Did Edward Jellico Do Anything Wrong? 

Personally, I think he was more of a tin-man

Data probably weighed the situational needs against the potential issues of someone else being brought in. I feel he was too much of a lackey to Jellico, but data personally saw what Riker's, frankly reasonable, objections and observations got. He probably viewed it as being able to do the most good for those under him if he be the interface layer. After all. He has no feelings to hurt, and if he can shield others from Jelico's frankly unhinged bluster? THen it is the logical course of action.

@@GeekatHome Nope! Tin Man was a space faring entity.

Terry Matalas' Data 2.0 from Pic S3 probably would have clashed with Jellico, and had difficulty falling in line with him.

Logical, the rules are to obey which he does take literally, but if the yes meant conflicting with an ethical situation, he would have said no to protect lives.

agree. Why was Picard; a diplomat and archeologist and explorer... Sent on effectivly a grenade throwing mission?

Pretty much. Sure Picard may be an expert on metagenic weapons, but does he really need to be an expert to eliminate them in a mission?

To be fair that has always been a problem with Star Trek, especially in TOS.

You have to suspend disbelief in order to make most plots work.

Truth!

I always find these rash comments about Sisko’s supposedly aggressiveness to be stereotypical. He was perhaps the most family oriented Captain we’ve seen, even more so than Pike, but he always get painted as this really aggressive war monger all because of “In the Pale Moonlight.” He also did warn the planet about destroying the atmosphere and he threw Eddington in the brig and sent him to prison!

Sisko will beam you into the fucking wormhole.

@@CaptainKwame1773 Sisko had better enemy character arcs (DuKat, Weyoun, Winn, changeling Martok and Bashir) and also a more sinister Federation (Section 31 being willing to counter-genocide the Changelings with a virus to save the Alpha quadrant). Picard’s less-personable adversaries (Nine Q episodes, six Borg episodes) didn’t force him to be treacherous in a noble, realpolitik way.

@@tayzonday I see what you're saying, but Sisko is not throwing anyone out of an airlock because they've gotten on his bad side. He would have done that to so many people on DS9; he was clearly a Captain much in like with the kind of Captain Jellico is--my command, my choice. I think nothing more. There are way more Captains we can use here for this aggressive comparison: Lorca, Ransom, O'Brien's former CO, etc. Sisko is not Section 31, and there you can find more sinister Captains/operatives to be fearful of.

Well after all he DID punch an OMNIPOTENT BEING in the nose lol.

Livingston was a direct intercom to the cetaceans in navigation Incase the normal IC failed. You didn't think he was confined to the ready room, did you?🤔😆

Same thing with Troi's uniform, I heard. Marina Sirtis wanted to wear a standard uniform, so they had the change occur in this episode, and just stuck with it.

I did not know what the name of the fish was until now. Was the fish in the ready room when Data and Riker crash landed the ship?

@@oddish4352 I read that "The Great Bird of the Galaxy" wanted Troi to have three "fun bags" until D.C. Fontana talked him out of it.

@@sartainja I heard it was four.

Exactly David

Reprimand the writers. The situation was too contrived to be believable.

I disagree. Jellico might have been realistic but the Enterprise isn't a military vessel. Star Trek created this issue by having the Enterprise alternatively be, and not be, a military vessel depending on what the plot demanded. But ultimately with families on board...its not a military vessel.

@@35mm21 Yeah, I had this argument with Rick Berman at a convention back in the 90s. I asked why no enlisted were on the Enterprise but I don't buy that crap. Starfleet is and always was based on the Navy in its structure. Incidentally the next season Miles O'Brien was made a Chief Petty Officer right before going to DS9 and since then Trek had enlisted men...but then again so did TOS. That said, it's just a TV Show.

As a Marine veteran, totally agree. Jellicoe charging in like a bull in a China shop making changes just to shake everything up and show he's in charge is absolutely 100% accurate. HOWEVER - as an officer, I question the wisdom of blowing up the ship's duty rosters and disrupting the well-oiled machine, removing key officers from the chain of command just as he's about to take the ship into harm's way.

