Do Exotic Driver Materials Make Loudspeakers Sound Better? 

"Do exotic materials make loudspeakers sound better? Yes or no?" "Well, to answer that, let's start at the beginning: long ago there were animals who roamed the earth, they were called dinosaurs..." KIDDING! I'm a big fan of the channel!

Fun fact: Kellogg and Rice worked on development of a speaker that could reproduce, without any coloring or distortion, the infamous “snap-crackle-and-pop” of their Rice Krispies cereal.

My parents had at home when I was a kid the Pioneer SX-1010 Receiver with a pair of JBL L100 speakers. At the time I had no idea how high end that system was.

It's very good to see the face (and voice) behind a company's products, makes me trust their products more. Very jaded coming from the IEM industry where 90% of brands (even the huge ones) are just literally randomly stuffing Chinese drivers into shells, with no engineering or correlation with price whatsoever.

Just to clear up some history, Altec Lansing did not become JBL. James Lansing left Altec Lansing in 1946, and founded a new company called Lansing Sound, Incorporated. Altec Lansing had issues with the name of the new company, so James Lansing changes the name to James B. Lansing Sound, Incorporated, which was eventually shortened to JBL. Both Altec Lansing and JBL still exist, however, Altec Lansing has dwindled to a shadow of its former self.

I remember the Crutchfield catalogues in the 80's and seeing Cerwin Vegas in it and wishing that I could afford them. Settled for the biggest Technics and Jenson speakers that I could afford from a store called Silo which sold audio gear back then. Got out of audio in the early 90's to start a business. Recently got back into it and am utterly amazed by what is available for great prices (to me) love the channel etc.

Thanks Gene, appreciate your explanations and efforts testing these cables. Most informative!!

Great video Gene! I always wondered what were the differences in Speaker Materials & why they all sound different. Very interesting & informative.

Excellent video. Perhaps the most informative speaker design / construction video I've watched.

My man used zoom BEFORE the epidemic LMFAO

I've always liked the aquaplas treated paper cones JBL used, and high end paper/pulp cones in general.

Really enjoyable discussion! I will now include RBH in my speaker search.

You do a great service to all of us...Great info! I noticed on all the old Polk SDA & non SDA speakers I bought they were treated with some type of sticky coating. Was that a benefit to stop the ringing effect?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge guys!! Greetings from Mexico

if you look closely at the Kellogg rice design, you see it in fact has a moving coil driven element and the is in the middle of the voice coil, like wheel spokes. The stationary magnet is a dc powered electromagnet.

I would love to see some more reviews and measurements with speakers that use sandwich driver construction. More specifically from companies like Focal since they pour a ton of R&D into every driver they make. I have a pair of Aria 948's, which while not cheap, certainly sound amazing to me. I would be very curious to see how their stuff stacks up against a company like RBH, which seems to use more readily available materials that have been very refined in the design department for their products.

I heard (or read) that the first speaker was an electrostatic using pig skin for the diaphragm which wasn't very practical but now you can buy electrostatic speakers with lower measurable distortion than any dynamic speaker. I own electrostatic and dynamic speakers including some vintage speakers like the AR-3.

The only criticism I would bring applies to many interviews -- people want to use supporting material on their computer, etc., but never seem to have it organized or readily accessible. Organize, people, so that fumbling around with graphics does not become a detriment to your presentation.

This has convinced me to listen to RBH for my next system!

I had Infinity reference. The Pure poly (Watkins) woofers were dual impedance . They sounded pleasant, but the pure poly was too soft and tended to sound that way. Arnie Nudell later developed graphite injected poly and those woofers (IE: Kappa 9) were a big improvement in rigidity.

I dont think people give Klipsch enough credit on the materials used both in the horn tweeter and mid/bass drivers.

Good and fun filled video, thanks.

Amazing, thank you so much!

John Harvey Kellogg [1852-1943] --> doctor, inventor of cereal (corn flakes): Edward W. Kellogg [1883 - 1960] --> Speakers

I loved the sound of those CV (dhorm) horn loaded dome tweeters. For rock nothing sounded more real, except for Klipschorns and La Scalas

many thanks i have great respect for the RBH designer 22 minutes in giving credit to Infinity and the founders -i must hear some RBH - he had me in stitches blowing his dads speakers up -I did the same thing -not a pleasant experience !

GOOD INFO IN BETWEEN THE HIMS AND HAWS.

Long story short: The ideal cone has zero mass, has infinite stiffness and infinite strength as well as infinite damping ratio.

