If they really take their time and plan out the X-Men correctly, that could be a franchise as big as the current MCU unto itself. I don't think people realize how vast and expansive the mutant lore is.
@@mikewhoelse half of those movies weren't done right or didn't do justice to the characters though. If only the mutants weren't being absorbed into the MCU they would have so much freedom to tell engaging stories.
I agree and would even go further and say that the avengers aren't even needed for this phase or the next few phases. Their main focus should have been the the vast Xmen universe only going further. But,they're not going that route.
@@latishabuckner8231 the majority of film going public won't see it like that. It's just more X-Men and more comic book and people are getting bored of it. They don't make films for the small section of hardcore fans. It's a shame because we would get much better films alot of the time.
Why do people say Fantastic Four (2005) was a miss, when it was in fact such a box office success that a sequel was green-lit immediately? Yeah, it doesn't quite stand the test of time, but it was not a miss.
Marvel has spent the past two years showing us all what resting on one's laurels looks like. Instead of the X-Men and FF, they've been serving up cinematic shovelware like The Eternals and Black Widow.
I would say he did. In retrospect, it looks like he was taking the audience for granted. He really should have read the crowd better. It's one thing to say it's not gonna happen for a while, it's another to tease the viewers with cameos and getting their hopes up with Wandavision and Dr. Strange 2. I think one of the reasons people aren't going to the latest Marvel products (TV and movies) is that the audience is tired of being jerked around. If they were smart, they should have brought mutants in when The Snap was undone in Endgame, or at least hinted at them with people returning and having their X-Factors being activated. People were patient, and I think, he was arrogant.
I think they did wait too long. The beauty of the MCU was seeing all of these characters onscreen together for the first time. Cap and Tony gone makes me not care too much anymore. I wanted those Tony and Reed talks, I wanted those Cyclops and Cap discussions or standoffs. Now if they do an Avengers vs X-Men movie it'll be a later iteration. Or the Phoenix 5 vs. everyone etc. Things just don't look to be lasting as long as they have and they hype isn't gonna keep everyone so excited tbh.
John you are SEVERELY underselling the importance and prominence of the F4 in Marvel’s history. THEY are who saved Marvel comics in the 60s. And ever since then, they along with many of their supporting characters such as Dr. Doom, have been some of the pillars of Marvel for decades. Playing very prominent roles in some of Marvel’s most popular and important stories ever created. They are just as important and beloved as the X Men to comic readers
No. Fantastic 4 and X-Men are A list heroes, recognisable IP that even the general audience knows about. I think they are trying out some lesser known characters to see if they can get another long shot hit like Guardians. Knowing they have in there back pocket they can whip out the reserves. But I think they are trying to find a way to retroactively put the X-Men and fantastic four into the already well established shared universe. And to do that...Well you do timey whimy stuff, that will semi reboot the universe to introduce mutants and yet keep a semi established history.
I use to think there was some grand plan to introduce them. Then somewhere in the middle of phase 4 I realized they were just making it up as they go. So won’t be surprised if the X-Men have just been chilling in the Mansion this whole time when they’re finally introduced
That’s my main problem with how long it’s taken tbh. Like, all the characters I would’ve liked to see them interact with our kind of gone… or being replaced
The Marvel universe in the comics and the cartoons were never split up between companies, at least not that I remembered. It was always a shared universe. I think it would be an insult to their creators Jack and Stan to keep them separated like that.
I don't think so I'm fairly certain that the X-Men and Fantastic Four returning (more so the X-Men) is the only reason a lot of hard core MCU fans are still around
It's stupid to rush into X-Men and Fantastic 4. They can simply slowly introduce characters one-by-one like Avengers, they can bring in billions every year. Don't be the Fox and Sony throw everything in at one go, that's dumb!
My second favorite comicbook growing up in 1960's and 70's was FANTASTIC FOUR! Jack Kirby's art was truly CINEMATIC and almost doesn't need a home on the big screen, but so many epic stories to be told! And the thing that made it special was that they were a family and that is a UNIVERSAL theme. Hope one day we will get this right. Even none COMIC Geeks would love them.
