They're talking about AIs outfitted to silica crystalline structures that shift and mold or "flux", just like the cephalon from Warframe. Literally they are talking about Cephalons, lol.
I love they got the lore masters the Collector's Edition early so they can give us Lore in this interim period before Final Shape! Thanks for the breakdown Evaze!
What if we have the Gardener and Winnower concepts backwards? In previous lore bits (correct me if i'm wrong I have my toes in a hundred different fandoms at once) It is implied that the Traveler is the gardener, planting seeds of life, with the Winnower being the one that destroys and culls. Think, a Gardener chooses what shape the garden will take, what plants will be allowed to live and die, pruning the branches and weeds. It is what this HN character has described. The bugs do not decide, the plants certainly not. Only the gardener gets to decide the shape of the garden. Now we think of the concept of Winnower [Winnow (1): to remove (something, such as chaff) by a current of air (2): to get rid of (something undesirable or unwanted) : remove -often used with 'out'] and put it in the lens of a passive entity, i.e the traveler that lets civilizations find out for themselves if they are worthy of a final shape. When they are not found worthy they are abandoned. Winnowed. It is searching not for a garden to tend, but for a species to tend themselves.
The conversations between RS and HNW remind me of what happened between JRR Tolkien and CS Lewis... Tolkien tried to bring Lewis back into faith, but then Lewis swung the pendulum much further than Tolkien intended and eventually became too overtly religious even for Tolkien's liking.
"I know what's best for you and nothing will stop me from doing that, including your objections or life." That's fascist thinking 101. Guess that cements the Witness as evil. These stories square Ahsa's comment about the Precursors being the first victim of the Witness, since those that formed the Witness murdered anyone that didn't agree with them.
Maybe RS is at the center of The Traveler? What the witness needs for it to attain that "final shape" as HN stated during the last message: "Lesser without you."?
Interesting that HN says they will "forget their pains" yet The Witness has said multiple times throughout the game "We know pain". Did something go wrong with the exuviation? Or maybe HN was lied to?
This lore should be some of the most interesting stuff in recent Destiny, yet it just feels like standard by the books bungie lore. Nothing of significance is revealed
Does anyone else get the feeling that HNW is the controlling mind of the Witness, and RN seems like it is the traveler? Will this end with these two friends reuniting, and is that what the witness has wanted all this time?
I really think that these two characters are in fact precursors, in fact I hope that's what it is, this dialogue alone has already said a lot about how their society worked and how the witness came to exist. And the witness so far is obviously not controlled by a single mind, due to the fact that they always refer to themselves as "us", but what this dialogue shows is that not everyone actually wanted to become the witness.
I hope the consciousness directing the Traveler doesn't have anything to do with the precursors. If they're setting it up as a big magic cueball that even they never understood with all their advanced technology and light powers, one of their own should not be retconned in as the guiding intelligence for the Traveler.
naaah this part of the story should probably be heavy on philosophy. I'm not a Nietzche fanboy but it makes sense for the precursors to deal with those themes
So, ALL the factions among this 'precursor' species (funny how Bungie cannot walk away from re-using terms from their former Halo franchise) were either murdered or "consolidated" into this Consensus, which the Witness is the personification?
believe the Penitents are the "dominant" faction, it is said that the Penitents voted and the other factions were disbanded. And taking into account the ideology of the penitents (which said that the precursors should intervene and impose the final shape on the universe), the witness follows their line of reasoning.
@@hylianglitchmobber7570that isnt true, the universe of halo and its history was already written by bungie and 343 prior to 343 assuming development over the franchise, its not a 343 creation
Maybe RN is actually inside the Traveler and somehow the reason it escaped the first attempt to merge with the Veil that led to the Witness chasing it, it could in fact be the “pale heart” that holds the key and is helping guide the Traveler to terraform planets and escape or maybe we’re gonna be visited by it and get its help defeating the Witness idk but I feel like if they added this lore when they released Lightfall people would have maybe embraced it a bit more
I thoughtbthe same thing about RN being inside the traveler. Either that or the pale girl with blue eyes that was in the early concept art from D1 cut scene when the 3 astronauts landed on Mars and discovered the traveler. Who knows. But this will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Great video.
I wonder if the voice inside the traveller is a precursor or group of precursors which fled their homeworld with the traveler. Maybe still hoping to maintain the universe as a garden and find a champion race (The hive, then the fallen, and eventually us) strong enough to prevent the witness from enacting its final shape.