@@davidradich9342 I always wondered about the lack of enlisted personnel aboard the Enterprise D as well. I just assumed they were among the thousands of personnel we heard about but never see.

@@MrJeffcoley1 Which actually makes it more realistic, because that is the type of shit that happens during changes of command that I have seen. Officers can be head strong and they do that kind of thing from time to time. Writer of episode Ronald D Moore was a vet.

You do have to remember that Enterprise was a discovery and even leisure vessel though. Families lived aboard that star ship. The Enterprise crew adapted too, but in the process Jellico faced significant friction from his crew, so much so that, if a difficult situation would have arose, I wouldn't have been surprised of mutinies could have appeared.

Amen brother

thank you for your service

​@@DanCojocaru2000 Stop the nonsense. Starfleet was the military of the federation

do you accept commanders going into combat without briefing their XO of their intent and downgrading the combat efficiency of the outfit?

Absolutely

Yeah, doesn’t everyone work fewer hours in a normal week??

My thoughts exactly. A well rested crew is what you need in case the shit hits the fan.

4 shift rotation would be great but Riker did say there was the issue of man power. If man power is too thin for it then its not always a good idea to make it so.

Implemented a more crew intensive rotation while stripping 1/3 of engineering staff and sending them to security. Of course there were huge problems.

You're not wrong....after Stargate I was unable to like his characters in anything, I utterly HATED him in Sg1...but if i take myself out of that, i found his command style to rigid, he was rude, didn't care about his crew other than if they did their jobs to HIS specifications or not...he isnt a leader, he's a CEO.

Yeah the first time i saw Jellico i blurted out hey it's the a**hole. cause everything i had seen him in before then he played a greedy power hungry villain character.

His appearance in Stargate would not come until eight years after this episode!

Anybody else seen him in Beverly Hills Cop?

i didn't know the actor so it's not the case for me.

I agree. In fact, on Voyager, Captain Janeway mentioned in one of her logs that Starfleet taught her to have distance between a Captain and crew. And how she was comfortable with that distance until the circumstances Voyager was now in. I think Starfleet Captains are more like Jericho rather than Picard.

a captain who was a danger to mission and crew

@@thodan467 what danger? forcing them to go through combat drills so the captain could see how they react in a chaotic situation? All Riker had to do was follow his orders and report his complaints through the proper starfleet channels. Instead he threw a tantrum and sat in his room.

@@DrinkyMcBeer Worst did not inform his XO, about the mission and his plans then did not inform his command team of his modus operandi and intent. Then weakens the engineer team, the most important part of the crew in case of combat. Then disrupts the sleep pattern and risks going into danger with an overtired team. Riker had no duty to sacrifice his honor, his reputation and duty to his comrades for Jellico Or in good old prussian The soldier king An officer has to follow his orders except they go against his honor or in good new prussian the king made you a staff officer, that you know when not to follow orders a prussian prince and Fieldmarshall

@@thodan467 Jellico had no control over how Picard ran the ship prior to him taking command. He saw that it had been run like a luxury cruise liner and needed to get them into combat readiness in the time he had available. The crew of the flagship of the fleet should be capable of sucking it up and doing what needs to be done. He asked engineering to make adjustments in case the ship saw major combat. He ordered Riker to make crew adjustments day one to give the crew the maximum time to adjust. He wasn't able to just blab about the secret covert mission. Every member of thar crew could have filed official complaints and dealt with the problems the proper way, only one threw a hissy fit. I have no clue what you are going on about with regards to prussians, so I'll just ignore all that nonsense.

@@Mrtee-ml8zf Wartime Picard was interesting in “Yesterday’s Enterprise.” I have a feeling Jellico would not have listened to the advice of an El-Aurian friend and would have condemned the Federation to Klingon plunder/citizenship.

Maybe, but it's still a terrible idea to overhaul your ship's chain of command at a critical moment.

Jellico was an criminal irresponsible wartime captain

@@Transilvanian90 sometimes you don't have the luxury of an adjustment period.

