"Crota's End" had the BEST beginning to a Raid 💀. The jumping down into the depths of a hollowed out moon, trying to survive the darkness one lantern at a time always got my heart pumping!!!
HOT TAKE: Raid bosses should never be a bigger version of a regular enemy. No big minotaur, harpy, hydra, oger, captain. They should all have their unique design and i know bungie have the creative talent to do so!
What if they were both? Like the Crown of Sorrows boss. Just another big cabal. But he had cool Hive stuff to go with it. Or Atheon, technically, he is a huge minotaur, but his design is still unique too
I kind of agree I guess, but not completely. Like golgoroth was just a big modified ogre, sanctified mind was just a big modified Minotaur, and crota was just a big modified knight, but I think they all worked fine. On the other hand, consecrated mind or argos weren’t unique looking enough imo to be raid bosses. But yeh, obviously stuff like a robot spider captain, Shaniks, riven, etc are preferable (imo panoptes has the ideal design for a raid boss).
Genuinely like seeing this kind of content in the dry periods of Destiny. I remember once you went back and looked at your 5 top things you hoped for in the game from pre-launch, think it would be cool to see you take a look at some of your other old videos and do the same.
Dry periods eh? The whole game is basically a dry period. Barely any multiplayer maps and none new seem to ever be released. Running the same campaign missions over and over and over and over and over and killing the same NPCS. I can't take much more than a month of this game before it's installed for a while
@@headglitch7003 it's good until the final boss- then it's just a shitshow. Also the drops are absolutely terrible from it- for pve and pvp (especially compared to DSC or Vault)
@Avaint TF yeah they are fine but can get same quality from anywhere really- Crypt you've got the reconstruction/recombination weps which are just nuts for pve and heritage is fantastic for pvp. Vault you have the timelost weapons but even still fatebringer is top tier for pve and pvp, vision is great, shotgun is great etc etc. Garden has no meta defining weapons, just a few average ones that are honestly outclassed by pretty much anything else. Why use reckless Oracle when chroma rush is just better, why use ancient gospel when eyasluna/palindrome/fatebringer are so so much better. Same thing with Last Wish unfortunately- amazing raid but the weapons have just been power crept basically.
'if youre going to raid you should clear time in your schedule for it with no bathroom breaks or meals to be taken during it' breaking this in year 1 of d1 created one of my funniest destiny memories where a friend said he was going to shower on Atheon - we continued doing 5 man attempts and he returned as we cleared it, and the game gave him Gjallarhorn for being AFK and he told us all about how he walked into the room with a towel and immediately saw ghorn drop
I used to not mind people doing this. And I still don't.. As long as that person is clearly 21+ Anyone else takes extra time, then come back saying they have chores. That pisses me off.
Not even kidding bro, but that is how I got my ghorn to drop from Crota’s End. It was everybody’s first clear pretty much so we were taking a long time to do everything, and I had to help my grandma with something that took about 20 minutes after a failed crota attempt. I run back into the room to see them killing Crota through the windows and I get ghorn to drop. I was so happy but felt so guilty lol
As someone who did 83 runs of DSC before getting eyes, opened almost 120 chests on riven, and 50 runs of scourge for anarchy there has to be a pity counter for raid exotics…
I’m like 4 days late but here’s my “hot” take: Raid matchmaking is still a terrible idea, but dungeon matchmaking should be a thing 1-2 months after they launch. LFGs run the dungeons micless 90% of the time anyway.
I think 72 hour contest mode would be perfectly balanced keep the 24 hour day 1 rewards a thing but let contest mode last the entire weekend of release for a raid so more people can experience the day 1 raid
@@EwwwApex The emblem isnt what matters. I know hundreds of people who play purely for the contest experience. A lot of times my fireteam couldnt complete day 1 raids but that didnt matter we did it for fun.