It’s also interesting that this seems to be a version of the flower game debate that happened between the Gardener and Winnower but the actual transcript of the conversation they had and not a metaphorical conversation between gods or forces. The glass minds trimming the branches also make me think of the Vex and how they seemed to be a part of the flower game as well - I could be wrong but I seem to remember something about how the Vex seemed like an infestation in the flower game or that it always resulted in them or something like that, either way pretty cool lore
The flower game always had the same pattern as the outcome (the vex) until the gardener proposed a new rule (something something complex life over simple efficient existence ) which led to everything else in the universe and started the whole light and darkness conflict
@@El_Hombre_OG I don't think the flower game's recurring conclusion was the Vex, I'm pretty sure it was the destruction / stagnation of the garden. The Vex sprang into existence as a consequence of the Gardener and Winnower entering physical reality, like the Vex being one of the oldest races ever. Would make sense that the Precursors would employ the Vex (glass minds) to simulate the future
@@boyholland Praedyth said in D1 that the Vex are fixated on the pattern, everything must fit or be cut away (but he also said, the Vex have an end, they cant avoid it, and their end is to become taken) keeping in mind that the Vex is the fluid and NOT the machines, its easy to see that the Vex infected everything (if lifeforms consume the fluid they will be physically changed), and assimulated any lifeforms it encountered (HIVE-VEX lore states, the Vex made their own Oryx) so when the flower game was played, the Vex fluid mustve changed everything, resulting in many failed attempts by the Gardener to stop it, thus the pattern emerged, which resulted in the rage quit
Is it just me or is this starting to all sound really biblical? A garden, a gardener, the first followers of the gardener, and an original and destroyed garden that will be remade. Watching a species destroy itself, cities turning on themselves, a species destined for destruction without intervention. A lot of mentions of difficulty and suffrage to reach an end goal of perfection. Repeated mentions of salvation from The Witness in previous parts of the game. I’ve heard Bungie make comments on the bible before in terms of storytelling, but maybe they’re actually trying to use it for some reason? Based on some of the things they’ve said about it and some of their obvious ideals it does seem like they could try to make some twisted analogy.
Such altruism is so toxic. Thinking that everyrhing that dies has a final shape and we should concern ourselves with everything that is or might die and how they die. Such a cultlike mind set
I really like how Bungie always throws in the wildcard character in its story arcs. The X factor (or defector...) they can rely on to turn the story whichever way they want: Taox Mithrax Caiatl Savathun Lysander And now this RS precursor.
Your last video where you theorize about the vex being human made them so much more interesting. Considering that the guardian from the future and Saint 14 were both respected ceremonially by the Vex is also a huge indicator that they might have been human once since Saint 14's Grave looked like a Human Tomb and not something a highly logical robot species would do.
@@KinkShamer Only one of the Nine helped Ghaul attack the city. It has been implied in the lore that it was "Mercury" that disabled the warsats that allowed Ghaul to sneak up on the city.
So the being that fled is inside the Traveller and if we don’t stop it merging with the Witness through the connected Veil, we lose. That’s actually kinda sick
I hope they explain the change of heart in terms of the witness, cause the group that became the witness initially wanted to improve on the universe so doing so with the goal of fear and pain etc makes little sense. I can get the point of goals justifying means but if theres a way that causes less suffering then the one they chose it doesnt make sense.
Great, now we have two lore-important characters missing: Taox and that one Precursor guy. Jokes aside (but I really want to know if those two are still alive, NGL), now I understand why in that cutscene when Ahsa talks to us about the Witness' origin there are a lot of corpses and pieces of them lying in the floor near the Witness, I guess they were the precursor faction members that lost and perhaps their minds were later forced to merge with the others to create the Witness using the Veil. This is really interesting.
It would be funny if the entirety of the Unveiling book is just based on the relationship between RS and HN. It would also mirror how many real world religions got started, just a falling out of powerful rulers turned into lore.
So this might be that the Nine could be a separated group of "philosophers" from the wittnesses species?? They have been watching us using ligth and dark. May be they saw something in us that their species did not.
Honestly RN is much more intriguing because what happened after that precursor left where did RN go did the traveler leave they're species shortly after they became the concensus did RN hitch a ride with the traveler I'm so ready to heat some theories
I feel like there's a lot of hints/references in the dialogue that HNW is somehow connected with the Traveler. Perhaps it went inside and escaped to avoid being fused with the rest of its kind.
So in the end basically all the witnesses is truly doing is doing what he wants for his people. This is to essentially restore what they once were with no light no dark in the universe but a purpose behind it. Funny to think I told someone that about 6 months ago. I really do hope we see what he will look like in a final form when we eliminate him for good.
They likely simply found it while expanding during their golden age. They wouldn't have known how to "use" it immediately, but they would have had centuries, or even millennia, to study it and learn how best to interact with it.
What if RS is the pilot of the traveler. Which would also align with the old concept art and give even more motivation for the “witness” to chase the traveler.
Gonna be wild when we find out that the precursor who left before the Witness was formed turns out to be the mystery woman cut from the D1 opening scene where we find the Traveler on Mars... Bonus info is we find out the two were in love and that explains the reaching out and not wanting to feel incomplete even after the merger would be finalized. 🍿🥱