@@kdryan21 No, but sending the current CO on a spec ops mission and replacing him with another is a luxury.

What military ship has wives civilians and children aboard? I was born and raised on army married quarters but unless something had gone absolutely pear shaped that didn't become a front line situation. Jellico's big mistake in my view was that he had the time to get to know the crew but didn't bother, and he reprimanded senior officers in front of their subordinates instead of taking them aside as Data did to Worf in "Gambit" part 2.

Weren't they nerds doing research or something like that? Regardless Jellico did nothing wrong, came up on top, saved the day and looked damn good while doing so.

@John_Lyle it's bristling with weapons is the flagship of the fleet and gets in constant fights. There should be no kids whatsoever but that's starfleets fault.

He was 100% a dick. But when I was in the Navy, I was most battle ready for the Captain that was the biggest dick. 🤷

It wasn't about making friends, it was about him not knowing what he was doing. Guy was the embodiment of "fake it till you make it."

Making people work for you while making them hate you will certainly not make for a productive environment that achieves the mission.

Starfleet has no moral standards, they give promotions to Janeway and her gang of terrorists.

@@Walter_Stroud The episode made it clear Jellico was unsure of himself, bluffing and gambling with people's lives. He was just lucky, this time.

I mean. Fair. It's just to me it semeed more like he was blustering and pushing weight around ... just to bluster and push weight around. Me? I'm going to be guy in shift three working fuckall deck fuckwhee so I'm never going to see the guy I'm just going to get it from my supervisor that everything's cycled out which is going to leave me annoyed but what choice do I have? It's the fleet's flag ship. Having a shift change is far less of an issue than Q showing up, or some face coming out of a space hole that randomly killed someone, or the gods-damned Borg again... Point is. Jelico is..... barely in the top ten on disruptive things that ship goes through.

@@singletona082 Hell Jellico isn't even in the top twenty lol

@@singletona082 a new captain disruption was the unfamiliar disruption.

Exactly. Picard was like Riker's friend after all those years

@@singletona082 did you ever really work shift? Did you ever had your sleep cycle to adapt to a massive change and interruption

Especially if you accept the existence of Section 31. And why isn't there something less CIA like in Star Fleet like some Special OPS type?

In fairness the Cardiassians are expert spies and they did tailor the honeytrap so it needed a precise bit of knowledge and expertise they knew only Picard would have (perhaps they saw a public domain paper on a niche subject he had written years ago and tailored it to that). It was picard they wanted so they could tailor a trap to lure him specifically in. Wether that still means they should have sent a 60+ year old flagship captain down to an enemy planet with no other tactical ground crew other than 2 others..

It's the same type of logic as sending a captain and first officer on away missions. It's necessary for the show, but tactically a poor decision.

@@bumbleguppyWe know Starfleet Intelligence runs cover ops but we haven’t really seen them doing special ops style stuff. They seem to just use line officers for that.

@@bumbleguppy If it was DS9 and they sent in Worf, Kira and Bashir I'd buy that. Beverly & Picard not so much

Simple and great way of putting it.

Amen

Well put.

Agreed, Jellico seems impersonal to everyone. But then again, we don't know how he is to his crew on his own ship. It would have been interesting to see.

​@MarinCipollina the issue if hirts crew efficiency

If you call that best outcome do not think what could be worse

I think Admiral Hackett from Mass Effect, by way of the Arrival DLC, was in charge of that mission "Oh really, you have this extremely dangerous and risky mission, that if even the smallest detail goes wrong, it means all out war. Great, let me call the literal poster boy for the not military and let him lead half the bridge officers of the flag ship on that mission. What could go wrong?" And yes, I'm well aware it was a solo mission in Mass Effect. But thiers clear parallels here though. I agree with you on all other points. I think someone had an idea for "drama" and ran with it. Not a bad idea, it just fell flat.

