I spent years trying to get as transparent, clean & linear sound as possible... Turns out it's useless unless you only listen to perfect recordings. It's really tricky strike a balance between perfect audio replication and it sounding pleasant most of the time with most albums.
Great setup you got. I can tell you are an incredible audiophile (lol I literally have the same setup - what’s your source and amp?). Heck even the legendary Mag 3.7i at $9K seems cheap compared to this. It’s close to the colossal 20i at $20K.
Sticking with my humble 2.2 LRS/REL/Bryston/MusicalParadise/Ares12th setup. Perfect for my tastes in acoustic music & jazz thru Reggae. Having a great time learning how to better LISTEN to orchestral music (with YT channel "Inside the Score" coaching;-) Time to upgrade the brain! 🎵🎶🤫🎶🎵
I heard a pair of these in my local hifi dealer in Toulouse, they bring a lot of "air" and "space" to the music quite remarkable. Really enjoyed them, but sadly out of my budget. If I win the lottery I know where I will be heading..
Glad you had an opportunity to listen to them. I own several Magnepans. These being $17K… they go up against the amazing $9K Mag 3.7i and near the price of the legendary $20K 20i.
Sadly I also have to keep buying Lottery tickets. I require the ultimate custom designed listening room with proper conditioned AC POWER. This really means a custom built home, way before the hi-end system.
I've been very impressed with this company and their speakers. It's very nice to have a proper review. Here's hoping you're able to review PSAudio's new speakers which combine planar magnetic with traditional bass drivers.
With my Maggies I actually find different locations works best for different albums. Moving closer to the back wall tightens the bass for good solid low end sources. But fatter music like them out further. They get fatter and richer. Slight rotations moves the image up and down... System frequency response depends on distance between them.
I had the chance to listen to them at the High End in Munich. They sound absolutely terrific. I won't throw around superlatives at this point, just listen to them by yourself, you will not regret it.
I switched from MG 3.7 to DP107. Despite not going as low in bass as 3.7 they are better at every other aspect, but I wouldn't recommend them to anyone who doesn't use dsp. I feel like theirs stock frequency response is messed up. I hope they got it better at DP140 and up. I wish them luck because their speakers are amazing
Thanks for the technical insight on these Steve, esp. the dual magnet planes. To your (and @glenncurry3041) point of adjusting planar speakers, I got a pair of Magnepan MG IIIa in 1986 and had them rebuilt in 2009. Over all those years until now they have been in almost every conceivable position in my listening room. Surprisingly one of the most interesting placements was to put the "edge" of the speakers literally in the two corners of the room, with the other edge pointed to the listening seat at 45 degrees. Both front and rear phases were reflected from the two walls at the corner (no direct sound from the diaphragms). Vocals and instrument placement were holographic. Both aurally and visually the speakers disappeared. The only compromise is the soundstage is too broad for studio recordings, although perfect for live recordings like "The Allman Brothers Band Live at Fillmore."
@@Josh442 From what I read, the Rooze configuration is not what I'm describing... put the thin edge of the Maggie literally in the corner of the room, or as close as you can get it, given the length of the feet. The other edge is 45 degrees from either wall, pointing to the listening position apex. There is no direct radiation toward the listener's ears, only what's reflected from the walls. Unfortunately my wife prefers a more conventional placement 😞.
@@bellesonllc That seems to be one variant of Rooze, anyway -- the idea of Rooze is that you're listening on edge, in the dipole null, so the only sound you hear are the reflections. But Rooze isn't necessarily right in the corner.
I had the original Carver Amazing speakers, dipoles that had ribbons for highs and mids. Whatever their flaws, they had excellent soundstage depth and pretty good imaging.
I only heard them once, at a show. Powered with Carver’s gigantic tube amp. They were genuinely amazing, by far and away the best at the show. One of the most memorable speakers I’ve ever heard.
I have two pairs of Carver AL-III+ speakers. Ribbons have a presence that is amazing. I keep thinking of replacing them with something else. There are box and planar speakers that may be better but the Carvers are so good on vocals I can’t justify parting with them.
