DF Retro Hardware: MiSTer FPGA - A Brilliant Mini Emulation System Explored! 

I'm waiting on my analog IO board to come but I am going to do various videos comparing SNES, and other consoles I have on hand right now, so GB/C/A as well

11:09 what's the game name?

@@pirateclick1d169 the one in the background? That's Windjammers on the Neo Geo.

If you still want this, the channel My Life in Gaming made exactly this, a two hour video that reviews every core (and gives other info), very well researched and high production just like Digital Foundry.

I agree with this notion. The more people know about this, the more developers join the project and the faster its goal is reached. I watched a video about the MiSTer from Game Sack years back, and this video here only advanced my knowledge about the MiSTer.

Not new stuff then huh? 😅🤷‍♂️

@@ToniArcadia new stuff is also nice... but I think retro stuff is extra special for mr. Linneman... you can see the sparkle in his eyes lol

What's the game at 11:09

I already said how awesome your Cave core was on Twitter and Patreon, but I’ll say it again fantastic work, it’s been a blast!!!

Thanks for your work! MiSTer is BeSTer.

I've owned one for over a year now and can pretty much say it is my single best retro gaming purchase. I initially bought it for the 'perfect' Amiga core, but now it is my goto for dozens of games/systems.

The Mame/Arcade rabbit hole is truly endless. Ninja Baseball Batman. Start there.

Best device ever. You wont regret it.

Its impressive how good the snes core is. And i have a super NT to compare. Not playing on crt. I dont need that experience. ;)

@@martinmoller4947 The SNES core is more accurate than the Super NT and is getting more accurate as time goes on, while Super NT, not so much.

@@jackbootshamangaming4541 possible. And i guess more devs are working on the MiSTer cores. Kevtris did still a impressive job. I put the snt back in the box. Using the MiSTer is so convenient. Hope we get save states for snes core and every core possible.

It “tastes” like the real hardware.

@@logan_cadfgs Nah, real hardware for the systems this emulates is old enough that they still used leaded solder, so real hardware would be slightly sweeter.

I wonder if fPGA will be used by the inheritors of his cheating legacy. I bet in 50 years emulation and FPGA will be basically indistinguishable

@@spyczech I'd bet there will be MiSTer FPGA cores in less than 5 years which are indistinguishable from original hardware. Apparently, some of the best FPGA implementations already in MiSTer based on delidding ICs and studying them with microscopes are so accurate that they should be able to run in parallel with real hardware for years without desynchronisation. Also, some original arcade hardware, such as the Cave CV1000 boards, are apparently natively built on FPGAs in the first place - in this particular case, even in the same family of FPGA as the DE10 used in the MiSTer itself.

@@spyczech FPGA Donkey Kong is literally EXACTLY like the real PCB. You could write the ability to use cheats into the core yourself if you know VHDL or verilog.

@@JonnyTenebrous Bruh, there's already cores that are indistinguishable from real hardware. The Neogeo core? Furrtek built it using all the chips he's decapped on a neogeo. His cores are literally 1:1 exact copies that can be put together to make a new neogeo, or you can fab some of his cores onto ASICS, and get an adapter for them to fit on a real neogeo, and they work just fine.

@@youtubesuresuckscock AHAHAHAHAHA! "Cheapo devices". Bruh, the Cylcone V on the DE-10 nano is 250-300USD alone. IT's cheaper cause it's heavily subsided for school. MAME still runs all CPS1/2 games without their wait state emulation properly. SF2 runs faster on mame than SF2 Turbo on Turbo 4 mode, which it totally shouldn't. The MAME dev team has known for over a decade and refuse to fix it. While on MiSTer? It's running exactly like it should. You don't understand that FPGAs literally become the full PCB logic that you code them too, do you?

I was originally going to get a Vampire for my A500, but after doing cost/feature comparison to the MiSTer, I went with the MiSTer as it gave me the opportunity to play some consoles and computers I didn't have on-top of a great Amiga core.