I agree had he had more time and became more comfortable with his subordinates he probably would have delegated more. It was clear most of the officers did not have the right mindset for a possible war. Like Geordi talking about him rerouting some power conduits will shut down some science departments. Jellico says we are not on a survey mission Geordi. I think Jellico did the right thing getting the Enterprise and the crew ready to fight. Just the humble opinion of this combat veteran.

i call that command style criminal irresponsible

Considering they use a science research vessel as a battleship to fight the Borg maybe they don't...

in-universe, him criticizing someone's clothing is just him being controlling for no reason. and making changes to people's sleep schedules right before a batlle is not gonna help anything.

@@RilianSharp I don’t see it that way. The Enterprise needed to become a military vessel, which requires the formalities of everyone being in proper uniform. I cannot analogize real military doctrine to a three shift rotation versus four in a fictional universe, but if Jellico thought it would make people more prepared for battle, it was the right call to do it immediately.

@@thebagnechannel3183 why does him wanting it that way make you think it was the right call? he could just be bad at his job. uniforms are stupid. they don't help.

Bullshit Changing the sleep pattern has on the short run only negative consequences

@@thebagnechannel3183 I hear the modern prussian officer corps laughing

And also, even if he's unreasonable, they're in the military, and they're sailors. You don't have to like your orders, but you are duty bound to follow them.

@@BigTylt No , we are not I had never a duty to follow an order that violated my honor or was not given with an official service goal. An officer has to follow his orders, except they go against his honor. the soldier king The king made you a staff officer that you know when not to follow orders

@@thodan467 In modern militaries, it's not so much a question of honor as it is the legality of the orders you are given. In certain circumstances an officer can be charged with a crime for following orders, if said orders are ruled to be illegal.

@@Lennis01 Honor= reputation, in this case professional reputation

By and large, I agree. Both the Enterprise's crew and Jellico made mistakes in their approaches. It's basic team dynamics stuff. They just spent a tremendous amount of time in the "storming" phase because two egos were clashing. What I will contend is your assertion that Reginald Barclay is not the best of the best. After the events of "Hollow Pursuits," Barclay is a stellar officer every single time he's on-screen. From outwitting Moriarty in "Ship in a Bottle," to successfully contacting Voyager in "Pathfinder," Barclay is a winning officer. He's also an excellent holoprogram author, managing to continue working with the medium even after overcoming his addiction to it. That's honestly impressive levels of willpower and self-determination. I'd have him on my crew in a heartbeat.

@irregularassassin6380 Your Barclay argument is solid, but I do think Starfleet HR might need to send around a memo about locking the holosuite when having *certain* kinds of fun.

@@DreadPirateDoug Yeahhh... That might be a good idea.

What I wonder is what Riker would have done if Jellico *hadn't* swallowed his pride? It honestly doesn't look great for Riker regardless. If Jellico actually was too emotional or otherwise not qualified for his position, then Riker's smug "Just ask" could have sent Jellico over the edge, causing Jellico to reject Riker and go with a less skilled pilot, which in turn would have put everyone at risk. Riker's smug response only works if Riker was certain Jellico was indeed a competent and capable captain, but that again raises the question of why Riker had been (and continued to be) so insubordinate.

@@BainesMkII excellent point!

Ayyy

No kidding, pretty damn cool.

I love it. I get to see all of my favorites, and find some new ones too.

You're forgetting that Jellico started the "let's drop the ranks, so I can tell how I feel about you."

1. TV shows have limited time and budgets. 2. The ceremony was done for the audiences benefit and understanding. 3. You're right. Riker should have mutinied...

It was done for show but also in case Picard wouldn't return

Man, Jellico's cats could, and in fact, did.

Exactly my thoughts. Under Picard, the crew became soft. Everyone except Data seemed to have issues. Change can be hard and disruptive but these are supposed to be the best of the best on the Enterprise. They are definitely not that.

why did he then did that the whole time

If only it were that simple

Great analysis. A near-lampshade deconstruction of the franchise's core tropes. Never looked at it that way before!

Except, he was ordered to do those things by SF to do those things. He was executing orders from above. Its not his personal decision, its orders from above, and Jellico is doing what he's ordered to do with Starfleet Command's full confidence

@@luzhang2982 Jellico was ordered to take command of the _Enterprise_ and negotiate with the Cardassians. Those were his orders. Starfleet did not tell him _how_ to command the Enterprise, nor how exactly to negotiate. The crew rotation, Troi's uniform, his belligerence at the negotiating table, those were all on him.

