Well got longer than i expected but it probably contains some information you have not heard yet (I hope 😅). Tell me about your theories in the comments (I don't want to hear about) why the series will fail or politics. Let's talk about the lore. Artwork and special thanks to: ➥ Kimberly80 - deviantart.com/kimberly80 ➥ Ted Nasmith - tednasmith.com ➥ Laura Tolton - deviantart.com/lauratolton ➥ BeneF - deviantart.com/benef ➥ Niahti - artstation.com/niahti ➥ Sara Morello Art - deviantart.com/samo-art ➥ Jenny Dolfen Art - patreon.com/jennydolfen ( goldseven.wordpress.com - etsy.com/de/shop/JennyDolfen ) ► Social Media: ➥ Twitter (@PhilosophGames): twitter.com/philosophgames ➥ Twitch Channel - twitch.tv/thephilosophersgames ➥ Discord Server - discord.gg/SPW68vh ► Of Games and Rings Podcast: ➥ Spotify - open.spotify.com/episode
#TeamTirion #TeamEarendil Tolkienprofessor Corey Olsen has a nice theory about Earendil. The light could be an illusion, it could be the descending sun going down in the west behind the destroyed trees at the end of the First Age. Earendil, father of Elrond and Elros(First King of Númenor) and first man, who (illegally) stepped on the land of the Valar, could explain a lot that would be relevant for the Second Age-Show.(Elros, Elrond, Númenor, Ar-Pharazôn(later), Valar, Eru, War of Wrath) Aber geiles Video, Buddy! ;-)
Ps. It would be really cool to get some screen time with ungoliant, like while people are running past ered gorgoroth! It doesn't even have to be a full blown conflict. Just like a head nod that that is ungoliant's turf! I dunno I've just always been fascinated by Ungoliant, like it took Melkore and Balrogs to scare her! But Shelob can sit on the tip of my sword for all I care!
Amazon to artists: "Make it look as accurate to the books as you can" Tolkien readers: *in depth analysis of a single image questions whether stairs are made of crystals" Artists: *sweating*
haha yes good point 😅 One should not 100% expect it to be accurate, but I found it fascinating how much information is hidden across the books. It was fun uncovering it
@@ThePhilosophersGames Actually i have a huge bad feeling about this whole series... Amazon president ordered near the end of Game Of Thrones, to make for Amazon their own Game Of Thrones!! But Game of thrones is nothing like Tolkiens works, even Martin said that. The spirit in Tolkien's books is that of the epic struggle through time of various great generations of races to fight off dark lords. The spirit of Martins books are cleary following political changes, happening in medieval fashion between power hungry houses, and there were not a clear depiction of evil vs good at least for the most part. Martin himself had said that even though he idolises Tolkien, he knew that if he wanted to be successful he should write a book immitating as less as possible Tolkien, something most other authors are failing to do so. So now if we get to see, same aesthetics, soft porn, nudity, agenda messages, femminist propaganda etc etc and of course a lot of new characters created for the show in order to carry all the above tasks resulting, in a ultimate alteration from the original works, because they would try to immitate Game of thrones show, then it would be bad as hell, especially for us Tolkien lore fans. It will hurt deeply to see things we wanted to see, getting raped.
2 minutes into the video and just have to say, "era" is *systematically* mis-pronounced this way, in English, by native English speakers so you have plenty of company, no worries. Also - your Tolkien accent fucking rocks, heavy rolling 'R' and all, don't dare change it even slightly - your hugely respectful, lore-friendly pronounciaton is part of what makes your channel really stand out.
Yes I say it wrong all the time (when not thinking about it) and for some time I did not know why. My theory: in my native language (German) it's written "Ära" and pronounced "a-rah" (with the German R). So every time I read it in English I must subconsciously think Ä -> e so -> ara. Also thank you, happy you enjoy my content and my pronunciation ^^ Much appreciated!
@theamazingbatboy Thanks for pointing that out! However, if I can nitpick language as well, “systematically” means that something is done by following a certain process, whereas I think the word you might be looking to use is “systemically”, which means something that is widespread through a whole system or group. Another example of people making this mistake is saying the phrase “systematic oppression” when they are trying to say “systemic oppression”.
@@dawsonallen4348 True, cheers. It didn't feel like the word I was after - something constant and banal. In retrospect 'routinely' would have suited better :)
@@dawsonallen4348 Mm, I think I'd have to go with "systematically", although I get your reasoning. Consider a scientific experiment which consistently produces an erroneous result because of some equipment fault or process fault. That's called a systematic error. And the process fault in this case is the instinct drawing towards native language pronunciation.
