Yep. I recently got a Yamaha Custom Z after playing on Selmers and a few vintage horns like Conn, Martin, etc. and the Yamaha is easily the best feeling and playability of them all. Gets a great sound as well but it's really about how I feel with a horn that makes me like certain ones much more than others.
With studio headphones into a decent home studio interface it was easy to hear the difference every time you switched sax even though I was blindfolded. Better Sax is awesome at its price for sure, but the Yanagisawa sounds better, as it should for that price. I don't know how to properly describe the difference.. Best i can come up with is that the Better Sax sounded "damp" in comparison. The Yanagisawa was "present" at another level.
En tout cas , le nom de Jay n'est absolument pas gravé sur mes oreilles et ce sont elles qui m'ont dit "près de 6000 billets pour si peu de différence , ça ne vaut pas le coup " , hahahahaha !!!
Yes, little known fact, it's actually impossible to earn money and also be honest. I should have known you would see right through my plan though. Damn you Dave Pollack!
That's what I heard. I think the "Better Sax" horn is a giant step up from some of the buzzy, thin-sounding horns I've heard in the sub 1000 category. I prefer the Yani, but probably not for 10x the price. I would totally buy the Yani and 2x the price though :P
I am still a Yanagisawa artist and this horn is nowhere near the price range of anything they offer so I don't consider it to be competition. What will likely happen is people start out on a Better Sax horn, play on it for several years and then decide to upgrade to a Yanagisawa professional instrument at some point. I still recommend Yanagisawa to anyone who asks and says their budget is in that range. Most people don't have that much money though.
I'm hearing things different...they both sound great. I personally think the Yani is brighter and punchier sounding. That's what I hear anyway. I think the silver neck on the Yani is a factor.
@@cihaksaxophone5993 But the better the player you are the better you can hear tonally and feel playability wise the difference. When your good enough its worth it. My Powell flute is only 5% better than my Haynes but that last 5% cost thousands and is worth it to me. I could do any gig on a Yamaha student flute or an old 2nd series Bundy sax of any size but Ive been playing 50yrs professionally and demand more and feel that I have learned to utilize and enjoy the difference in my vintage Conns and Selmers of all sizes nino to bass. My part time gig is my repair tech business so I know how to set up a horn and that helps.
Honestly could not notice any difference. That may well be the quality of the horn, but the automatic Metcalf embouchure mastery may be influential. My Yamaha Allegro and my embouchure are far from professional and today, to my ear, my tone was very pleasant...tomorrow may be a different story. Thanks much for your commitment and honesty.
The Yani definitely sounds brighter and somewhat clearer to my ears. They're both sounding great - but I can definitely hear a difference. Whether that's over $5k worth of difference... probably not. The Better Sax definitely punches above its weight. Part of me wonders how both will go over time and whether the cheaper horn will need a tune up sooner etc.
You're a brave man - I just could not tell. This will break a lot of hearts of people who've spent a lot of money thinking they'll get that big-money sound. But maximum kudos for your honesty and the work you've done to get that Better Sax built so well. You've done a superb job. Yani will be expecting you to go fall on your sword.
As a complete beginner I have no knowledge and no opinion other than to know what sounds good to me....what I like. During the closed eyes test I did open my eyes every time I heard what was to me a "better" sound...be it fuller, sweeter or any other words that to me signify "nicer". Every time I opened my eyes it was, every time, the Better Sax! I have loved the sound of the alto sax for 50 years so I do know what they can sound like without knowing any of the terms that people like to use to describe those sounds.
Thank you so much for this video. I’m a beginner on saxophone after playing trumpet for years and I couldn’t get over how expensive saxophones were. I just skipped over the cheaper $500-$700 saxophones because I assumed that they were low quality. Now I realize that the branding and pricing on a saxophone really doesn’t matter.
