Discogs.....? A Dealers Perspective! 

My favorite part was when Michael talking about PiL says “Only $280.. I thought it was a grail” 😂😂😂 For most regular people $280 is still a lot of money-especially for a record. Also it is definitely a grail for Americans because it’s extremely difficult to find and even harder in good condition.

Great video about Discogs and learning a lot about this service. Thank You Michael and Gunter !

Michael, excellent interview! Love listening to & learning from Gunter! ❤

This was very interesting and entertaining.

For many of us, records are a luxury item we often can’t afford anyway. I love records but the current prices make them often unaffordable for me. Part of me longs for the old days in the 00s when I could find mint condition originals for $5.

Excellent discussion.

Thank you. Great insight.

Very insightful video. A+. Amazing to get input from such an experienced seller. I agree Discogs can make some big improvements/changes if they are willing to. Agree 100% that VG+ has become the dumping ground for many sellers to put records for sale. There should be a grade between VG+ and NM- in my opinion. I will also offer the idea that Discogs is better off without actual pictures, as they can be glossed up and deceive you. On a completely different note, the scam situation on Discogs has become out of control.

Thank you for the great video! Discogs has been a tremendous resource for finding records and being able to get them for a good price. The last record I purchased was seriously under graded as far as play quality. I was overjoyed when the record was in much better shape than stated by the seller. eBay used to be a great place to buy recordings, and prices used to be alot cheaper. A couple of real problems was that many of the eBay sellers had no idea how to properly grade recordings, didn't even have anything to play recordings on(especially records), plus, they have no idea how to pact records they ship(especially 78's). However, Discogs has some serious problems(NOT in dealer selling) but in the area of the information provided for their listed releases. In looking through the information listed for titles they have some serious omissions but more importantly, the information listed about certain releases is incorrect. For certain records which I had a personal involvement with and only records I had in my possession, I made some corrections and added pertinent missing information, plus some higher quality pictures. So then the sh*t hits the fan. Questions why I changed or added something to a release, and then demanding that I change it back? No matter the reason I gave for doing what I did, it wasn't good enough. When accused of not following policy, I would cut and paste the written section of Discogs policy, showing that what I did followed policy, and added it to my response. Then the kangaroo court starts and a moderator didn't like what I did and banned me from making more submissions. That didn't stop all the questions people were asking me. The problem was I wasn't allowed to respond to their questions. Fortunately, I wasn't prevented from buying through Discogs. I haven't ever tried to see if I could sell anything, but if I am not allowed to sell, people are going to miss out on some rare records I would be willing to sell.

Should do a link to his page. Nice to see someone who's straight up and sounds like a person who works with his customers.

Great discussion, very interesting and informative. Catching up a little late here, but really appreciate the content. Excellent, thank you 😊

I don't know what to say!...Great RU-vid Video Again ! minty-vinyl

Thanks for this informative discussion! Had a great experience on Discogs so far until they stopped shipping to Singapore so using eBay for now…

I wish Discogs would let me set my wish list to ignore certain sellers. Not being able to do that really ruins the email feature.

I bought from Michael 45 last month and it was an excellent experience the record was extremely well packed so I feel every effort is been made too get the record delivered in good condition.

Excellent video, guys! I have had better luck with Discogs than eBay. The sellers seem to grade more accurately on Discogs. eBay has been just frustrating for me. When I buy on Discogs, I rarely go below Near Mint in condition. When you get down to VG+, or VG, you risk getting a little disappointed. I suppose the best thing about Discogs, as you say, is the enormous database. You can find pretty much whatever you want. Most of my life, I spent many hours looking through bins, like you do at Den Bosch. But with Discogs, I can target exactly what I want and no flipping through racks and bins, seeing thousands of records I already have or don't want. Of course, there is a need for Den Bosch and all the other record fairs around the world. I'm just getting old and I don't have the patience I had when I was younger. My collection is reasonably large and my 'want list' is very specific, so when I get in the mood to pull the trigger and make a specific addition to my collection, I turn to Discogs.

In comment I will repeat what I was saying in live stream: First I love Discogs, I trust more the few sellers I know than the records shops of my city where I go less and less. At the beginning Discogs was a kind of perfect economical world, based on trust and confidence for both parts. It change a bit, not in good, but I'm faithful to the 5 or 6 sellers I know, and I'm rarely disapointed. When it's happen there's always a solution. I like Ebay too, still with a limited number of sellers, but most of them are in USA, and it becomes too expensive with VAT for non european country, and shipping is never getting lower... Nice video, thanks.

If you buy a lot of records on Discogs expecting things to always be perfect - that is your problem. Expecting a record to be totally pop free, nope. Discogs has allowed you to find pressings with just one click. Unfortunately people place fishing “high prices” and those transfer over to the market price. I have only been fully burned once and DC froze their account. Plenty of gradings that were too high but also some that were pleasantly in better state that listed. It comes with the territory. I will never categorize my 5,000+ records in a DC database. Too nerdy and your collection is not worth what the values are online. Only the stuff I buy with a click of a button and then are asked by Discogs to archive.