Amazon flipped the image horizontally before they posted it. That's why it looks like Tirion is on the southern side, and Laurelin is to the left of Telperion instead of to the right as it should be. That's my guess. Also I think the person in the picture could be Eönwë. Manwë's banner-bearer. Because if we assume they are showing us a prologue of all the important events happening before Numenor came to be then Eönwë was present at all the major events and especially at the war of wrath where Eonwe was the one to personally slay Melkor & then told Sauron to go to Manwe to ask for forgiveness, but then Sauron fled. Then Eönwë gave the Edain men the gift of long life. So he must be VERY important to the Numenoreans. So Eonwe is really perfect to use as a prologue narrative for a second age story.
Yes Eonwë is an interesting idea too. Yes flipping the picture might do the trick. I also noticed that e.g. Karen Wynn Fonstad also had Telperion from this perspective left of Laurelin (east), but I sadly had not the time to look into the sources for that and I don't know them out of my head. But you could be right.
That will be tough weeks 😅 But producing long videos in this length and detail will usually take me more than a week. I have to see how I will handle this. Maybe a short review and then with delay a detailed analysis? Still thinking about how to manage all that, but yes we will have a deep dive into the series at some point too
@@ThePhilosophersGames I completely understand, I forgot how much time it takes to produce videos to this level of quality and information, please take as much time as you need - it's worth the wait!
no problem ^^ Well it still got pretty long, but better compared to the 5 hour long (spntaneous) stream and I could add some thoughts and do some more research on the topic.
Very excited for the show! It’s good to have another video from you, it’s been a while. As excited as I am for the show I recently finished rereading the Children of Hurin and, while that tale has a very dark tone and very mature themes, I think it would be good to set to film one day.
I don’t like it. I don’t like how the two trees are envisioned by the show creators. It just looks like they moved the afternoon sun into the tree branches. One tree is supposed to be golden, the other silver. As it stands now, one tree looks like it’s decorated with incandescent bulbs, and the other with neon white LED’s.
Well, isn’t it that they’re supposed to be in bloom one at a time? Like Laurelin is in bloom at the moment and lighting the world in a golden sun-like manner while Telperion is dark because it isn’t blooming at that time.
I never pictured Laurelin to glow in a sun like manor to be honest. What gets me is the sky. I still expected to see stars, maybe not right up against the trees, but this all just looks like a scenic view you might find in any old country here on earth. There is no otherworldly beauty that I can see here. Just a fancy Christmas tree.
Great video as usual, you brought up some very interesting points I hadn't really considered. Two things stood out to me: If the person is truly carrying a sword, then the timeframe is very narrow (as you said) - but this makes sense. I imagine a prologue about the destruction of the two trees and the flight of the Noldor to start off the series. And also (i thought about this before), the whole description of Galadriel as "Nerwen" seems to contradict Tolkien's statement elsewhere that the "Nissi" are equal in mental and physical prowess to the "Neri", at least before bearing a child. But maybe she just made use of these abilities more than most, going against "tradition" (though there's also Aredhel)? And finally, one small thing where I disagree: I don't think that Galadriel carrying a sword is out-of-character, as we see references to her standing tall amidst the princes of the Noldor as the only woman and also fighting in Alqualonde (depending on the version of the story, of course). Therefore, it makes sense to me that she would carry a sword just like Fingolfin, Feanor, Fingon and the others would at the time.
Thank you ^^ Happy you liked that part Yes you are right. I was referring more to the "unbuffed" Galadriel, who makes Lembas in Doriath 😅 Though ofc I also reference this passage myself. You can for sure make an argument for that. Good point on Nissi/Neri, but with all those versions there might be inconsistencies.
Loved learning many interesting things about the geography and history of Aman. Also, though I mostly lean towards Galadriel bring the protagonist in this prelude and photo, I love the idea of Glorfindel and how it so smoothly correlates to the themes of the second age fir the rest of the show.
Happy you found it interesting ^^ Yes those would be plausible. I sadly forgot to mention Celebrimbor. He is important for the Second Age too, was maybe born in Tirion too, though he might have dark hair too.
Speaking of geography and the question of rivers flowing through Tirion, someone pointed out that The Atlas of Middle-earth Book by Karen Wynn Fonstad has a map clearly depicting a river flowing from Tirion down through the pass to the sea. Of course it doesn’t explain water seen to the west of Tirion but that could be just a show thing. The idea of a river flowing from the Two Trees is a beautiful concept.
Yes I mentioned it in the video. The Atlas hs a river there, but i could find no source for it in the books. I'm very curious if somebody knows on what source this is based (or maybe it was just a bit of artistic freedom?).