Riker's reactions were in line with his ethics, if that's an appropriate word, but I do agree his reactions were dialled up to 11 for this episode.

because Riker was allowed on the holodeck or a nearby planet for some RnR, the ladies were kept waiting too long 😂

@@jamesabernethy7896 the story was very good overall but the whole conflict between River and Jellico seemed like filler. Unless Jellico was issuing illegal orders, which he wasn’t, Riker should have obeyed. The idea that Riker was the best man for the job to fly the shuttle mission seemed silly as well. Surely could have found better things for these guys to do than fight.

@@GadZookz I agree, I court martial or severe disciplinary procedure would be warranted. You've got to think of how his experience on the Pegasus effected him. People following orders that get other good officers killed. Although clandestine in nature, there was still a command structure.

When does he throw a fit? The only time he shows that kind of emotion is when he is discussing Picard being treated as a POW, which is an emotional moment. The rest of the time he is doing his job to the best way he knows how. He obeyed all the orders given even if he disagreed with them.

Their captain should be creating a cohesive relationship with his crew to prepare them for war. He's not a drill instructor and it wasn't the appropriate time to break his crew down either.

Jellico was also preparing the crew of a peace time fleet for a potential combat environment. If he had to be a dick so be it. Change is never easy but the crew of the flag ship should be able to handle stress and adapt to a new command style.

Exactly Exactly Exactly. Imagine dealing with the Jemhedar with all these sensitive whiny officers

​@stevencoardvenice they fought the borg. Again his executiins is his biggest flaw

"Jellico was inflexible and frankly a detestable man I would never want to have anything to do with. Yet he also gets results." This is why I think he was good for the time he was there. He was basically the federation's fixer. He didn't need or want anyone to like him. He just needed them to do what had to be done to solve the problem he was there to solve.

My issue,@@DrinkyMcBeer is that 'Not here to make friends' tends to be code for 'I am an asshole I revel in BEING an asshole and you WILL like me for it or you WILL be removed.'

@@singletona082 um yeah. Hes an asshole, maybe. That's basically just personal opinion. He doesnt care what people think? Sure, but what's it matter when you have just one job to do, and then you're gone. He will remove you if you get in his way? Sure. He has one freaking reason for being there. Why would he allow one man to stand in the way of doing what he needed to do? All Riker needed to do was his job. When the captain says "I want X thing done", his job is to make it happen. He addressed his concerns to the captain, who considered them and then said "I still want it done." Riker should have just changed the damn crew rotation. Instead he made himself look entirely inept to his new captain. First impressions are important, especially when you lack the luxury of a good deal of time to really sus out each person's true identity. Riker made himself look lazy and incompetent.

I mostly agree with you. To me Jellico's worst moment is when he realizes that he needs Riker for his mission to work and then insults him anyway. What an ass. If he had just said: "Look Commander. We got off on the wrong foot, but you are the best pilot on the ship and I need you. My plan is the best way to take the Cardassians out and demand Captain Picard back if it works. Will you do it?" Riker would have said "yes sir" and snapped to it without any further blowback. I liked Troi's jumpsuits, so Jellico gets no points from me for that, but she did happen to stay in regulation dress for the rest of the series.

@@canalesworks1247 I mean the jumpsuit works as occasion, but i'm glad for the changeover. I just... forgot that they actually went with the actual uniform after that.

Power move, head that off at the pass...I can see that.

Also, it would make him easing off on the whip feel more like him coming to a middle ground as opposed to him getting essentially ragdolled by the crew that in his mind couldh ave gone 'THIS IS HOW WE DO THINGS HERE.' I still say exicution fell flat on its face, but I can see the rational behind it.

I'd also say that he was unsure if he could have used any other method to ease transition since every member of the crew was going to compare him to Picard no matter what happened. He tried his best with the tools available.