+1

I did today... Because of this video lol

.... And with this Product there is a way to buy it already Pre Loaded with games or no? I could research it but since you have one I rather get a real first hand response. Thanks in Advance 😇

@@cMARVEL360 its possible. But its really not difficult. You dont have to write code. Just use the Mr Fusion image for the micro sd card and get scripts for doing stuff like update. Update all is a very good script. You have a basic graphical interface which is really good.

This would be hit and miss. Neogeo was made with chip decaps but suffers from some graphical bugs from timing issues. Jotegos Capcom cores are good but he moves on to the next one so quickly (because patreon...) that bugs don't get fixed as quickly. Old arcade cores have nobody interested in improving them sometimes. Where mister shines today is consoles with nearly perfect SNES, NES, PCECD, Genesis cores and a great GBA core as well.

@@ghogan42 good to hear about the console accuracy. Before learning of Mister, I was considering getting an Analogue mega SG and Super NT, along with a couple everdrive flash carts for roms. Seems like that would be a complete waste of money now for someone with no intention of collecting actual cartridges.

And even getting more valueable. Cps2 and ps1 core. :) maybe Saturn. Who knows.

Neo Turf Masters is a fantastic game!

Turf Masters is such a good game. There's still people playing it online lol

Was thinking exactly the same thing!

This video sucked and showed almost nothing. Go to Smokemonsters channel for better MiSTer information

Well this is more of a talk a about John's set up

He's talking about a crappy looking "arcade" setup with a tiny screen unfortunately

@@KokoTheGorilla69 some if not most people don't have the space for a full arcade machine in there home full stop, let alone in one room. So this set up is pretty ideal!

@@KokoTheGorilla69 i think his setup is very useful bc you can easy switch to pivot mode and its very compact. Slightly bigger than a raspi but fpga power for dozens of systems. I dig it a lot. Many MiSTer owner sell their Analogue consoles.

Yeah.. he seems to be making a lot less eye contact with the camera. I still love this DF content though

😎🖐🏾

Looks like I'm late to the party :D

Outside of the input lag - What does it bring to the table, practically speaking? I have an entire emulation box setup with my CRT @15Khz, but I'd like to know what practical benefits their are by comparison other than input lag.

​@@retropulse03 accuracy, and mostly potential, maybe for very simple very old 2D systems software emulation can do the trick, but for more complex systems there is a point where software emulation is going to get too complex to get close to the real thing. Not saying that FPGA is there yet, but the potential of FPGA is massive compared to software emulation where things are pretty much hitting a dead end when it comes to accuracy. Also, for me the inputlag is the most important metric so it's definitely a huge factor of the appeal. But I'm strictly theorizing here, practically I've only tried a few software emulators for PS1/2 or SNES and found them pretty underwhelming in terms of quality, accuracy, and smoothness. But there has been some great things too, like the SNES 9x high res mode 7 and widescreen hack which are just incredible on some games. So both have their advantages I guess, but to me FPGA sounds more promising for the accuracy and responsiveness part.

@@deus_nsf You're right when it comes to PS2 emulation, it's far from perfect and for many games the performance and accuracy is hit and miss. Then again, PS2 FPGA isn't even a thing at all... But when it comes to those consoles which are available on FPGA like NES, SNES, Genesis, Game Boy etc. there are amazing emulators out there with cycle-accuracy. So I'm not sure what underwhelming experience you're speaking of when it comes to SNES or even PS1. For PS1 (which doesn't exist as FPGA yet) there is Mednafen/Beetle-PSX which is the most accurate PS1 emulator out there and runs pretty much every game you throw at it with high accuracy. If you use the Retroarch frontend, it supports Run-Ahead for many cores so input latency becomes a non-issue. I think the problem is that people who had a bad experience with software emulation often fall into one of these categories: 1. They're trying bad or outdated emulators 3. They don't take the time to research and set everything up properly 3. They use hardware that is either weak or not suited for accurate emulation like ARM devices, Raspberry Pi's, NES/SNES minis, hacked consoles, their phones and tablets, or simply old PCs. Obviously they'll have a subpar experience then. But if you actually run the most accurate emulators on a beefy PC connected to a TV with original controllers through adapters, you can have a near-perfect original console experience for most systems up to the PS1 era and it's in no way worse than using something like a MISTer. In addition, you get tons of features on top like shaders if you want to recreate the CRT look on a modern screen if you're into that kind of stuff (something which requires a half-decent GPU, btw). Please note that I'm talking solely about consoles up to the 5th gen. I don't have any experience with Arcade systems and this might indeed be an area where the MISTer shines compared to software emulation.

