Hey! If you liked the video, please give it a thumbs up and Subscribe! Also.. it looks like it's time to start planning a new comparison video… Let me know what you’d like to see compared to this DF84V!
Option O Lagom 01, P64, Zerno Z1, Timore 64S, and people would probably be interested in the DF 64v2 as well :) I will definitely be looking forward to this video.
Happy new year Kyle! In addition to the grinders already mentioned it might be interesting to add the Sculptor 78S as well; similar price (non-KS) and burr size
I'm a P64 owner, and I love their grinders overall, but I can see that more and more potential P64 buyers will move to DF grinders or other brands. This is the first time I've had a good impression from a DF grinder, and by the time they release the DF83V v2 or something (assuming they've fixed its minor flaws), it will be challenging for Option-O to remain competitive since the P64 is very overpriced. It's becoming harder and harder for buyers to justify the price tag.
@user-ev3ex7ey6g someone has to do it first at a high price, it's simply how the market functions. Now that the unknowns are knowns, Lagom will be able to release a more competitively priced option like the rest of the market, or they will use their time to further innovate and create another highly priced option that people will buy.
I own a P64 as well. I think the lack of an auger is a major downside to it. The consistency seems so dependent on the feed rate. I’m really considering an auger fed grinder to help with consistency.
for burrs....DO NOT take ANYTHING anyone says in slight differences in flavor. If you want to know, try them yourself, and allow your own bias to weigh in and make that subjective and immeasurable difference effect your pocket. All these reviews with such nuance differences in flavor for shots made are BS at best, and deceptive at worst. So many factors that sway the mind, its just not that measurable when the quality of both are so high.
Just started using this one. If you do get on, you have to de-burr the burr carrier. All of it. The sharp parts seem to not allow it to float smoothly. I think it's related to some that have shot to shot inconsistentencies. Other than that, it seems pretty good. I've only done a few shots so far. VERY QUIET compared to my sette
Any updates on a 078s comparison? Deciding whether I wanna put in my pre-order for this or go with a 078s, I'm an espresso drinker (usually light-medium roasts) with a Niche Zero.
@@KyleRowsell would you say to hold off on pre-order for now? I'm just worried I'll lose the pre-order discount but I know they say you lose 3% if you cancel the pre-order.
I think we need to take a deeper look at grinder industry. How can you put a grinder out, an 83mm burr grinder at that, that constantly fail safes when you try to do what its intended for? Then charge a premium for it?? Then a month later bring out v2 which fixes the ugly as sin switches and readout. Then a few month later v3, which swaps a plastic part for an ali one. Then a few month later..... You get my point. All the RnD is surely in the burr itself? So what on earth warrants this price tag apart from greed?
I hear what you’re saying. But also, you may be leaning to hard into what I stated. It’s not an issue unless you’re brewing the densest of coffees and have to cold start, otherwise the majority will never face this issue. But again, I hear you.
@@KyleRowsell Thankyou for the reply. I appreciate that it may only be the lightest of roasts but looking at the way the whole industry is leaning, id say more people are buying and being able to access lighter roasts. So therefore a modern machine in the modern coffee industry should be able to cold start a light roast. For the price you pay I expect it to work correctly. I just think we as consumers consistently get screwed over! My lelit Fred pl03mmi has a 38mm conical burr, never skipped a beat and I've put some silly experimental coffees through it all for espresso always on a cold start. However, I am looking to upgrade to an endgame espresso grinder, I just don't think the market or competition to establish a reasonable price point is there yet.
@@carpNcoffee again I agree, but many who will be buying this light of a roast won’t be buying the stock espresso burrs… the only burr set that showed this problem for me!
@@carpNcoffee same. a decade old super jolly, 64mm flat burrs, has NEVER not gone through the lightest of roasts. This df83 thing has a 600w+ motor, agree the fail safe trigger is a design flaw, especially at this price.
This is relatively a bargain when the competition starts at $2000 for a lot of end game grinders. Maybe not for me but I love it when they keep lowering the barrier to entry. Much needed in this industry
It might be a good grinder but the design seriously needs a V2 ASAP. Those buttons are hideous and worst of all: they're EVERYWHERE. Not a fan of that bellows either... Otherwise I think that the rest looks very nice, especially the design for the catch cup resp below the catch cup.
