Thank you for sharing your honest opinions. Nice video🙌🏻 I was just randomly browsing, then I found my own work as the first example.😂 I haven’t watched John’s original video but I can responsibly say that as a micro tattoo artist, I respect tattoo rules just as much as other artists. Do you think we didn’t know that fine lines tend to fade more easily? The thing is technology is developing, we have better machines with different stroke settings and different types of needles. And we work hard to perfect out skills and use different strategies to put the ink in the right way and produce details at the same time. It’s just arrogant and ignorant to speak about something that he’s never done before. Let alone the “photoshop” theory, I wonder does he even know depth of field? I wanted the background to be blurred because the focal point should be on tattoo itself since it’s very small already. And we DO NOT use single needles ONLY to do micro tattoos. The mag I use the most to do the shading is 9, even 15, just like him. I’m very disappointed with Inkedmag to produce such misleading content.And you know what’s funny? Inkedmag literally just reposted some of my works 4 days ago. 😂 Anyway, keep up the good videos! 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
@@celle_tattoo Thank you! 🙏😂 After checking out his works, I was like: well, never mind.....A tattoo should never be judged only based on how long it’s gonna last. It’s the design, the effort, the craftsmanship and so many other qualities to make a tattoo as a form of art that really last forever.
It doesn't matter how you put the ink in, how our skin ages and degrades is the same. Gravity isn't like "oh u used a special technique and a certain needle. I'm not going to push this down then." No your skin is an organ we know how it works. You guys have no proof that this new style will last and that's why your selling snake oil.
@@lucihauser7654 it's a gray zone. Everyone's immune system treats the ink different. Some may be lucky to hold singleneedle a long time some not even 8 weeks. I've seen heavily bleeding and reacting skin that kept the ink better than that super easy skin that didn't utter a droplet of blood after X hours. It's a gamble to get these super tiny Tattoos. And I guess they are super as the typical first tattoo of young people that are going to be covered a few years later for something bigger anyway.
I’m a 62 year old man who has been getting tattooed for 40 years now. The difference between then and now is incredible and I think it’s great! Back then, you just walked into a shop, picked out a flash you liked, and got it. And that’s assuming you could find a shop in the first place. Tattooing wasn’t even legal in most places. I appreciate all the advancement in styles and tattoo technology since then and think it’s wonderful. As for micro tattoos, since I’ve been collecting for 40 years, micro is about all I’ve got room for nowadays. And since I’m 62, I’m not all that concerned with having it last for another 40 years either.
That's a great mindset! I'm young (21) and really want to get some fine line tattoos, but I'm worried about them getting too blurry and fading badly. I really want to try brown lines rather than black though. Have you got any experiences with brown lines fading?
10:17 So wrong of her to make it an identity thing when Mesa was critical of the tattoos and the style (which is new, don’t try and pretend it’s some sacred cultural tradition) only. 3/4 years isn’t long enough to see how a tattoo ages.
hot take? getting tattoos touched up is okay. if these artists are discussing the longevity of micro tattoos with their clients, it’s absolutely fine to consider a touch up. after i got my very first tattoo (pretty large, and american traditional) , my artist told me right away that if anything went astray during healing or if i wanted colors brightened up, she’d love to hear so we could touch it up 💖 it healed beautifully and i had no problems, but i can’t believe that people are shocked that some tattoos would benefit from a touch up??
Nobody is saying tattoos don't need touch ups. It's completely different for a tattoo to need a touch in a year vs a tattoo need a touch up in 20 years.
I have a micro tattoo of my cat which looks amazing and I know it will get more blurry over time, but honestly it's the only kind of tattoo that I find pretty enough to get on my body. So it's not like I would have preferred a more traditional style with bolder lines and less detail. There's no point in having a tattoo that will last longer if you don't even like it...
@@brioche8123 I haven't really looked into it yet, most videos and articles i've come across so far tend to compare single needle tattoos/micro tattoos to traditional and neo-traditional tattoos, which aren't my style. But I would be interested in a detailed and realistic style of tattooing that actually lasts, if you have suggestions.