John Campea judges Fantastic Four based on just a snapshot in time in the early 2010s instead of the rich history and popularity they had since the 60s to even Hickman's run in the 2000s. Fantastic Four would be HUGE as a movie and their rogues gallery is very popular. It would've really helped Marvel Studios if they focused on Fantastic Four sooner.
I think a break was needed for xmen because we were still so familiar with fox universe & there would be lots of comparisons. The x-men are still an Ace up the marvel Canon sleeve, it's just a case of how will they be introduced?
In the case of the X-Men, I think it made sense to put some distance between the Fox movies and their MCU debut. Those movies are a part of pop culture and even now, we have Prof.X in Dr. Strange and Hugh Jackman is about to reprise Wolverine in Deadpool 3. But letting some time pass before the actual reboot was a good idea
Marvel couldn't do a full-on XMen and F4 due to the right issues, old contracts, and other legal stuff. Plus, the Infinity War saga took a lot of time to build up.
No, it wasn’t a mistake at all, look guys, the simple fact of the matter is that it doesn’t matter which characters they use, what matters is the quality of the movies, a Fantastic Four movie isn’t gonna automatically be better than a Howard The Duck movie just because it’s a Fantastic Four movie, I mean we live in a world where an Ant Man movie is better than all 4 existing Fantastic Four movies, we live in a world where a Guardians Of The Galaxy movie is better than the Ghost Rider movies, see what I mean? These characters aren’t gonna blast new life into the MCU *just because* they’re these characters, good movies come first, so I say no, as long as you’re telling good stories it doesn’t make a lick of different which characters are being used
Yes, they did. They started believing their own hype and took the audience for granted, instead, pretending that everyone was James Gunn, and trying to make movies about some of the D List characters. I also think that the general audience doesn’t really want the fantastic four as much as they want Dr. doom, Galactus, silver, surfer, etc.
John claims no one knows the FF. Shang-Chi & Eternals are as obscure as Marvel gets. The X-Men are the most popular IP the MCU owns, and Fantastic Four have never been given the adaptation it deserved. Rush them in no, but drop more breadcrumbs leading into them, yes. The cow is being milked to death. Fiege need both of these IPs to get the MCU rocking again.
I agree with your statement. The current line up the only spiderman sparks any interest. Xmen and spiderman are the biggest ip marvel had until the avengers movie. It’s marvel’s own fault for discontinuing ff4 comics and regulating xmen to the background trying to push inhumans so lower their popularity on purpose prior to buying out fox
@Choua Vue I remember that. That was during the All-new All Different Marvel imprint. They heavily reduced the X-books in favor of pushing The Inhumans. They weren't even subtle about it. The book was called Uncanny Inhumans....LOL! I think that was also in response to FOX owning both IPs.
No they haven’t, if they started making shows and movies as soon as they got the rights people would slam them moan about how they aren’t taking their time for it to be a good story.
Yes because no one is going to care anymore about fantastic 4 or X-Men in time as phrase 5,6,7, and 8, 9 comes around. They're dragging their feet they could announced a cast for both by now just to give some type of excitement for tans.
We need F4 specifically for Dr Doom entrants correctly also for Spider-Man back bone with Reed, and F4 was being fazed out cuz Marvel didnt want anyone getting money for those characters just like X-men.
I wonder was the mistake here actually getting into producing TV shows for Disney+. While I loved one or two of the shows for the most part, since the beginning of the phase 4, when TV show started coming out of quality has dipped in a massive way.
Not at all. The MCU is on a downward trend, but people were still excited for Thor, Dr. Strange, Spider-man, even Ant-Man with the debut of Kang etc. Im still hopeful that GotG will be amazing. The problem is that the movie and the show quality, and the plan isn't as good, and all the best characters and actors that we love are gone or taking a back seat. They need to get back to adapting the original comic books period. I hope that the Fantastic Four and X-Men get back to the basics and don't try to be overly connected to the Avengers and the multiverse saga or whatever. We should understand that they are in the same world but I don't need a bunch of cheap references or cameos of other MCU characters. If the movies are good, the audience will return. They just want something that resembles the joy they felt before.
Phase 4 is after all the main characters from Phases 1-3 are pretty much retired or dead. Yeah they got closure, but there's no main characters left save for a few. The newer characters from the modern comics don't have the same appeal or impact unless they go out of their way to focus on them and there's tons of old fans who still want to see all their favorites interact with each other. Add that to taking so long that all the actors who portrayed them are getting older now and can't keep doing this crap even if it's for the fans. Patrick Stewart must be getting paid good I would hope.