You can find plenty. I have compared SNES to the SNES core, and found no differences at all in various demos and such. Even Demos that use stuff that very great emulators will mess up, it does fine.

@@jackbootshamangaming4541 With SNES it is tricky because there are multiple hardware versions that behave differently in different situations. Partway through production they consolidated several chips, so the revision is commonly called 1chip. That revision isn't perfectly accurate and has visual glitches in a few places, but its video signal is cleaner.

@@coopercummings8370 we'll see we get the best of both worlds on MiSTer. Our video output is much cleaner than any SNES is, including RGB modded 1chips, yet it's based on a 2/1/3 SNES(the most common 3 chip, I have several SFCs and they're all 2/1/3s. I had a 1 chip, and some other models that were different from 2/1/3, before losing all my stuff and having to restart my collection) The MiSTer output is cleaner than my completely recapped with very high end 1% tolerance caps and resistors, with an RGB amp, 1chip, both at native 240p, and when the OSSC is used on the SNES I get better image out of the MiSTer still. We just got the 5x scaling mode added for 1080p(crops 8 pixels, 4 on top and 4 on bottom but you can offset it, and most games back then still considered those areas as potential overscan as many CRTs would overscan those, and do they're generally fit with useless info). Like I was playing Streets of Rage 2 last night and with a +4 offset, it shows the name and timing all perfectly, just cuts off the pixels above the characters names and such which are useless and only 8 original pixels. The scaler in the MiSTer is amazing too. The OSSC pro is getting an addon board for the DE-10 nano that will do all the same things as the OSSC pro as it's going to be based on a very similar Cyclone V chip, but this way it's much cheaper as you're supplying the FPGA yourself, the addon board is going to be 200 if I recall correctly, the OSSC pro is going to be 500+...

What's that game at 11:09

Get a MiSTer. Thank me later. :D

@@martinmoller4947 I mean, I think they're super cool and would make a really neat "project," but I can't really be spending too much money the next few months and I already have an AVS, a Mega SG, and a Super NT for my light FPGA needs. I'll thank you like... _way_ later when I eventually get one, lol.

@@chinohormann have a super NT too. Hardly used after getting the MiSTer. You also get neo geo, tg16, gba in fpga quality. And cps 1,1.5, 2 arcade cores. Just to name a few. Its convenient to use. But you are having already a nice fpga setup.

@@chinohormann I already sold my Mega SG and it pretty much paid off my entire MiSTer. Will sell my Super NT next for probably $400-450, then get rid of a lot of my games. If you are using the Analogue systems primarily with the jailbreak or flash carts, a MiSTer is better in every way.

@@KokoTheGorilla69 i keep my super NT bc i like to have this piece of hw.

8bitdo and Hori make such incredible controllers. It's insane.

Could you clarify/go into more detail why its "one of the best" purchases you have made please? I'm truly trying to understand your mindset. I honestly don't mean any offence, I'm very confused about the whole HW collecting thing. Why do you like it, what is it about the HW & collecting that brings you happiness ect.

@@5izzy557 For me it's the accuracy, you really cant tell that you are not on original hardware. It also does plenty of Computer systems, so the value for money is astounding.