Crown of Sorrow wasn't the best raid (especially the first encounter, it was too long with the same mechanic cycled 4 times), BUT the boss encounter was one of the best boss fights where mechanics and dps were equally important and satisfying to do. Same goes for SoS, the final encounter was buggy af but the balance between mechanics and dps was really fun and satisfying.
i really liked crown, the final fight was fun. Didnt like Spire, only did it once and hated it. that could have been because i had a crap raid team that day though
Yeah, I think Ghalran is probably the best raid boss fight in all of destiny's history. It's SO well designed. BUT, CoS suffers from a few issues that doesn't make it onto the "best raids" list. Namely, encounter 1 plus the raid loot in the dungeon. Oddly enough, CoS is like an inverse GoS. Garden has pretty solid loot and most of the raid is pretty good, but the boss SUCKS. While, conversely, the encounters prior to the final boss aren't great and the loot blows. BUT, the final boss is so much fun that it carries the rest of the raid. If I could replay CoS even while getting sunset loot, I would just to fight that boss again.
Crown of Sorrow's later encounters are either wonderful, or just the worst, no in between. They are so mechanic-heavy that a team who doesn't have great synergy will suffer through a miserable slog, while well-synced players and players experienced in the raid will have a lot of fun juggling the combat and encounter mechanics. Extremely fun, but everyone has to know what they are doing pretty well for it to be fun.
@@colepowers8345 Yup, you either finish the encounter in 10 minutes or 2 hours, that's why it's satisfying with a good team and horrible with 5 good players 1 bad player, most encounters nowaday can be carried with 1 bad player BUT Val Ca’our and Gahlran... They are nearly impossible, especially Val Ca’our, Having Superior Retainer on the wrong player was a immediate wipe.
Running a raid on all 3 characters with the same gang each week for pinnacles makes for some really fun callouts that develop. Personal fave has been Atheon Oracles becoming Ass n Tiddies, where the oracles behind Atheon are Left Cheek, Crack, Right Cheek, and the oracles in front being Left Tiddy, Cleavage, Right Tiddy. It made for some major confusion whenever we had like 1 person of the regular group drop out and some rando would join but we refused to do other callouts.
In vault (LW) we would make the callouts as random as possible but still try to figure out the symbols. 69 fish, triple boob snake, fish high af (swimming through seaweed), *screeching eagle sounds*, n fish, sleepy 8 snake to name a few. For the third encounter on DSC we would use states in the US as callouts for scanner.
@@Treble_V2 I've never understood "n fish". "Circle fish" makes a lot more sense, especially since nearly everyone already knows two fish in a circle is the 69 fish. Legitimately, I've heard someone call circle fish "upside down u fish".
The reason that I disliked Spire of Stars until the end was the bugs and issues with hitboxes there were, like the ship ball throwing was really tough to hit viably
That was not an issue, the balls had so much aim assist on them. It's the same with people getting "glitched" over the barrier at calus, sure it happens rarely, but nowhere near as much as people say it did. I can't say I ever missed a ship that I didn't deserve to miss.
only time i ever cried playing Destiny 2 Well, after my team managed to beat Taniks after a 16 hour play session, i cried a fair amount after that too but for different reasons because my team was at each other's throat at that point
I've both solo flawlessed dungeons, and done low man raids. Of the two I believe that doing dsc and last wish 3-man was infinitely more fun than losing my solo flawless to the sparrow race in grasp or the falling section after chamber of suffering.
Don't know how hot of a take this is, but I'm definitely growing increasingly sick of RNG for gear in video games just generally. Fully agree with Datto that with enough clears you should just get the raid exotic
I think what would be cool is if you could spend spoils at the chest to grab the exotic. Maybe half the required from the kiosk. So 120 spoils to buy the exotic outright
@@adambeck427 if that were the case, I think it'd make sense to have it just be an auto drop. Because otherwise you could just use spoils you already had from other raids to get it and I think that goes against the whole "mastery of the raid" feeling. I was about to suggest "raid specific spoils" to buy the exotic, but we have enough different currencies, so just making it a guaranteed drop after x amount of runs would make more sense.
THANK YOU for mentioning that with clock, the oracle tones ascend with the numbers. I feel like not many people realize that, and it’s genuinely helpful. If you miss a callout but know that it was a very low tone, you know to look towards 1 or 2 and so on.
Datto’s gotta be one of my favorite RU-vidrs just because he has these long ass videos and I love them. I still put on old D1 guides in the background because he’s genuinely fun to listen to
I think this is a hot take but I want to see more ad clear type encounters like shiro chi and queens walk. Some of the most intense games I’ve played in destiny has been those two encounters with everyone popping ad clear supers being forced to always be on their toes moving, it makes the anxiety high if there’s a timer I also just think it’s exciting to slay out.