@@florence.5088 I would just suggest doing research on different tattoo styles. I would look at an artists healed work. Traditional tattoos can be detailed. Tattoos with bold lines can be super cute. I think of Melanie Martinez’s tatts. Just keep doing research, you’ll find something. Tattoos are so expensive, it would be a shame for all your pain and money to be for nothing. I also like “ignorant” style tattoos. I’m new to tattoos so i don’t have too much to share. Look at some tattoo tours/videos by people that know their stuff. I like treacle tatts
Lots of ppl will try to discredit all of you for trying new things, for evoluate w/ new techniques, to try again and again by getting better and better w/ a tattoo healed untouched after 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, 1 year, 2 years etc...until you reached a lifetime. Please don't give up on them even if it's painful (just tell yourself that if they are not able to say "with traditional techniques, doing this tattoo w/ these details is impossible", if they are not AUTOMATICALLY thinking that you need to use another technique (and materials) to achieve this then, they just show their lack of knowledge...)
Exactly in Asia where a lot of people still have to hide their tattoos. A lot of places there it's still illegal to have a tattoo, so those small ones are easy to hide under a bandage or make up. I was a tattoo artist for 11 years and got to do some smaller tattoos, not exactly micro. Some times it's just what people want. You can explain to the client about how they will age and that they might need a touch up, and 9 out of 10 times, the client is still good with their choice. Some times they get a bigger piece over that little one, down the line. This guy is sounding like a gate keeper. Theres a lot of gate keepers in the art world, not just tattooing.
True. Im planning on getting small colored flowers and researching about how they would end up in the long term. Hearing him say describe these amazing tattoos as “disgusting” sounds so bitter or whatever.
I have a full body, color, fairy tattoo about the size of a nickel that I got in 1998 (24) years ago. It is still fully legible, the lines are still good, and the color is only slightly faded. I had it done by someone who was an expert in those types of tattoos at the time. So I honestly think it’s truly who you pick as an artist that matters.
@@lemabehroz977 If you feel old being 24, ima just let you know you’re definitely not gonna get younger. With lifespans reaching triple digits, are you really planning on spending a majority of your life feeling “old”?
I think theres a lot of weird hate and egotistic behavior in the tattoo community, especially from dudes who've made it big. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but slander is damaging.
Yeah. I hardly think that naming and accusing someone of photoshopping their tattoo pictures because of how the camera is focused on the foreground rather than the background (lots of cameras do that, especially phone cameras with their auto settings) and then claiming they have no respect for the medium at all can be classified as an opinion. That's potentially jepoardizing someone's livelihood. It's straight up malicious.
It was like that on Ink Master too where realism artists would get reprimanded for not using black outlines. As if traditional is the only legitimate style. Certain styles may require more touch ups but that doesn't make them bad or negate that it's what some people want.
I was just thinking about this- you become what you hate. Tattoos were for those who wanted to go against the grain, not care about what others think, to give the middle finger to judgmental folks… yet so many tattoo artists, especially men, are so snobby and judgemental when it comes to tattoo artistry.
@@tcarmiior people just think it’s irresponsible that people are charging a ton of money to give someone something that’s going to look like an infected wound in three years like the Chinese painting piece
Many tattooists in this genre are constantly studying and looking for ways to improve the quality of the tattoos as they age whether it be the lines or the pigment change in the colors. I have these fine-line pieces from different tattooists on my body and they look great after years have passed☺️ Thank you!! Sol
I’m a fan of your IG! As someone with no tattoos (yet), the whole conversation about micro tattoos is very conflicting. I find them so beautiful but I do worry about longevity. Also I’m fascinated by tattoo culture in Korea!
I don’t understand why old school tattoo artists hate on fineline and micro tattoos. Not everyone wants a huge ass painting with huge ass lines all over their bodies, maybe they’re gonna fade faster or not age well but I’d take that over covering my entire body when I only want something small that I actually like. I couldn’t find any artists that had any micro work on their instas from my town to book and I kept looking for a while until I found one! Just let people do what they want it’s 2021 who the fuck cares?
It is basically because the tattoo artists who do this type of tattoos are basically scamming their clients, we all know that these tattoos fade much faster than tattoos in other styles and they do not say it, they sell you the idea of a well-defined tattoo that suits you It will last a long time, but the truth is that it will fade quickly, it will end up as a stain on your skin and it will have cost you much more than a tattoo in another style. That is the reality, the ink on the skin not only fades, it also expands and if you do not give it space to do so, it will end up unrecognizable.
Because they advertise these tattoos like they'll look exactly as they did day one and day 100. You don't need a massive tattoo, you just need to give it enough space to blur and spread out.