I was very impressed when hearing them during Capital Audiofest. I kept coming back and what struck me most was the "immediacy" of the bass. I was told while the principle is like Magnepan, the tension of the diaphragm is less allowing for more displacement. If you have the opportunity give them a good listen.
I've seen the Kronos Quartet and Phillip Glass, but the musical combination sounds like it could be a winner. I'm looking forward to finding it, I'd love to hear it on these speakers, but I'll have to be happy with my more modest set up.
These are NOT for me! 😮….I need warm and forgiving…also out of my budget…but I love to learn about all things audio…so I stayed with you all the way thru. Thanks for making me more aware! 👍🏼
Mr Guttenberg, Not far of my town in Brittany (France) live a craftsman who resurrected an old French technology from the 60s: the “Geco” cell. I was lucky enough to be able to listen to its speakers which come in the form of panels with rows of aluminum cells with polystyrene in front. I would define their sound as precise like other kinds of panels, but with more "body", "material" and something to appeal to any great sound enthusiast. The name of the company is "orthophase".
The point is, every instrument, live event, recording or venue has its own 'sound' fingerprint. And then there is your own ears and favorite 'taste' in sound preferences... It is tempting to go look for the hard honest truth in this 'reality' of finding convincing sound illusion to be able to step into the holographic 3d stage we earn for. As a musician myself i think i can handle the adoption to the "minds eye" to appreciate the edges of live music. Realising that most, otherwise very fine speakers make more of a general (box) sound is harder to except. Some horns can do the trick but with lots of effort and the same endurance on the ears and patience! That makes the electrostats (OB speakers too) so convincing and alluring, particularly as a rabid DIY cave-man, lol. Great to see you're still here on YT, Steve! Happy ny and best wishes for everyone!
You got me thinking when you described how tricky they are to place. The upper half of a room usually has less sonic obstruction than the lower half. I picture a room twice as long as it is wide with the speakers mounted from the ceiling, on the long centerline, spaced so each can face directly toward one of the opposite corners, either diagonally or either end of one of the long sides. this would make the room the resonant chamber driven by the Dyptyques. Far beyond my financial abilities so thanks for the introduction!
I had a pair of Zingali speakers for nearly 20 years which sounded magnificent with well recorded acoustic music and jazz, but harsh and muddy with loud, busy, poorly recorded rock music. So eventually I found I was listening to music which suited the speakers, and avoiding stuff I loved but didnt sound great. Now I have Wharfedale Elysian 4s and I have yet to find a genre or recording which they don't like. They have reinvigorated my musical life. No speakers are all things to all men, but I think a good speaker should cope with most genres and recordings well. Peoples tastes change and your speakers should be able to come along with you.
You know in that movie 'Once Upon A Time In The West" Jason Robards hears a gun go off and cuts himself whilst shaving. Your music didn't suit the speakers, it suited the price of your system and you bought a low down Wharfedale and Hey! Things were looking up. Yeah but those Zingali speakers were looking down at your amplifier and its sources, it wasn't the music - it was the low price of the reproducing equipment. You bought speakers that flattered your miserable electronics, you know? Heads Up!
@@generalcurtis3lemay180 Well I was running a £5000 streamer, a £7500 DAC and a £6000 Allnic amp with £1000 KR valves, so not entirely convinced by your argument. The Zingali speakers were price appropriate, as are the Wharfedales which, I would argue, at £7000, punch above their weight. In Scotland we would politely suggest that you are "talking through a hole in your head".
@@jimfarrell4635 No ... didn't you know that in the United States, Zingali carried a JBL logo? Are you saying JBL are in the same league as Wharfedale? I mean Kr valves don't cost £1000, they're Czech and you know, you'd get a set for £10. You know I'm not so sure it's me that is talking through a hole in his head. A £6000 Allnic amp? You know just any old Allnic amp? Zingali don't use tubes, neither do Wharfedale, they're not tube speakers.