I just want ad clear to be more of a thing in Destiny in general. Much of the content in the game has too few enemies given how powerful the players are. I'd love more raids encounters where ad clear was something you actually had to work at like Shuro Chi, Riven etc, instead of being a potato job you do when you don't know the raid mechanics.
Only problem is then people bitch about a slow fight so it's either a fight you can just dps quick with potential 1 phase or another way that will take longer.
Hot Take: The current boss encounter paradigm is boring and needs to go. Mechanics to break shield and then standing still DPS is so boring. Riven is one of my favorite bosses because of how she gives you the opportunity to do DPS whenever, but still, there is a large element of separation between mechanics and damage phases. I want a world without phases to our boss fights. Imagine a raid boss where 2 people get to do DPS as any given time, while the other 4 do mechanics to get themselves ready for DPS, and then they switch and 2 of those people have to go and do DPS, all the while the boss is very mobile.
Clock lets you get to damage phase faster instead of standing in the back. But if you don't know the clock method its better to just do it the easy way from the back of the room with left middle right. Its less optimal and more tedious. But requires less setup and explanation than clock method
I love DSC but I haven’t played anything before d1 so I’m probably missing out…but out of the ones I’ve played I love DSC and it will forever be my favorite raid
@@inventor4279 not even joking, the bar is literally just LW (which is pretty fucking good), GoS (which is pretty fucking bad), VoG (n o s t a l g i a), and DSC (which was actually really good). 3/4, it's bar is average
I totally agree last wish is one of the beest raids. It challenges your abilities to coordinate as a team, it has excellent lore to it, the overall design of the raid just surpasses all the others, and its one of the most challenging raids.
People say that Well of Radiance makes the raid too easy but god forbid if you want to switch to something else. Twitter is full of clowns as always. I bet they are the same people that say they never die and the WellLock behind them who is healing them on cooldown is akwardly smiling and agreeing to their 0Head takes while cursing them
Spire of Stars was probably my most hated raid simply because of how buggy it was on prestige mode. Could have been that our group was just unlucky but the majority of our resets were because the bomb didn't connect to the ship or it wouldn't arm at all. It was a cool encounter when it worked.
"Protective Light needs a huge nerf or removal otherwise day 1 numbers will never be even remotely close to garden or crown levels again." Other than most charged with light build being nerfed due to MW weapons no longer generating orbs, (IK stream was live before the latest Twab) meaning it is somewhat getting a nerf, you cannot delegate day one raid clears to a single mod.
I would love to see more excerpts from Twitch vods since I can’t usually catch the stream but rly enjoy Datto talking about Destiny. Ty for the content!
Vault in Last Wish has a similar issue that’s only gotten worse with time. When it first came out, the knights were an insane threat so people on add clear had a somewhat engaging job. Now it’s basically a 3 person encounter with the 3 other people just standing there. For what’s it worth I really enjoyed Dogs but that’s probably because I would lead the others.
Loved this video because 1) we get 40 minutes of Datto honestly speaking about what the community thinks about the game and 2) you also added chat on the side. I personally find it more stream videos more engaging like that.
Crown of Sorrow is one of my favorite Raid Lairs, IMO it would be best raid for me if it wasn't for the first encounter that needs to do way more than introduce you to the crystal / blessing mechanic
We should do some just general Destiny 2 hot takes. I’ll start: the game needs more open world exotic weapons per season and not have every new exotic tied to either a raid, dungeon, quest, or special mission and they shouldn’t be revealed in the roadmap so they remain secret until discovered.
Vault of Glass is the best "New Light's First Raid". Its shorter than most of the raids in the game, and mechanics that have a learning curve but are not impossible to learn. For example, the Oracle encounter, it will be a challenge starting out. But once you learn where each oracle spawns or you get a view to help keep track of multiple it makes the encounter easier.
11:10 I'd be ok with this if all the RNG raid exotics were also tied to triumphs. That way you get the excitement of a possible lucky drop as well as a sense of progress towards an inevevitable goal. maybe have a special shader for the gun on completion of the triumph too or something.
I love Crown. At least the last two encounters. Boss fight has a lot going on and no one can really sit back and do nothing. That said, I can recognize its short comings and know it is not the best raid.