What do you of speakers who as conic plug in the center of the cone

What a nice video!!! Miss the old intro!😋

Mr. Jean great topic great informative information about speakers but I have a question I have the Marantz 9.27 receiver and I was wondering how do I get music to play out of all of the speakers?

I'm a big fan of Dynaudio's MSP drivers. Magnesium isn't that exotic, but their driver design is phenomenal.

I also bought a pair of JBL LS speakers purchased from Circuit City.

In the near future I might make a mid bass pair of 12 inch woofers in open baffle to strengthen the bass of a pair of Maggnepan 0.7's or I might save up for a DWM. I will audition the DWM next month when I go to Wilmington, DE for the opera which is closer to Overture Audio Video to make my final decision. Magnepan did some experiments with their 30.7 for condos system which uses cone speakers in an open baffle to get stronger mid bass. If I make my own open baffle with the 12 inch woofers what might you suggest?

Just one question: where can I buy a bottle of Audiohol?

Every minute is worth in this video. Could you throw some more light on different materials that are used in AMT drivers? You mention mylar with aluminum conductor. Are there examples of more materials in such drivers? Today more companies are coming up with AMT drivers. Thank you for the video.

excellent, informative discussion, thanks!

I've never seen a metal cone, or a ceramic cone for that matter, that didn't have a whole lot of spurious resonances and distortion that didn't require tons of aggressive crossover over-engineering just to try to get those breakup modes down in level, and even so, much of that breakup is audible in the frequency response. I've also learned over time that good paper drivers deliver a much more natural tone and timbre than other materials....

great video

Very informative video. In regard to a heavier cone, I note that f=ma and f= I'• dl x B. So, if m (mass of cone) increases, you just increase B (the strength of the magnet) and a (acceleration of the cone) remains the same. It is the second derivative of cone motion (acceleration) which produces sound. I was disappointed that you did not discuss mid-range drivers. There is also more possible difference there since they come in both cone and dome. I am really interested to know if these sound different.

Monitor Audio has gotten great sound from their C-CAM (ceramic coated aluminum magnesium) drivers and they aren't insanely expensive. B&W, Quad, and Wharfedale have gotten good results from Kevlar cones in their woofers.

I like Audioholics Papay spinach arm.

Does anyone know what kind of material it is when a cone looks glossy?... And I don't mean that it's like smooth plastic glossy but when the surface is more coarse and it almost looks like someone put black nail polish on the cone. - Is that just paper cones treated with some kind of plastic to stiffen it or something? The speakers I'm talking about, by the way, are by MB Quart... SR 800 something or other... But they really stand out from other speakers I have because they look like that, while the others look more matte, either like paper or rubber.

Sorry to hear RU-vid does not have a quality conferencing software. Their audio is bad enough as it is. I'm quite happy with my Genesis 7.2Cs titanium transducers and ribbon tweeters. The spun Ti cones are very clear. With a sub they are great for my apartment.

I like good ol' fashion paper cone and doped cloth surround for the woofer but, with an aluminum basket, big motor, a phase plug, and shorting ring, for the tweeter a large format ribbon tweeter such as the aurum cantus g1.

All good, but we keep forgetting that accurate speakers make bad recordings sound *bad*. There is something to be said for good old pulp cones and silk domes - they are forgiving. My ancient Advents were never brutal to bad recordings. Everything sounded good while great stuff still sounded great. Lets not forget Magneplanars. They are low mass/high rigidity, but in an entirely different way and primarily due to application vs materials - material to motor surface ratio. It's basically 1:1 where a large cone is controlled by a relatively small voice coil. Too bad about the dispersion thing...

Iv seen metallic subwoofers in car audio create indents in its self. Sorta like its bending or flexing too hard possibly ?

very educational ... keep up the good work. has me thinking twice about aluminum based drivers, which never impressed me before. god bless science/technology as we sally forth :)

Are those the ones with the granite cabinet?

FYI, waveguides matches the dispersion pattern of tweeter to that of the woofer. Smooth power response is very important and not usually possible without waveguides. Of course gene does not know anything about dispersion. He criticized a commercial manufacturer for using a tweeter in B&W style but without the back chamber. Gene, forget the back chamber taper loading for the tweeter. The diffraction benefits are enormous. Limited knowledge is a very dangerous thing.

Certain exotic materials have their place. I believe SVS uses a really strong material for their PB-16 sub cone to maintain its shape and accuracy considering the power output of the amp and size of the cone, although that particular sub also has a rather large VC to combat that too. Some of the companies claim that certain materials are really light, yet strong to help with transient response and efficiency, but I haven't seen any unbiased objective testing to prove that. It all depends on what you define as sound better I guess.

