Thanks for that. I'm an engineer and a client is looking to use these on a deck. I've read the IRC report but it's really good to see a video of how they're used in the field.
Legal to use may still fail. Have you looked at Pin Foundations disclaimers and warranties? If the deck fails and the frost heaves and tears it off the ledger board and damages the house All pin Foundations will do for you is replace the diamond piers that didn't work. Don't be stupid . Build with a real footing and pier.
@@williardbillmore5713 I've seen many cement tube anchors pop right out of the ground in wet clay. Anyways.... I didn't use them on an attached deck... I've used them on a 12x16, 15' tall gambrel shed. Worked great.
Interesting, a little high on price, so for now since I have the tractor with the post hole digger, rebar, and concrete, I will stay with that, but I can see where a remodel job, these would be great, where, someone could not bring in the tractor. The U.S. used to be mass production, but hey, if you selling out at those prices more power to you, that is after all the American dream. congrats on a great idea. Great Show.
i have been looking at these as a base for a mini pavilion project that i am trying to plan for my campground. pouring concrete is not allowed for most projects, at most campgrounds, so these seem to be the way to go.
Even if they do go to the frost line , it is meaningless. The surface will heave and take the surface pier and your structure with it. In their warranty they do no claim that these things will do anything that a surface pier doesn't do too . Buyer beware.
@@notahotshot No, that would be the oily salesmen trying to explain how something that is impossible works....Frozen ground expands an lifts up and anything above that frost line will lift up with it. It has to. It is simple physics. All earth holds water. When the ground freezes the water it holds freezes and expands upward carrying everything within it including pipes driven at an angle and concrete piers sitting a couple if inches into it surface. The magic this company is trying to sell to their inexperienced customers is that somehow the diamond shaped pier will magically split the ground it sits on because it is held down by pipes in the same ground that is lifting. It is like saying that a boat will stay anchored in place if it is tied to an anchor made from water... It is a ridiculous notion that anyone can see is impossible. The pipes, the surface piers and any structure on them will lift with the earth as it expands under deep frost conditions. Expanding frozen ground can not "go around'' a pipe in the ground....It will lift it.
What about water ingress on the pipes themselves, lets say you get a flashfood and water rises above the pier will those little rubber booties stop water from going inside the galvanized pipe? Wont that compromise the pipe and the entire pier? Just thinking outloud here...
I'm just discovering these and I really like what I see. Of course, I'm down in south Texas and will be using them to build on my property in Alaska, so I don't have a ready source to check things out. I have reached out to Diamond Pier via email for more information. It's been a year since you made that video, what are your thoughts on it now?
They will work well in south Texas but so will any surface pier...Anywhere frost lifts the surface seasonally you need to dig or bore down deep if you don't want it to move.
Still don’t understand how the pipes in the dirt going support the concrete foot and weight is pushing on it .. the whole thing with the pipe and footer will sink all together into dirt or am I missing something ??
Buy a sono tube and a shovel. If you hit ledge it makes a good footing you can pour concrete right onto the ledge. These things have no footing, they just have crossed pipes in the topsoil.
I don’t understand how this is code. You are driving a 52” pole at 45 degrees into the ground (this angle is in the patent for Diamond Pier). That means the post is terminating only 36” below grade.
I would assume it's because of how much ground gets "locked" up with the pins. They go every which way and prevents the pier from rising up with the freeze. Whereas concrete has to go lower than the frost line to prevent the rising. I know in my area they were passed by the state as acceptable. Haven't had a call back yet on the multiple jobs weve used them.
Even if you use pipes that go below the frost line there is nothing in a diamond pier that will keep it from rising and subsiding with the frost season. Without a footing there is nothing for the load to bear on but the surface piers and the rising ground under them. Anyone who has dealt with frost heaving ground knows it will easily bend underground pipe or even break them when conditions are right, if they are not buried deep enough for the zone.