The answer is "YES". Short and simple. This whole phase of Marvel movies since End Game, including all the Disney+ shows and excluding the Spiderman movie, have been not great. And some not very good at all. We actually needed the XMen and FF to bring some real storylines to the Marvel Universe. And even more importantly, some real "leads" of superheroes. Wanda-Vision, Loki, She-Hulk, Hawkeye (or Lady Hawk since it wasn't really about Hakeye), etc.. were rudderless in the sense that there wasn't a true, main superhero that we could get behind. If we had XMen with Wolverine, et al and FF with any of the four we would have had (if they could actually write a good/very good script) a quality of films we could get behind. I think having Daredevil and the Punisher now coming, even if only on Disney+, that will help. But if Marvel continues to go in a direction like She-Hulk, then it's Goodnight Irene.
Respectfully, asking this type of question lets you know how much this person DOESN’T know. They can’t just do what they want without their being red tape/ contracted things BTS that prohibit you from doing just anything. Pretty sure there is an allotted time they have to wait before they can/are allowed to bring them out. People are impatient….
I think the Fantastic Four could have been the team that lead the next big phase into Kang. They have the perfect make up of a small team that could use some help from others. Having John Krasinski as Reed in Dr. Strange was perfect and could have spun off from there with their own alternate universe origin movie, and eventually with them arriving in this universe in the fight with Kang. Would have solidified their place in the MCU as the "First Family" again, and shown that the MCU could exist without the big 3, Cap, Thor and Stark. The Avengers may have been gone, but the Fantastic Four is now here for your superheroing. It is a shame they did not use them to their advantage.
I think they were right to stick to their plan but I think if they move on them now, announce X-MEN soon, it'll excite the fans and interest will grow again. Especially for casual fans, they need more recognisable names and characters.
The MCU can change directions with the X-Men. Right now, itt looks o be the big baddie is Kang, but based on the trajectory of the plot, it may not be going in the right direction. I suggest that the MCU go with the X-Men as the catalyst series to introduce a new big baddie - Onslaught.
Just to address this problem of 'where have the mutants been during these cataclysmic events?' ... hiding, like they always have. There were always thousands or perhaps millions of mutants in the world in the comics, but during cataclysmic events, only the X-Men (and other X-Teams) were present because only they were mutant superheroes. The average mutant is a person with special abilities that they dont understand, often can't control, and hide from people. Chitari show up and start shooting people all over New York and I can make fire... sort of. You think I'm gonna stick around and try to fight them? No, I'm running like everybody else. You don't need to have a sudden surge of X-Genes to bring mutants into the story realistically. Just form the X-Men during a sudden surge in awareness of mutants. Where the hell was War Machine during Loki's invasion? That's a fairer question than where were Mutants, and it happened so fast, he could have been anywhere on a different mission. Same with Sokovia. Even Infinity War was a somewhat private battle that took place in Wakanda, a nation nobody can visit, and Endgame brought all the superheroes together that had fought in that war. Mutants didn't have any reason to be present if the X-Men haven't become a team yet.
He talked about the 5 year plan. The multiverse saga was supposed to be between 2021 - 2025 before the delays so it looks like they are about to join in after that.
Is everyone forgetting that what John just such a fun they actually did it in recent Doctor Strange movie. There was Reid Richards and there is our version the 90s version of Professor Xavier there on the council the illuminati council. Why wasn’t that brought up? Kevin Fiege did someone introduced him in our universe so to speak now what I feel which would’ve been even more clever, after quantum mania, and what Wonda causes a bigger problem with those ones in said universities.
This is why I hate how different companies split up the Marvel universe because they wanted to hang onto their money makers all to themselves. Poor Spider-Man is still stuck with Sony.