All this new end credit is beautifully done and I enjoy your chatter at the end. Your videos are always great and this one was more than great. Like Cracker Jacks with extra peanuts and a nicer prize than usual in the bottom of the box!!
haha thank you (nice way of phrasing it) ^^ I also appreciate your support and I think end credits like these are fun ^^ Happy you enjoyed them and the video. I'm also pretty happy with the video except for some minor mistakes. It's so much fun to have this amount of artwork available, esp. of so many very talented artists. It#s always nice if I can show the things I talk about.
@@ThePhilosophersGames What are your rules about displaying art? For instance, I wish one of the channels, yours perhaps?? would do a video using amatur art from their membership...wink wink. We are so fortunate that the professional fan art is made available for use to enjoy and I for one have never seen anything except on these videos. I can't find anyone willing to sell their art within my price range but I think they don't want to sell because so much of it is used commercially as on these channels and websites. Mine would be free...to you. Because no one in their right mind would pay for it. Hahahahah
I guess it depends on the video. Ofc from the perspective of making videos and grow my channel, I feel the need to get access to high quality artworks (which I did so far) or simply art I think is awesome. I ofc want to set my videos apart from others while respecting the terms of the artists. However I could see making videos "for the community" using art from the community. Might be a pretty fun idea. The problem is ofc I need enough art ^^ I know my moderator Círdan made some art too. So we might get a few artworks from the community. I might announce it as such and hint at it being community art and it should work and could be quite fun.
@@ThePhilosophersGames So many times I read comments from the crowd and the knowledge they have is well out of my league so I am stifled maybe. Now, I don’t mind asking “stupid” questions because I was raised to understand that no question is ignorant if the answer is not known to you. The joy is in the receiving of the knowledge.The same with this art quality subject. We are all capable of some degree of quality but we see so much exquisite artwork that we are stifled in our offering. Art comes from a special place inside. I think some will surprise you (mine won’t cuz it’s like a 5th grader!) and some will give you a good laugh. Let us all first laugh at ourselves and then offer special part of ourselves as a gift to bring some small or large amount of joy to others. Let’s us laugh and be in awe/awful of each other!
@@PleaseNThankYou I love your attitude towards art and life! Here's a reminder that no matter how '5th grade' you think your art is there are many who will love it more than art you think is 'out of your league' www.unilad.co.uk/animals/rubbish-dog-drawing-wins-contest-over-artists-drawing/
Laurelin is the unloved child... :D Things that comes from Laurelin: the sun. Things that comes from Telperion: the moon, the stars, the white trees ^^.
Valmar is famously a city with roofs of gold. The roofs of the city in the picture are clearly golden. And it is deliberately placed with a clear view of the trees. Of course the writers mean to indicate that it is Valmar. And if you think the trees are a bit far away, I guess that just makes room for the ring of doom. It just needs the thrones, as far as I remember no one said it would be humongous.
I red this before, but could not find anything in the books 😄 Do you by any chance know a the source for the golden roofs of Valmar? I found the following things described for the City of the Valar: - Golden Streets - Golden Gates - Bells - Fountains - Close to the Two Trees and the Ring of Doom For the roofs I only found one hint of them being silver (in Silamrillion, Of the Darkening of Valinor): "But Melkor looked north, and saw afar the shining plain, and the silver domes of Valmar gleaming in the mingling of the lights of Telperion and Laurelin." This also talks about "domes" in a not specified number. So it does not say that all domes or roofs were silver. That's possible too, but we only know that there were silver domes, not how many. Though this does not exclude golden roofs at all too, but there is no mention of golden roofs or domes at all I know of. TolkienGateway also mentions Golden Roofs, but they name no source for it. That is why I don't discuss it in the video. I looked for it a bit, but could not find anything. maybe in the History of Middle-earth books? However while doing research I only found the posted mention of them being silver.
Could the Elf pictured perhaps be Fëanor? If they're showing the two trees they may show their demise, and the history of the Silmarils would be a logical extension of that. That would be a lot to cover for a prologue though!
@@ThePhilosophersGames Good point. I think it's probably way too early for it to be Celebrimbor, although, I don't remember when he was born off the top of my head. I would love Glorfindel to have a big role in the series, but I'm not holding my breath, and I would hope he would have glorious long hair.