​The most elite crew in starfleet couldn't handle being told to dress in uniform and shift their work schedule by a couple hours?

@@DrinkyMcBeer i didnt see Troi having any problem wearing her uniform, and she continued to do for the rest of the series. As far as the 4 shift rotations, it wasnt that they couldnt handle it. It actually meant fewer hours per crewperson, but more staffing, which may have been logistically more difficult than "get it done" becaus ei think the problem was how soon Jellico want the shift change implemented. Not impossible, but definitely a flex on thw crew as a whole

Much as i dislike the man (and i've made that clear in my own response,) there was potential there for him to come to a middle ground. Had he been more communicative at least with the senior staff and been willing to meet with department heads. Sure the end result is still an immediate four shift with personnel assignments, but it's a diffrence between 'My Way. NOW.' and 'This is what i need this is why I need it. What do you need to make that happen?' I feel had Jellico been on for, say, an entire season or even just a several episode arc we could have had a long running plot where he comes to terms with his own inflexibility in an evolving situation... and perhaps guilt over the treaty with a frankly inferrior power leading t opossibly giving them political clout on the galactic stage ('See! The Federation makes treaty with us! We are to be taken seriously!') Perhaps he feels lingering guilt over the border worlds situation and the maquis. Would've been interesting to look at.

@@singletona082 Yeah, that's a really good summarization. It feels like it's just there to make you hate the substitute teacher for no real reason. Apparently Jellico goes on to get promoted so clearly whatever he's doing is working in some capacity, it would've been nice, as you said, to see him maybe adapt to whatever "modern" sensibilities he'd need to.

@@ryanscuderi5488 The problem is the abruptness. Frankly? Til he gets snippy over any sort of pushback? It's routine. Hell, them using Jelico as reason to put troi in a proper fucking uniform gives him a lot of credit. It's the fact he acted like a diva when it wans't all his own way. Granted Riker also behaved badly when it was clear Jelico wasn't really going to listen to him, but I view that as riker's failing there. The initial misgivings and such though? Were fair. Riker was doing the XO's job.

Thank you!

As a vet, do you think the ordinary fan might miss the subtext of Jellico being an experienced war vet himself? That he comes from maybe years of fire fights with the Cardassians in the past so his command style is going to reflect that?

@@bumbleguppy You understand what sarcasm is, right?

@@GopherBaroque61 sorry

Thank you so much!

Me too. I want to see officers who've served in wartime

I wasn't Navy, and I wasn't an officer. But if it matters, from a US Army sergeant's perspective, I'd rather have a Jellico than a Picard any day. By the time this episode takes place, Picard had been in command for years. He was actively friends with most of his command staff. And I mean, like, personal friends. Picard was shown repeatedly to be a diplomat first, warrior/soldier second. And when you're at peace, that's fine. You can even get away with being more personable with your subordinates in peacetime. Jellico was clearly shown to be a far more aggressive leader than Picard, he was also a lot more decisive than Picard, and in many ways, impersonal. This is crucial in combat. The vast majority of tasks you will carry out while being "in charge" in a military unit (and yes, Starfleet IS a military, Picard is wrong/in denial on that point) will basically boil down to either doing things you do not want to do, or ordering other people to do things that they do not want to do. If I am tasked with clearing a safe path through a potential minefield, or canvas a convoy route for IED's and I have no other tool to complete that mission than to assign a couple of troopers to clear the field manually or walk forward escort on the convoy, then the entire unit NEEDS to know that I do not care about them, as people. They NEED to know that I did NOT assign that duty to the two guys that have given me (the boss) the most grief over the last two or three weeks. They NEED to know that I did not NOT CHOOSE the two guys that I get along with the most, or the two guys that maybe helped me out with something in the past. The unit, as a whole, MUST believe that I am an uncaring, emotionless machine that will equally and fairly send them to do something that will likely result in their deaths, not because I like or dislike certain of them over others, but because I have, as their leader, calculated that the best chance of mission success relies on the troopers I send out to walk the route or to clear the field to be the absolute best choice possible. ANY doubts that they may have will result in catastrophic loss of morale and every time I send someone to do something he's going to ask himself, "Did Sarge send me out here to get sniped because I caused him grief?" and the moment that that happens, the unit will no longer be able to trust me to spend their lives fairly. The extreme result of that doubt can result in something colloquially known as "fragging". Rule #3 of Being In Charge: Leaders lead, but they never forget that behind them are a lot of men who have been trained to kill, are armed, and you only have two eyes, and they aren't in the back of your head. Jellico is cold, decisive, experienced, impartial, mission-focused, and driven to succeed. His quality as a combat officer is far superior to Picard's. You never doubt exactly where you stand with Jellico, you never doubt that he will do whatever it takes to get the job done, and you never doubt that he made the most impartial choice of who gets to stay behind or who gets to take their chances with God, Murphy, and the enemy. When you're looking down the barrel of a hot war, that's some crucial stuff right there.