I have a sneaking suspicion that it’s more common for women to get them and it’s rooted in sexism and disdain for more femme things, not even necessarily on purpose. Also there’s a lot of people who may be concerned if these tattoos that they can’t do as well as these artists get more popular, they will be left behind or lose their status
I feel sometimes they don't understand that most people working office jobs etc just don't have the same opportunity to express themselves through bodymod.
The one with the two children is a painting by John Singer Sargent called "Carnation, Lily, Lily, Rose". I'm really impressed with the artist's ability to capture the light effects from the painting. I do wonder how these tattoos will age over time, but even my big black and gray tattoos needed touch up after 18 years, so I'm not sure that needing touch up is a good way to gage how a tattoo ages. And honestly they're so small (and often light colored) that if it turns into a blob it could be covered with another tattoo.
Agreed, it’s a favourite painting of mine and the lighting in the painting is stunning. Undoubtedly the work of multiple studies considering how long the painting would have taken to paint. Especially in a time without colour photography.
I remember when watercolor became a style and everyone shat on it and said the same thing. Years later it’s finally getting the respect it deserves. I have a feeling it will be the same for micro tattoos
@@JaneDoe-kx3yz Personally I love the look of watercolor tattoos, but I agree. They became a fad that quickly faded. Most people think they just don’t look good anymore, and most people don’t take them seriously.
For me the biggest problem with watercolour is to get the design right and to blend the colours nicely. It seems to be a really difficult style to get right. You need to be great at tattooing and designing and maybe 30% of tattooists are and of that maybe 10% would be interested in doing watercolour. Same with tribal. Such an awesome style when done right and I've seen maybe 5 great tribal tattoos in my 20+ years of looking. Hence the bad rep for both styles.
I did a micro tattoo at Solstudio in Seoul and all i can say is that they're very very amazing. The tattoo now has 2 years and it's still very pretty. Of course the colors faded a little bit, it's a normal process, but as she says in the video, the difference is very small! I can't wait to do another tatto at their studio, they're so talented ^^
the thing is though. you shouldnt already be saying "its faded and thats part of the process" after 2 years. I have tattoos from 14 years ago, with solid line work and color, that look the absolute same since 2 months of having them done.
@@dylanmott5865 yeah, but i said "a little bit", which means that it didn't faded that much, is still pretty vivid as before. I think it actually also depends by how you treat it and the type of skin you have. I'm honestly not the best one when it comes to taking care of tattos and i have a very dry skin, so if i don't use creams it's a little bit flaky, which cause the colors to look clear, but if i apply the cream, the colors are vivid, so i think it also depends by the skin condition we have
One of the things I hate the most about the tattoo community is the endless gatekeeping. Everything new is shit, you getting a visible tattoo as your first tattoo you don't respect or understand the culture, everything non traditional is not going to last blablabla. As long as people know that the micro tattoos might fade faster or might get blurry there is nothing wrong with giving people what they want.
😂 I got that sh!t. My first tattoo is a fairly fine lined music note on my hand, its also a copy of my dads first tattoo, which he got in prison. (I got it at an artist nice and proper, to the artists dismay, cause I was freshly 18). But ive never had an issue with a job, not even the jobs that "dont allow tattoos" cause its just a music note, nobody has ever cared, in a good way, Ive never even had to cover it. 😊 I do think its kinda cool though that the fine line tattoos came from prison, kinda makes sense on why my dad got it now. Bonus my tattoos aged well and so has his, neither is blurry. But his aged green, mine is gray. Mine also aged a lot faster than normal, cause I have bad contact dermatitis and my hands are almost always reacting to something, I avoid allergens as much as I can, but its not always possible.
I like the idea of a fading blob tattoo... this is giving me ideas! I don't like the other tattoo styles or even their philosophy. But this is my vibes. Work with the material. Embrace the constraints. Let the colors fade! I wanna be a new bynch in 3 years. Make the blob a background and superimpose a line art vibe on top of it. NOW I want a tattoo!
okay that's so cool though, letting the undetailed tattoo fade so you can have a completely unique background, and just layer. I know that there are people who will black out their tattoos or go over again and again, and this just feels like a more aesthetically pleasing way to do it
Exactly! I have large fine line tattoos & this has always been my philosophy. If they blur to the point of being as unintelligible as people claim, then i’m sure it would look amazing as a textural background
I think the basis of what he said it correct. As long as the artists explains to the client in 5 years their 2000 tattoo that’s 1 inch will be a blob, people can get what they want.