@@generalcurtis3lemay180 Generallissimo. You are a very confusing bloke. I did not know Zingali and JBL had an arrangement. Thats interesting, but those speakers are very different designs from the Italian Zingali horn speakers I am talking about. I don't think they were ever sold here. I had Zingali Overture 4 floorstanders. They cost about £5000 and lasted me nearly 20 years. As to JBL and Wharfedale, both are venerable brands and make speakers from budget to mid/high end. Its nonsense to say one brand is better than another. Its the individual speakers that count. In the UK most folk would regard JBL as a budget brand, because until recently they didnt market their higher end speakers here. As for tube speakers ? What on earth are you talking about ? I said nothing about tube speakers. I have an Allnic Single ended triode 300b T1500 tube amp. I also have a nice upgraded Kinki Studio solid state, a DK Design Reference solid state, a PrimaLuna tube amp and just acquired a couple of Sansui vintage pieces. KR make some of the best 300b tubes on the planet and, depending on spec, a matched pair do cost nearly £1000. If you can get a pair for a tenner, I salute you. I sound like a twat listing all this stuff and what it cost. It's 30 years of collecting, buying new, ex dem and second hand gear, trading up when funds allow. But to suggest my front end is crap and thats why I had issues with The Zingalis is nonsense, especially when you had no idea what my system consisted of. Of course, you may just be a troll, in which case, good job. Consider me trolled. Or have you been peaking through my windows and saw my Sanyo midi system ? Damn.
NICE! I saw and heard the Diptyques at the Montreal Audio Festival last year - IMHO, they were the best of show - great to look at and most importantly, great to HEAR :-)
There is no perfect speaker or amp, just different! I have a McIntosh c50 preamp, very quiet and neutral but it has the EQ when I want it. I also have a McIntosh mc352 SS amp, very lush sounding but there is detail if you listen for it. I also have a Carver Crimson tube amp which makes everything sound good, and finally two class D mono amps that really let you hear everything, good recording are good, bad are bad. I find myself using the McIntosh most of the time. But just to keep the boredom at bay and keep my pocket book healthy, I switched every now and again just to keep it fresh. Right now Klipsch La Scala’s and restoring a pair of AR 5 three ways from the late 70’s
You need a TEF analyzer to get the set up right. Why a TEF, because you can look at the direct sound the reflected sound and the ambient together or separately. A TEF allows you to do it right instead of just guessing.
Steve : your review is spot on. I have listened to these wonderful speakers on different occasions. They do certain things very well. But it’s indeed not a speaker for someone with an eclectic taste in music. And it’s a speaker that indeed makes imperfect recordings sound awful ! The polar opposite of a Cornwall.
Steve loved the video, eminent technologies Lft8b's does a better job for little money! They just need the crossover improved to make them a giant killer, not costing 18k
Conic speaker technology is what I consider to be mature technology, with few new breakthroughs expected in oncoming years. However I am fascinated with planar magnetic technology and its use in sound reproduction, and hope to delve into the emerging realm of photoacoustics (production of sound with light) as new breakthroughs are made.
Looks nice, I like magnepans fine and always feel like the quality is lack luster. Good to see higher quality panels in the market. I am more of a horn guy (JBL 4367) so I alway feel panels lack dynamics to my ear. Do these have more snap/transients than other panels?
It's entirely different, but you gain so much elsewhere. Dipoles don't 𝙥𝙧𝙚𝙨𝙨𝙪𝙧𝙚 pulse the room like typical monopole box speakers. Sound 𝙞𝙣𝙩𝙚𝙣𝙨𝙞𝙩𝙮 is the product of sound 𝙥𝙧𝙚𝙨𝙨𝙪𝙧𝙚 and particle 𝙫𝙚𝙡𝙤𝙘𝙞𝙩𝙮. Dipoles throw more a velocity dominant intensity rather than the pressure dominating that's typically experienced. The strong attribute; due to out of polarity figure eight radiation characteristic, the listener experience has elevated direct sound vs. negative room effects. They don't light up a room's resonances like a monopole pressure source.