Here is a copy of Pin Foundations disclaimers and warranty; --- Pin Foundations, Inc., is not responsible for performance failure if: (1) The Diamond Pier product has not been installed according to the current full published Diamond Pier Installation Manual, or not installed in Normal Soil Conditions, or not used in compliance with PFI’s published requirements or stated capacities. (2) The cause of failure is due to related parts not supplied by PFI (PFI supplies the Diamond Pier concrete head with embedded anchor bolt, steel bearing pins, inspection plugs, and caps). (3) The cause is due to poor or unsound soils or to special conditions that require additional measures above and beyond those typically or prescriptively required in the local code jurisdiction. Such conditions may include but are not limited to soil bearing strengths below 1500 psf, hydric soils, unconsolidated or uncompacted soils, fill soils, aggressive or contaminated soils, peats, highly expansive soils, severe frost susceptible soils, soils not properly drained, structures with asymmetric, rotational, overturning, or dynamic loads, sites with steep slopes or sliding or shifting soils, sites with historic evidence of conventional foundation failure, or sites in frost zones exceeding those published per specific pier application. (4) The cause of failure is due to an action beyond PFI’s control, such as a tornado, hurricane, flood, landslide, earthquake, etc. This warranty applies only to Diamond Pier products that have not been misused or damaged, intentionally or unintentionally. This warranty does not cover cosmetic issues, such as weathering, staining, pitting, or chipping, or general maintenance issues, such as adjusting the pins or resetting the pin caps. Nor does it cover products that have been mishandled during installation, or discontinued or are outdated. PFI shall not be liable for any incidental, consequential, special loss, or other damages, including injury to persons or property, however caused. No other warranties are express or implied. --- Hydric soils, also known as wet soils, are soils that have been saturated by water for one or more weeks during the growing season. So if you have snow melt or rain for more than one week of the year on the soil that you placed your Diamond pier they will not cover anything. "highly expansive soils" are soils that contain any water that may freeze and expand. In other words they are not responsible for any application of their product that causes damage. They exempt pretty much all soil conditions that could possibly exist and the only thing they MAY do, if pressed, is replace the product. Don't be stupid. This warranty is worthless .
obviously its a good idea to get the water away from any pier solution using drainage/swails etc. Also 1 inch of blue board is 12" of dirt. So 2" of blueboard would help significantly in eliminating frost problems. My father in law worked at Cold Regions Research for Army corps of engineers. He had a water line that wen t over ledge....covered it with blue board....never froze in Vermont. He was an expert in Permafrost and more than one beer was consumed in the discussion about blue board performance. So if the conditions are right, go with the blue board in Cold states. 2 factors, water, soil temperature. Eliminate either one then its OK. Eliminate both for best performance.
Depending on the model the diamond pier is ~$150-200 ea. Regular concrete/tube system is cheaper. The savings with diamond pier is significantly less labor to install. Also you don't have to wait for an inspection of the hole, then wait for the concrete to dry. You can build on them immediately. If you are paying for labor then diamond pier will be cheaper.
It depends. If you are building a deck and you use these things with a ledger board the damage done to your home will cost more than you can imagine when the frost lifts the deck up. If you are using them under a freestanding structure these surface piers will just rise and subside with the frost season, but they won't necessarily stay level..
They are surface piers. If the moisture in the ground freezes beneath them and rises, there is no way they will not lift up. Frost heaves can easily bend pipe.or lift a whole house . Do not get Duped into calling these pipes "footings" they do not come close to fitting the definition of a construction footing.
Why would you say that they are not a replacement for concrete? huh? They absolutely are a replacement for concrete. They actually are better than concrete because they don't move up or down during freezing.
It was more of a situational comment. Piers cant replace concrete in every situation. They are most certainly a replacement for concrete in the correct situation tho.
They absolutely do move up and down with freezing ,expanding soils. These things are surface piers. Do not use them anywhere that you wouldn't use a surface pier...a concrete block will be a lot less expensive and will perform about the same. Don't be stupid and believe that the laws of physics do not apply just because some slick sales pitch tells you that they don't. Read their warranty and put yourself in the place of someone trying to collect on it. It is worthless to try.
@@austinmiller5516 I have, extensively. Anything that can be pressed on underneath and lifted by solid frost soils will heave. That is why Sonotubes for example do not have a larger surface area above a smaller surface area. This gives the expansive soil a chance to "slide" up the footing because there is nothing there to lift. As an engineer, I can see how these systems will aid in reducing settlement, but certainly not heave, especially here in Minnesota. Are you expecting us to believe that the earth rises around the block and the block does not rise with it? Where do you expect the compressed earth underneath the block to go?
