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Support are the killers in dead by daylight lmao. So true. Dps feels like a cosmetic role with how much rediculous damage and healing support dish out right now.
I kind of think the notion of "go for the supports first" is the reason they ended up this way. Having either an escape tool or being able to fight back is pretty much needed to still have fun when you are the top priority target. Having both might be too much. The only time I feel being hunted like a support when playing DPS is after I managed to get a big multikill or streak and start being perceived as the main threat.
On the topic of losses being your fault or your teams fault, you can still have sympathy for your underperforming teammate and understand that we all have our off days, while still recognizing that they made a play or multiple plays that cost the round.
Exactly! in OW1, even if someone underperformed in a game, you were the same rank... you probably had just as many bad games as they had. (I still think OW2 ranked is a little worse & broken)
hot take?: everyone is a little op rn. damage numbers and healing numbers are INSANE and the fast-paced nature of the game means that if one person messes up, the game is pretty much lost bc now their entire team has to play catchup for the rest of the match.
Regarding the losses, that Hog doesnt seem to understand the difference between simply winning/losing and carrying/throwing. You expect everyone to be around your relative skill level in your rank, but if youre doing so much better than everyone on your team to the point its comical, but you still lose, there is absolutely no way its your fault lol. If you have to literally *hard carry* every match you play to win, the matchmaking is busted and/or your team is just dragging you down.
Guys remember no matter how bad your team is doing, no matter how many times your Rein charges in solo, or your dps gets manhandled, your accuracy isn’t 100% so it’s your fault you lost. Buy an aimbot.
16:33 yet immortality field still exists, there's suzu which didn't get the invincibility removed, there's Ana Nade, which can win fights if placed well, there's rez...He literally didn't address the problems
yeah he doesn't realize the nerfs weren't the problems with support. like as a support main i do not give a fuck about the passive 😭😭😭 it does not help you win a 1v1 if the person is hitting their shots
6:50 I would be in somewhat disagree because in like Gm3 and below good comms are nowhere. the only comms you'll get is, "Tank diff" "bro our ___ is trash" "DPS start getting kills" its just toxicity
and from what i've seen, in the highest ranks, comms are very minimal because people are good and don't need to micromanage everything. the ranks where you need comms the most is the ranks with the least amount of them
The guy shitting on mercy mains has obviously never played mercy or paid attention to mercy to know how she plays lmao. You dont need to play hitscan with a mercy. You can make lucio work with kercy. There are more characters you can play with her than ana and bap.
Regarding “a lot of losses aren’t my fault”, I have to say: a 65% winrate would be insane, and that still implies losing 35% of games. 35% of games being a loss even for someone that is statistically better than their current rank implies that yes **a lot** of losses will not be your fault. 35 games out of 100 to me is a lot anyways. Now if it was MOST of my losses aren’t my fault, that would be clear copium. And if your winrate is below 50%, most of those probably are your fault
I agree with the flex players about one tricks not ruining the game. It can be frustrating sometimes sure, but it also makes the game feel more dynamic and interesting. If every game all players just switched to counter pick the enemy team, every match would feel like mystery heroes and the game would get stale very quickly. I think many of us have had that 1 game where the team asks us to switch even though we are performing really well and don't want to switch because we feel like we aren't the reason we are losing. Some of these 1 tricks probably often feel this way. If they are being stubborn imo it is the rest of the teams responsibility to adapt the team comp enough to enable them to do what they need to do. Awkward says it best, there is no such thing as counters in this game. If you are good enough at your hero, you can make it work in any situation.
"It's bad to main TOO many heroes" the point on TOO MANY. Yes this is a problem and it will not allow you to climb proficiently unless you are insane at the game. Being average at 20 characters is horrible compared to being good with 10. This is not an opinion by the way, humans can only store so much information you are actively hindering yourself if you main TOO many heroes. It's not bad to main many heroes the emphasis is on TOO many.
17:02 Support is way too strong! Their hits do more DMG, they can heal, they all have a way to escape. It’s unbalanced and unfun! How is it fair that SUPPORT can also DO DMG like a DPS but also self-regenerate and HEAL team mates. Imo the DMG of all Support should be decreased 15% except Ana and Moira since she was nerfed properly! Kiriko, Illari, Bap, Zen, Lucio etc. it’s not balanced when you look at reports and the supports did the same if not even more DMG than DPS and also healing! It’s so dumb!