@@vishnu79 and criminal stupid, and a failure in leadership would you want to go into combat when your unit command refused to tell his XO and the other subleaders his intent? Who send the crew of your most important combat asset to stupid time wasting duties and replaced them with less experienced soldiers at best?

Yeah, I always pictured him as being older.

Agree on all counts. A lot of his 'demands' frankly WERE reasonable. It's just when he got any sort of pushback at all even in the form of explainations and requests for more time for the hcangeover is where he loses me and goes from 'reasonable' to 'dickhead.'

As one who has worked shift for over 30 years, the schedule change was criminal stupid. I wonder why the medical officer did not veto it

@@singletona082 This is the best summary of my thoughts on the flaws in Jellico's style. He seems to have a hang up whenever anyone "challenged" him. Challenged as in did something a proper XO should do like go "Captain we have a lot of the heads of departments who are against this change for various reasons." to which he replies "don't care, do it anyway, I don't even want to hear about it"

Honestly had this streached out into jellico having a half season with hte enterprise? It would've worked wonders so we get a more fleshed out character and a wider perspective.

I thought Rowan had some great zingers, to be sure :D Really glad I got him for this discussion!

This is a very "beatings will continue until morale improves" attitude. If you make your crew wish you would die in your sleep, and, as a result, make them less productive under your command, are you a good commander? Just because he did everything legally, it doesn't mean he did everything appropriately.

I agree. In fact, and this position is likely to be unpopular; but true nevertheless, Riker, through his behavior would be a risk to the mission. He is aware (paying attention to his previous interactions with Ro Laren) that the Rank structure exists because it not only works, but works well. His antagonistic conduct toward his Captain in this context is great for the story but not very realistic, especially for a seasoned career officer.

Was he in the right or did he just get lucky with his bluffs?

@@ericstaples7220 yes

yes, i say that to US military personnel for years.

Funny how often I see people going 'I was in [millitary branch] and Jellico is a 'proper' captain!!!!111ONE' yet they completely sweep aside the fundimental flaw. Him making changes were well within his scope of authority and there were merits in changing gears for a potential conflict. What wa unacceptable wasn't letting senior staff/department heads in on intent so that if... say... the new captain gets taken out that intent can still be carried out. He activly antagonized key personnel and the only reason Data was as docile as he was, I feel, was he probably went under the idea that 'I have no true feelings to hurt. I can take the abuse others might buckle under and hopefully filter this man's caustic attitude into something the crew will be able to work with as it comes from a familiar and hopefully trusted face.' All that said? Putting Troi in a proper uniform was a godsend.

Thank you so much! A lovely to comment to receive after hours of sifting through all the over-the-top reactions to this video lmao

@OrangeRiver You're welcome! Don't let those Jellico's get to you. Great Video!

Lmfao

I judge Jellico against men like Blücher, Moltke, and von Seeckt

That cannot be credited to him though. You can't really judge Jellico for out-of-universe outcomed. When he told Troi to put on a uniform, he didn't think "that will finally make the TNG writers know what to do with you".

This was how I took it. You should always train harder than you fight.