❤️ It just requíres a heart, because a thumbs-up alone doesn't cut it. I so much enjoyed half-an-hour bathing the light of the two trees, while being taken on a mind-journey of you awesome analysis. I was really impressed, slightly mesmerised, how much sourced focus you brought to bear after (in the best sense) the kind of stream-of-consciousness of your live stream. I'm really looking forward to your 'Who is Elrond' videos. If I might allow myself a criticism of the world at large you have far too few subscribers, and I think a petition Námo to broadcast your series in the Halls of Mandos is in order, that JRRT might join us to watch with fascination the journey of your tale. Good luck Chris!
haha I like the phrase "stream-of-consciousness of your live stream" ^^ I really need some time to process and esp. write things down for structure and more precision. Having a few days to think about it also helps greatly. Yes people seem to not like subscribing to my channel, even in months where I have a really good views. It's a bit unfortunate. Much appreciated, thank you :)
@@ThePhilosophersGames Mm, I'll share this thought just in case it's useful: I searched for hours to find your channel again before I subscribed. The reason I didn't subscribe at first is that I'm a Tolkien fan but 'ThePhilosophersGames' hints that Tolkien is a small part of the content. For other mixed-content channels (like 'InDeepGeek' and 'Hello Future Me') I can always pick-off relevant episodes from my RU-vid 'Home' page. But yours don't seem to arrive there? (Not algorithm-friendly enough?) Anyway, what I learned is that your videos are in a different league - I should have subscribed from the start. And maybe that's a useful message to your viewers: 'This seems to be an algorithm-spurned channel: a subscription is likely the only way to avoid losing the channel in the RU-vid indeterminacy field'. (^_-)
Interesting. Though a lot of my views come from suggestions and the YT home page according to analytics. Sometimes 10 times more than I get from subscribers, which I'm always surprised about. Yes I think having a channel that covers two topics is a huge disadvantage when it comes to subscribers., though my content is mainly LotR these days with a few exceptions.
LOL! I was going to ask you about the Elrond video but you anticipated me by posting it in the end! Looking forward to seeing that as well as more book versus movie analyses! 😁
Yes I'm sorry, that it takes me so long to make it. I planned to release it much earlier, but it just continued to get longer. The book/movie analysis will continue too at soem point.
WOW! RU-vid is pathetic! Im just NOW (Saturday 29/01/2022, 1:00am Australian Time) seeing your video in my recommendations! Im happy though, to hear your voice again!
I do not buy the idea of either Galadriel or Glorfindel for two reasons. The 1st is the figure looks masculine (thus eliminating Galadriel) and as far as I'm concerned that is clearly brown hair (thus eliminating Glorfindel). My guess is Eonwe. He is the most powerful of the maiar and if they wanted to be accurate to the spirit of the Silmarillion the best choice of a narrator would be Eonwe. If my guess for where the narrative actually begins is correct then Eonwe is even more perfect. I suspect (and hope) that the story begins just after Morgoth's defeat with Sauron begging Eonwe for clemency. As such we could have Eonwe narrate everything that happened before the event leading up to that.
pretty nice theory. i thought about Eonwe too, but I imagine him more "angelic" (what ever that means) as the leader of the Maiar. Like you see he is the boss even if you only see his back. But still valid. I also thought about the sons of Fëanor or Fingolfin (maybe looking a last time at Tirion).
That sounds incredible; Except the two trees were destroyed before Sauron would have ever had the need to beg for clemency; if we assume this is the beginning of the story. Otherwise as a prologue; having Eönwë stand before the Calacirya and overlooking Tirion and the two trees; maybe even as the lights of them were struck by Ungoliant, and then proceeding into Sauron’s pleas and then fast forwarding again; in a way echoing the beginning to the Fellowship; would be incredible.
Yes I've been working on my "Who is Elrond?" video for quite some time now, it will be like 4+ hours long (coming in maybe 2 or 3 parts). No release date yet though. Hope part 1 will be done soon ^^
@@ThePhilosophersGames yeah that sounds amazing I'm going to be watching that as soon as it comes out will be keeping eyes peeled for sure. Nice to chat to you again, an glad to know your doing ok.
Definitely the city of Tirion and the Two Trees as seen thru the Calicirya, the Pass of Light. As noted, the image has been flipped. From this vantage point the city should be on the right.
Man I noticed you answered each and every comment, so I just want to prove a point. Anyways, what an amazing video, I didn't really have much interest in the image until I saw this video.
haha thank you, happy I could spark some interest :) Also for giving my video a chance ^^ I try to read and answer as many new "stand alone" comments as possible (always) - so almost all. Seeing answers to existing comments are a bit tricky though and sometimes I don't have the time and forget to answer a comment later or I don't see them.
Thank you ^^ Ofc I don't know the exact details of their license and contract with the estate, but what I heard is they negotiated to get a bit more (maybe Unfinished Tales stuff?). Originally it was said only LotR and LotR Appendices and being allowed to cover the Second Age without directly doing something LotR related. Something like this. It was said though in an interview that they were allowed to briefly show even First Age things of other sources if they need those for exposition purposes, so to explain what is going on in the Second Age (they can't focus on it though as far as I understood it). How much they expanded this in re-negotiations I don't know, but I assume this stayed similar and that they only got access to more texts about the Second Age.