This was an excellent discussion. For me, Discogs is an invaluable resource. The scammers are easy to spot but are becoming a little more sophisticated in some ways. In the end if you buy something, the minute they ask you to pay for a record outside of Discogs than you know something is wrong. Gunther is great though. Looking forward to a Sun Ra feature. I wonder if he would consider offers on his Discogs items for an OBC member? I see he has a few I'd love to get. thanks Michael

Great discussion! I am relieved that I have no more GRAILS to hunt down! Apart from scammers the REAL problem is the hordes of amateurs selling on ebay discogs blah blah....one of my local charity stores had a half dozen Frank Sinatra albums for sale at 15 dollars each...all in various condition,up to VG.....this is a perfect example of how the vinyl revival is bad for us old collectors who have been buying for 5 decades...if they had them for sale at 50 cents each I MIGHT have purchased them....I bet those albums will gather dust in that shop for all eternity......instead of getting 3 dollars for their charity guaranteed ...the same shop had an excellent DECCA Gustav Holst THE PLANETS MONO for one dollar,which I would happily have paid 15 bucks.....FORGIVE THEM LORD....FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO

Michael, you are right, Discogs overgrading is a endemic problem. I never buy "NM" or "M-" anymore, because they are usually VG+, at best. I've had my best luck when the seller grades as "strong VG+", I figure they're at least trying to be honest not trying to grade it as NM/M-.

Discogs is often a real jungle. Not only originals but also a lot of represses are listed wrong on Discogs. And it are often professional (shop) dealers they don't take care or don't have the time to list it correctly. F.e. Yankee Hotel Foxtrot original 2002 release: there are a lot of sellers listing this as new or sealed. Probably they are selling the 2021 reissue that's also on Discogs. It's the same master but it's of course a different press and it also has different labels on the vinyl. Controversy 2011 BG Remaster. 59 copies for sale for the moment. A lot new and sealed. I bet they are selling the 2020 Warner BG repress also listed on Discogs. That drives me crazy if I want an original 2011 BG copy. And then you have an European and an USA pressing. Also a lof of mistakes here. If you message the sellers most of the time you don't get a message back. They are just selling and don't care what they are sellling. And these cowboys are often professional sellers. In some cases you are better off with private sellers or collectors. They sometimes know their products better than professionals. That' my experience. And I know Gunther from 'S Hertogenbosch. He's a great and reliable professional seller and a nice and friendy guy! Kind reg from Belgium Johan

I always, Always, *ALWAYS* write the seller first about an album. I am ALWAYS very nice and polite. I don't give an intimidating 3rd degree like Stunty does 😊 but I always say something non-demanding like, 'I hope you don't mind but I wanted to check with you first. I have a moderately sensitive system, so I just wanted to be sure that the vinyl is indeed in NM condition. I really appreciate any input or information you can give me about the condition of the vinyl. Thank you so much!' And, almost EVERY time, the seller if they are not TOO huge or busy, will get back to me and especially private sellers, which I know the fellow was kind of disparaging them like they were a big risk, but with most even private sellers, since they are usually not too busy or overwhelmed, WILL indeed take the time to playgrade at least parts of the album and get back to me. In I would say over 150 transactions over the last few years, I have had only ONE or TWO persons mis-grade an album, and it was taken care of just fine. BUT... there were MANY times where the seller got back to me and said that they had made a mistake and changed the grading on their album, or in some cases they tell me when I ask if it is a certain pressing with a certain deadwax runout, they will apologize and relist the album under the proper release. In doing this *EVERY DAMN TIME* , I have almost never had any serious issues with ANY of these 150+ albums that I have bought! Oh, and just to add... In the feedback for sellers I ALWAYS use up ALL of my letters and go into detail about why they were so good, packaging, communication, etc... Also, Michael to what you said about in the description the 'downgrading starts'... Personally, I feel that if a seller takes the time to enter a description in DETAIL about the condition of the album, I THINK THAT IS GREAT! Because it shows they are conscientious. I almost NEVER buy from someone who does NOT include some detailed description SHOWING that they care and are thorough enough to do that, and I praise them for that! Especially if I am going to take a chance on a VG+ vinyl rating. If it JUST says VG+ and nothing else, I ALWAYS skip it! But, if they add (actually an 'Upgrade' 😁) and they say, 'Vinyl plays like NM' or 'Almost NM' and of course they have excellent feedback, then I will at least write them about it and also compliment them on their being thorough and conscientious. So, in this case I *ABSOLUTELY* agree with Gunter here 😁 Oh, and Gunter seems like a *REALLY* nice fellow even though he apparently hangs around shady types like you! 👍

Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Am I glad that I have it as a resource… Absolutely! As long as you manage your expectations, communicate, and avoid red flags, I think you could have a great experience as a record collector on the platform.

