Did Mobile Fidelity Lie?? The evidence examined (with a surprise at the end!) 

Yes, they do not use digital SOURCES. Once the analog master is converted to DSD for mastering, it's no different than passing an analog master through an analog mastering process.

Liars

Oooof, even this message seems merely deceptive, and again, not an all-out lie. Saying "there is no analog to digital conversion in our vinyl cutting" is technically true. Once they're cutting the vinyl, the analog to digital conversion has already taken place, so it's not taking place during that process. Digital to analog conversion would be taking place during this stage, but not the other way around. Very clever wording. Their use of the word "source" is interesting because they're being honest when they say that the original "source" material is the master tape. However, the material that is used to cut the lacquer is not the original tape. Again, when they say "we do not use digital sources[...]" that's technically true also. They've fallen under the category of labels who use intentionally misleading wording to sell their products. It's a shame, and the more I think about it, the more bothered I am by it.

@@Richbroth Whatever you want to believe; feel free to never patronize them again.

@@VideoArchiveGuy This is categorically a wrong statement. DSD conversion is a digital process. Sure a pulse density modulation "looks" analog to an untrained eye on a scope, but its still digital and produces artifacts and distortion at frequencies which are not present in the original analog source.

Agree 100%. Very premeditated and manipulative.

Great point! Now can we have a 45 RPM Abraxas repress MOFI? Just open up that laptop and fire up the lathe!

... and thereby set synthetic high prices because of the 'scarcity.'

Spot on

It is likely that they have strict contractual terms regarding how many copies they can release of any given title since they are working under licence from the owner. This will suit MoFi with regards to their pricing but perhaps the scarcity is not just down to their choice alone.

I like many digital records, but I hold a special place in my heart for true AAA reissues. That said, they missed a real opportunity to be advocates for DSD technology (which I think can absolutely rival analog) and their true cutting methods. People can disagree about analog vs digital, there is some level of subjectivity, and a LOT of variables involved, but hopefully everyone can agree that deliberately lying to sell product is wrong.

@vwestlife I am not sure about that. I have the feeling of they would have done it the audiophile community would be full of people claiming it sounds just like a MP3 file and MoFi records would never have received thos level of popularity.

Let's be honest. If they were honest, their sales would have been lower because far too many audiophiles don't care about the truth, only the fantasy they want to believe. They publicly state that even with total evidence on many topics, they will not change their mind. The only reason this one hits so hard is there is no possible way to explain it away. No amount of cognitive dissonance can compensate. It is impossible.

@@poetryonplastic ..... and yet audiophiles lie to themselves, and to others regarding cables, fuses, far too many audiophile electronic products, servers, streamers, you name it. Why is this any different? Oh ya, you can't explain this one away. The proof in this case is 100% irrefutable. So is ASR tests if you understand them, but hey, believe the lies you want.

I totally agree. They could have been the pioneers, and had the vinyl's been say $40-50 I and many other people would have still bought many records because at the end of the day they still sound great and that's what i'm actually after. I've only bought one MoFi record so i'm willing to live with my financial loss cause I love it, but people that have poured thousands into MoFi I can see why they'd be angry.

Totally agree☝️

Amen.

What companies that cut AAA don’t have the quality of MoFi?

@@poetryonplastic Without going into discussions, what I want to say is that being AAA does not necessarily make it better, the quality goes through many other factors that are later noticed in the final product. Regards and congratulations for your channel!

The Beethoven anecdote was interesting, but not fully correct. Maybe one should lookup the article about Beethoven and the origins of his name over at Wkipedia.^^

The 2008 may have been fully analog and they are talking about the more recent "One Step" release which now says "1/4" / 15 IPS analog master to DSD 256 to analog console to lathe" at their web site. The One Step was released in 2016.

I'll have to check my airline miles!

Much appreciated John!

Wait, another Michael? 🤣

Not one person will or can tell the difference. Transferring to DSD is a good thing and a no brainer to get the best possible transfer. These guys are out of their minds and way to deep in the hi-fi trash

@@Limit5482 Generally that's true, especially when you are listening on typical systems in typical listening environments.

How were they dishonest? They never claimed they were all analog, people ASSUMED it.