@@ThePhilosophersGames Ah okay, makes sense. Thanks for the response! Side note: Hopefully they don't make it obvious that they don't have access to certain storyline material. For example, in The Hobbit movie, Gandalf said he could not rememeber the names of the two blue wizards. I understand Pallando and Alatar were not included in the lotr & hobbit books, but gandalf (movie story wise) forgetting their names doesn't make any sense!
no problem ^^ The thing with Alatar and Pallando is that Tolkien change their names later. In some versions they are called Pallando and Alatar and in a later one Morinehtar and Rómestámo. From that perspective we don't know their names. These are also Quenya names and would have gotten others in Middle-earth I guess, which we don't know at all. But I was surprised they were mentioned at all in the Hobbit, because that the other 2 Wizards are the Blue Wizards is also only mentioned in the Unfinished Tales and Peoples of Middl-earth (there is one mentions in LotR that there are 5 wizards, but who the last two are is not mentioned). So technically PJ referenced material from outside the license it seems. Ofc it's not a big deal and he only mentions two "Blue Wizards", so I can't imagine it's a problem at all, but still interesting.
Possible, what made me not include him , was that Fëanor had dark hair (does not look that dark) and him not having an active role Second Age (except for exposition). I can ofc see them explaining some backstory of him in flashbacks, but I think it would make sense to show somebody that also appears in the series. Time wise (last 500 years of the Years of the Trees) might fit though.
It's an interesting dive into the information/speculation but I think I am going to skip the whole thing. I really tried to get excited but even if it incorporates published material from the 2nd age, it's too much like fanfiction to me. The actual works are written more closely like a pre-modern epic retelling than a modern novel. To have characters focused on the way modern literature does just doesn't feel right. Hope everyone else likes it though! It won't effect my enjoyment of the books at all.
Yes, I can understand that concern. It will be for sure a ton of fan fiction and will they hit Tolkien's style with e.g. dialogues, etc. I'm personally curious and will likely look into this, when the series comes out.
@@ThePhilosophersGames I think the Witcher tv series is also badly miscast and I think they are leaving out some of the best parts of the books, but again I can still enjoy the books and games as before.
What about it being Gandalf? We know Amazon want to put him in, he could do the prologue. We know that he was in Aman then and didn't have a fixed form then like the rest of the Maiar and when the Maiar had a form, they took the shape of an elf. It could also be Melkor as he did have a fair form then, could be the scene before he goes to the south of Aman after Fëanor refused him and shut the doors of Formenos in Melkor's face. It could he him finally coming up with his plan to kill the trees and take the Silmarils?
Gandalf is not in Middle-earth during the Second Age (and I can't imagine him being important for the show), but ofc he is Aman at this time, so it would be possible. Melkor/Morgoth I would also exclude. Melkor's presence I think would be greater (same with e.g. Eönwë).
Oh my goodness...we are on the "same page" with our thoughts of this image and I want to show you something that I will send via email. Its a curios thing but may lead to a clue. But I do not think this is Tirion. Let me clarify, maybe Tirion , but an Image only. I think it is a composite image of a dream... The figure standing on a hill or plateau in realtime, looking out into an "image" of a time remembered.
Yes I planned on doing one (even started writing it a bit) but it's such a big project, that I kept putting it off for as long as possible (if that's the right idiom).
@@ThePhilosophersGames I can imagine that. It must be very extensive to cover the life span of Valar of that caliber... Thanks for always high-quality videos, incredibly cool pronunciation of names. I often listen to the longest videos while drawing and it inspires me a lot, especially with that incredible pronunciation. There are always other channels that cover this lore but your is the best by a mile and I listen to your ones only so I'll patiently wait for the Morgoth as I've been waiting for Half Life 3 all these years. I already even plan to start drawing some characters you always talk about in such an epic way. Your Tolkien videos are really my fuel for drawings very often. Take care man
I think you have the wrong perspective. Tolkien basically wrote the movies with LoTR. All of the visuals and dialogue and scene cuts were in the books. The reason the series might not be as good is because Tolkien didn't write it. Consider the mirror of Galadriel where Tolkien has the flaming eye in the mirror and steam coming out of the water while the ring is dragging Frodo down towards it. Then Galadriel uses her ring to put a spotliight on herself, saying "all shall love me and despair." Tolkien would have been an amazing screenwriter.
