DMG Lord Mix (Bowser) vs. FOX MVG|Mew2King (Cloud) - Wii U Winner's Quarters - SC:68 

bowser s tier pls nerf

Melee marth confirmed

Smash 4 Bowser channeled his inner Melee Marth.

XD is bowser secretly scorpion from MK?!? GET OVER HERE

Go frame by frame at 6:29 (with the "." and "," keys) you were not lying hahaha. The extended hurtbox on that Bair lol

Cr4ck3rJ4ckCru3 pivot grabbing increases the range on grab

Bevan Smith I like bares

*+Shodowkid 22299* Lol noob git gud.

Smash4LifeGaming same... Sadly

omg me too lol

Same for me ahah

that's vikkikitty fam. she got that melee commenting tech skill

Smash4LifeGaming she's legit though

JM Jack McNally

JM Jack McNally dude Jab to bowser bomb is best frame trap

i so thought it was

Glad I'm not the only one

Bowser is a high Mid-tier though. And this MU is almost even with Cloud having a slight advantage.

Zepdragon cloud is ranked number 1 out of 55 while Bowser at the lower end, 40/55. How is that a slight advantage?

Tier lists take into account MU spreads and how a certain character does against the rest of the cast. Cloud is the better character because he has better MU's over the rest of the cast like the other Top tiers. Bowser doesn't beat any character by a large margin and either goes even with them or has a slight disadvantage except when it comes to ZSS, Sonic, Rosa and Corrin. So he is somewhere in the middle. In regards to this MU, While Cloud has a great air game and can juggle Bowser, he needs to depend on limit or hard read smash attacks for the kill. Bowser has a better ground game, can easily punish his landing options and any unsafe moves on shield. He also has great edgeguarding options and all his moves that involve his arms are disjointed with as much range as Cloud's sword. All of Bowser's move kill and he has a kill confirm off grab. Cloud with Limit makes Cloud easy to kill and increases Bowser's Uthrow-Uair kill window. Cloud has a slight advantage in that he has better movement options and can edgeguard Bowser very easily especially if he doesn't have a jump.

Zepdragon my point exactly, Bowser MU isn't as great as Cloud but that doesn't stop Lord from using him in competitive play. I'm saying how I appreciate the fact that people main low tier characters who have average to poor match ups because it makes the game much more interesting, rather than having two top tiers facing each other.

Ah, alrighty. It is much more interesting and this matchup is one of my favorites.

Ekna Ekner ? do you legitametly not know what females sound like??

vehicledestroyer Since Melee's first few tournaments, there's always been player cams sometimes looking at their hands on their controller and the commentators would occasionally mention what they messed up on in relation to their inputs.

Gabriel Martin that has absolutely nothing to do with what I said or what the commentators made mention of.

vehicledestroyer Because it's an actual strategy. Applying the other player's movements in real life is a good way to react to your opponents options faster. You can also use your own movements to throw off your opponent. It's a good strat for ledge mind games

+LuigiThe13th reading someone's di in game is fine. it's a read and not guaranteed. literally looking at someone's controller to see where they're going is no different from screen cheating on split screen games

I mean, ESAM used to do it with thunder lol

Marths lel autocorrect

Ethan S why did you say that name???

Nah. M2k dropped down to edgeguard but Lord mix threw out a fair before M2K could throw out a move. M2k missed the tech.

Grith Brot someone wants the girl's twitter lol

TheNinjaGallade Hahaha naw fam. I've got a girlfriend. But it is somewhat rare to see a girl commentating, and she did a really good job. But I'm sure there are those who'd want it for that, which is probably WHY they don't XD

5:48

ItsASquid LordMix is by far the best bowser in the world, and bowser has been rising on many people's tier lists recently

+Terence Kelly makes me wonder how many other characters are better than they seem

DreeGon I bet you didn't know m2k has a very horrible circumcision at birth, and can't feel 90% of his penis:) 100% true story. he talked about it in private messages that were "leaked"

Tman Goodguy No, i did not XD I guess that is why he is so cold, he can never experience sex xD Poor him, he deserves better for destroying so many people with marth.

DreeGon he needs a penis as OP as Marth dude...he is a pretty depressing guy

Tman Goodguy BUT THATS WHAT WE LIKE ABOUT HIM, HES THE ROBOT XD

DreeGon true, true..

Jean Osorio I mean he has a solid DK, and used to main Diddy so he probably has a decent Diddy even after the nerf

Yeah i guess

Who dosent have a Cloud?

getshrekt idk lol but I'm saying you know, mix uses Cloud in tourneys too, so he knows how to gimp off stage and all (:

Caleb Anderson Stop talking and learn. You're not ever, ever going to beat a player of M2K's calibur without a great deal of skill. Mix's style may not be something you personally like, but it's extremely effective and he's gone far in majors with Bowser. All of this is coming from someone that doesn't even like the young man.

Xerion1 Lol. Stop talking and learn. All I said was I don't like the grab-spam fighting style. Not that I couldn't handle it. It's incredibly predictable. And i'm fairly certain I could beat him after finding and beating some decent players, cuz on 3DS it doesn't happen often. And i'm on the go a lot. So I never really had time to buy a WiiU. And it's not that I don't like him, it's just that style of competitive play. I don't know why it still exists, it's incredibly predictable. The only mix-up's he had were dash dancing and rolling away after running towards him. All this coming from someone who only plays minor tourney's.

