can I ask you how you calculated the runner length of each tube? or more specifically, how you work out the length of the elbow sections? i have been using the radius to the center for the tube, then working out the circumstances dividing that by 360 and then multiple that by what ever angle ive cut (so basically a line running down the center of the tube) but i am trying to mock up the last 2 runners which ended up too long so ive been trying to shorten it by making it a straighter run (so removing bends and doing a long straight section) and the calculated "lenght" is get longer but i am visibly making it shorter, I've been scratching my head for the last 3hours trying to figure out where i went wrong. could you help me? love the channel by the way, I was inspired to make my own exhaust manifold after watching your videos. The info has been very helpful, thanks. my next project is the intake manifold with a carbon fibre plenum 👍
I did a different variation today and it came up with numbers that seemed correct. so I think I am calculating it correctly. if you get a chance let me know how you calculated the length of your bends. thanks
Each bend has a centre line radius and you know how many of the parts as well as straights you've used. That gives you the length. It's just adding up the various blocks.
My Fiat Couoe 20v Turbo Plus manifold always break after a few hundreds or several thousand kilometres, and I am really fed up buying the cheap chinesium ones year after year, but there are no oen or even aftermarket quality stuff (only for racing which fits only by removing the heat shield etc), I think I will try this method next year.
Bro thank you so much for these videos. I’m hoping to create my own. I’ve tried finding turbo kits for my motor, but they don’t make any. These videos will help me so much ,thank you.
@@ThrottleStopGarage i hate to be so caustic about it, but its literally some blow molded plastic that probably costs them $5 per kit. (Not sure of their particular process but still...) I realize molds and design time are in there but it seems way over the top to charge that much. It prevents home gamers from trying and encourages going to thingyverse and investing in a 3d printer or two. And I understand being on the no to little demand side of things and how exorbitant low volume parts are having a 1976 Ford Elite 400 - a set of A arms is $500... I dunno. I think the company(ies) that make these are taking the wrong approach here
@@BAMAJiPS 100% agree. That's why I've put the models on thingiverse. You can 3D print them for free. I would bet that if they lowered the price, the'd sell a bunch more - probably more than they think. I'd rather buy these things than build them if the price is reasonable.
Beautiful work. Once you had your collector positioned relative to the flange, could you have moved to the bench, made the jig, and then done more of the pipe finessing and experimentation there?
I'm not sure - I would have had to simulate the constraint of the suspension. Then, sure - but I would want to see it in the car to make sure that something didn't go wrong.
hello good morning I have a question about where you bought the orange block to mark the elbows I have been trying to get them for a long time and I have not been able to find them
I tried to print your files but the printer doesn't recognize it do you have any suggestions on how I can solve this? My printer is Creality Ender-3 Max Neo. Thanks!
@@ThrottleStopGarage Ok, the previous problem has been solved. But the Long Radius 1.5" weld el marking jig file appears out of scale! Would you be able to fix it please? I'm new to 3d printing and it gets more complicated for me. And this tool is precisely what would help me the most in the manufacture of the heads. Thanks!
Ps. Would you have this same 1,500" jig weld file but with a shorter radius? The manufacture is for a chopper motorcycle and I will be using stainless steel curves with a short radius due to reduced space!
The ICE Engine Works modelling kit is $550 at Summit Racing, and the expansion kits are $89 - $99 each. I know zero about 3D printing, so I can't say how that compares to the cost of a 3D printer rig capable of making your DIY modelling elbows (plus consumables).