As much as everyone is right that comms are important, when was the last time someone said something actually useful in your games? They don’t they just moan and say slurs
7:25 no situation where it is not better? You’re not being honest mate. It’s absolutely better to not be in voice when the callouts are really just telling you swap no don’t swap, go in, no don’t go in you’re feeding, you suck, get off rein. And let’s be honest that is 99.99% of coms below gm1 if not t500.
in my experience playing every kind of competitive game, if your teams comms are bad then you aren't doing much yourself to improve them. sometimes people are garbage or toxic or whatever, but even in gold and plat i win almost every single match where my team is on comms and its close to 50/50 otherwise
You’re probably right, I don’t experience those things often, I haven’t been below high gm in years so I have less of an understanding of lower ranks. Also I play on console where most people who want to talk shit are too scared to actually do it in vc and instead type it or say something after the game is over. The reason I said what I said is that I believe everyone should be in vc atleast at first so if there is someone trying to communicate you can hear that
@@ladyinwight considering the rate blizzard has released in dev blogs it’s very likely your perception of your win rate between “good coms” and “bad coms” is heavily skewed. There’s hard data out there that heavily suggests there is no real difference provided you use pings. Perception in this game is very often not in line with reality, we saw this a lot before they started showing us our losses and people thought they went 5-0 and derranked because they forgot about the losses
Kiriko is still very strong, and while Illari is strong, she isn't as good as Ana or Baptiste. If you look at owl team comps you will see one of those two characters in every single match, while in top ladder you'll actually find Kiriko is picked more than Baptiste.
Echo also can do everything, she can flank, she can spam chokes, she can tank bust, she can offangle, she can fly like pharah to take advantage of those maps where pharah often doninates, and she can even win poke duals with widows since widow now has 175 hp, its not hard for a good echo to land a shot with the sticky combo across the map on widow and at worst, youre trading in that situation and since ashe cant 1 shot you, you often win that dual if you can land your shots, just landing projecriles across junkertown first point consistently isnt easy 😂 The only thing youre not learning in the dps role as echo is to hit your shots on hitscan but if youve ever played any other fps, you should be good at hitscan, its why ive never seen a reason to hard grind a hero like ashe or widow because my aim on hitscan and snipers is just already extremely good from games like apex, destiny 2 and even pve games i play. Playing echo is bascially be a flex dps without swapping lol and shes so underrated as learning echo is arguably better then learning tracer in my opinion because while people say hitscan counter echo, those same players forget she has the most broken flank ability in the game, no footstep sound so often times you cant hear an echo sneaking up on you and by the time you realise, shes stuck you and has her laser focused on you, and then shes gone inna blink of an eye before anyone can catch onto what just happen to your ass 😂
While you are correct that Echo can do everything, some of those things are locked behind an ultimate and she is also incredibly hard to master which is why you'll see that her pickrate is relatively low in top ladder but pretty high in owl currently.
@@Cometjoben I wouldn't say any of that is locked behind her ult. Shes just super versatile but inna game like ow where you can change your hero like the weather, why would you need echo when shes bascially a jack of all traits, master of non, like she can tank bust but bastion, reaper, mei and so many other heros fk up tanks more easily, or while you can argue if tracer is harder then echo in general, its definitely easier to flank as tracer and genji since both have fail safes with their recall and deflect, or even flying which is one if her biggest strengths, pharah does aerial spam much more easily then echo, just echo can do all of these without going back to spawn. But it definitely does have alot to do with how hard she is just in general with her high mechanical demand and heavier focus on positioning as well since shes the size of a tank, I think just to play echo is as hard if not harder then tracer, but when you have an average acc of 33% on her with your best being 68% acc inna game, and you have games where you've hard carried teams against quad hitscan d.va, she really is just the best hero to 1 trick. Maybe the only hero you really ever should 1 trick, because there hasnt been a single meta that echo hasnt been good, and I've been gm as echo since season 1 of ow2 lol And I used to be flex dps, in ow1 and I also got tank to masters and support to gm in ow1 playing flex as those roles and was just all around flex before role queue, but ever since echo dropped, I've been a 1 trick because she feels like the only hero that trully can do everything and fit into every comp.
She cannot heal and she cannot tank without her ultimate, and it’s arguable that she can’t really tank because with her max hp cap and for that same reason it’s almost always better to duplicate the dps or supports anyway. So yes, some of her versatility is locked behind her ultimate. That being said, I’m not entirely sure what your point is but If I’m understanding correctly it’s that Echo is the best character to one trick because of her versatility and to that I say, no she isn’t. Tracer and Ana have always been viable since the game released. You may argue the same for echo but you’ll find that there have been more metas that echo was mediocre while Tracer and Ana wasn’t. Even now, in a high damage meta where echo should thrive, Tracer has a higher pick rate overall in ladder and Ana has the highest pickrate in the game. By no means is Echo a bad character, there are simply more factors in the game that cause her to fall short of being the best character to one trick in comparison to Ana or Tracer.
