Developmental Editing: Worth It? 

Agreed! There are great points posed in this video, but it overlooks the editors individual style and the state of the manuscript itself.

If it worked for you, fine. Yes, I’d stay away from sensitivity readers. :(

Who did you use for the developmental edit?

Thanks for sharing your perspective. Out of interest, why would you need a sensitivity reader? Just because someone might be insulted by the book's contents doesn't mean you don't have the right to express yourself.

@@Musicienne-DAB1995 Sensitivity readers aren't there to make sure nobody is insulted by your book, that is impossible. However, if, for example, a white, male writer who lives in a primarily middle-class, white neighbourhood writes a book about black women who grew up in a poor, primarily black neighbourhood that he's never seen or visited except for snapshots on TV, he might need a Diversity reader. And I believe the industry has long stopped calling them sensitivity readers. They are Diversity readers now and their job is to make sure that marginalised societies like certain races and people with disabilities are not misrepresented by authors who basically know nothing about these groups. You do have the right to express yourself, but not at the expense of painting someone else in a false light. Clearly, this type of beta reading is not for everyone. But if your book comes out and you get backlash from readers in the form of bad reviews for being stereotypical or racist, you would have wished you had passed it by someone from the marginalised demographic to critique first. $300 is ridiculously high for a diversity reading though. I have done diversity readings, given full report suggestions and I wouldn't charge more than $30-$50, depending on the length of the book.

Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Me too and I agree as well!

Thanks very much.

Thank you. I’d say with five beta readers, you got yourself covered, my friend! :)

This guy oozes confidence, and this is primarily what he has to “sell“ so is it surprising that his perspective on editors is cautious, to put it mildly. The major problem for writers is that they are not fundamentally editors unless they have a journalistic background, or have invested time and money in reading the books available on the subject of editing a novel. Even then, this may not be their major interest and would rather pass it off to someone more expert and better at it. Many writers feel compelled, love the craft and want to develop through writing - not editing. Writing is their hobby - and while they might spend thousands of dollars a year on a gym membership or a sports club, and additional amounts for a personal trainer or a coach, why would they not consider it value for money to do so on a developmental and copy editor? Unfortunately, many writers have little idea of how good their book is and beta readers, unless they have a professional interest, no idea of what is a well written book. Most current fiction isn’t well written, primarily because the publishers editor has little time to develop it, similarly with an agent who might, nevertheless, recommend an editor who might “improve“ the quality of a book. They might even suggest that this is a requirement before they would consider promoting it to a publisher. Agents and publishers are business people - they want to make money. Your first book (or subsequent books) unless you have created a best seller Is in competition with many similar stories in your genre. Readers may not be interested in literary quality fiction, but they do want a good story, compellingly told. The benefits of a developmental editor, focusing on plot and characters, potentially enhances sales to film companies - which significantly benefits a writer’s profile and the sale of subsequent books. Fundamentally, however I agree with La Ronn - It’s all about confidence, but a confidence that has been acquired through development of craftsmanship and technique. Check out the books available on editing a novel all on Amazon, as well as those that deal with the legal and practical aspects of a contract with an agent and a publisher. For about $100 investment, you may feel confident enough to save on the $5000 you might spend on editing. Acquiring the skills of a professional writer with mastery of the technicalities of his craft will give you all the confidence you need if your concern is to be a great writer. But, at the beginning of your career, if you feel that you have stories to tell in commercial genres, then The cost of developmental and copy editing would be a wise investment. Not only will your book be improved by making it more marketable (arguably) but you will learn from the process with the option of benefiting from it in the future should you choose. When it comes to publishing, you will quickly discover that it is a con game - “con“ - for confidence. Agents and publishers are gamblers Who back books that are like books that have been successful in the past, and pay high advance royalties for the right to publish them. What LaRonn’s video on development of writers doesn’t discuss is the confidence you will gain from a book you thoroughly believe in because you have considered, with a developmental editor, all the plot, structural possibilities and character development of your work. It may not be a best seller, or even repay your development costs, but it will give you the confidence to know that you have produced a decently written book of which you can be proud because it is as good as you were able to make it - even if it did cost you money for a little help on the way. It is an investment in your career and in your future. If you can afford it - it will be money well spent.

Thank you!

My pleasure!

Yes, alpha readers are great. And the confidence comes with time, the more books you publish. As long as you do your best, get good, affordable editing, and keep learning the craft, you’ll be surprised at what readers actually say. A lot of times the “fear” of readers not liking a book is unfounded, and if you follow those steps the book might be better than you think.

Thanks Zen. Glad you found it helpful b

Thank you for sharing your opinion and for being a subscriber!