In my opinion and experience the further you go from the vocal tract the less impact each component has on the sound. So in order of importance it’s vocal tract, embouchure, mouthpiece, (neck), saxophone. That’s why you sound so similar on each horn, as would I and everyone else. The paradox is that the highest percentage of “sax chat” focuses on the two things that make the least difference - MP and horn - as opposed to the two things that make the MOST difference - embouchure and vocal tract. Problem is of course, it’s more difficult to teach and sell improvements in your vocal tract! 😂 I think as one gets older and wiser the Emperor’s New Clothes effect diminishes and a more ego-free pragmatism emerges in respect of gear etc. Quite liberating! Anyway, great vid as usual Jay, and I’d love to get my hands on a Better Sax one day. 👍🏻
Thanks Jamie, I love my very expensive horns, but I no longer think that they are responsible for making me sound better. Same for the mouthpieces but to a lesser degree. I am trying to convey this to people and offer an affordable sax that they can rely on and enjoy.
Indeed, now that you know which one is the Bettersax-horn and which one is the Yani, you can hear the difference. Thnx Jay, for another phantastic tutorial!
Thanks for your video. I love to hear your opinions. I love your playing. Yanagisawa AWO1 is post-to-body and solid brass and is several thousand less than the AWO33. Since BetterSax is built that way, a comparison to WO1 would probably sound even closer to exactly the same. 🤔 😁
I was surprised to hear your comments after the 'demo,' Jay. I heard the exact opposite!! First, I really liked your 'chops' man, very nice. This is a great 'demo' too, cool way to show off the horns. I thought that the Better Sax actually had the 'darker', heavier sound. The Yani was the edgier, bright high-end. I still don't know why you were saying the opposite. I looked at the video again and it was like I said: The Better Sax -- the darker lacquered horn -- sounded heavier, darker and rounder! I liked it, and I will order it soon. - jef Grace
Commenting before I finish and before reading other’s comments...this is brilliant by the way, further evidence that it’s the player that makes the horn sound good! I gravitated towards the Better Sax most of the time because of a slight perception of a fuller, horn section kind of sound. The silver neck seemed to muffle the sound or prevented it from having a fullness to it somehow but basically they sound the same the majority of the time. Bravo 👏
Both of the saxophones sound great! To me, the Yani sounds more full and has a heavier more rounded sound. The Better Sax sounds wonderful, especially for the price, but sounded like it had a bit more edge.
They both sound great to me. I see in the comments that the Yanagisawa has the edge. I agree with this, but I'm not sure if that edge is worth 5K+. If you have any plans for a tenor and/or soprano, I would just request adding the F# key. Thanks for bringing this great horn to the market. I'm hoping to get one if these gigs get fired back up this year.
@@AlecDatDude Thank you. I now own a Better Sax alto and I love it. I had a bit of doubt at first because of marketing, but the price is attractive. My copy is every bit as good as advertised.
I prefer the warmer tone of the better sax. It seems to be more intimate and less piercing. Can’t wait to get mine in the mail, just ordered the bundle with the burnin 5 mouthpiece. Big up. Gonna eventually crush some sweet reggae lines with this bad boy. 👊
@@bettersax Thanks for taking the time to respond Jay. I will definitely consider a RU-vid video with my experience of the Better Sax. I’m a total newb, it’ll be a little while! All the best
Hi Jay and thanks once again for the great content! I just wanted to say that I started playing the alto sax in junior high school in the early 70's and continued through high school but stopped playing in 1978. However thanks to the internet, youtube and people like yourself and Chad LB over at Jazz Video Lessons I am once again taking up the horn. I'm trying my best to take on Charlie Parker, ha ha! I would say to anyone who reads this is that you are never too old to either take up the instrument or re-start your love of it. Heck I'm over 60 and if I can do it anyone can. I just can't thank you enough that you take the time to put together just great content and hope everyone understands how valuable these lessons are...!!! Best Regards....:)
I had a similar experience with the Student model Jupiter Saxophones when they came out. I was teaching at a local music store, and doing School calls and some band repair, and they recieved the shipment of new Jupiter altos and a bari in. They asked me to put them through their paces and much to my surprise, the feel, the weight and even the intonation were quite similar to the Pro Yamahas and my Pro Selmer SA80 Series II. I was playing at the time. The price difference was about a third to a quarter of the other two insturments and I thought this would make a great intermediate student model or a great doubler instrument. A solid framework and a good mouthpiece along with a good embouchure and technique makes all the difference! I like the Better Sax! Sounds edgey and brigh. Your Pro Yani is richer and thicker with a solid upper register. Either one would make fine instruemtns! Well Done Jay and Conn-Slemer!