@@Cometjoben dude i said in the dps role, ofc she cant tank and support, where did ever mention those are reasons shes a great 1 trick, I'm playing dps not support lol And as for why tracer is picked more, its honestly simply because people have so much time on her, it's the same reason genji has a crazy high pick rate despite being trash, people have played genji so long that even after you nerf him into the ground, these players find new ways to keep making him look so good ge gets nerfed again 😂 Echo hasn't been out quite long enough for us to see this happen, it's also why people sleep on her skill ceiling, most havnet even began to touch it, meanwhile to compete with the best tracers at this point, you're competing with a endless skill ceiling hero who's been out like what? 4 or 5 years longer then echo? Echo also has an endless skill ceiling just no ones really pushing it and even pros I see often tap out against to many hitscan even tho echo actually can thrive against hitscan if played right, often when I face multiple hitscan those are the games where my acc on echo starts hitting a 50 to 60 average because I have to land more shots and be more stealthy which if you look at most echo pros even in top 500 they often dont have a higher best acc then 30 to 40% because they play more spammy, which works if you're not facing to many hitscans that will hit you the second they see your shots spamming from a direction because you gave your location away before you're ready to hit your shots from a good offangle or flank.
@@Cometjoben and ana is a support so that doesnt count, but ana doesnt work into everything because if your whole team goes dive, what are you gonna do? That situation takes more effort to overcome as ana then overcoming hitscan as echo, but yes people do it on ana because ana has been out so long that you have way more players dedicated to ana, you have supports that have played the game since ana came out and they have barely played anything else but her and then when they play other games they play snipers there too and now they're just a sniper god so they play her into dive but ideally you shouldnt. Same with tracer, what if your other dps is on mcree or sombra and the enemy tank is just running your team over with good supports and the sombra on your team cant hack the tank to win, is it easy to deal with the enemy tank being the enemy teams carry as tracer? No its extremely hard but these tracers have played her so long they manage to make it work because theyve only ever played tracer since the dam games been out 😂 And my point is that echo actually has the easiest flaw to overcome out of the 3, I almost wouldn't call it a flaw tbh, but she also has no extreme strong suit, whereas tracer and ana both have very defined strong suits, tracer can dive a backline and stay in it for ages, so even inna heavy heal meta, yes the tracer wont kill much but shes gotta cause so much disturbance in their backline that shes still viable rn off her strong suit and ana heals more then any other support if you land your shots and has 2 ways to shut down most tanks and win duals if you can land them and use them properly which anti nade is so op that it's a reason to play ana by itself and you could argue ana needs a nerf but shes a fan fav so theyll never let their fav hero get nerfed and as long as that anti nade exists as her strongest quality, you can heavily lean on that in games youre outmatched and make up the diff with skill but echo has literally no strong suit but she has the most versatile kit in the game. Tracer also struggles on maps with alot of high ground, whereas echo works perfectly fine in both, shes great in brawl for the same reason hanzo is great in brawl, she takes those offangles while the brawls happening and just pressures so dam hard with her tank busting abilities that even on tight enclosed brawl maps she is able to really thrive. But that bascially is echos strong suit, shes versatile lol inna world where you cant change heros in game, echo might actually need a nerf, a tank buster that can flank and fly and isnt even contested by widow and other heros like that badly? Yea she would get played on the regular as she would be one of the most logical choices, going into a match that you have no idea what you'll be facing. But as it is now her strongest quality isnt needed in how the game works, it's just nice you have a fun hero with a high skill ceiling that's that versatile.
I love how most people agree to be in voice chat. Yet 0 people are on voice chat. Also the person complaining that the toxicity hinders him. NOT EVERY GAME IS TOXIC! I’m willing to have a soft bet that they are toxic and bring it upon themselves
dude sometimes you tell someone to slightly adjust their gameplay and they start flaming you 😭 maybe it's because i'm a girl but i've had someone start just constantly insulting me the whole game because i told him to stay in los for heals
@@katerinagagne1809 yeah people are awful at handling criticism it’s insane. I swear this only happens in OW. Lol. Giving up after the first team fight is insane too me that just shows they never made a comeback at anything in their lives. OW attracts some of the most wildest people I’ve ever met.