Interesting question. To get this done I would have needed to get the larger kit - it's $900 - but either way let's settle on $650 and see where we get. The printer was $250 (and I made the first parts with that machine). I also designed and printed the cutting jigs (those are a couple of hundred dollars each if you buy them) so I'm guessing tooling (store bought jigs and lego blocks) would set you back $1000. I've made headers before and did it without blocks or cut jigs and it was fine. It did take more time and was less precise - and these blocks and jigs really do make it easier to do. 3D printing isn't very turn-key and printing ABS is a challenge...but I've done all that learning and working out best practices to the point that I switch my printer on and tell it to print and I walk away. I've done a lot of printing - I need parts for my real job, I use it for prototyping parts for the car - lots of stuff. I average 8-10 kgs of filament per year. Newer 3D printers are better than what I started with. Filament to do the parts was about $100. So if I was doing this for real - hands down buy the real thing. No question. If you're making one every once in a while and have other uses for the printer and don't mind tinkering with the process - do it that way. When I go to do the exhaust - I'll just print out 3" models. Cost - less than $50. I need lots of other little parts here and there...just print them.
Could you link to the STL files again? The thingiverse link seems to be broken. I'm also very interested in the specific print settings you used to achieve 6 prints / 7 hours. Would also be really nice to get the STL for the generic turbo :)
I'll do what I can. I have no idea why the thingiverse link is not working. If you search for throttlestopgarage - you'll find it. I can dump the turbo model in there when I get a minute.
talking about taps. I had to tap 4 holes in my spindles for my brake bracket. I found a set of craftsman that i bought 25 years ago (they were still new because I havent used them). well after hole number 3 using wd40 you guessed it. SNAP A buddy told me which one to buy and also which cutting oil to buy and DANG like you said Butter.
Thank you for running thru the process. It is a lot of work. When I did mine I spent the 800 usd for the commercially available. As you point out the time to print, rework and failure all take time and you have to factor in the cost of that. I used mandrel bent U bend, so the purchased ones have clocking witness marks built in so you can see if you are cheating the bend with rotation. Great pointer on mounting the merge collector firmly and in it's happy place, or you just end up chasing your tail. Very nice jig fixture. Much better that attaching the head flange to a table because you can spin the part and not have to work around the table. The aluminum also acts a nice heat sink up to a point. Glad you showed the amount of touch time and illustrate why well fabricated custom manifolds are not cheap. Only took me 2 1/2 years to do my build. saabrally.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3863
I could have tweaked the models a little to make the snap fit a little better, but they do work with just little fiddling. It was a learning process. I have already modified runner #3 thanks to viewer feedback.
Hi Alan - I may have a look at it tomorrow before it's done. There is room - not much but a little. I may put in a short radius there to pull the tube up a little.
i was thinking if maybe you've made the pieces for the manifold mockup with press fit neodym magnets they'd be easy to print and probably wouldn't fall apart as easily. you could still detach the individual pieces from each other without any problems by sliding them apart. I know this is kind of redundant now since the manifold is already built but maybe its something to consider if you plan to build another one in the future
Fantastic video, i get tired of people asking "why does it cost so much" i completely stopped making a lot of stuff for other people cause of this. The ones i do make stuff for understand the work that goes into doing a proper job. I do have the "off the shelf" pipe modeling kit and it's served me well. And remember, if the women don't find ya handsome, they'll at least find ya handy!
With you 100% If this needed to make sense, do production work for Honda's. I try to build to the best of my abilities - I'm not on a clock anymore and there is no foreman. I do it my way and take my time. It helps me sleep.
Out of curiosity, why you did this process instead of designing the header in CAD, test printing in ABS as a single unit, and then using a lost-wax castable 3d print material for a cast header? I image the answer has to do with the size of your printer and not having a forge to do cast iron or steel at home :)
Man this video was incredible. So inspirational. Thanks. Whats the part number on that McMaster Carr exhaust flange? I have a 1998 S70 t5m project and I've been looking for an exhaust manifold for my large frame turbo with no luck.
McMaster Carr sold me the aluminum for the chill block. I had the flange machined - it's my design. Manifolds are available from Sweden for your application.
@@ΔημήτρηςΔεσλης-ψ9ω I've just tried it again and it's working for me. Search Throttle Stop Garage and they are there in a collection. Sorry - that's all I can do.