No, he made a bigger mistake with the hit and miss nature of the Phase 4 stuff that we got, because had that gone down better overall nobody would be asking this question. I think the MCU reached its very zenith with the ending of the Infinity Saga and anything that came after that was always going to face an uphill battle to sustain that bar or even raise it.....unfortunately they haven't helped themselves by flooding us all with far too much content far too quickly to where standards have clearly dipped and in some cases dropped significantly and that has resulted in questions now being asked. With the combined universe there is both upside and downside, great when we get the ultimate team ups but then it also makes it harder (and makes you think) when we see stand alone films....well where is such and such or why didn't they enilst 'X' to help them if it was such a world threatening event they were dealing with.
I think it's great that they didn't rush and do with the X-Men and Fantastic 4 characters, what they did with phase 4. They can learn the lessons from Phase 4's failures and take their time to make good movies and characters with the X-Men and Fantastic 4 stories. Go back to the basics of superhero filmmaking.
I want more adult super heroe movies like a black ops X-Force or Xforce/Deadpool movie, movies or streaming stuff like a Legion like show for New Mutants or Xfactor. Something fantastical and not the same old same old like another Dark Phoenix story. Maybe do Genosha, or Legacy Virus plot, so many good stories!!!! 😤
I would trade Thor love and thunder, Eternals, Shang chi, Multiverse of Madness, or any of the crappy shows they made for at lease ONE X men, or fantastic movie smh…
Honestly, the MCU lost me in phase 4. So many projects just didnt work. I really dont care anymore. Ant-Man 3 could be the last movie and I wouldnt care. Kang and Secret Wars? Meh.. Ill catch it on streaming later. Maybe.
Marvel canceled that Fantastic Four run because foxed still owned the movies and they didn’t want to release books along side those trash films. FF books typically sell decently John!
I think you're underselling the Fantastic Four. The reason they cancelled the Fantastic Four comic was because they wanted to starve the franchises that Fox owned. For the same reason, they weren't creating any new mutants, but were making all such characters inhumans instead. Also, the Fantastic Four was a top seller in the '60s when Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were at their creative height. The FF was the first Marvel comic, and its historical importance as the foundation of the Marvel Universe cannot be overstated.
Marvel fans waiting for the X-Men remind me of sports fans, every game they are hyped thinking their team will win and when they don't they just brush it off and say next time 😂 gotta respect the dedication if nothing else.
The X-men should be a separate timeline where they’ve been active this whole time. The Etwrnals should’ve been the same way. Put these stories in their own universes and let them cross over for big events.
So we just forgetting that they literally couldn't use them because of rights issues and they still can't use new actors for X-Men characters until 2025.. am I taking crazy pills?
@@TheTenaciousDog If they want to use any fox X-Men character, they are legal required to use the fox actors until 2025. Which is why any X-Men cameos in Deadpool 3 will be all fox actors.
I understand the points made in the video, particularly Feige's about having already laid out a long-term plan before the acquisition of Fox and the rights to X-Men and F4. Still, however intricate the plans for these big budget movies tend to be, we've been seeing studios make some pretty big changes to these plans at the last minute on a pretty regular basis recently. John has a point about the new characters not being mistakes, but many of the CHOICES of which new characters to introduce could stand a great deal of scrutiny. Regardless of whether or not they have turned out to be interesting or entertaining all on their own, characters like the Eternals, Shang-Chi, America Chavez, Ms. Marvel, etc., have not been choices indicative of a steady proverbial hand being behind the wheel making decisions based on more than just creative whim or, worse, social agendas that cater to the demands of a relatively small portion of the viewership that may or may not even be reliable customers for the brand. The Infinity Saga was supposedly of such great importance and consequence to the Marvel Cinematic Universe that it took eleven years (2008-2019) of feature films to do justice. Under different circumstances, the multiverse saga could be quite compelling, but in the wake of what Thanos did, it feels more like an excuse for creative chaos and decisions that have little if anything to do with actually entertaining audiences and serving the best interests of the brand. At least one of the next three phases should have been dedicated exclusively to the fallout and recovery efforts after "the blip." As soon as the Fox deal went through, activity should have slowed down and plans should have been adjusted so that the more logical as well as commercial introduction of characters like the Fantastic Four and some of the X-Men could have been implemented and creatively rationalized as "the moment" in the MCU mandating that new, yet still highly qualified people like Reed Richards and Charles Xavier be recruited and accepted into the fold to help what remained of SHIELD or SWORD or whatever the organization is clean up Thanos' mess. That is something that I believe was well within Marvel's ability to accomplish and would have made a lot more sense, with Reed Richards and Charles Xavier's X-Men occupying roles in the MCU not dissimilar to Iron Man and Captain America - with Richards serving and addressing the universe's scientific needs and challenges while Xavier and the X-Men addressed social issues like post-blip displacement and the struggles of aliens such as the Skrulls to assimilate and adapt.