@@ZarelidT i also play splatoon and i think they have similar issues where players are drawn to blame teammates, which makes things very frustrating as you feel like you have no control over the game. the more i focus on myself and what i could be doing better instead of my teammates in those games, the less toxic i get
Rest in peace Cookie, they got a week left before the mafia gets them. And yeah of course zen players love zen, but I think we all know he can be an issue lol Also yeah support is broken your camera man is whack, I'm a flex player myself and support is definitely the most fun role to get since you're probably the biggest threat and just abusing your cooldowns while casually 1v1ing any of their DPS trying to dive you.. holy
I dont agree that Supports are OP. At most slightly overtuned, but every Support actually has the ability to survive on their own now which is a really good thing and needed in this 5v5 format, or they just topple over. Simply buff (Primarily Tanks) other roles so that they can also feel good to play as and not miserable, just like what happened with Support (Because early OW2 Support was literally just Dead by Daylight and thats why almost no one played Support at the time besides to try out Kiriko). My thoughts as a GM 2 player 🤷
You argue that other roles should be buffed so that it is not miserable to play as them, that statement alone shows that supports are too strong. Also if we buff tanks so that they can actually fight back again support players will complain that they get rolled over by the tank so easily. I agree with you that supports should be able to stay alive and have some skill expression so my suggestion is we nerf the impact of some of the support’s fight winning abilities while keeping their ability to defend themselves the same. Some examples would be, -Suzu gets an increased cooldown so players must be more careful when deciding to use it selfishly or for their team -Biotic Grenade reduce the amount of time it’s anti affect lasts on tanks - Immortality Field reduced minimum hp threshold to 5% -Illari Change her headshot multiplier so headshots do a max of 100 so you must fully charge to two shot someone and decrease her affective range Also change it so that when she breaks her own turret it starts the cooldown at 50% I also believe Zen needs changes to fix the discord issue I just don’t have a good suggestion
What i feel like also, is that as often, your tank and DPS aren't protecting you, you need to be able to defend yourself, because damn being dived non stop and being helpless would make speople just stop queing support.
@@Cometjoben I'm maining Zen, and while I agreethat discord need some reduction, at the same time, is it's kind of his only defense. he has 0, Zero, nada, mobility and way to heal himself except wasting your ult. And his healing is meh. The whole question is how to rework the discord without making the character a throw pick.
@@rouliettapouet9213 yes that’s why I said ZEN needs some changes not just the discord because he would need something to make up for the power lost in discord
@@rouliettapouet9213diving supports that isn’t Ana or Zen feels completely meaningless since they either A. Have an escape option that makes the dive useless B. Survive long enough for their teammates to peel or C. They win against the diver. I don’t disagree that you should be able to fight back against dives but it shouldn’t be even or sometimes even slightly favored towards support because they output damage comparable to dps while also having util to survive 1v1s
Support role being “overpowered” is such a trash take Support is literally a stand alone autonomous role. When we lose the game doesn’t go “don’t worry hun. Your dps and/or tank were bad. You’ll get a softer loss” and when we win go “ yay you totally won because you hard enabled that team. Go you” it’s literally win or lose that’s it. I have duo queued support before and our Dps sucked so we went bap mercy, mercy pocketed me as bap and I dropped a good 14k damage 40 bomb game and we won when I started playing the dps and we just played in with our tank and sort of let out dps so whatever the hell they had planned that game. If my fate wasn’t SO dependant on total random dice roles I’d be up for support being wound back but we are judged graded and rank adjusted as characters who have game changing impact, so give us game changing impact 🤷♂️
If you were better than the other players in your rank and you play consistently, you will rank up regardless of random factors. If your games are determined by how good or bad your teammates are, you may be in a rank that properly reflects your skill.
Supports have so much game changing impact, it's just the majority of supports, especially at lower ranks, treat supporters like healers and just heal-bot. Support is such a stupidly powerful role, there are times when a Support can off-angle, flank, or focus on damage and shift the momentum of the fight. The problem is, most players don't know how to balance damage & heals (also, teammates don't always know how they should be playing with their supports playing properly
the only well balanced support in that matter of balancing damage and healing is moira, maybe nerf that if she heals multiple people her heals are slightly worse and you have overwatch most balanced easy to play hero
that is a skill issue lol, support have always been very influential to games, since ana has been out you've always been able to anti someone and delete them from far away, just don't heal bot
@@katerinagagne1809 supports shouldn't be influential Do you ever see field medics tak up weapons and kill everyone in wars? They can help and shoot No it's the troops and tanks that do the work, tanks having the biggest influence because it takes a lot to take it down and it can blast you with one hit Support shouldn't be able to outdo both a DPS in a duel nor certain tanks