Difference of opinion. If you feel that it works, then that’s your call. I just don’t know that many people who have been able to trace an actual, objective sales ROI benefit from it.

Probably cheaper to take a community college course.

I think that it might be useful. But I think it would be even more useful to join communities or do the research yourself in understanding compelling story structure and trope usage. And certainly a cost benefit analysis should be done. Paying someone thousands to tell you your book doesn't work might be less effective than getting another half dozen beta readers making suggestions for the same cost.

Glad to hear that! :)

Great thoughts, Rachel. Rustling up beta readers is definitely challenge, but if you can bring your audience along for the ride, that’s cool too.

This is an excellent point. I read about someone who blogged chapters of their book long before it actually got published: reader comments helped him to improve. I think "blog your book" has become something of a trend in recent times.

Thank you too!

:)

@@AuthorLevelUp I use a couple alpha readers willing to see first drafts for input as fans. Its another confidence building alternative. They get to comment like flash fiction, following along as I go. I figure if I satisfy their desires with the book then I am accomplishing my pact with the audience. I also use the story grid method to check my scenes and chapters that they move and resolve. If you are blessed with a super fancy or two, it's a great way to build your tribe. Just be sure to thank them.

Very cool. Yes, definitely reward them and give them other perks too. Glad this works well for you.

Thank you very much. :)

:)

That's not a bad idea. I dislike making a WIP available publicly, like on Wattpad, but there are other ways you can share with people.

@@AuthorLevelUp I think if you're putting up a first draft for some beta reads then take it down after, do your edits and don't put those on a site like Wattpad, it might work. Especially if you're small and only get , say, a dozen reads. If you blew up in followers/readers than yes - I wouldn't want to post it for free because then you're losing tons of potential sales. Even if it was draft 1 and you made substantial edits for the release, people may not pick it up. Even if you don't publically post your own story though, it might be a good place to find beta readers that work for free and story swap with them. I know I made some good connections on there even without posting more than a few short stories.

Thank you for this thoughtful post. I agree that you need to know where you “are” before you can improve. There are other ways to do this aside from hiring a developmental editor, like getting honest feedback from another writer in your genre or taking a writing course like with Dean Wesley Smith where they teach you how to figure out where you are so that you can get better.

Thank you. :)

Depends entirely on the instructor and the content.

Shop around, my man. Shop around. :) Look at the Books in your genre and you can find good references that way.

All good points. You’re definitely not getting your money back!! I do think a copy editor AND a proofreader are essential. When you give someone something and say “make it better”, it’s human nature to tear it apart. That’s a great point.

Hey Eileen. If you have a car that's not running well, do you go into a garage/mechanic and tell him to replace the engine? No, you don't. You ask him to diagnose the problem. If you trust the mechanic, you'll take his advice. When he tells you that actually it just needs a tune up, you've saved yourself thousands of dollars. It's the same process with an editor. When you go to an editor and ask them to edit your book, *you* don't tell *them* that it needs a developmental edit. They look at the manuscript and tell you what they think it needs. If the book is flawless and should be published tomorrow, then a reputable editor who is a member of a professional organization like the SfEP or EFA will tell you just that. Only a dishonest fake will try and gouge you for a fee for an edit you don't need, which is why it's extremely important to make sure any editor you contemplate giving money to is qualified, has trained, and is a member of a professional organization. There are a lot of rogues out there on sites like Fiverr and Upwork (there are genuine freelancers too, if you can find them) who will try and rip you off, just like the dodgy backstreet mechanic who's handy with the spanners but will happily try and sell you a new engine when all you've got is a puncture!

@@richardbradburn3016 I honestly don't believe an editor is going to say: Your book is ready to publish. Here's your two grand back. I'm not saying that editors are receiving perfect manuscripts and lying about it. No book is perfect. Mine are deeply flawed. :D I'm just saying... that wouldn't happen. The point you make where such and such qualified person would tell you to publish and refund the money is not (imo) ever going to happen. They've got bills too, and they scheduled you in. They would have to fill that gap after issuing your refund, which btw costs them a little extra money to do. If you pay someone to fix your book, they're gonna fix it. Whether it needs fixing or not. But you know, I'll use a copy editor as soon as I can afford it. ;) Editing is good. Just... I wouldn't pay someone to fix a book if I thought it was done enough.