Yeah, Tirion is a good call. The figure could be Ingwë, high king of the Vanyar. If I'd had such a beautiful city built for me I'd have probably spent a lot of time admiring it. And I'd have made sure I had one of the few existing swords.~
I think the figure is an Elf rather than a Maia, and most likely Glorfindel. The timing doesn't work for Sauron as you and others have mentioned and though it would be cool to see / hear from Eonwe, I'd discount that for several reasons. First, aesthetically, the figure doesn't look impressive enough. As an Ainu, he could take any fana he wanted of course, but I just think it would be something more. Secondly, I think the show runners will want to be fairly vague and limited in their use of Ainur generally (except Sauron). Those familiar with the books will understand why the Powers played a limited role in Middle Earth after the end of the First Age but for the more casual watchers it might be a bit weird to find out there's a whole group of demigods chilling out in Aman and doing (relatively speaking) virtually nothing to help out in the face of catastrophes in Middle Earth. Their only proactive steps in the Second Age (off the top of my head) are sending back Glorfindel and possibly Pallando and Alatar. LOTR (book and films) barely mentioned the Powers beyond naming Varda and the nature of the Istari wasn't dug into. They just were who they were as characters. So PJ didn't have this problem. Amazon would, I think, if the Ainur are given prominence in the first episode(s). As well as presumably setting the scene by referring to the destruction of the Trees, through to the departure of the Noldor etc, they'll have to reference the intervention at the end of the FA, but the more they use the Powers, the more they'll constantly have to add exposition to remind most of the audience why those Powers aren't helping 'now'. The Powers will play a role in the Numenor side of the story, which might lead indirectly to similar problems, but the internal Numenor storyline and the Elves vs Sauron and Rings of Power storylines are quite compartmentalised. If it is an Elf and if the figure shown is going to be narrating a Prologue, as seems to be the popular theory, then I think they'd go for someone who is going to be in the show, probably with a significant role. If it takes the form of an "I remember..." monologue, then it needs to be someone alive at the time the 'current events' of the show begin. That rules out FA casualties like Feanor and his sons, Fingolfin, Turgon etc etc. It can't be Elrond or Cirdan or any of the Avari Elves. That really only leaves Galadriel or Glorfindel from the anticipated 'major' characters and, of those two, I'd go for Glorfindel. Galadriel would be creatively symmetric as a nod to the Prologue from the films, but might be jarring to an audience that (before this show) associates Cate Blanchett with that character. Could be off-putting for their initial audience and after the mind-boggling amounts of money they've spent on this, I think they're going to be very risk-averse for that first episode. Glorfindel wasn't used in the films so Amazon can use him and not run up against the same preconceptions.
Yes very good and well articulated points. That is also why I don't think it's Eönwë too. he is the boss of the Maiar, I would imagine his stature to be more impressive. Like you wee him even from behind and know OK this guy is the "boss" of the Maiar. I think one character I forgot to mention is Celebrimbor. He is also a candidate and important for the Second Age. But I like the Glorfindel theory most ^^
@@ThePhilosophersGames Do you know when Celebrimbor was born? I know he's a son of Curufin but a quick check of some online sources doesn't reveal any details about him prior to his participation in the second and third battles of the War of the Jewels. Given his achievements, I suppose he must have lived in Aman in the time of the Trees, so he ought to be a possibility. On the other hand, Celebrimbor is at least initially fooled by Sauron in his Annatar persona. If Celebrimbor had lived long in Aman he would surely have been drawn to Aule and the Maiar who served him. Wouldn't that make him less in 'need' of Sauron's teaching and also more likely to spot him for what he really was? Finally, Celebrimbor is going to die unpleasantly about half way through the SA. If you put that alongside him getting fooled by Sauron, I think he's a tragic character whose arc ends badly even though he manages to heroically resist spilling the beans on where Vilya, Nenya and Narya are. So maybe not who the show will want people to most 'invest' in? That might make him a lower probability choice for narrator. BTW - totally on board with the long videos - roll on an Elrond epic! Thanks for the work you put into these.
No sadly I don't know when he was born either. I know there were some changes to the character in his time in Gondolin, but not if there is any mention of him being in Aman. Would need to look into this. But very good point, you want to keep the narrator, though maybe it's a way to create a "shock moment" (if desired). haha no problem, I hope people will enjoy the Elrond video, thank you ^^
definitely Nerwen. i bet she will be the main character of the entire series. the writers heard her description and probly didn't even consider another character after that.
you say that like it’d be a bad thing. But this is a huge and unwarranted leap in logic. Galadriel narrated the introduction to LotR, but one would hardly say she was the main character. It would be natural for her to narrate the prologue to this show as well since she remembers the entire story of the Silmarils. Nobody else remaining in Middle Earth at the beginning of the 2nd Age remembered the entire story. So if they are giving us a simplified version of the Quenta Silmarillion (which they’d need to in order to introduce Elros) then Galadriel would be the narrator for that part.