How to make oryx fight better assuming it returns in D2: Make the corrupted lights stun him and then damage can be dealt. More lights = more time oryx is stunned.
My raid team does atheon oracles (front: left right middle) (back: left right middle) and we only call out the first 2 Oracles, so if its front right back right back left we'd call out right and back right
assuming you weren't over levelled for it, the ENTIRE leviathan raid required 'perfect execution' on every single fight otherwise you wiped, there was quite literally no wiggle room for mistakes to be made and still come away successful.
My hot take: Taniks ruins Deep Stone Crypt. He doesn't make any sense either as an ally of Eramis or just... as someone it'd be a priority to resurrect, he isn't even ACTUALLY turned into an Exo, it's literally just "He's alive again somehow." And the Shank-legs, while funny, is just kinda incomprehensible because large Shanks didn't feature anywhere else in the raid, so where the hell did it come from? If I could wave a magic wand and just... replace Taniks with more Atrax. For the initial reveal after security, just have Atrax helping another Atrax out of a pod, then both look at you and flee. For the nukes encounter, just have Atrax in the center of the room (and have some god damned heavy shanks instead of just piles of captains as your only majors), and then the final boss with be Atrax with a big shank booty. Have the raid literally just be chasing her up and down the length of the Crypt. I don't care if people say it's too samey, you know what's samey? KILLING TANIKS AGAIN.
I've always thought raid exotics should have a low drop rate, but every time you complete a raid, you get a, we'll call it a Raid Token. Each week you get up to 3 Tokens per account, and can spend those Raid Tokens on the raid exotic specific to those Tokens. If you get the exotic drop before you build up enough tokens, well, you got the exotic. If you dont, you buy it with the Tokens you've been building up
Had a clanmate that was 255 clears into Scourge Of The Past and still no Anarchy. And the Sparrow was only achieved 80-90 clears in. However I got the Anarchy in my 40th run and the Sparrow during my 42nd and felt pretty lucky about it considering how unfortunate others can be. lol
To add onto the raid exotic RNG argument I agree with you BUT if you want them to be purely RNG they need to be worth it. imagine doing 100 raids for terrabah only to find out it was a worse recluse.
I don’t know wtf kind of callouts other people use, but imo the best strat is to use close and far with either left, middle, or right, while only calling the first two
I am not really a speedrunner XD, I just started doing some of them ~3 months ago, so I am not considering that aspect at all. That said: obviously if we factor in the length of the raid, you would not be able to answer anything that’s not Last Wish, so I’m trying to see the bigger picture. If I have to speak from a “fun” perspective, Spire was by far the best raid to play 6 man, especially year 1. On the other hand, Crown had pacing issues on first encounter but 2-3 man Crown are some of the most enjoyable activities I’ve ever done in this game, since it was challenging enough and barely glitchy.
Crown was my favorite raid. I did it three times and each time I had a absolutely fantastic time. Getting tarrabah on the second completion felt so good
"Shadow" was the first raid title I went for. And it was the most fun, as the raid challenges were actually well constructed and required us to actually adapt our playstyle. Was also really fun to run Flawless as it contained very little uncontrollable bullshit, like certain other raids (Leviathan Psion grenades, Garden of Salvation Supplicants) Also did Rivensbane and Enlighted. Cannot say the same about all the challenges there. Especially having to not be hit by Shurochi in Last Wish, and having to kill a lot of Vex with The Sanctified mind platform destruction in Garden of Salvation.
As a PS4 player I used PAC. It helped with teaching people the encounter by using the square/triangle/circle button layout as a physical "map" for which rift/well/bubble to go with the corresponding buff.
Hot take: GOS is the best raid. It was difficult and punishing but not overwhelmingly so. The mechanics were great and the raid encouraged heavy communication. The motes mechanic were only frowned on because of gambit and the teather mechanic was only flawed when the fireteams set up incorrectly.
I do agree with this. If your team wasn't tone deaf and would place themselves where they were supposed to instead of getting in each other's way. It was very simple and can be a clean run with no issues
Crown of Sorrow genuinely is a top tier raid, but brought down by the first encounter being an absolute slog. If that had a faster pace or less phases, easily would be one of the best rivaling WotM/DSC/LW.