@@FOH3663 I have spend time with the magnepan 3.7. They are nice but come up short when asked to play Metallica at high levels. Amazing with Gregory Porter…. Maybe just a second system for me. I am often more in to mood for rock than soft music these days.
Two sets of speakers serves me well. I love my Maggie’s for acoustic jazz. If I want high SPL, I switch to my old EV Eliminators designed for stage use .
I own a pair of Apologee duetta 's I use them with an older krell ksa 80 . It's a shame this company is no longer around. I also own a pair of B&W 802s . Which I use with various amps such as Threshold. Spectral and sonic frontiers . I like your take on ribbons I prefer my Apogees hands down but at high volume the B&W s are an amazing speaker. I haven't heard your speakers but I would be surprised if they bettered the appogee's made in America. Your take on the Apogees would be interesting .90 percent of the time I listen to my turntable of course . I prefer older recordings . You are the most knowledgeable and credible person I've watched on you tube so far . Cheers !
Problem with these things is they make room reflections way more of an issue. So you need diffusion and absorption to get rid of room problems. Unless accuracy isn't so much of a concern to you.
That's a problem with ribbon tweeters, or specifically with tweeter line arrays; the beaming means that if you are above or below then the highs really roll off. I noticed this with my Carver AL-III+ with 48" long ribbon that are even with the top at 6'. Even lying on the sofa, instead of sitting or standing one would experience roll off. Ideally and in IMO, ribbon tweeters should be 6' tall starting from the floor. Either a single 6' long tweeter, or one can have an array of small rectangular or round tweeters that extend 6' from the floor.
Had a pair of Apogee Divas back in the day. also had the DAX crossover. MARVELOUS speakers..... First with Marl Levinsons 20 and 23's, then with Audio Research Classic 150's and 60's, and finally some PASS Aleph 1' and 2. Wonder how they'd compare
IOW if extreme accuracy of reproduction, exposing the best and worst, is not for you, and you want dynamics regardless of the recording and great low level listening, get horns!
I definitely wouldn’t say that having to play with a speakers positioning so much is a sign of a good speaker…the fight against a radiation pattern that is extremely narrow at higher frequencies is IMO the primary weakness of panels
Exactly right. Good speakers with good frequency response and even dispersion should not need fussed with too much. Uneven speakers you will chase all day every day around the room.
compared to other planar magnetics fullranges 17K , is not even that expensive. yes allot of money.. but the rest is even more expensive ! good job Diptyque !!!
I'm sold. I'll have one pair of these French magneto panels at one end of my long rectangular room for my best quality L.P.s, Place my 360'deg swivel listening chair in the middle of the room (or a more socialable bespoke made 360' centred swivel sofa) & 1 pair of my current box speakers at t'other end of the room for my lower quality L.Ps. 2 of my stereo valve power amps or a s/state & valve mix, Oh, & a pile of money to pay for the panels & the swivel sofa for domestic harmony is all I'll then need, sorted
Saludos Steve, ¿Como se comparan de la manera más objetiva posible los DP 140 mki, con los MG-1.7?, te agradecería tal comparativa, abrazos, desde Bogotá, Colombia
I had a pair of Mandapam speakers powered by a BGW 120(I think) and a Dayton Wright SPS MK 3 with a Connoisseur Turntable and Empire cartridge. I thought it was great. This was back in 10975*76
Now...as a lifelong admirer and now later in life as an owner of Magnapan speakers...not the new ones, but the vintage MGllas(which i believe are superior sounding to the new ones, with a sub, of course) now....that all leads to my question. Do the french really do it better?? With MDF for 17,000.00??? Or do they do it better BECAUSE they cost 17,000.00? Many people in this hobby believe that if they spend more money, it must be better, right? My contention is that, im sure that the crossover is superior, but...there are outboard crossovers available for Magnapans that allow for bi amping and highpass filters on amplifiers that allow for effective tailoring of sound, and good preamps(like my vintage SAE 2100L) that provide for subouts, that and the superior construction of the magnapans i e. Real wood, attractive fabric, overall beauty...almost a centerpiece of your room decor. All that said, you could do all of that, even at the high end of the spectrum, including sending the vintage magnapans back to the factory for rebuild, you still come in at a lot less than the price of these speakers. You say yourself that on less than optimally recorded music(which comprises most of our recods, which you well know) i would take a heck of alot of convincing to make me believe that these should even be a consideration. I would really like an honest opinion of those parameters.