Great sounds! I feel more silky touch on Yanagisawa, and roughly and wild intonation on better sax. Most important thing I guess is the feedback to player which motivates and brings ideas to next phrases.
Yani sounds slightly clearer to my ears, but I prefer the BetterSax. I like smooth sounding Altos. I'm a trumpet player and I play a very inexpensive student b-flat trumpet as an intermediate player. I love the sound of my horn as do my bandmates and whenever I tell people what horn I play, they cringe or are shocked because it's not a particularly good brand or because it's a beginner horn. I don't think I will replace my horn anytime soon. Thank you Jay for this demonstration and your wonderful tutorials, even a trumpet player can truly appreciate them.
@@DMKahn It's a Santa Fe Bb Student Trumpet, worth about $200. My guess is that it’s a Chinese horn. After spending more time with the horn, people are still impressed with the horn and my tone on the horn, I am still very comfortable with it too. Though I have been window shopping for something new/different, I'm finding that it's difficult to play anything above a high C on this horn, it could also be my mouthpiece (or I just need to practice those notes more lol) I play a Bach 5C mouthpiece.
The old saying still applies. "It's a poor craftsman that blames his (or her) tools." That said, you can tell a lot about the seriousness of a craftsman by looking at his/her tools. It's like anything else. There is a psychological boost to use playing a more expensive horn. Call it confidence. It's like any well maintained cheap used car will get you to the office. There are still people in my neighborhood who drive their Maserati to the grocery store (really). That said, you'll still sound better playing a wrapping paper tube that I will sound on your yanikosawa.
As my good old friend the flautist Michel Debost once said holding a cours in France : "You can all stand behind a curtain and I'll tell you who played what, but I can't hear if you have swifted instrunents. " I think he was right, everyone has his own sound.
I agree with Francis Taylor, the Yani is definitely creamier and fuller. The BSA has a "reedier" sound, especially "up top". They both sound great because it's you playing them. That said, for the difference in price - well, the BSA is amazing value. I've had a 1958 Mk6 alto for 45 years now, and it would be interesting to compare it with your Better Sax instrument because the left-hand ergonomics have never been great for me, especially the low Bb, as I have relatively small hands/short pinkies (though my Selmer Reference 36 Tenor is quite manageable, oddly enough)
Had no idea which was which the first time through and the only difference I was able to notice was at specific times it seemed ever so slightly brighter, which turned out to be the Yani. Once again, the player is the most important thing!
The Yani sounds super cool and thats why it cost so much, but on the other hand if you are a beginner you cant go wrong with the better sax super value for money. :-)
With my eyes closed I couldn't tell a difference - both are very nice! But then again Jay you could be playing a Kazoo and you'd still make it sound great.
Jay - you can make a tin can sound good! I need to buy one and see how some beginning students sound, how well it holds up, and if it can stay in tune. Otherwise, it sounds great and I appreciate your hard work creating it. Excited to give it a try with my students! Nice work Jay, keep the videos coming.
The sound is very distinct. The better sax is more dark and has a more spread sound, more airy def, but the elite is more bright and focused and sound more composed. But both sound like great horns. Those are just my ears.
They both sounded brighter than I like, I was glad to know the pro sax wasn't a Mark VI, cause I could definitely tell it didn't sound like one. That said, it's definitely a compliment for the "Better Sax", that a $650 horn could sound pretty much like one 10X the price...
Yes, the Yani seems very slightly darker, which I typically prefer, but in my opinion the difference in no way is significant enough to justify paying the Yani price. I would allow that the Better Sax alto is an amazing horn for an amazing price. Merci, Jay. It appears that you are making a needed impact on the market.
Silver resonates differently compared to brass. I have a yani 9930, and yanis have a distinct focus to their sound that is evident on both horns, so I'm guessing that you struck a deal with yanis to manufacture your BetterSax horns (they also make Vito branded horns). Anyway, that 'silver yani' sound is the same thing I struggle(d) with on my alto, always fighting it to make it cut more, but it's just how the horn is.