I'd taken the idea that he was deliberately stressing them so the cardassians would see the federation flagship harried and ill at ease and think they can sink in only for Jellico to read in their overplayed hand. Still a dick for not explaining to senior staff if nobody else so that they could coordinate with department heads or at least help mitigate any potentia ldisasters.

@@DrinkyMcBeer AGREED.We had a saying in the army:You fight how you train.Some people are very-SOFT-want a feel good boss/leader,don't want someone in charge to demand you raise your level of play,this is coming from a combat vet. I did 4 deployments to go fight in Iraq ( I volunteered for all 4 tours )with the Texas Guard ( my first tour was with an infantry unit )so my mind-set is very different from others. LOL.

@@singletona082 i saw it more as having a limited time to judge for himself the personalities and demeanor of his crew/command staff. He put them into a chaotic situation before shit hit the fan to attempt to sus out how they may act in an actual crisis. He didnt strike me as the type of person to just read a personnel report and accept that it was an accurate account of that person. He wanted to see for himself. He let his senior staff show him themselves how they react when things start to get messy.

@@singletona082 not a dick criminal irresponsible stupidity

Data was totally inexperienced in real command and made mistake after mistake after mistake what was Jellicos excuse

@@thodan467 he made no mistakes. He exposing the romulans

@@stevencoardvenice he made a lot of mistakes like not communicating his plans with his XO, like micromanaging and mondaymorningquarterbacking him....

@@thodan467 did we watch the Same episode? What are u talking about

@@stevencoardvenice I talk about criticizing his XO for doing his duty, not informing that he planned to activate the "depoisining" the area himself(what would have happened if Data could not do that)

Geordi mentions having a significant number of his crew reassigned when talking to Riker about it. And Geordi is the most good natured of the crew, as well as one of the most important senior officers. This lends credence to the idea that Jellico was doing a lot of things.

@@neodigremo Geordi's reactions to the situation were a huge red flag, and the surest sign that Jellico had made a bad call. Whatever Geordi's personal feelings about the changes, and he is not one to complain about things in general, his post as Chief Engineer gives him the most pragmatic view on the effects Jellico's changes are having on the operation of the ship. He was given a job, but not being given the resources he needed to carry it out. On a ship facing a probable crisis with an established and ruthless enemy, these kinds of disruptions are bad for morale, and cause the crew to lose confidence in their captain at the worst possible time.

If Riker had done his job better, there might have been less friction between the crew and Jellico. Geordi also reacted poorly. Instead of properly evaluating Jellico's order and calming presenting legitimate potential issues, Geordi immediately rejects it with what turned out to be a *false* claim that it is impossible.

He's doesn't need to be anything more than competent during this military crisis. The goal is to intimidate the cardassians

No he hes neither a real asshole or competent

@@BainesMkII Riker could only do that if he violated his honor, his duty to the crew and Jellico refused even to hear other options

It wasn't what his descisions were. It was how he chose to impliment them.is the problem. Adding a fourth shift rotation in theory gives everyone more time to rest/recover and you have more off-shift personnel to call in as fresh reinforcement if problems show up. However that takes time that they presumeably didn't have judging by the speed of the situation. Combat drills is good in general no complaints there. Sacking your first officer when he does his job in raising concerns? That's unacceptable. Granted Riker didn't help his case by being a Diva about it, but the executive officer if noone else must understand rational and reasoning. Not hastily barked 'shut up and fall in line.' Leaving the department heads in the dark about intent was a massive mis-step. Fine 'not here to make friends' but the flipside is 'don't make enemies while you're there.' Yes he is there to get shit done, but without the department heads and bridge crew understanding his intent rather than just the barked order? What happens when he's not there to micro-manage? I work for someone like that. Complains nothing is how they want it and how nobody takes initiative, but slaps dow nanyone who attempts to do anything without going 'mother may I.' People like Jellico want it both ways and so keep everyone around them afraid to do anything. All while sycophants on the internet apologize and whine and winge at how 'he's a proper captain.' Try working for someone like that and you'll realize fast how there can BE no trust and how nothing you do will ever be correct even if you follow the letter and spirit of the order.