May I get feedback on my hypothesis here ? Please feel free to point out what I am missing in regard to different analysis while under signal control (Frequency Response), and NOT under signal control, (Spectral Decay) I get continually silenced on a different audio form. There, they have people of the mindset that there are no such thing as fast woofers. I disagree with this completely as a function of speaker mass. Many are suggesting the speaker systems ability to stay agile despite the mass when responding to different frequencies negates the consideration that there are fast woofers. I suggest that the frequency response analysis relates to the spectral decay ONLY through the driver's mass. I further hypothesize that the spectral decay is a far more relevant measurement of how a speaker will perform in relation to its mass, (outside of secondary servo control designed to artificially dampen movement in real time). I assert that the analysis of frequency response is all about under signal control while the decay is with NO signal and therefore frequency response should never be completely extrapolated over the spectral decay. The spectral decay is significant due to music having many nulls. The ability of a speaker to stop producing sound in the time domain has an analogy. With the caveat of one being a time delay to low decibel, and the other being the lowest achievable threshold. The spectral decay could be considered similar to the black level specification of a computer monitor. There are voids in sound reproduction and there isn't much logic in dis-considering the speakers performance in relation to its mass. In short, fast woofers do exist. Caveat: Crossover design can, and has been used to arrest frequencies that tend to have higher response that translate to addressing, and eliminating a "leg" seen in the spectral decay. I still assert that the mass will influence the over steepness of the decay, across the remaining spectrum outside of any resonance anomalies.

That was a hell of an information bomb video! 👍 He is a specialist for sure, thanks. PS: I love Cobra Kai too but the 2nd season is not like the 1st 😒

what type of amp was used to blow those speakers:???

I knew your conclusion before starting, but good job and great trip down memory lane!

Absolutely

I always liked anodized aluminium for some reason

Now I'm ready to collect coke cans and start experimenting. Thanks for everything you do.

I have some great speaker cables for Gene, but they must be kept at 6 degrees Kelvin. Even a little nippy for little Nipper!😂

Great topic for discussion. 😁 I personally seem to like treated paper. It's all what a person prefers. Had Monitor Audio Gold, yuck, way too bright for me! Just acquired JBL Sudio 590's with their paper woofers mixed with a compression horn tweeter and I am in HI-FI heaven! That and finding about the streaming service Qobuz. I'm a believer! RBH is a great company to interview because they are into speakers and music and not just graphs on a computer screen!🧐🤭🤫Heck, if paper is good enough for a Wilson Audio, it's good enough for me! And these paper treatments make the paper strong and light!🤔😉😎🤓.

This is a Subject I am looking forward to hearing about, been shopping for a new set of subs and it been years since my last purchase.

sound transducers had to exist well before 1925 as there existed telephony, radio wave transmission.

Gene, I understand that there is a difference between 4ohm and 8ohm speakers; could you please explain what makes them different on a mechanical/component level? Preferably in layman’s terms for us non-engineering folks. Thanks!

My Phase Technology bookshelf’s have a tech called VDT ….Vapor deposited titanium coating on the woofers. They are the Teatro series 4.5’s. Does that coating do anything? Who knows. Sounds good tho.

Yes.

Paper still the material of choice for Scan-Speak

Only ora graphene cones/headphones provides the extended and clearer sound you can instantly point out.

I am sure this does not apply to "run, don't walk" when a speaker is advertised with the word "digital." I needed a DC power supply of 10 Volts at 10 Amps for the cathode heaters on my SET vacuum tubes and all the filter capacitors big enough to work, including the 4.5 Farad capacitor I needed to get pure enough DC at that amperage are called "digital" capacitors.

I want to make a home theatre I’m thinking Polk s60 ore Paradigm 6000f Whut is better

The only drivers that one can hear the materials used is the tweeter. The materials used, aluminum, beryllium, etc, have their own sonic signatures you can hear. Only one that does not is silk, and the "smooth as silk" cliche applies. Silk dome tweeters are the only ones that are dead neutral and don't seem to add their own sound to the music. Some like the sound of Focal for example, but to my ears it sounds like two pans being banged together and get fatiguing real fast to my ears.

Altec Lancing went on as their own company and James wanted to start a new company and couldn’t use his name because he had sold it….to Altec Lancing.. So James had to use his initials for his new company JBL.