Vielen Dank für euer Expertengespräch. Ich habe es mit großem Interesse verfolgt. Dass man ohne weiteres den ganzen möglichen Problemen die entstehen können vorbeugen kann glaube ich nicht. Bestimmt nicht, wenn Menschen unredlich handeln. Was man sehr wohl machen könnte ist die Abwicklung von Schadensfällen und Streitfällen zu moderieren und einfache Musterprozesse dazu zur Abwicklung hinterlegen. Z.b. gefällt dir einer Platte nicht, dann gibt es drei potentielle Möglichkeiten die du dem Händler anbietest, man sucht sich seine Vorschläge aus. Einen muss der Käufer sich dann aussuchen. Klar ist, dass die Rücksendekosten der Verkäufer übernimmt. Da braucht sich dann der Käufer auch keine sorgen machen . Das könnte man noch wunderbar regeln. Das was mich am meisten nervt sind die Diskussionen. Aber Discogs hat gar kein Interesse in diesen Service zu investieren. Die wissen dass sie das Monopol haben. Technische Investitionen gehen zu Lasten des Gewinns. Ich denke nicht dass sich da großartig was ändern wird, bis nicht eine andere Plattform als Konkurrenz auftaucht. Die Diskussion ist müßig. Die wollen das nicht verbessern.

Sellers should just play grade records over a certain price or if they are marking up by a certain percentage. Like if you're a seller saying a record is a NM and it's $100+ and everyone else is selling a VG+ for $50 less, you should be able to afford the time and energy to play grade the entire record before you actually ship it to the buyer. This way you can verify the sound matches the appearance and avoid disappointing a customer. Visual only play grading is acceptable for VG and less only. Also, no one serious about records enough to shop on discogs would buy lower than a VG+ unless the record is extremely rare or some special case. So many times I've received a so called NM that is either warped (easy for seller to spot check) or the record sounds really more like a VG or maybe a VG+. I've had more luck on more obscure records being correct in general. Also, Discogs should add a grading accuracy scale and show that number like a score next to the seller. If you see a seller with 3000 sales and a grade accuracy rating of 9.5 in the past 60, 90, 365 days, you have something you can trust. I also would pay more if a purchase was guaranteed play graded and followed the actual grading standards. So discogs could offer these types of tools. The common issues of communication and speed when buying anything online are less important to people buying vinyl. Packing records well is also a given.

Michael, if you’re disappointed 60% of the time, it’s possible your expectations are either unrealistic or you’re not doing enough due diligence prior to a purchase. One issue is the ratings are ultimately subjective. Sure, the rating descriptions seem straightforward, but every seller is invariably going to have a different take on what VG+ (for example) means in practical terms. That’s unavoidable. As a buyer, I’ve been satisfied more then 90% of the time. I only buy from sellers with consistently good feedback, percentage and comments. If it’s the first time I’ve bought from a seller, I’ll ask questions. I’ll also occasionally ask for photos. If the answers and photos seem legit, I’ll make the purchase. If the end result is positive, I’ll regard the seller as trustworthy and buy from them again. If you’re already using that approach and you’re still stuck at 60%, the issue may not be entirely with the sellers.

I wish Discogs would send daily emails like they used to when something in your want list pops up.

Discogs is a great free resource but is it that good could be judged by how many would pay for it? I started listing mine but never finnished it off because of multiple listings. I wonder Michael 45 have you still blocked my comments because i can't read yours at all. Bit of a shame really if i upset you that much with something i said 😢

Interesting chat. There is a UK principle of caveat emptor (buyer beware) which applies to Discogs as much as any other retailer. Discogs cannot take away the buyers responsibility to be careful. Also large scale vinyl production ceased in the 1980s so original vinyl is at least 35+ years old so the real amount of NM vinyl must be small. Take care to ensure NM gradings are correct.

JUst seems to many any trashed record that will play through will be graded very good+. by most discogs sellers. A record has to look like it was scrubbed with a brillo pad, and the jacket falling off to be graded good or below.

I found the slowboy record label discog shop---but not Guenter discog shop-he is right--must be hard to find a particular seller. Ah---had to google name---minty vinyl. Under his own name just 2 records for sale..lol.

Like the comments on "knowing who your buying from" as I always ask how the seller grades the LP (I'm not so critical of covers however the Vinyl condition is important to me). I don't expect a seller to listen to every LP however when graded NM, I ask them if the can play before I make my decision. If not willing to play I'm not interested

Great video Michael. You managed to cover everything succinctly. Wish I could buy from Gunter but minty doesn't ship to Australia. Can you please add us ?!🙏

I gave up with their inaccurate website years ago. Too much like Wiki these days & unreliable release information.

It's all about due diligence.

The problem is kind of comparable to taste or the describing of color, one may find this NM and one may find this VG+/VG and the amount of detail in the descriptions of these gradations is nescasery AND EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO FOLLOW. And there should be a BASELINE or MINIMUM way/insurance/quality of SHIPPING. And people should rate buyers more carefully and critticaly, but not take advantage of it! Great vid I personally had(with luck)1 out of 37 records that did not comply with the expectations butt that is just luck i guess. Love and kindof hate discogs. Great Vid! Bright moments!!!!!!

Great video Michael. I’m more into “collecting” good and reliable sellers on Discogs because I also have been bitten in the ass before. Guenter in on my list as reliable seller. Thanks a lot.

VG+++-