Steve did you see that Jim Winey the man behind Maggies just passed on? With this video you just did do you think you would be interested in doing an overview of your history & experience with this type of speaker & maybe headphones as well?
At $17k you'd be crazy not to audition Sanders Sound Systems Model 10e. These are a thoroughly engineered hybrid electrostatic speaker system and I know Steve doesn't like them. I'm guessing he's never heard this system properly setup in his own listening space. They are end game for me.
Thank you again for an interesting informative review. Talking about the resolution of your pap duets, have you ever considered trying the Voxativ Field coils in them? I have them in my Quintets and they are wonderful. Smal room btw. All the best, Denis
I just had a chance to listen to a pair of Diptyque with Accuphase class A monoblock. To be honest, I prefer the much much cheaper Magnepan 3.7i with classAB monoblocks.
Are you saying a bright recording will be extra bright or just that the speakers are very transparent and it's easier to spot issues with a recording compared to a Maggie.
You know just to help out ... Maggie speakers are downmarket and NAD is a suitable brand, it's a 'value' brand, the M23 is a great Maggie amplifier. But ... these French ones are upmarket and for better rooms and more distinguished buyers than lower priced brands. I mean ... you should see how the other half live, they have places that Maggies just wouldn't be allowed into.
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac Really? I find it to be more of a problem with older recordings like 80's pop music or early CD "remasters." Granted, I don't listen to much contemporary mainstream pop at all. I think this is what Dr. Toole calls the "circle of confusion." How do we know if the recording is the problem or the speaker combined with room acoustics is the problem? They could even be compounding each other. In the absence of full spinorama measurements on the speaker (not sure how this even applies to dipoles or if Harman's research dealt with them at all) we might compare to a known "neutral" speaker, like recent KEF or JBL designs.
I had a pair of Magnepan 3.5. After a few years the glue that binds the coils to the mylar started to loose its properties and eventually the coils were unglued. Although I loved those speakers I could not send them to Manepan for repair. Does the Diptyque has the same problem?
Hello. I'm owner of DP107, previously had MG 3.7. Diptyque surpass Maggies in terms of build quality - there is no glue on diaphragm, instead coil is printed on the foil. Looks neat, diaphragm is lighter for sure and foil with coil are one uniform thing
Off topic, but just saw a Washington Post article called “He spent his whole life building a $1 million dollar system. The real cost was unfathomable”. A guy who turned his living room into a concert-type hall, and the toll it took on his family. I see that Steve shared the documentary of the film this guy made - “One Man’s Dream”. It was done a while ago but this article just popped up on my feed.
@homerjones3291 - I saw a video on that a while ago. He did a really good job on those speakers. They sold at action for 10K each... Talk about the deal of the century!
On a related note, Jim Winey (founder of Magnepan) apparently passed away today :( There is a post about him from a credible member in the planar section of Audio Asylum.
Yeah :( Longtime Maggie owner here (currently 3.7i) and went over to Audio Asylum to see if there were any comments on your review of the Diptyques. Needless to say, not what I expected to see.@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac
The closest thing to these in my case are the Monsoon FPF-600 and FPF-1000 speakers i have owned a couple of years ago oversees. It doesn't sound like boxed speakers either indeed. Open baffle ? You better got your room acoustics.and placement in order. But they do create huge wide 3d like soundstages and detail...
