I feel like the superbreak team, not just firefly doing damage should be taken to account. In the Acheron team she's the hypercarry, the rest of the team basically does no damage, while the superbreak team, if enemies are broken the entire team deals massive damage.
@@monkeydspider8203 enemies like that is fine since there's still a window where we can hit them. But when they make the weakness unbreakable then it will be bad for every character not just break units and the only unit that can be use in that scenario is only 2 which is dhil and acheron since from what i saw only that 2 unit can brute force enemies.
YOO SAME (I have my Pela and welt at lvl 60 lmao while I min maxed my acheron to have raw 233 critdamage and 55 critrate while having a Natasha as sustain 💀 but I'm planning on getting my second team before I fully build both nihility)
Firefly is easier to build and have better dmg but really needs ruan mei and hmc to be broken (otherwise she's just "good") and once the enemy locked their weakness bar you can't do anything to them Acheron requires higher investment but is quite flexible with all f2p nihility support available (I personally prefer pela and silverwolf, can't wait for jiaoqiu tho) but without her lc it's really hard to gain stacks unless you invest your supports on spd. Not sure if lcless acheron also needs spd boost tho And yep I have both if them (acheron E0S1 firefly E0S0)
I honestly prefer using Acheron over Firefly, because I get the feeling that they are gonna add toughness break immunity enemies with some speed adjustment to out speed us in any end game content (MoC, PF, Etc...), just for the sake of to prevent any chance of super break, Acheron still deals big damage with her ultimate even when there are enemies that dont have lightning weakness.
it also apply to Acheron what if they released enemies with high resistance debuffs or immune to debuffs in overall we don’t know what type of enemies they release
@@silkyhood9024 sure that may happen, but she is still usuable even when if her dmg have been have been greatly reduce, whereas Firefly will only deal what her Atk stat she currently has, since her gimmick rely on super break, which she or her team has to break enemies toughness first to begin with.
Considering Break Gauge of the enemy is one of the main mechanics in combat of Honkai. Investing into superbreak/break dmg feels more like a futureproof instead on the a pure and raw DPS like DHIL and Acheron
Yea Acheron may need more supports that aren’t free but she makes it up on team flexibility and overall more opportunities to deal damage opposed to just when the enemy is weakness broken which may not even be available at times against some opponents.
@@user-ft1ru8jv1zprobably not since that is insanely luck based.To get crit and break aswell as spd? You need the best luck in the whole world for that
Also consider that the current mOC has the boss that takes extra damage break damage and upon break takes further enhanced damage. On the other hand, yes she is very consistent. Very good for any fire elite heavy stages because the small fry will get fire implanted.
I would say generally acheron because of her OP insta kill in overworld and SU and the fact that see can end fight quick without needing to worry about something like weakness immunity
True. My lucky ass got Acheron, Ruan and Fly now as an accident. I was intending to skip her cuz I have not materials. Guess gotta go to the mines to farm.
i need around 160 pulls for Ruan Mei, i was gonna give up to pull for Firefly cuz i only have 260 pulls, but somehow i could get E1S1 FF. and once the 2.3 drop, i used all the jades to pull her again, win the 50/50, now she s E2S1. best pull of my life.
@@roxas5071 well it kinda helped me in th first two levels so acheron is not that bad in pure fiction is just that you have to have at least characters that help run acheron ultimate fast enough
The only reason i think that Acheron is better then Firefly is because even if the enemy can be weakness broken, there are then enemies who action advance the enemy so even if you do break them they just get their action advanced (looking at the dreamjolt troupe)
@@seb5708 yeah and there are a lot of ppl that dont have ruan mei, and even then what i said still applies as they can get action advanced after the second break
@@phosyphos5192 not really, i run pela and guin(e0) and still hitting and can still very comfortably clear all content. for reference, moc auto clear 5 cycles, no 5 star lc and no dubes
Making enemies immune to break is affecting the whole game, not just break teams. We have been taught to match the weakness of the enemy to deal more damage to it and remove its toughness bar. This lies at the core of the game. Any unit is usually scrwed when enemies are immune to weaknesses. This is why there is only a window for it and ways to remove that state. A permanent immunity to weakness state would be terrible for any team.
Game is based on team comps not just a single character.. Break teams rely on super break but since it is granted to the whole team, each member could actually deal good dmg compared to other hyper carty teams..
have both, cleared all content with both, acheron shined on the hardest content of the game (conondrum frckng 12), Firefly shined on divergent universe and apocalyptic shadow
The thing is- they can both do great damage even if you don't have specific team comps. If you want the absolute best damage they can offer, then yes, you have to invest in expensive units like Ruan Mei or sparkle and silver wolf.