No deal with Yanagisawa, they have nothing to do with this project. Now I'm noticing the heaviness of all my Yanis. I think this is why many players prefer the post to body models. I never noticed so much before having this very light horn to compare to. It's not a bad thing but now I'm just more aware of it.
I feel the need to point out that only so much can be determined from a RU-vid recording of one player, playing 2 horns back to back. In this both sound great and the difference I can hear is existent but I would be lying if I said it wasn't minor which seems like a clear win for the better sax. But as decent player myself who has played entry level yamahas (YTS 275) for most of the 10 years I have been playing and only recently got a nice yany (TW02) I feel like I can say that what you hear is not the whole story. I can say for certain I sound better on my new sax but that's not the main reason it is better. It just plays easier. Its easier to control, the key action is easier and the extremities of the range are easier. Whilst the better sax sounds great as most sax's do in the hands of a master I feel we can't really make a judgement from listening to a RU-vid recording as we have no idea what it feels like to actually play. I am not trying to trash on the better sax or what Jay says either. It seems like a cool product that I would love to try and o.j. have always trusted jays reviews (although whilst I don't think less of him for it and have mad respect that he launched his own sax it does seem there is some vested interest here). I guess this was just a semi pointless rant but oh well. Idk if anyone agrees
Hi Jay. I was able to perceive the difference between the two saxes but we are talking about two products with a different long gan price. I would say that the Better Sax is a very interesting instrument and in my opinion the number one in its category. Excellent for starting and continuing the studies of this wonderful instrument. Compliments. Good job
I know there was a difference but with the switching back and forth, I got lost at certain points distinguishing which sax was which and it just goes to show how good a sax the Better Sax is BUT more so, it’s the player themselves who is the most important factor when it comes to tone production.
Student Yamaha with a high end neck and mouthpiece (the two most important components), that was presumably overhauled and set up perfectly, no kidding people thought it played well. Pro instruments typically last longer and are easier to play. It’s impossible for us to tell how much you had to compensate for the cheap horn, or what the difference would be a few years down the track.
Yes, your description of the difference is what I heard too, more evident on lower notes, Yanni is a little 'rounder'. So the Better Sax carries a Bundy tag too, so its through the ConnSelmer setup. As you showed in earlier videos with the Amazon two cent sax and the Jean Paul, its all about build quality. And at various price points ignoring the choice of the leather upholstery a 'properly built' sax in the 21st century ought to be well, 'correct'. There aren't many more things to discover about how it ought to be, that was pretty much worked out with the Selmer MkVI and refined into mass production by Yamaha. Beyond that it is various small choices that the manufacturers make that contribute to ergonomics (or not as in the Mk VII) and choice of material. Extra refinements like siver bells and necks are what change the price more than the sound. I guess the biggest difference can be ribbed or non ribbed and the grade of metal. So then it is what can be done for the price. The Better Sax is terrifically well priced and its a Selmer! Its a deal! I congratulate you Jay, its a terrific job, and I'm guessing not as straightforward as when you went up to the lady at a NAMM some years ago and asked, 'So if I asked you you could put my name on this horn?' I wish I could get one, but I live in No Mans Land, ie Britain, and you live in the great Continent of Europaland. Maybe one day. ;-)
I prefer the Yamaha, more complex sound with more harmonics. However both sound great when played by a great player; the Better Sax would be a great option for someone where cost was an issue
I bought my first tenor sax for $650 and used it for years without any real concern for it being a lacking horn. The trick is to pair it with a 600$ mouthpiece and decent reeds.
You have Your own Fantastic Sound with both saxophones. I listen a fuller sound in the Yani and You know the "big Theme" with saxophones is not the main sound, are the harrmonics derivated from it. Is the same than tasting a 50 dollars bottle of wine or a 1000 dollars one. Otherwise the Better Sax have a fabulous sound for its price. Congrats, its an excellent product.
There was a similar study done with alcohol...if they switched the vodka or bourbon with an inferior product and put it in the beautiful high-end expensive looking bottle people would choose it as the better product than the fine stuff in the cheap bottle.