Great job. Struggled with the same process. Learnt that making a solid jig is the most important part. And quitted using 3d printed mockup pieces; now I design the tubes in CAD after the jig is done. Sometimes you need, lets say, 42° instead of 45° and it's hard to tell. But 3d printed cutting jigs are awesome and I use them all the time. Keep up the good work!
Thanks, I can see the advantage to your approach for sure. I'm not sure my CAD skills are where they need to be to do it your way. I've got marking jigs printed - next episode we'll see how that goes.
@@mitchmckenzie8016 thr lonk is on the description. They are all in a collection of parts on thingiverse. You can then have a service print them for you.
Now, I don't want to discourage you, but from what Turbo Yoda of "Mighty Car Mods" and "The Skid Factory" fame has said, a log style manifold wouldn't perform very much worse at all in a turbo application... And it would make packaging and manufacturing much easier! You could even keep the inner fender maybe?
Not at all discouraged - in 2016 Mercedes ran a log on the first generation turbo hybrid F1 car. It works. Everyone knows that...but after having heat problems, in 2017 Merc went to a tuned header. There are also very good reasons to go tuned length. Oh, that fender had to go regardless of log or not - it's just in the way.
@@ThrottleStopGarage glad you had thought of this before. You are actually basically building my dream build. I love the Amazon, due to fond childhood memories of dad's friend racing one in amateur veteran racing and have always liked the sound of a five cylinder. Keep living my dream :)
for your trial fitting 3D printed parts, you might try using some engineered plastic filament. Much stronger! The is an excellent video. You're a master craftsman and a pleasure to watch work!
Really really amazing work! I love the practical 3D printing. One observation about aluminium plate I found when machining is that a lot of stress is built up in the plate surface. When milling off the surface of plate of 20mm or less it tends to bend in the direction of the unmachined surface. You have to machine it 4 times to get the surfaces parallel. Top, bottom, top, bottom. So, first pass makes the thing go like a bananna. Second pass on the other side releases the stress on the other side so it'll go relatively flat again but the surfaces will still vary in thickness. Now the stress is released you can actualy do the top and bottom again to make them flat and parallel. Could get pretty frustrating if the plate was also wide enough to bend in 2 axes though!! We only had a 120mm facemill at our place.
I've wondered about that. It's flat right now and I just hope with some clamps that it stays that way. Of course, the flange will bend to follow the warp - so that's why I surfaced it.
LOving the content! broke down and got a 3d printer myself to help with things. question: what size am I scaling the parts to in order to get the size you've achieved? when I open the 3d files you have posted on thingiverse in my slicing software (cura) the models are tiny and require scaling up to be viable. basically what should the axis mm values be for the weld el body model to scale properly and fit the piping thank you so much!
Ah - sorry about that...I designed these before I was print savy. Set the scale to 2540 - that will convert the units to correct size (they were drawn in imperial and Cura is only metric). Are you printing in ABS? If so - get a PEI sheet to print on and measure your print bed thermal offset. Test the surface temperature and adjust in Cura until you get 100º C at the bed surface (my offset is 20º C and I heat with an AC heater because it's a lot saver (separate PID controller). Get a 0.6 mm nozzle.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Thank you so much for the quick response! Do not apologize I too am just getting print savvy. I had planed to print in petg. ordering the nozzle today. Ill be printing these while I wait for my chill block back from the machine shop
@@Lifesabishi PETG settings to avoid stringing have to be tested to get decent prints. I have printed a few test parts and they will hold up fine. Just fiddle around with the finish on the male parts to make sure you can snap them together and get them apart! You'll break a few.
@@ThrottleStopGarage petg REALLY needs you to increase heat, slowdown retraction values, Ponder the virtues of monk like patience, nail bed leveling. I plan to break a BUNCH! 🤣 It's the fabrication life for me. I'm hooked.