@@inventor4279 I mean it’s a shorter raid sure, but the last 2 encounters are some of the best in the game. The 2nd encounter is a perfect introduction to the mechanics in the final encounter, preparing you for the balancing act. It may not be as good as the last encounter, but the second encounter works great in the grand scheme of the raid itself.
My hottest take is that Shuro Chi is the best Raid encounter in Destiny history. Personally, movement (ie not standing still on plates) and callouts where everyone is involved and when things go wrong you have to improv, are my favorite two aspects in any Destiny raid encounter. It’s why the Death Zamboni, Aksis Phase 2, and Queenswalk are my other favorite encounters as well.
The fact that 90% of the community has never experienced Riven properly is a tragedy. The fact that they never patched it so you couldn’t just bake the boss is criminal. I can’t imagine being one of the members of the team who designed that amazing fight only to have almost no one experience it properly.
Here's a take: the mechanic in D2 where someone being dead for too long wipes everyone hurts the experience of clutching an encounter and generally discourages desperately trying to salvage an attempt gone bad. It's bad for making the kind of moments that people remember raiding for.
I get why dude said what he said with War Priest; not consistently two phasing and having to use left, and possibly also not knowing the cheese where you don't _have_ to jump all the way up.
the whole "what counts a as front of the room and back of the room" is such a continuous argument amongst raid groups because no one seems to agree, while when you think about it either works because, for example, when you enter a building the front is where you walk in whereas the front of a boat is the way you're facing, however i think that what makes the most sense is based on orientation and the way you're facing being front because of where your left and right would be
Commenting this a little after the vid came out, but when it comes to call outs for front or back I say that things further from the door are the front. Everyone tries to make the comparison that it is a room and it has a door, but in reality the door closes for most encounters and you are now in a closed space. I’d compare it to a stage where the boss is your audience before I compare it to a room with a door
Correct Atheon oracle callout = callout first 2 oracles. If there's 2 on the same side, specify front or back. i.e. if the 3 oracles are left, right, middle you callout left and right. If the oracles are front left, middle, back left, you callout front left and middle.
I really like quest exotics in raids. I think the div puzzle was fun, but i can see why it was frustrating for some. I think the way Vex was handled is perfect. It provides the best of both worlds, random drop with exotic, but quest for catalyst. It just adds another layer of depth to the raid. makes it stand out more, and becomes a lot more memorable
Honestly I would say a more reliable lfg system for Raids would be nice. I've been playing since D1 but was Disenchanted with the early D2 but haven't been able cross the end game door. No raid or dungeon runs so far :(
@@Palivox A lot of posts on said LFG sites are very demanding and (like your initial response) very demeaning. While assholes on the internet will always exist, people have the right to not tolerate or engage with them. People want to have fun with raids and dungeons, but all it takes is 1 impatient and or entitled asshole to just ruin the experience.
@@Palivox its exactly like Jmanli said, even if you meant your response to be satire or a joke, a lot of times when dealing with LFG post they are demanding, demeaning, and a lot of times unreliable. There are days that I'll scroll through many post, spending hrs casting a wide net just trying to get into some end game content. But either not enough ppl show up or the host gets annoyed and leaves. Hell finally being able to play Trials even though it can be annoying that teammates rage quit if someone dies prematurely, its just nice to access loot I couldn't farm elsewhere
While I do like complex raid bosses, I also think there is something to be said about how a boss doesn't need to be complex to be enjoyable. Warpriest in King's Fall is hardly a complex boss, but it's still one of the most enjoyable encounters in Destiny raiding imo.
I disagree and agree with patching the riven cheese yes the encounter is amazing and built beautifully but after your 50th time doing it the cheese is there to speed things up per say
I don't think Crown is the best raid, but the final fight is absolutely my favorite boss encounter in D2. There is just a flow or a rhythm you get into, where you are juggling multiple mechanics each on their own timers, and it all just lines up perfectly without even speaking. Such a great feeling when it happens, and so very frustrating when it doesn't lol
Hot take for the modern age: You should know how to do more than just riven/queenswalk in Last Wish because all you do is farm 1K this season. The entire raid is such a beauty, it deserves the loves, and it's not like those parts are tough. Shuro Chi is literally more technical than Vault if you have 1 good reader nowadays, so I'm blown away that people join my FRESH LFG's not knowing how to legit the other encounters. What a shame, what a waste of playtime, what a gorgeous raid.