I’d say the two are somewhat niche DPSes, while Firefly and her team all focus on breaking opponents toughness to deal tons of damage, Acheron’s team is mostly for stacking debuffs to get her ult up quicker for well, more damage The two both have their weaknesses but they still provide a good enough execution for their jobs
Just got the game 3weeks ago. I am blitzing through the content to get the full Firefly team, but I feel like if there’ll be one character I would truly dedicate to it’ll be Acheron, her playstyle, kit and story I love it all. I think she’ll be the only character I’d E6. Edit: YOOOOOOO I JUST GOT MY BEST 10 PULL IN OVER 2 YEARS OF GACHA!!!! 30 PITY, GOT FIREFLY, HER E1, AND E1 CLARA IN ONE 10 PULL!!!
ay bro i started when acheron came out and i got 10 five stars in a month dw bro ull get firefly easily, i lost my 50/50 and then still got acheron and her LC
If you really want to e6 Acheron, I'd say after getting Firefly's team, saved up for her since we are actually getting very close to Acheron rerun. I'll even say to skip Jiaoqiu even though he is very good with Acheron (assuming you're an f2p, if not then do as you see fit)
*Free-to-play friendliness* Firefly is definitely *way* more F2P friendly than Acheron, only wanting SPD, Break Effect%, and ATK, whereas other DPSes would want a variety of stats, such as CRIT Rate%, CRIT DMG%, respective Elemental DMG Bonus%, etc, which makes them harder to build. Additionally, Acheron *really* wants her Signature Light Cone, Along the Passing Shore, since it can give her an extra stack of Slashed Dream when you apply Mirage Fizzle onto an enemy. *Team Versatility* Acheron is way more versatile in team compositions right now, since she'd want just 2 Nihility characters to max out her bonus DMG from her talents, but Silver Wolf and Pela are the most chosen due to providing 100% DEF Reduction on the enemy, shredding their defenses and allowing Acheron to do as much damage as possible. Firefly, however, really wants Harmony MC and Ruan Mei, since Harmony MC gives her an additional Super Break on top of her passive Super Break, as well as more Break Effect%, which increases Super Break DMG, and Ruan Mei because she gives 50% Weakness Break Efficiency on top of Firefly's innate 50% from the Ultimate, which is a total of 100% Weakness Break Efficiency, essentially doubling her Toughness Reduction. If you don't know, Toughness Reduction is also a factor in Super Break DMG, so Ruan Mei's +50% gives a multiplicative multiplier to that DMG. She can also apply Thanatoplum Rebloom when her Ultimate is active, which delays the enemy's action when they try to recover from Weakness Break, allowing Firefly to likely deal an extra instance of Super Break DMG before they gain their Toughness back. *Counters* Acheron definitely has way less counters, with said counters being easily avoided (ex: that traffic light. Just use one of your allies ults on it and that barrier is gone, then just Acheron ult immediately after). Firefly however has the issue of "Weakness Protected" enemies such as Yanqing. This is also where Ruan Mei shines bright, as finally breaking these enemies weaknesses allow Firefly to deal as much damage as she can over a large period of time before they can act again. Luckily however, Harmony MC is free, so there's that issue gone. *DPS Potential* Assuming both Firefly and Acheron are built *perfectly* , it is likely that Firefly will deal more DMG than Acheron, so long as the enemy's toughness is broken. This is because Acheron does a bunch of damage in one go, while Firefly does a good amount of damage over time. The amount of damage Firefly can do is almost equal to that of an Acheron ult (65%~80% of an Acheron Ult's DMG), so having a bunch of those will definitely bring Firefly more DPS in that scenario. However, she does lose substantial DPS when enemies still have their Toughness, much like how Acheron loses substanstial DPS when she doesn't have her Ultimate. In conclusion, both characters are good at dealing a heck ton of DMG: Firefly being a more easier to build DPS but slightly worse brute force potential than Acheron, while Acheron being the opposite of that, being somewhat a hard DPS to build, but can brute force through alot of content in the game. I can also safely say this, because I have both Acheron and Firefly (and I have an E3 Acheron, somehow)
Firefly is easier to build? I've seen a lot of people complaining about the new BE relic set dropping a bunch of crit and other unnecessary substats. 😂
@@Azmuth01BE literally has some of the highest drop rate as a substat so🤷 at the same time atk% is also very good on hẻ and it has higher drop rate than crit. Got my firefly's relic set built in just 2 days
@@Azmuth01every DPS relic drops wil always hard to get no matter what relic it is. Acheron's relic rarely gives Crits, while FF's rarely gives BE. But talking from my experience, FF is easier
The point is, you only need to look for two stats in relics, atk% and break effect. You don't even need speed in substats, 140 from boots+traces+planars is enough if you have Ruan Mei (if you don't, you'll need 10 more speed). And you don't have to balance those stats at all. Just get as much as you can. It is SOOOO MUCH EASIER, not to mention much easier main stats in relics
@@BlueSpiritFire1 he can’t heal. Also, las I checked there are still Nihility units that are worse than Harmonies for her (Sampo, Luka, etc.). Also, the joke is that to know his kit, he’d have to look at leaks which is against ToS and can get him a strike or get him kicked from the Creator Program.