@@VideoArchiveGuy so are you saying that they had no idea that people would think the are still cutting all analog, because they aren't that stupid and neither am I. Even if they had no intention to mislead people at least 1 person involved in the process would have taken a step back and said "hey guys, if you were a consumer and didn't know our complete process and you look at all our marketing and in relation to our history would you think that we are cutting all analog or would it be clearly obvious that we make a DSD transfer and then go from there?" Then what happened? The owner comes in the room and says "nothing that was just said ever leaves this room. As far as anyone knows we never said it was 100% analog and that's our story. Right? Everyone a team player here?" or he says "hey you are right. I never realized that it's really misleading if these are all analog or not. But it can't be helped. What can we do about it. I'm sure people will know we use a DSD file. Alright, good work everyone. See you at Hooters. I'm getting the first round!" Right, they were never even a tiny bit dishonest. I hope you aren't a lawyer, because your clients are screwed.

@@trippmoore Let's see, they are bad because people ASSUMED things about their process. Sorry, not a lie, not their fault. They never SAID their process was all analog from master tape to LP, but if you BELIEVED it was, that's ON YOU.

If it's from dxd they can make as many copies as they want as well.

This is an example of how they are misleading because it is a perfect replica of the lacquer that was sourced from the original Master but the source for the lacquer is a DSD file

@@RocknRonni my point is that it goes beyond misleading into simply being a lie once they explicitly state the *lacquer* is sourced *directly* from the tape because there's no room left for obfuscation. That language just can't be true if there's a DSD step in between.

@@RocknRonni Not a "perfect replica" as it will have digital artifacts from both the DSD and when they convert to PCM for editing, will have even more digital artifacts and will no longer be pure DSD.

Weasel wording. Think like an evil attorney. "Sourced directly thru a DSD hi-res copy of the analogue mastertape."

Fremer and Esposito, while I appreciate their knowledge and contributions to the hobby, are damaged by past arguments to the point that their ability to be objective is non-existent. At least on issues where both parties are involved.

@@herosquadlivemusic4815... Esposito is a much more level-headed guy than the other two Mikes. He doesn't flip out and throw tantrums like they do. He's forthcoming and honest, and if he makes a mistake, he has no problem owning up to it. The other 2 are back stabbers and opportunists. I used to really like Fremer and Ludwig but they've both turned out to be slippery weasels.

I came here to essentially say this, but Mr.K (with whom I totally agree), Paul RS and a number of the top listed comments say all that is needed. This is the first time I watch your channel but not the last; poetryonplastic just gained a new subscriber. Very impressed. Well done!

People misled THEMSELVES.

The unit economics don't work that way. Does the licensing fee change? Nope. Does the cost of manufacture, distribution or marketing change? Nope. Do they spend less time perfecting and tweaking the audio? Nope. In fact, arguably, they spend more with a 256xDSD capture. Is it still a one-step? Yep. Did the Nightfly One-Step cost less because it was a digital recording? If not, why weren't you outraged then?

A Capitalism dilema

imagine paying 120 bucks for something that dosent exist: any hearable difference

Totally agree too, just like the other comment from sonidosanto

Get class action out of the equation here because not all the possible plaintiffs are situated in similar conditions. In fact, a very large number of people have said they don’t care because the records sound good. Even if a legal action was presented, it would not go too far because of the real harm part of the test for liability under torts. Complaints with the FTC usually result in cease and desist orders, which force companies to correct their false or misleading advertising and obligation to inform people who brought the products that falsification or misleading information was used and the inclusion of new disclaimers in future marketing. The FTC has the power to issue fines but this issue to them may not be as serious or systemic as those of privacy breaches for example. On the other hand, this does not only affect the consumers, it could also involve the competition if one of the other reissue labels can prove they had losses or did not sell well due to the unfair and deceptive practices of MoFi/ MD which secured better sells for them as a result. MoFi’s issue has the potential of causing industry-wide damage but those would have to be proven as well, but can be prevented if companies properly disclose the source and their mastering techniques when making vinyls. A real problem could happen if people that bought these records stat going back to the record shops asking for their money back because the product is not what they were hoping or lead to believe that it was. This will in turn force those retailers to revert back to MoFi/MD and present cases of their own and then the issue start’s snowballing to the point that it has to be address legally. But this is very unlikely to happen. As we can see many of us do not know what are we going to do going forward, just as this gentleman also expressed. End of story, the worst thing that MoFi/ MD can face is the implications to the business in terms of brand name and reputation of being perceived as untrustworthy. But the consumers have not decided to do something about it and MoFi knows it can get away with it without even making a formal apology. This will be the case as long as the records they put as back in stock get sold out in a matter of minutes, most recently this happened with the Bob Dylan’s Nashville Skyline LP. Very unfortunate that consumers are not willing to sacrifice their collection habits to hold a company accountable for their unfair and deceptive practices.