Progress is looking good! Tubular manifolds are tough to get right. Not that I've ever made one, but making a turbo up-pipe for a Subaru was a real challenge and that was just a single pipe.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Good luck with the rest of the project! Might I suggest using some high temp tape that is often used within the powder coating business. Works well to secure pipe segments while setting tack welds and holds argon within the pipe when back purging a number of segments together.
Great result! Those printed parts will be stronger if you tilt them in a angle when printing. Then the layers will go through the snap lock without making weak breaking points. I guess that's why the straight fittings was so brittle. Also the lenght and numbers of slots, between the snap lock, should be increased. You know when you bend a quarter of a tube, it will flatten at the bend. In the plastic print, these forces just rip the layers apart. Also, if you put some degrees of draft on the locking surfaces, it should be easier to get them apart as well, without breaking the snap lock.
I know - there is a balance with the parts. I didn't want to print supports for the straight parts. If I was doing it again, I'd modify the straight male parts to make that failure point stronger. Either way - I had lots and it worked!
@@ThrottleStopGarage Yes, the end result was top notch. I have been in the plastic business for 25years, and making perfect snap-locks on the first try isn't always that easy. When making molds, I always make them too loose on purpose, since it is easier to make them stiffer when adjusting. When 3D printing, you want to make it stiff enough, and then remove excess plastic with a dremel etc. Keep the videos coming! I really enjoy them, and learn a lot by following you through this journey!
Absolutely LOVE the time, effort and consideration you’re putting into taking it slow and figuring things out. There’s a LOT to be said for jigs and just trying different things. I have to admit, I kept wondering, “why not have a jig so you could piece things together on the bench?” Then, satisfaction! Now that you’ve worked through it (and I’m about to watch the next video) would you do anything differently?
Thanks - I don't think I'd do anything differently. It worked pretty much as I expected. I'd improve the joint on the plastic parts so it was a little more robust and would work a little better right off the printer. I did further refine a few runners once on the bench (next video) and that worked.
@@ThrottleStopGarage I saw that in part 2… it did turn out nicely. The only thing I wondered about was fiddling with it a bit more to try to achieve closer to equal length. Though I know you were pretty constrained space wise. Kudos on the work, it’s inspiring!
@@ThrottleStopGarage sir u know @Libertywalk supercar tunner & modifier ( how they convert stand Huracan into completely different look ) they add lots of extra exterior design...etc.
@@ThrottleStopGarage at 18:15 you have the pipe going to the turbo hard mounted to the exhaust. You do have a vband between the headers and the turbo but it might not allow enough expansion to allow for that hardmount. Turbo piping gets very hot but that support mount might not.
@@ThrottleStopGarage shops I've worked for have all called me MacGyver. I'd much rather spend the money and time LEARNING something new than buying some Chinese garbage. I'll try almost anything.
@@ThrottleStopGarage hahaha it will be a real exercise of patience, and I can see that it is going to be a challenging task. Just go for it, one piece at a time. You might want to use a hot glue gun in order to temporarily tag the pieces together before you tag weld them with your welding machine. Or try to make it fit with tape first before you tag it all together. I think that this is a typical project that you want to do real slow and careful. Every minute that you spend on the preparation and your jigs will show in the overall result. And besides functionality it is a nice part to show off, right, even if people have to bend a bit to see it :-)
@@ThrottleStopGarage Cool stuff. I was thinking more like a dry fit when you have cut all the metal pieces even before you start welding. Similar to what you did with the 3D printed parts and the tape. But I am looking forward to the welding episode, I am sure that you come up with innovative ideas to make it work for you :-)
@@insAneTunA There are some really cool clamps that do this - they clamp the pieces of tube together before tacking so you can get the angles sorted out. I got a used set and they're fantastic. I'll be starting the fitting tomorrow.
Man, for all this hard work you're doing, I sure hope you're putting a really primo turbo in there, like a Garrett G25-550/660, or maybe the G30-660/770/900 depending on your power goals.