No problem ^^ Happy peopel show interest in the series! It will be continued. A character that we might have to talk about would be Elrond, so I started making a special episode video about Elrond like the Glorfindel one, but the script is currently 70 pages long, which makes this video far over 4 hours long. So i will probably release it as a "Who is Elrond?" character study video but in its core it's also a special episode of this sieres. I need to release it in 2-3 parts (or something like this). i plan the first episode to be 2 hours long (longest and most detailed video I have ever done)
the way you pronounce 'era' is the same way i and anyone i've ever met in person pronounces it. maybe the long e is a british thing? either way, the 'correct' pronunciation isn't whats in a book, it's what most people use. language is alive!
oh interesting ^^ I think I say it this way because in my native language (German) it's written "Ära" and also pronounced "a-rah" (with a German R sound) and I subconsciously assume the E in era is pronounced like that too.
Why not start at the beginning with the song of the Ainur through the end of the first age. Tell it in a few minutes.. a flash of the elves waking in Cuiveinen, Valinor, Feanor, Morgoth, Fingolfin v Morgoth, the War of Wrath, the ruin of Beleriand, and finally, Numenor. Why not go all in on the first scene? A few minutes..
Ofc it would be awesome and maybe they do it. It's just one image of the first episode, I think we don't know what it appears during the episode. But I would argue it's too much information. I always struggle to summarize something "shortly" when it is from these early times. Without confusing your audience who is not into the lore, you need tons of exposition.
The Ainulindalë is the last thing I'll want to see rendered in visual form, ever. Not only because its so mystical, but putting actual song and music to it will ruin it forever. Nothing that people can actually make will measure to the individual reader's imagination, and once they do that they will essentially "attach" the music as what everyone knows, kinda like how many people now image Balrogs and Legolas with blond hair even though the way they were depicted by Peter Jackson is not necessarily accurate to Tolkien.
Yes. The Elrond video I'm currently working on was once part of it (like the Glorfindel video), but it got too long and I will release it as one of the "Who is ..." character study videos (coming in like 2-3 parts) as mentioned.
@@ThePhilosophersGames have you checked out Ashes of Creation yet? It's in alpha but it looks VERY promising. As for the pic, I think it's a dream sequence...just enough to get everyone talking....
Feanor!!! First to have a sword (if that is a sword--but it looks like he is wearing a jacket or tunic at the very least and has a man's shoulders). It fits if this is a prologue--he has reason to contemplate the light of the trees, and his actions impact everything that comes next.
Yes Fëanor as he takes a last look at Tirion would work (though he moves over to Formenos later). The reason why i did not include him was, because he won't play much of a role in the Second Age (and I think he had dark hair). But you could be absolutely right.
@@ThePhilosophersGames Hard to tell the hair color with the light on it--but Feanor sets off the chain of events for the Second Age, so as a prologue it would work--like showing the Last Alliance at the beginning of the LOTR movies
yes that is true he would be important to mention for the Second Age (Celebrimbor is also his grandson (in some versions)). But would it not be "smoother" from a film making perspective to use a character that remains an "active" character, that is what I meant.
@@ThePhilosophersGames I see what you mean--that could be a problem. On the other hand, they showed the Last Alliance and Isildur in LOTR movies so it could work to show Feanor. Can't avoid somehow mentioning him/explaining things for a Second Age show, no? P.S. Love your videos!
Hello Chris! I had a great idea and have shared it with other channels. I will mention it here without details but hopefully your patrons will also think it a good idea. I also joined your discord. Please advise if there is a better way to contact you… So the Centennial year for events of the T.A. of Middle Earth is fast closing. The last event, the END OF THE T.A. Sept 29, 3021. I’ve asked some of the others if a group effort might be possible to commemorate the centennial. Would you be interested in joining? Tolkien Road Podcast and Dork Lord have said yes and I’m awaiting Nerd of the Rings to reply back. I was hoping that if this got into the ears of you guys, it would spread faster.
That is an interesting idea, yes I would join. Discord, Twitter, Mail work for contact. Next month ofc could be a bit busy, because a new book with unpublished Tolkien material will release called nature of Middle-earth. That could keep us busy for some time.
@@ThePhilosophersGames Well maybe something will slip in to celebrate. Maybe A photo montage of T.A. events from anyone who would like to put up an extra short 5 minute video. Kind of like a memorial. Each could use footage from their videos on T.A. characters and places, events, etc. I realize I didn't think of this sooner but its been on my mind. These past 3 years are a concentration of important events and I feel that so many opportunities have slipped by without notice in the community. there won't be another chance for another hundred years or a thousand years to celebrate this mark. Your Elrond video could be a part of that passing. What a fine example.