I wouldn’t agree that less bouncing material is better for suspension cause this means low Qms, and correspondently high Qes, and low Tl, and so forth. In another words that is not good for a sound. What is good is high Qms, low Qes, high Tl, less dependency on a dumping factor (cause a crossover defines a lowest output impedance, not an amplifier), and so on. This is why aluminum cones looks great but need too much compromises

I have a pair of RBH bookshelves with aluminum cones - nice, neutral sound. Feel like I do understand the trade-offs in speaker design a little better after watching. PS - when he laughs, Shane sounds like Winnie the Pooh!

That is not moving magnet, it is electromagnet used for creating strong magnet field in voice coil gap. Small voice coil is then attached to cone. Today this is like reinvented hype called field coil drivers.

I am trying to fix 8 small speaker surround rotten foam it disintegrated by Japanese high humidity and dust that attracted by static on Hartman Kardom sound sticks 3 the

Belium driver's ❤️👌

When it comes to cone material I can't help but in my mind paper pulp is just superior sound wise such as rich and warmth smooth bass response and polypropylene is just cheap like the impression of cheapness of most plastic products and so many cheapo speakers using PP and metal cones probably tinny like cymbals and sheet metal . It's not based on real world comparison or reality it's a mental thing I can't get over by associating them to items not even related to speakers.

Yes I bought a speaker from a van once. But today you can buy a hundred different ones on Amazon with one click...

1929. Looks like they got it right from the get go. Same as the reciprocating engine, be it steam, gasoline, diesel, any volatile gas.

moving coil high reactance

MY FRONT LEFT AND WRIGHT AND CNTRE AND SUBB ALL HAVE ALUMINIUM DRIVERS,AND FOR SOME REASON THEY SYNC BUEATIFULLY.PART OF A 5.1 SURROUND SOUND SYSTEM.😉👌

Great info . Drones on.

Am I the only one here who kinda gets the impression gene isn't the sharpest tool in the shed?

Love what you do,very interesting BUT people buying a pair spekers cannot be bothered to find out all of this, not trying to be negative in anyway.

Jurassic dude on protein shakes

The poor sound quality of the stream made me suspicious of the content there in🤔

B&W Continum for the win!

*_Yes, of course, there is a reason paper loudspeakers are still popular, they simply sound better and don't produce that nasty ear-drilling third harmonic distortions... In fact, some of the best sounding speakers are still paper._*

LOL - The best drivers in the world (Scan-Speak) are paper... The classic 8545 and the Revelator still rule them all. For tweeters, textile still wins there too. BE tweeters, despite being in fashion, often don't perform as well. Aluminum is fine for woofers, but the FR breaks up at xover if you use them as a mid-woofer. Again, SB acoustics "satori" woofers, and SS still use a lot of paper drivers for woofers and they sound + measure awsome.

This looks like something Ozzy Osbourne or Zakk Wylde would have at home... > 17:45

Voxativ uses Japanese calligraphy paper.

Well... diamond (carbon crystal) is expensive and exotic. None of the speakers I heard so equipped impressed me. The tweeter stuck out like a sore thumb. Titanium? pffft. Give me scan speak or Vifa silk.

My Magnepans clearly do not have paper drivers and it is hard to listen to bad recordings.

oh please, this is the reason why speakers are highly overpriced and all the cult: the misinformation and lack of product description. the standard in any speaker driver must be sandwich cone and it's ridiculously cheap and stupid to do. just make a mold and use resin infusion or vacuum bagging with epoxy and 25gsm carbon fiber mesh or mat (if you can access to an autoclave put it in there to cure). you can make two cones and use an hexagon or V sandwich structure with another mold, then you glue the two cones and sandwich core with epoxy. this is the most efficient, lightest and damping cone you can make, however if you use thinner unidirectional or woven carbon fiber it will be stiffer and stronger, also if you make a blend of thermoplastic with epoxy it will have better damping.

My driver material is made from my children's tears as I banish them to another room while I perform room measurements... 👍 Sounds good.. 😀

thanks I have my answer. I killed a set of bose 901's with my emotiva system, very disappointed with bose.

Just got a taste of ora graphene headphones / drivers. (It's the future, and it's affordable.) Puts all these drivers to shame.

i hope i am not wrong, but i think it's real, because source from dolby website. they pull-out all limitation to processing and upmixing with other audio format like dts. www.dolby.com/us/en/about/post-processing-policy.html

Chester Rice

WHAT A BORE!!! Great topic, but this dude was like listening to your middle school Social Studies teacher drone on about Caesar and Brutus.