The Bettersax alto is brighter asyou say and the Yani a bit darker (though nice) listen with my eyes closed, cool, watched and i thought that altisimmos lick was the Yani, but no it was the Bettersax, wow what a sound from the "dare i say it" cheaper sax, SO when is the UK going to get some ?????, i'll be first in the Q
Wow Jay ive gotta say... I was blown away listening through this comparison. I put my studio monitors on and listened thru it 3 times and .... there is hardly any discernible difference in the sound you’re generating between the 2. Nearly identical. But then part of that is in a very real way not unexpected, as a pro player tends to have their core sound signature and profile deeply imbedded in their mind and will adjust their embouchure, musculature, lip tension tongue placement and even throat position and airflow to produce that signature no matter what horn they’re playing. So I expected quite a bit of that influence to come thru. What I didn’t expect was how similar in tone, intonation and even (to an extent) brightness was between the two! But again, using the same mouthpiece and reed set up , a huge contributor to end sound, would help to equalize them as well. There were only 2 points where I heard any discernible difference really: I heard the consistent brightness of the better sax vs. the more subtle, slightly darker / smoother core of the yani - but only in 2 spots on the entire track, which is pretty remarkable really! The other thing I heard was the spot that you went in one of the later verses chromatically up from the high register into the altissimo, on the better sax I heard some brief intonation issues during transition which, as I’d also expect, you quickly adjusted to bring it right in line. But which I didn’t hear in the yani. Those are both kind of nits though and pretty small differences really given the $5800 difference between them. And I will say I’m as guilty of falling for the conventional wisdom of more $$ = better horn (I play on selmers) so it was also a bit humbling and a wake up for me to take a fresh perspective on what I’m doing and why. Anyway, LOVE the sound you’re getting on the better sax , and I’m more than a little surprised that I like it that much! Think your analogy of it as like a mark VI is pretty right on, as the core sounds really focused to me in that same way. Anyway, great job Jay, digging it!
To be fair to the Better Sax, the intonation issues are me, not the horn. This thing plays as in tune as either of my Yanagisawa altos. Thanks for listening closely.
The Better Sax horn sounds so much better you should just have a giveaway for the Yani. Lol. In all seriousness though, they both sound great because the sound is mostly from the player.,but I agree the Yani just has a rounder and fuller tone.
To try to discriminate one from the other I would need better ears, listen on monitor speakers (not an iPhone) or hear you live. Like you, I am starting to wonder if I could have saved a shed load of £ and bought a low cost Sax rather than my Selmer Reference 54.
I like the sound of both, how they feel and respond would be important. I do prefer the sound of the Yani, but the BS (Better Sax, ha) has a sound that would work as well. My teacher would say "the further away you get from the embouchure the less impact things have on your sound". I wonder if you could magically have a solid silver neck on the BS would that be the key to making these more equal? Then, the neck would cost more than the entire original BS. I own a 62 Mark VI alto that played great when I first bought it, but later found a 5 digit Mark VI neck that completely transformed it into another level of greatness. Cool video...don't neglect that Yani too long.
Like a few others I have to admit that I heard a brighter more "cutting" sound from the Yani, with the Better Sax a bit darker, more resistant sounding. But the degrees of separation are very slight. Both sound great and you sound great. I'm not in the market for an Alto, I have three, but best of luck on this venture.
Hey Jay great video. I watched couple of times and can't tell the difference. Just one point I'd like to make, this "pro-horn expensive is better" theory came from pro players. Most people, myself included just want a sax, any sax to play with. I'm glad you're going on a different direction. I also think to be fair with Yanagisawa a 10 year review should be done, today both horns sound pretty much the same, but what about 10 years from now playing every single day? Another question would be, "why do people buy BMWs if Hondas are just as reliable?" status maybe? Great vid thanks.
I can't fast forward time, but I've never had a saxophone change its sound over time. That's not a thing. Players change a lot over 10 years, but a well maintained instrument does not. Status is a big part of expensive instruments and cars. I will admit that I got my silver Yanagisawas not because I needed them or was unhappy with my plain brass ones, but because I wanted the status symbol and could afford it.