I think fantastic 4 and mutants should rest until end of phase 6. And they can start building phase 7 with them. Its much better to get to know the main characters from the start of the story rather than shoehorning them towards the end of a "phase".
My opinion, and my opinion ALONE, but I don't think X-Men really fits into the MCU. I like it better its own property, separate from the rest of the Marvel Universe. Unfortunately, the Fox movies, with the exception of Logan and Days of Future Past, are not to my liking, personally (again, my opinion... doesn't mean the rest are "bad" movies). But I want X-Men to get an adaptation that is a little closer to what I personally enjoy about the comics. Yes, X-Men 's a superhero comic, but it's also about interpersonal relationships (the team playing baseball with one another, going for a night on the town, romance, etc). A lot of character development happens in those interactions, and I don't know that that fits into the MCU movie format. I don't really like X-Men/Avengers crossovers (I hated Avengers vs X-Men and Inhumans vs X-Men), and I worry those kinds of stories will dominate their tenure in the MCU. On a positive note, the X-Men comics that we love will always exist, regardless of what happens with the movies. It'll ultimately be fine.
The one thing that you've not touched on that really needs to be dealt with is the contract limitations for bringing back both of these properties. Those restrictions are partly a major factor as to why they could not be brought back sooner (without great expense).
I think it’s pretty clear that Secret Wars is gonna be bringing in characters and actors from a ton of legacy Marvel movies. And I feel by the end of that movie, all of these multiverses are gonna merge into one single universe. It obviously gets very messy with which history is the actual history etc but I don’t think Marvel is really gonna care. They’ll just ask us to go along with it, but basically it’ll just be that mutants have existed all this time but they were just in a different universe and now they’ll all be in the same universe. Simple, though not great, and not my favorite, but it’s simple enough that that’s just what they’re gonna do.
I also believe Rob’s theory because in everyone’s favorite movie ‘Thor:Love and Thunder” none of the characters were acting like themselves. The GOTG were tremendously “off”.
Phase 4 is I believe just too many eggs in one basket. I think as great as some of the Disney+ is it has sort of spread out the focus from just feature films. Which is so odd as with the Star Wars franchise it is the opposite where Disney+ has I think been better for that franchise.
You know now that I think a better story line than Kang would have been the Sentinels. You could have used that to introduce new characters along with the X-men. It would be a grounded story no multiverse or time travel. Use the snap to say it have people mutant powers or whatever. You could have the sentinels wiping out everyone. Because someone created them to protect the earth against another Thanos
I would not even put Logan or DOFP in the top 20 super hero movies. Logan is a good movie but not a good Xmen or Wolverine movie. DOFP had cool moments but was very uneven with its quality.
Marvel just got back the rights to even use Xmen or Fantastic four recently - and its already too late? ...they should have given us that a long time ago? xd
I think the wait is probably a good thing. Marvel knows people will go see the F4 and X-Men. I think they’re the trump card pull and Marvel has been saving them for when things get stale.
They either got something figured out, or they're still working on it!! I hope they got something figured out, considering a Fantastic Four movie is being worked on, right now.
Unpopular opinion but I think the inhumans & NUhumans were good replacement for the mutants in the mcu, narratively they are much easier to incorporate in mcu continuity and the humans hating on them make much more sens since they are the result of alien experimentation.
I feel the X-Men will be the future of the MCU. Before the MCU got started, the X-Men were Marvel's most popular property. They tried to lessen the popularity once the MCU got started and really tried to push their other titles. Now though, the X-Men can shine again. It is unfortunate that we won't get Avengers and X-men and F4 all together but who knows.. maybe a Capt. America/Wolverine movie from back in the war or something could happen. Who knows. But I don't think its "too late", I think it will revitalize the MCU... if done right of course. Hopefully they don't diverge too much from the comics. Oh and I'm with John in DoFP and Logan being great.. I would put them both in my top 4 or 5.