I don't know how others feel about the LOTR series but the fact that the guy who's making decided to put sex in them is the first sign for me that makes me not feel good about it. Even Tolkien himself said that he left out sex from his works, I doubt he would be happy to see this becoming Game of Thrones 2.0
I think there is no indication that there will be sex scenes in LotR. There is some kind nudity (maybe Drúedain (would make sense)? Or again naked Dwarves bathing in Rivendell 😅) and there is an intimacy coordinator, but in big production those can be hired even for kissing scenes, esp. in union productions. Ofc there could be sex scenes, but it's not confirmed and maybe just a bit of overblown internet drama.
@@ThePhilosophersGames Thanks for assuring me. I don't mind mild romantic scenes though. And I hope they will hire actors to play powerful elves like for example Feanor, Fingolfin that look similar to Elrond. I know elves should look so muscular but I don't want any extra soy as for example, you can see in those Chinese fantasy dramas...
We will see, I would think Fëanor and Fingolfin might only play roles in flash backs due to the series playing in the Second Age. So we will see Elrond, Círdan, Galadriel, Celeborn, Celebrían, Thranduil, Gil-galad, Celebrimbor, etc.
I think it totally could be Fëanor too. The reason why i somewhat think it's unlikely is, because he might nt play a big (active) role in the Second Age. Ofc you would need to explain him in a flashback. This might bring me to the idea it could also be Celebrimbor.
@@ThePhilosophersGames I'm not sure they would need to explain it. In the prologue for FOTR, when they're showing the elves receiving the three rings, it shows Galadriel, Cirdan and Gil-Galad, the latter two are never named despite being massively important characters. They could just show Fëanor without mentioning him by name while talking about the Silmarils, which lead to the War of Wrath, which lead to the creation of Númenor. This would also give them the chance to talk about how Telperion's legacy survived in Celeborn, and eventually Nimloth. I imagine Nimloth will feature in the show, if the story will indeed be about the fall of Númenor.
Yes he was around in the Second Age, but this image shows a time far before that on the west continent Aman (so not the continent Middle-earth). So this is during the The Years of the Trees (some count it towards the First Age) and he was most likely not in Aman at this time, but in Middle-earth (I can't say it with 100% certainty, but it is imo he was most likely not in Aman at this time).
Yes sadly YT can be quite bad at notifying people. But the VoD is still up: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-pJMPMCgxJGM.html (edited out the stream starting soon screen) (if you want to see chat too, here's the link to original VoD: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2hgWSgrabP8.html ). But the live stream was also very spontaneous after the announcement of Amazon and i did not stream for some time on YT, due to my work on my massive "Who is Elrond?" video. Btw. Did you receive my email answer? Hope you are doing well ^^
@@ThePhilosophersGames I am doing well, thank you! I’ve missed you as we all have but are eagerly awaiting your Elrond video. Such a fascinating character! Yes, I received it but only after you asked and I went looking… had the same trouble earlier too. Emails not populating well. I actually need a dedicated email as my other are just junked up with irrelevant stuff. Please consider my suggestion. I feel there will never be a better chance to do this.
Yes I would join. Dork Lord seems like a cool and knowledgable dude. As said Nature of Middle-earth (2. September 2021) release and Hobbit Day (22. September 2021) is September too. So busy month.
@@ThePhilosophersGames Sorry, just saw this while I was pitching my sale to you on another comment!😆 They say a good salesman never gives up. I'm trying to be good without being too...much. Well Hobbit day is very close isn't it? I think that's the day the boys set out for the Grey Havens. Yes it is a busy month isn't it!
I guess we would need a closer camera perspective to appreciate it more and see all the details, but you are right Minas Tirith really looked impressive ^^
So we know now who is in the picture, just don’t like the fact that beautiful Finrod Felagund will have short hair. It’s not a big issue but it so annoys me.
Yes it's also really strange that this is supposed to be Finrod (at least according to my RU-vid colleague). I did not expect him to be important enough in a show about the Second Age, to be the first character shown to the audience in the first official image.
I would not mind as @Meduseld Tales said: "Even after the merciless assault upon the Teleri and the rape of their ships, though she [Galadriel] fought fiercely against Feanor in defence of her mother's kin, she did not turn back." This is ofc from Tolkien's increase Galadriel's power phase ^^ As said in the video she most likely could use.
@@ThePhilosophersGames Not to mention there's already a sword-swinging Arwen in the LotR movies and nobody seems to mind that, but now all of a sudden "it's an outrage! Wokeness on a rampage!" (with apologies to OP - I don't know you and I have no idea if that's what you were going for)
I'm sorry, but I highly doubt that the show writers are that well versed in the Tolkien lore like you and that it will translate over to the show. I hope I'm wrong.
haha yes that is a possibility too that they ignore teh lore, but so far it looks like a lot of effort went into making this picture (lore wise) and the Estate has a Veto too and they were counselled by Tom Shippeyfor some time.