Very detailed and interesting review as always thanks for that video ❤ Any review or comparison with the WPM ZP-1 grinder please ? I’m looking for that 😊
Started a month ago on a sage express. Now waiting to be able to order the black df83v with standard espresso burrs 😅. I think the sage will not stay in my house for very long. Already got my eye 👁️ on the ecm synchronika 😊
Thanks for reviewing. How does it compare to the Zeno (one of the hyped end-game grinders that has some similarities to this one)? Does the Zero "worth" the huge price difference?
I still don't get it how your channel does not haver 1 million followers, this is clearly a bug on youtube. Look this production! :) Cheers mate, enjoy 2024!
Great great great video! I will buy one with the HU espresso burss. Can you tell me how much coffe should I use for seasining the burrs? Should I do 5kg ? or less to have consistent shots?
Hey Kyle. Great video - loving the channel generally. Do you think the 83v is significantly better performing than the 64gen2 with DLC burrs and/or SSP (various)? Thanks!
Hey man ! Great video! Could I do nice expressos with the multipurpose red ssp burrset? I want to do filter coffee also, but just wanted to know if I could do very nice expresso shots also with the multipurpose :) Thanks!
Great video, how do you align the burrs with this one? The DF83 I could just tighten it up and then turn the bolt in the middle, how do you do the marker test (turn the burrs once you have it marked up) with this one?
If I was slowly pouring beans into the chamber, I'd constantly think... "JUST GIMME MY F'KIN GROUNDS!". I'll stick with the DF83, but I do quite like the idea of the DLC espresso burrs.
I got a sculptor 78s after you reviewed it and unfortunately i got a unit that has major alignment issues (every marker test produces different patterns after 5 days of tests). And i found out I am not the only one with this specific problem. I am seriously thinking about getting rid of it and getting a df83v.
Timemore 078 looks to be the better grinder for the workflow. The price jump between 64mm and 83mm ssp burrs is pretty big so its good to see good options from the factory.
Great review, Ive been waiting for this one. Can you please elaborate bit more about the SSP MP? You compared them against the brew burrs but what about a modern espresso? how good they are?
@@KyleRowsell Thanks, I think that was the third time I've watched that comparison, you mentioned that you want to see an 83mm Zerno, which I can imagine that the DF83V could be similar to as it has a kind of a pre-breaker. in addition, the SSP MP is referred mostly to as a brew burr in that comparison, I really like to hear about the espresso capabilities of the MP for those who looking for more clarity rather than body/sweetness
DF grinders have come a long way. Variable speed, single dosing, low retention, plasma generator, big burrs/motors, and ease of cleaning. High end grinder companies need to step up their game, otherwise it's a matter of time.
Hey Kyle! Im trying to decide between a DF 83v, Zerno Z1, Option -0 P64 and Option -O Lagom 01. Any advice? I know many of those grinders are coming in at different price points but I have a hard time understanding how the cup quality would differ for these grinders or what I should expect. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
That’s a wide budget! The 01 is 3 times the price. How would you be using it? Context is important, and I’ll be following up this video with a deeper comparison
@KyleRowsell I would be wanting to make both espresso and pour over coffee. I like the idea of being able to try out lots of different types of coffee probably between the light to medium range. At the moment I really like the idea of sweet fruit forward coffees that minimize bitterness. I would love to be able to consistently make Blueberry bombs and other sweet fruity coffee drinks :) If this matters, I also have a Meticulous and Meticulous Milk machine that I have ordered. I can afford to pay for the Lagom 01 if it will make better cups of coffee but am not sure if the quality keeps going up or not.
@@nomadicsouls3290 preach it brother. Sold off my df83 , put my timempre sculptor 64s up fpr sale. Having happy results with my 1zpresso k.ultra handgrimder and a used baratza sette for easier espresso life. No need for anyone to fall for marketing tactics to have a sci-fi shiny object on the kitchen counter
Hi Kyle. Specialty coffee puts some emphasis on farmer treatment and profit sharing. how do you see the Chinese made grinders as compared to European made ones and the working wage differences there? Is it sending a mixed message? Will it force the established European brands to become more competitive?
That might be a budget option for someone rich enough to invest that kind of money. To an average wage earner raising a family and paying a mortgage that will not even be an option. For this reason the title needs an update, unless the purpose of the title is to generate clicks.
@@KyleRowsell obviously used “budget” to increase clicks-bad form. Ditto accepting free equipment for reviews. Unless you pass on equipment to one of your subscribers, your review is tainted. Will be blocking your channel.
Grinders are great but that ugly ass power button is bad enough to be a deal breaker unfortunately, wtf were they thinking! All of those 3 could've been done with just a single button/dial that actually looks good on it.