Agreed. Anyone actually doing AAA is practically breaking their neck to make it CLEAR.

So you don’t own any? Then why even weigh in. They consistently sound better than the vast majority of pressings. Your loss.

My answer would be "Why should we? They also don't tell you which pressing plant was used, which shift pressed each record, which press was used and who the press operator was. Audiophiles might WANT that information too, but it's not going to happen.

@@alexbaker5280 BINGO....

@@VideoArchiveGuy yes, but the entire appeal of the company is that they say the cut a lacquer from the first generation master tape. They brand themselves as such and it was to set them apart from record labels that required the use of a production master (a dub of the master tape). Generation loss is not inconsequential in analog and having a record pressed from directly from the master tape was the heart of what they said they were doing. Informing the customer of the production process was the way they got people to pay more money for their reissue. You didn’t get to hear what it sounded like until after you paid for it.

@@dconsmack They do, they just go through a DSD step as part of the process of making the lacquer. Given some audiophiles, I'm shocked they aren't demanding to know whose cables are used to connect the tape deck and the ADC and complaining MoFi didn't disclose that either.

How is that a lie? Where do you think the sound on the DSD master came from? Ding ding ding - the ORIGINAL MASTER TAPES. There is no lie in that statement.

@@VideoArchiveGuy by that logic every single copy is sourced from the mastertape. So a 4th generation copy would be original master recordings as well. Once you make a copy/transfer its changed. Period. The source for the vinyl is not the master its the copy of said master. Copies are imperfect, digital or analogue, information is lost. They clearly lied. Ever write a school paper? There's primary and secondary sources. A transfer is a secondary source. It's not the same. And mofi knows this which is why they were never transparent about the digital. They spell out their whole process but do not mention digital transfers because they know it's not the same nor what customers want. If I take the original US constitution and photocopy it is my photocopy the actual constitution? No. If you bought an original painting and it's a print would you be upset? But it looks the same! But it's not of the same quality nor provenance. You like the beatles? Say you buy a 1st state butcher cover and get a 3rd state recovered in return. Are you gonna be upset? I sure hope so. They maliciously lied. Here's a video from 2017 of one of the masterers stating its all analog. What's your excuse now? How could you defend such behavior? They're scammers. They know AAA demands a higher price and provenance and thus pretended theirs was AAA. If they weren't malicious liars they would be championing dsd from the getgo not lying. Here's the video. There's no disputing it now. They're liars and I hope a lawsuit starts up. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-z-td3Uk5TIQ.html

@@simonemurray1345 Good, I'll laugh when the issue either gets laughed out of court, or drives MoFi into bankruptcy so there are no more releases of these titles at all. 🙄

Whether or not MoFi lied, they certainly misled their customers at every turn. They knew what they were doing. They knew their image would be tarnished if they mentioned “digital”. All they mention is analog, over and over.

@@VideoArchiveGuy you walk into a room with a lady, she turns off the lights, and you get a great BJ. Except the BJ was performed by a dude. Did you deserve to know before hand? Was it a lie? Maybe you don’t care, but you deserved to know.

Good thing this isn't food then.

Yes! I’m *done* with FauxFi and Music Direct. I spent so much hard earned money to buy what I thought was the pinnacle of the analog format. There’s too many other companies out there that have amazing products, integrity, and treat their customers with respect.

FauxFi lol

You should pursue a criminal case. It might go like this - Audiophile: Help I have been defrauded by buying the best sounding copy of this record possible; one meticulously engineered by the best audio engineers in the business. District Attorney:What is your problem then? Audiophile: It wasn't analog! District Attorney: GTFO of my office.

If anything was recorded in the 80s ,much of it could be digitally recorded anyways like Eye In The Sky by Alan Parsons, it was recoded on analog tape but was mixed and finished in the studio on Digital Tape in 1981 ..If MOFI has a DSD Vinyl Album of that Title and they do, it is totally legit even though the original digital master was possibly coped to a second analog master for it to be used for tape and vinyl copies to be sold ,a digital master for a analog copy still is not cheating or misleading

They have history. Espo repeatedly has questioned Fremer’s integrity. Espo did a good job, but let’s be real. MOFI knew their gig was up and they went with a safer voice (Espo). to state their processes. I like Espo (I really do), but he’s not as knowledgeable on engineering as Fremmer.