@@abdurehmanmalik2980 Oh I didn't realise it was a joke, my bad. I've only heard that fox guy can heal as a Nihility. I don't know what Harmony characters have to do with this though? I was thinking that having a Nihility that can heal means you can fulfill her trace that scales off the amount of Nihility characters in the team without needing an Abundance sustain or something, allowing for more team flexibility.
I only have Firefly but so far I'm loving the ability to basically bombard enemies and kill them before they can do anything with her techniuque. If I ever get the chance for Acheron I'm sure I'd love her too.
If you are new to the game, get Acheron and not Firefly, sure you'll need another debuffer or someone else to apply DoTs but there's free options for that and it's not too bad, it's easy to mix her team up even if it's not optimal so you could have a nuke with Acheron that doesn't rely on breaks with everyone on the team being nigh invincible. Firefly's team is very much the team she is restricted to, maybe in the future if there's more wriggle room as more characters come out it'll be more recommendable but in the specific situations that are pretty common in this game her team faces uphill battles, 5 enemies or no weaknesses and suddenly you're dreading whatever's about to happen in that battle, also heavily relies on ultimates and break effect/SPD, Acheron's many potential teams are less restricted in that way so grinding can be less painful.
I have both, and honestly they are good in their own way. Acheron doesn't need to break enemy weakness to deal massive amount of damage, but on the other hand, focusing on breaking enemy's weaknesses is easier than build up stack for acheron.
Regardless, nobody can defeat the Aeon of Shields, Automaton Beetle. Even Nanook wouldn't dare to touch it. Qlipoth envies its unbreakable bastion. And its imposing presence shall be remembered by Fuli for eternity. It also trailblazed all over Akivili in 4K-
Honestly both are great and even more great when placed in team together(coming from someone who tested them with each other in new simulation endgame mode) cuz turns out break Acheron is powerful alongside firefly destroying enemies toughness with ruan mei sig buff and her ult giving Acheron more stacks break enemy toughness by firefly and buff it up with ruan mei and harmony mc and you have two monstrous dps best dual dps I ever tryed
The argument most people use to say that Acheron is better, is that "someday the devs might implement bosses that have no break bar". Kinda pathetic to base your decision on a big if. Firefly is a beast, Acheron is good.
Acheron is feature-proof. Like you said, plenty of enemies already have phases where they are break immune, and all they’d have to do to check this team going forward is make more of them. What are they gonna do for Acheron? Ultimate-damage-immune enemies? Nah probably not
with yhe direction the game is going, i think firefly may be better in the long run than acheron. theyre giving a lot of break support to dps like firefly and boothill (new relics, march is a rly good sub dps for break dps, and there are a few more break supports to come) it could be that firefly may outcreep acheron just due to the support rn, not to say that acheron will ever be bad ofc lol theyre both still broken dps and on par with one another imo
I’m just gonna say I have Acheron at s1 and have neither silver wolf nor sparkle. Though I can’t clear all endgame yet. For the things I can clear, Acheron does it so easily with welt sustain. My last slot is usually Ruan Mei cause imprisonment is such a strong break and can give you a whole cycle to yourself
assuming you are trying to build 2 teams for the 3 endgame modes we have, you can have firefly on one side and acheron on the other. Make adjustments accordingly and you quite literally never need to pull again. let’s not even talk about having them both at E2
Acheron doesn't NEED those particular nihility units, she just works better with them in some context. In simulated univerce dot characters actually work better with her with nihility path.
I'd argue they can be equal in terms of dps, just different types. Which is good. If hoyo keep doing it, players wouldn't be pressured to pull for a character because their characters are getting weaker, or feeling like the messed up their account because they didn't get a single character
In order to sell new characters, Hoyo will introduce new enemies that makes it harder for previous characters to deal with for example, New Bosses with unbreakable toughness bar (we already have) but worse in the future for break team.
Investing into Acheron up until E6 would mean she can do break to any element. She can also be slapped into nihility sub dps. Hypercarry, fill in a harmony spot with Kafka and black swan. I love firefly but she is probably the easiest to powercreep down the line. Acheron is very long term efficient especially if you invest in her or nihility teams.
Acheron and Firefly compete at E0 with Firefly having more turns, both E2 Firefly and Acheron compete each other, but both are equally locked behind specific team comps. The biggest point towards Firefly is that even at E0, she can go 4 times in a single wave, which comes out to be more damage and turn manipulation because of break guarantee. At E2 especially Firefly does far more damage per cycle, but Acheron gets more ults and more damage potential with E2. Both clear endgame, both do incredible and are incredibly fun, so choose who you like the most, or both, and you'll be happy either way. Spend responsibly, I didn't (E2S1)
Like he said, unbreakable enemy would be the end of firefly, while acheron can deal damage regardless of what enemy do. But if firefly do breaks, she would deal more damage
As a f2p person I like both… I accidentally got silver wolf and ruan mei a while ago and had them benched for a while, Now I can use both firefly and Acheron!
2 different characters for different needs for versatility of the game. Where are those who loves the Hunt? Multibreak dmg in one instance, Boothill "MY TURN", Seele Aha-induced attack, Ratio & Topaz