That power switch is such a bizarre choice. I've never seen one like it and it's just awful. It looks like some seriously janky crap, not to mention a huge PITA to clean those folds.
For $800 and such a nice design otherwise you’d think they could figure the gearing to get enough torque. Sure, a lower RPM but that seems a reasonable trade off.
I think everyone was so confused at first why it's tilted backwards :D I think there's benefit even with auger fed / pre-breaker coffee grinders to slow feed the coffee into the burrs (if you want more clarity and less fines). I experimented with the Zerno Z1 and it's a huge difference with dumping coffee in and starting vs slower feeding as it runs. Try it yourself, what I'm wondering is whether or not the feed rate has more or less of an effect than variable RPM does. I suspect it might, because with some burrs I barely notice a difference with RPM changes. DF83V Motor is nice and quiet but it does seem like actual grinding gets loud, like the original DF83, but it's FAST so not too bad. One grinder I thought was weird because I think the MOTOR was actually louder than the grinding was the Weber Key. It could have been such a nice quiet grinder especially at lower RPM if they just would have made the motor or gear box shutup! Speaking of having a polished grinder, I thought the Eureka Oro Single Dose grinder would be like a perfect DF64 but (especially the first version) it seemed more untested than some of the earlier DF64s, like on BOTH my original and updated 1.1v of the Oro SD neither actually worked with their included bellows. There was only a tiny bit of retention but for some reason it still blocked the flow and their weak bellows/ poorly sealed grind chamber didn't allow the bellows to push air and retention out through the grind path. I recommend that grinder but just pretend it never came with a bellows :D You can get it to work, but requires a good beating, and that's not very good workflow. The Option-O P64 I think is THE grinder to get if you want a polished no nonsense grinder. Zerno Z1 is getting there too. I don't think DF/Turin people are making their own burrs, from what I hear you need very particular and expensive tools to be able to make burrs, so there's only a few companies that actually make them, and they usually end up rebranded by other companies. I think Joe from Espresso outlet / Turin brand may have helped with the design and ultimately approved the burrs once it was found to meet their standards. It's nice to have some good more affordable burr options because once you go above 64mm those SSP burrs get pretty pricey!
@@wsrobert32 Sure. It has some unique and neat features like it can be a Grind by weight grinder and you can do burr alignment through screws on the back of the burr carrier instead of messing with shims. That would be awesome if it works. Rpm profiling is a whole new rabbit hole too. I think there were a few not so impressive first impressions and I hadn't heard much else about it. Not sure how many are out in the wild yet. They really need to get more out there and get some reviews because I don't think many people actually know about it.
Thanks for covering this grinder so thoroughly! I was in the market for a 83mm flat burr grinder as an upgrade to my Niche Zero for mostly espresso but I do have a v60 as well. I jumped on the preorder when it opened up and included the SSP Espresso burrs in it before the reviews starting coming in. I wonder if they will make a change to that power button before production since it seems to be the most heavily criticized.
i’m ngl at $800 it shouldn’t be stalling…like at all. reviewers need to stop cutting turin slack for selling grinders that can’t grind at all available rpm ranges. what’s the point in letting it go to 300rpm if it can’t consistently grind at that speed
Likely a torque safety limit so you don't damage the motor if you get a stone or something in the coffee (hopefully saves the burrs too). *Update: Ah yeah good, Kyle actually covered that in the video. I saw another review saying that that happened at like the lowest RPM (what was it 300?) but a few notches up at like 500 and it never happened.
@@KyleRowsell Thank you Kyle, your suggestion is very important to help me make a decision, cause I like acidic coffee, but I also like texture and complexity
For $800 I shouldn’t have to work around the limitations of the product. If simply means they’ve used a cheap low torque motor which is insufficient for the purpose. My mignon specialita is 5 years old, and it hasn’t stalled even once, let alone stopped, no matter what I put through it, and it’s half the price!
I would be curious to know how big the wire port for the power button is. It might not be too hard to replace the accordion with an esthetically pleasing switch. Great review, Kyle! I can't wait to see the new DF face off against some of your other higher end grinders!
Why do you say at 6:49 with the auger "no popcorning is possible" and then exactly 5 seconds later the video shows a bean shooting back up straight at the camera?
No pop-corning in the feeding of the burrs. This is the feed of the auger. Different when it comes to how it effects distribution of grounds, also this would always have its hoper with anti-pop-corning disk installed to remove any pop-corning