@@ZaPpaul Value, and accuracy. How well do you know these games man are you a top speed runner in them if not then how do you know what is and isn't accurate without the fact you have bought an expensive piece of equipment that says its accurate emulation. I would love to put something purposely inaccurate in & I imagine the only people that would realize is people that have to because they do it for a living then the internet can tell everybody else. It's usually a minor sound or something, why does this matter to you? it's still the exact same game yes there are a few cases where said game is broken, but they are few and far between is it an elitist attitude? i honestly just don't get it, Also too your point, so does good emulation... Unless you're in the top 1% of gamers there is no way most people can tell the difference. Sure you'll believe you can, but if you hadn't tested it, and I put two side by side they would be so close you would question your answer.

@@5izzy557For the admission price, you get a small form factor, multi-system emulator that runs pretty much exactly like the games in original hardware, with extremely low input lag thanks to LLAPI or Snac, and has very low power requirements, and that is still being developed. It's cheaper than putting HDMI mods and whatnot on your pre-existent consoles and completely preserves the feeling you had playing those games back then, without messing up timings or anything like what, say, the retropie etc alternatives do. If this is inconceivable to you, then I suppose you will never understand. The debate of emulation vs original hardware is ages old and unsettled, as it ultimately relies on personal priorities and expectations.

Actually one of the worst videos I've seen about it. He didn't show off or discuss any of the other cores, and didn't really show off any of the UI or menus.

This is the way!

the de10 used to cost 130. now i see it going from 140-150.00

@@soloM81 I had to pay scalper prices for mine. After "shipping and handling" I ended paying $188

Maybe if you are one of those people who pays someone else to put it together. You can buy the parts individually for cheaper and do it yourself any time. There are several different sources for the components.

Buy the parts from an electronics shop and not a "Mister" shop. They are in stock at mouser for $136.

@@poodudeelite I saw them on the mouser shop and also saw they weren't rated by the better business bureau. Not sure if that means anything anymore, but I didn't feel comfortable

@b m He doesn't hate arcades. They're just not something he is very into himself. Without him, the Arcade Cores wouldn't be here even really.

If someone is not throwing him some coin on Patreon or contributing to the project in some way then that's the shame.

giving him credits is a way to contribute

@@Naytai-mh1pl Kinda hard to buy a cup of coffee or food or gas or pay the electricity or buy equipment with "credit on RU-vid". Anybody that owns a MiSTer can afford to spend $1.00 a month to support him. If you're using Jotego's stuff then $1.00 to him means for $2.00 a month you're getting a whole heck of a return on your investment.

@@murrij Totally agree. But the question here is not just the financial support, which is great, obviously. More than that, giving credits to someones work is a matter of respect, especially when you can monetize over it. This is priceless.

It would be nice if they did, For now we have this video about John's setup

Yeah we are still waiting for that video

Just the first 3 and UMK3 for me, thanks!

@@rooskiwolf1653 Still the best MK games. MKX and MK 11 just weren't it for me.

😂

Its more accurate and without lag. Good decision. There are 324 arcade games/cores on it at the moment.

Rotate..... Enhance.....

There is one reason: original cartridges. Apart from that, they are pretty comparable.

@@Trunchisholm Or find a good software emulator. Right? Some emulators are really accurate (and 100% open-source).

@@PhilippeMorin123 Good luck finding and setting up emulators for all the platforms supported by MiSTer that are cycle-accurate, have 0-lag and don't require a high-end PC to run at full speed.

@@Trunchisholm You're right...the original cartridges. However, the Mister has analog CRT output for monitors/TVs available, and better digital output with native refresh (something to do with variable pixel clock or something).

@@Trunchisholm seems like the platform is for arcade gaming anyway. I'm more a home console gamer.

Agreed. For example: Genesis games like Shinobi and Sonic sound better on MiSTer then on any other emulator.