Hi Eileen, Thanks for your reply. I can only assure you that I have told authors who came to me thinking they needed developmental editing that they didn't, and that the small structural tweaks I could see their book might need could be covered within the scope of a "hard" copy-edit at much lower cost. It's not about making money. It's about making books work, and if in the process I can make a living, then great. I appreciate that all editors have different working practices, but when an author comes to me looking for editing invariably the first thing I say is "Can I see the manuscript?" Without actually having a look at the book I don't know what might be wrong with it. If I don't know what's wrong with it I can't suggest a type of editing. If I'm not in a position to suggest a type of editing then I can't a) ask for a fee, or b) schedule the job, because a developmental edit takes far longer than a copy-edit or a proofread and is (therefore) considerably more expensive. So I hope you can see that the "returning the two grand" situation would never happen, just as it wouldn't in any other service. To go back to my mechanic allegory, if there's something wrong with your car, do you take it to the mechanic and write him a check for two grand without even knowing what's wrong with the car? No, of course you wouldn't. You'd wait to hear what was wrong with it, the mechanic would quote you a price to fix it, and you'd weigh up whether you thought the mechanic knew what he was talking about and whether he was quoting you a reasonable price. Your options are then to go and find another mechanic, or struggle on with the misfiring car, or possibly try to fix it yourself. All of those options are open to you with your writing: go and ask a different editor, don't have the book edited at all, or try and self-edit. It occurs to me that perhaps you have experienced a situation like this yourself. If you ever get a *firm quote* (not an estimate) from an editor who has NOT looked at your manuscript, then run a mile. I can quite categorically state that editor doesn't know what they're doing.

I came here to say all that Richard said honestly. This is not how editing works, and Eileen I don't know what back alley editors you have worked with, but you cost an edit according to what is needed. If it isn't needed, you don't charge for it. Of course, there are scammers out there, but in the actual industry with actual professionals, this is how it goes. It is also fine if an editor asks for an initial fee to assess and diagnose your work if it is really long because it is a service and you are paying for their time, but I don't see why this fee even needs to go into the 100's. Like Richard said, after they give you feedback and the cost, you decide if you want it or not. You're not paying for what you don't need. What folly is this? Who does that?

Learn as much as you can about story development and write some kind of an outline. I develop stories over a period of weeks or months and then the manuscript is easy to write and pretty good the first time.

Start with a designer in a genre you write in. That's always the best start.

I talk about it here: My Near-Death Experience ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-I4El0IjmQ2M.html

I’m specifically referring to fiction here. For nonfiction it could make sense as long as you’re doing it for the right reasons. The best example would be that you’ve never written a nonfiction book before and you need some help making sure the structure is as effective as it can be, for example.

Perhaps Jim, but I do think that whether a story works or not is subjective. I would much rather let readers be the judge of whether a story works, not an editor. But I agree that there are some decently priced editing options out there-my experience has too often been that writers overspend in this area though.

@@AuthorLevelUp right on and write on. 👍

Not really. Same advice applies honesty.

@@AuthorLevelUp Do you offer consultations for those that want to be more efficient throughout this process. I’m working with editors at the moment and ready to finally be finished 😅

Sorry-what do you mean by NDE?

Sorry, your Near-death experience.

Oh ok. :) I will do a video on it. I talk about it in my books.

Thanks. I always appreciate your feedback. This is definitely a controversial video, but I can only speak what I believe and let others draw their own conclusions based on what I lay out. If it doesn’t work for them and they don’t agree, fine, but at least they’ve heard an alternative viewpoint.

I disagree; I didn’t see it as slanted at all. He is allowed to have his opinion. He backed up his opinion with a rational list of things that supports his perspective. Then; as to not be slanted and to better serve his audience - he offered support for those who still believe a developmental edit is needed based on their own circumstances specifically he provided some rock solid referrals to ALLi and few other places where writers are much less likely to be scammed and where the developmental edit is much more likely to be of high quality and so on. Just because his opinion differs from the mainstream doesn’t mean it’s slanted. I have seen developmental editors and others who support that perspective give their reasons without ever offering an alternative cons. Some of these editors have even commented on this video in a one sided way. I completely understand why. They will lose money of people get convinced they are not always needed. Micheal is giving his honest opinion and has nothing really to gain or lose by sharing it. The other side of this story is that people who have spent thousands on developmental editing may need to feel justified in their expense so as not to be depressed about the potential waste of money. When some people call his perspective disappointing, I hear that in terms of they are disappointed in themselves for not leveraging betas instead or spending too much. But they are reflecting their own issue into him instead of proper self reflection. That group along with the developmental editors commenting here are more slanted in my opinion that Michael.

I’m sure there’s some website out there that organizes it. If not, you can start one! :)

@@AuthorLevelUp lol, as for the second I'm a bit overstretched for time as is. I'll see if I can do the first.