@@bettersax Thanks Jay for your honest and great comment. As soon as Better Sax ships to Canada I will get one. The silver Yanagisawa in my opinion is the most beautiful saxophone I have ever seen, but the price is crazy.
Couldn't tell the difference. Just goes to show that we may still pay higher prices for name badges, although a lot of times it's not the equipment that makes the difference but the one who uses it. It's gratifying to know that a $600 sax can sound that good! Kind of justifies the purchase of my Jean Paul.
This vidio was right on time ! I have been looking at a AWO10 and have hesatated to pull the triger because of the $4,000 price tag, I play a yamaha YAS 62 III and it plays great but dont like the feel as much as the selmar horns. I have had some great horns in my life, a mark 6, 40 years ago .I have also had a bundy, king and conn all student line horns, I am going to try the better sax and see how it plays for me , thanks jay.
Thank you for doing this! I posed that exact question on your RU-vid clip announcing the BetterSax alto. As a Sax technician, you kind of answered the question as well. I suppose the pads and springs could be upgraded on a Better Sax Alto - or just donate one that's been heavily used and buy another new one. Anyway, I appreciate your honesty on this.
The springs are blue steel, the same as on pro horns. The pads are good quality from Pisoni. Not the same as top of the line horns, but they are still very good.
overall, Better sax is a real bang for the buck. It would be also better for my aching back. I'd love to get it and start to play sax again after I sold my Yani u900 years ago (for $900 LOL)
It's quiet hard to tell the difference, the Yani might be a bit brighter. You sound great on both, congrats. I find it awesome that there will be this option for someone who can't afford a more expensive instrument, which, I can imagine, is a lot of people. Well done 👏👏
The Yani is the one I would be happy listening to for hours but.. for the money the bettasax is as good as any of the other brands I personally have tried at over twice the money So clearly your bettasax is a very good deal
Am I the only one having concerns with both horns regarding the location of the mechanisms on the neck for the octave key? How do you avoid affecting them when installing or removing the neck? As for the sound difference, physics is physics. As long as both maintain similar internal dimensions and hole locations, the effects of the material and finish diminish. Jay drives home this point with his ending tale regarding a disguised student horn. To me, the key layout also affects the ergonomic comfort of the player and the resulting ease of play. Notice the position difference of just the bis key. So, depending on the joint between the distal and medial phalange, this one key layout may advantage different players differently. This reason alone turned me away from Selmer in favor of Buffet back in the 60s and 70s when I didn't like the wrist cramp created by the one layout. While I enjoy all this fascination with equipment, I'm all about the music being produced. Plus Raaf Hekkema produced some delightful tour-de-force recordings using his and my favorite Buffet-Crampon (Super Dynaction) saxophone.
They say it’s the player not the instrument, and while that is true, a more expensive instrument will help bring out the sound of the player, and will also do a much better job at guiding them to find their sound and improve more than a cheaper instrument.
Tu as parfaitement raison , Jay , de faire preuve de bon sens comme toujours . Il est indispensable de rappeler certaines vérités toutes simples comme celle qui dit que le prix très élevé ne fait pas toujours le meilleur instrument . Mais je crois que le manque de moyens de comparaisons et le snobisme de beaucoup de gens seront sans doute toujours plus forts que la simple vérité . Ceux-là ne voudront sans doute pas croire tout ce que tu viens de nous montrer . C'est dommage pour eux.......mais pas pour nous . Merci Jay , pour cette belle vidéo !
About the difference of both horns i totaly agree with what you feeled playing them and also different sections and the percentage of metal mixture like more alluminum or more copper....
The Yani has more fullness. I think that I could no doubt play several Better Sax horns and find one that has more fullness. Is there enough of a difference to justify price difference? Not for me, but I am also playing a Cannonball Vintage Reborn, which is a Taiwan horn made right. I like the Better Sax units.
......Greetings from blue Greece, thanks for sharing, ....... I was frustrated wich was the expensive one, but kept on hearing .... I was trying to keep excusing the "WO33" , for being cold and wide... .like it has his mouthpiece further back ..... the "Best" sounded like a Sweet Baby, .... PS, keep it up and alive ☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆
