal and other humans that will do the job for it. But the Vex isn’t AI, it’s a consciousness that’s spread itself into thousands of instances that all share a singular goal with thousands of ways to achieve it. Manipulation of these little upstarts, seems rather trivial when you think about all of the trouble the Vex have faced with the other factions. The Hive gods were a problem for the Vex, Guardians solved that. Fallen were a nuisance, now they’re working with Guardians. Cabal were a thorn in the Vex’s side, now they’re helping Guardians or they’re keeping the Guardians occupied. Having an “all according to Keikaku”-moment for the Vex, to me, sounds really cool. If y’all disagree, that makes total sense since I’m just now getting back into the lore and I’m missing gods know how much information I need….yet the idea’s no less entertaining and interesting.

I would like to see vex start to calculate the possibility that in this current timeline they start to see the light as the possible end game for them. If you think of the stranger she mentioned different timeline versions where stasis has corrupted a lot of guardians including “us” if I’m not mistaken. It would be cool to see that her simply helping “the guardian” control this power, changes the way we will end by giving us a chance and the vex start to recognize that and pile on, even if not most, some vex on our side would certainly be very helpful.

I miss Asher, many a nights I patrolled Io, public eventing alone 😔

Rasputin/Vex theory: Rasputin is more of a hive mind than a singular being, that could definitely be part of the reason why it's so hard to get him into an Exo. He'd be much more comfortable working in a complex much like the Vex... also the newest seasonal patrol challenge, which has previously been linked to current story locations, is stationed on Europa, but why is that? It's a world untouched for more than a year by the story. This got me wondering about the Glassway which is the portal to the Forgestar. Clovis in Entry 7 states that this "Forgestar" is capable of sustaining life as he and his companions were able to survive the journey through to and at the Forgestar with no ill effects. Ana Bray, finding out what the Forgestar is, could hop through the Glassway and construct for Rasputin a new body, or possibly integrate him into a Vex Mind that already has a legion under it. No matter what, I believe the marriage of the Rasputin and Vex storylines to intertwine in this way, and I see no alternative that could be feasible. In connection to the lore, could the Nefele Stronghold be on Europa itself, as Clovis would most likely hide the most pungent secrets of his little Warmind on the world closest to him and far, far away from others' grasps? Maybe this could happen soon, but this could also be a remedy during Lightfall of gathering allies not tied to the war of Dark and Light; both Rasputin and the Vex look out for their own survival first.