How about they bring Aksis back, I never actually played the raid but I love everything about it lol. I love the look of Aksis and mechanics also Outbreak Prime was sick asl.
If they give the dude SOME lore, yeah. I was really disappointed that the final boss was a big nobody. They should have thrown Taniks in there! Taniks should be every raid boss
@@thefrostbite From the development standpoint, RoI was like a last minute filler content to give the team developing D2 vanilla more time. So sadly they didn't have all that much time to flesh Aksis out.
I think power level should be removed from the game: to me power is just a bad way of timegating players from difficult content. A simple difficulty scale would work better
Imagine a brought back crotas end revamped with the bridge encounter intact and champions? That would be chaos. Who remembers the last time an encounter didn't have mechanics besides survive the onslaught. I really hope they do it , or imagine the timed encounter but this time before corta and to make it harder to cheese and they throw unstoppable ogres at you in the rooms with the witches? That could be so fun
Or instead now when your building the bridge at the end of the first encounter you have to fight off barrier champs and unstoppables ogres while you are building
I only ever meal breaked during a raid once. we where 8 hours into kingsfall D2 (my first time in kingsfall) we were all stuck on golgy and just so frustrated, a guy left, it was a long night. we decided to take a break to cool off and get fuel in the tank before trying the 30th time. it was tough.
Thhey should do a bonus prob for raid exotics like on other rng games like genshin. The more you pull, the better the chance to get the raid exotic or a good roll
Oryx is in the back of the room because where he appears in the raid is akin to the place a throne would be, which is the back of the room. On top of that, the room where we fight him is closed off by space. Besides, his position would absolutely be based on our perspective, and given we entered from the opposite side of where he appears, he’d be in the back
I agree wholeheartedly that Last Wish is simply the best raid so far, with Wrath a close second. And leave it to D1 Alpha Vet to close out with another shit take.
I didn't play D1 so I can't compare those raids, but I don't understand the garden slander. Maybe because I've always had a good group, but it's really fun until you have to play fortnite. It's not my favorite raid, but it was my first, so take that as you will
I used to raid A LOT....then when Forsaken came out with arguably the greatest raid to date I wasn't able to do it because lfg was such a fucking nightmare for it. This actually killed my motivation so bad that I quit for 2 years. Obviously there were other reasons, but that one sticks out. Came back last spring, and once I knew I was hooked I immediately found a clan, and have since cleared all the available raids. Now that legacy rotations are coming I really need to practice them and get back to my old ways. Point being, screw lfg, find yourself a clan.
@@redohealer2 I will say Spire was a bit of a nightmare as well. Basically any raid with actual challenge made lfg so infuriating that I decided raids weren't worth my time if all my time was being devoted to failed attempts. Levi, and EoW were pretty easy to find groups for. Although, way less Challenging raids. If raiding is something you want to do it is 100% worth finding a decent clan for.
I remember to this day where I left in the middle of a VoG to go to burger King, and ended up getting McDonald's instead, and when the team asked what took so long and I explained all they had to say was "you left to get burger King.... And didn't even get burger King"
My team did clock out first clear and it's whats best for us. 11. 12. 1 7 6. 5 This would be the layout. Time themed raid time themed strat. We also were stupid and assumed master would add more oracles and figured that would adapt well
My hot take comes from personal experience and the enjoyment that I had. Crotas end was my favorite raid. I had a playgroup that I loved to play with. We would play every night for 5 or 6 hours. We lost our first member to college and not being able to play really at all anymore with taken king. The other one stuck around until around the time of curse of Osiris. We would run Crota and vault to help other people finish after we finished nightfalls and any other top level content for the week. I wish I could go back to those times. It was the most enjoyable for me
I’d say that initiating the dps phase on final boss DSC has a low margin for error for average to good raiders, but not so much for the best ones. My group usually does the four core run and any one of the runners getting detained even once usually means a wipe for us. After that hurdle we pretty much always one phase him to final stand, it’s just getting that dps phase initiated that trips us up.
Leviathan was my first raid I was able to actually participate in. Nostalgia deems it my favorite, but if I disregard that I can say that I thoroughly enjoyed Leviathan when I did it. It was fun the first time and a cool experience for me since it was new.