@@discustank We’re all entitled to our own views. I personally like both. I do think this predates the modi matter. Fremmer questioned Espo on his false claim about lacquers being over priced, a rip off and of poor quality (they turn to dust over time). Fremmer disputed this, showed proof by playing old lacquers, showing the sound and stating that none of his turned to dust. He also said, it’s up to the public whether to buy something or not and it’s irresponsible to make false claims. Espo responded by saying Fremmer was in the pocket of vendors and has never had any integrity with respect to being honest. That kind of talk was out of bounds I like Espo, I really do and I’m happy he got the mofi interview. He did a decent job, but given what they revealed and how coy they were, clearly he was being respectful to them by. It pushing or he realized that they selected him to go public given the in house person who leaked rumours that are now being confirmed. Fremmer heard em earlier and asked but got no reply. As part of the selection, he took it easy on em (fair) and has since (last night) explained why he treated the interview accordingly. That’s fair, but Fremmer was justified in his comments and he has never questioned Espo’s integrity. Personally, I hope they come together and do more things shared. We’d all benefit from their knowledge and passion. Fremmers a good guy and so is Espo. The viewers have to turn it down. Nothing is ever one side or the other

@@deeg8849 I see. I suppose put two people in a room and they'll find something to disagree about!

Let's make an important distinction - Mofi's tape scanning process is 4xDSD, not a consumer format, that is 256 times the resolution of CD. The claims by people that vinyl sounds better than "digital" are talking about comparing vinyl cut from lower resolution digital files to vinyl cut entirely from tape. That's not a claim they can hear the difference between AAA vinyl, and every digital process, including some a digital format they never even knew existed.

They legally cannot press up more. Licensing agreements ALWAYS include run limits, but I agree that MFSL can keep their remastered copy for a future licensing run.

Huge credit to Mike for a lot of this, but yes they picked the person who was the least experienced with these types of situations. According to Fremer, MoFi told him no, they couldn't come.

Good observation on the "oh yeah" response. Very telling. Also the cynical and smug approach they took around all the more serious questions like that one.

@@poetryonplastic Agree, Mile was fantastic to even go there and tackle this topic. No issue with him whatsoever. It's just so obvious that a journalist was not permitted a leg into this.

@@poetryonplastic Angel Dust is a digital recording to begin with,

Also the Kevin Gray cut of Marvin Gaye has a digital component as well. A lot of blatantly false advertising with that one. Sounds good but don't believe the hype (sticker).Also, that particular record sounds great but the pressing consists of crushed charcoal.

My understanding is that the one-step refers to the cutting to pressing process. Standard process is a 3 step process. I think what they do prior to actually cutting the lacquer is the main concern since that is where the deception lies.

If it's any consolation I have a lot of these same albums on mfsl SACD, the vinyl does sound better to my ears. I honestly have no issue with the actual products, they sound great, it's the lying I'm pissed about.

I double up on their sacd's, one to play, one remains sealed...at least with sacd, they can't lie about its digital quality.

@@poetryonplastic Good to hear your experience with their SACD and vinyl for comparison. If you haven't watched it, I highly recommend searching RU-vid for the video from PSAudio where Paul M. states that they have found that their 100% DSD recorded music released on their Octave record label sounds better cut to vinyl vs. straight DSD, at least on their DACs.

This is exactly how I feel. I’m so pissed.

If it makes you feel better... at least the vinyl benefits from the 4X DSD... as SACD is only 1X DSD

Oh brother, so much wrong here. I empathize, however. One thing of note: as the purchaser, I determine why buying the audiophile physical medium is valuable to me. It may be the sound, but ALSO the process, or packaging, or whatever. We decide, individually, why it has value. This is why honest marketing is so appreciated.

+1. The only reason I ever bought a One Step was the "Collector" value current and future with the assurance of limited production and the promise of the best sounding option of a given title from a 100% Analog production chain promised and stated by individuals from a company I thought I could trust. These guys "Mofi" best come up with a plan pretty dang fast to resolve this with their customers or I think lawyers are gonna get involved.

@@discustank I agree. Class Action likely already in the works. I predict MOFI Bankruptcy by 2024

@@discustank Lawyers should get involved. Class action lawsuits work.

I think that's the position I will likely find myself in in the future.