@PulledPorkGarage - I use Monsoon MM-702 Planar Magnetic Desktop Speakers in a tri-amplified system for my desktop/PC speaker system. It's a near-field setup, so there is one ideal listening position that is in my chair in front of my desk. I have a pair Yamaha YST-SW-60 servo subs used for mid bass (play from 65 to 220 Hz) suspended just above the Monsoon panels sitting on my desk, and a Velodyne 8" MiniVee (1,000 W RMS) servo sub as my subwoofer (crossover 65 Hz). I use a Dayton Audio DSP-408 to control the crossover, and set parametric equalization and delay. Perhaps the DSP kills some resolution ultimately, but the flexibility is amazing. For example, I can change the delay and hear the difference, I can change the crossover slope and points and play with the equalization and hear the results. I have two pairs of planar magnetic headphones and comparatively the desktop system sounds pretty darn awesome. At some point I'd like to get the Magnepan Bass Panel to replace the mid bass speakers, but it's out of my budget at the moment. Perhaps a higher end DSP in the future. Maybe play with a fixed active crossover to see how that sounds, or even a passive xover.
Hey Steve, Interesting. The French's has a very French way, when making HI-FI. I own a complete French system, with is not your everyday set-up, and surly not for everybody. But don´t fall in love with them, as u then needs them badly. They are called: Lavardin/Leconture Cheers from Denmark.
Do you notice when you anounce pricing and it's around 5 digits, you pause right in the middle of the price? I can't tell if ou're saying seven(pause)teen thousand or seven(pause) ty thousand dollars.
THey sound better then Maggies is everyway. heard them at a show( they were my favorite at the show) and most people coming in the room didn't want to leave. If you get a chance check them out
ALL DIpole Speakers e.g. Magnapans, Quads, whatever; DON't give you "the Same Sound" from the REAR as the Front. But Rather, the Sound is an OUT of PHASE version.
So if you play a lot of poor recordings you should use a speaker that's colored in a way to ameliorate the bad sounds? I'm curious about the steel front and back panels. I'm sure the magnets are strong and steel is magnetic although to what degree depends on the type of steel. So I assume the panels are magnetized. Is this part of the design? I'm just curious. I have to add a comment on push/pull planars versus single ended ones. They reproduce signals asymmetrically. That is the displacement from neutral is different on the side with the driving mechanism than it is on the other side. This is a flaw in fidelity, in accurate reproduction.
@nobelstone9714 - Typically if there are magnets in front and/or in back, then there is a resonate frequency because of the cavities and channels. The crossover has to attenuate that frequency, or one needs a parametric equalizer. At least some Apogee ribbons have the ribbons on the side and don't have the issue. Interesting comment on the push/pull asymmetry; I hadn't considered that. Years ago before, I was a fan of push/pull isobaric subwoofers. Currently I like servo subs.
There is one veeeeeery important detail missing in the whole story and which is the bane of all planar speakers: LONGEVITY. Are there replacement panels? Can the manufacturer guarantee a stock for the next years? Same goes for other exotics like the Apogee-derived Clarisys panels costing insane money and Analysis Audio planars. The Diptyque looks to be using a single ribbon for the tweeter like Apogee and Magnepans do, these are guaranteed to sag and lose tension over the years. And don't even start me on ESL's like the Quad, the 63 and later are utter garbage in that regard. In the end, there is a good reason why planars will remain a very niche product, they won't work in many rooms and have a 1 person wide sweet spot - turn your head an inch to the side and the soundstage collapses.
Of course, there is absolutely no comparison in terms of sound quality per dollar spent! ET speakers are absolutely incredible, and Bruce is a great guy
Really? The Cornwalls significantly more dynamically alive and powerful sounding speakers. Bigger bass impact, The Diptique is far more open, transparent, with much faster clearer bass.
Tweeters should be point-source because the high frequencies can radiate to all heights of the listening position. When a tweeter is a line source, the line should be at least the height of the listener because the high frequencies will disappear above and below the line, as in the case with the DIptypque. Personally, I dislike tweeters that restrict how you can listen to them, so I would not be interested in speakers like the Diptyque.
i think if they dropped the price ,a good $12,000 grand... they might sell a few. they sound too picky to deal with. not much upside. you wont be driving those with a decware zen triode..