.....but Bowser is a grappler...he;s supposed to grab. That's like saying Zangief shouldn't grab...

Bowser is so much more than a grappler. He's top 10 in running speed (amazingly enough) Some of his moves like whirling fortress come out insanely fast and can cause tripping when timed right, leading to even more combo's. He's great at playing keep away with his neutral jab and Dtilt. There's so much more to him than grabs.

Caleb Anderson And yet, here's the best Bowser in the world and here you are spectating with a lot to say about THE BEST BOWSER PLAYER ON THE PLANET. Human ego knows no bounds. If you can do it better, get out there and do it, otherwise STAHHHHPPPP.

Whoever has the lowest damage percent has more control of Bowser's horizontal movement during flying slam, and it's rare for Bowser to have both a stock lead and a percent lead, so opportunities don't come up that often. Also it's not against the rules.

damn, it's funnier in hindsight then knowing my friends could have DI'd out of all the bullshit i gave em

hahaha don't tell your friends just let them struggle

I HAD A DREAM ABOUT PLAYING BOWSER LAST NIGHT BECAUSE OF YOUR COMMENT

Jarren Da Homey rofl

Neutral B is bad because it has lots of end lag. Lord Mix is also the best Bowser player and this matchup is almost even with Cloud having a slight advantage.

that's why you mix it up it's only bad if you do it obviously....

Nah, its ok from far away but it having lots of startup and endlag is pretty bad. Limit neutral B is pretty good but won't kill bowser early enough. Cloud needs to keep Bowser off the ground because thats where he excels at and and give Cloud a hard time landing. Any of Clouds mis-spaced aerials is punishable by pivot grab which leads to a ton of damage.

Zepdragon that would work in theory, that's a lot of reading the opponent, did you see how bowser never approached, m2k didnt give him a reason he was in his head the whole match. if he used neutral b just a bit i would atleast make mix cautious of just dashing back.

The year is 202King. Everyone mains Cloud.

Bowser is the heaviest character in the game.

Can't count out a bowser though.

#rekt

Soundwave Superior Probably honor or something

Soundwave Superior because your opponent can influence the direction you both go.

there is no "honor" needed to win

Well some people have honor to not get cheap wins like that so yea what you talkin

He is playing a low tier , he as already more honor than anyone is this tournament

Bevan Smith Speak once you've beaten Lord Mix yourself. If you actually watched the set, you'd know that he only needed two or three grabs to kill M2K, and otherwise M2K was winning in neutral almost all the time.

When you know that is Bowser kills you post patch then you try your hardest to not get grabbed. THe thing is that's how you play around Dk at mid-high percent, you get grabbed you die. M2K simply couldn't avoid getting grabbed and I think it's because I can't play the MU. Winning the Neutral with Cloud is much easier to do against bowser, but that's just it, it doesn't matter because Bowser relies on stray hits and grab confirms.

Also lord mix isn't a random and bowser isn't low tier.

Bevan Smith If M2K was a bit more aggressive as Cloud and didn't just charge limit he could've won. Let Bowser live and you will get killed but his combos.

Space Wizard Pip Well, that's just how M2K plays, man. He's all about being optimal, and it worked out for him last time he faced Lord Mix.

Just looks and feels so different than past Smash games. It's not bad, but it's just different.

I still feel like it's what brawl should've been. Actually even better.

what game the bullshit Brawl ¬¬

its so much better than Brawl

*+Erick Puebla* Brawl is better.

jensos7 He just finished getting 2nd place at a bigger melee tournament, is be surprised if he even got a few days of practice for this

And she was on point, too. No complaints from me.

Madoculos i dont have any problems, we just need more of them.

今の時代はよっぽど面白いか上手いかじゃないと直録りの動画は見てもらえない。 タイトルがネタバレ気味。 短い。

Varuna Heart Cloud doesn't really have an Uber good matchup against Bowser. It's a good one for sure, but mainly because of just being a better character. Most other top tiers completely dumpster Bowser because he can't handle their projectiles or their combos or just getting lamed out. Cloud can't really capitalize on Bowser's weakness as hard.

Garrett Seno ZSS dumpsters bowser. Mario kinda can if you get the combo extension stuff. The other tops Bowser can go even with... kinda. If sonic can't land a kill, you get a free Gigabowser for a minute or two. Thanks for the rage. Rosa dies real fast. Bowser IS a kill move. He's just real fat and easy to combo lol

Trevor Mccord Except when you actually see the games being played, you see that getting comboed and lamed out is a bigger weakness than being hard to kill and easy to kill with is a strength.

Varuna Heart Cloud S rank? Bowser E rank? lol I think not.

Jimmy John Top players made those tiers up, not me.

A lot of people, apparently.

JW Money void and Vinnie did lol

DeRon Caldwell M2K is overall the best smash player at one point M2K was the best in Melee and brawl. Still the best at brawl and one of the best in Melee. He has overall good results in smash 4 too.so he is good

DeRon Caldwell Are you just stupid or have you never played cloud.