Pony literally has only (that I’ve seen) about 3 to 4 actual examples of these micro tattoos aged. The oldest being 2yo. As far as micro tattoos aging: it seams pretty common sense. We know coots do not hold well, we also know that the body natural biological skin renewal never ceases, so it will forever be trying to get rid of the ink. The cells move and the lines blur, so if we use a traditional tattoo as a example (which are known for their longevity) you can still pretty accurately predict what a micro will look like based on common sense, a basic understanding of the bodies regenerative and healing abilities. I think the problem here is rather than establishing a new standard of longevity etc for micros everyone’s trying to compare traditional to micro, when it just ISNT THE SAME. Maybe it just needs to be accepted as as a semi permanent tattoo style that yields beautiful artistic works that can be touched up every few years or just covered up easily when it is no longer wanted or too blurred rather than try to justify it. It does need justifications just needs to be accepted as a temporary tattoo like henna but a little more permanent, not bad or good just another type of body modification.
@@mephistopheles2754 you should do some research on other reputable talented artists and see what they charge. I have over 25 great tattoos, I’ve never spent $2000 on one, and they’re all detailed, well done, by popular artists. I’ve never gotten a touch up and they look just as good as they day I got them. People can get away with charging that much only if they’re in a major city and they have a celebrity following which makes people with no tattoos want to get tattooed by them. & most artists in NYC charge anywhere from $200-$400 an hour and $400 is for seasoned artists who’ve been tattooing for 10+ years.
Im from Brazil and we value fine line tattoos here. Most of our artists are masters in executing them and in my personal opinion, this style is way prettier than traditional. I lived in the US for 5 years and I had 2 tattoos done there, one has been redone since i came back and the other one is just ruinned beyond repair, and it breaks my heart because I did it with my best friend. The artist that did it worked at a shop that takes walk-ins but he was pissed that he had to do a one small word on us. He was super rude and unprofessional, made a thick ugly ass line while saying how great he was and how my other fine lined tattoos were not going to last... They are all older than the one he did and they all look better... I will never understand an artist that talks bad about another artist just because their style is different.
Honestly, happy to hear. I'm thinking about getting a fine line tattoo here in Brazil, and I keep hearing horror stories online. Good to see yours hold up
I have a 3 x 2” tattoo I got in Asia an was blown away by the detail that was put in. Now it’s about 2 years old and still holding up nice, dark and sharp. Really I think it just comes down to how the customer maintains the tattoo but also the artist. Micro tattoos aren’t about tracing lines and riding the tube, some artists just don’t know how to execute micro tattoos. My artist had his face no further than 6” from my skin the entire time 😆 mask and glasses on of course.
This is how tattooing evolves, if we don't try anything new then it will be limited as an artform. It feels like he forgot art is about expression even if only temporary.
☕️ Everyone is always obsessed with a tattoo forever looking the exact way you got it which I don't think is on everyone's mind when getting a tattoo. Someone can choose to grow in and around their tattoos as it becomes a part of their bodies over time. The way your body incorporates and changes your tattoo is also art in itself!
To be honest I'll have a colorful unreadable blurb of 5cm² after 10 years instead of something very big and black that is not my style which will grey down anyway in 10 years. The tone of the og video was very rude. People have fickle minds anyway. Tattoos are perminent but we humans don't have the same tastes even in 5 years. I would get something I really adore and enjoy for that good while personally.
No need for anyone to hate on micro tattoos and no need to hate on traditional black and gray. I personally love black and gray and I don’t have an issue with them fading to gray.
@@mybubbles5552 I don't think my comment is a hate towards traditional. Like I mentioned i say it's not my style anyway and it would still get damaged. This is my look on having a tattoo not a hate towards either style. The og vid mentioned and talked was pretty harsh towards micro tats because it would blur out and was mean to artists and owners that's why my tone might be this way.
What I feel like is also important to consider that sun exposure plays a big part in how a tattoo ages. On top of new techniques, people have become more considerate when it comes to wearing sunscreen and being careful with their tattoos in the last few years. I see that with my mums tattoos. She got two very delicate fairies in 2007. One on her upper back, one on her lower back, they are very detailed and soft with fine lines and while the fairies are both 10cm/4inches they aren't tiny but the details are. The upper one has faded quite a bit and you can't distinguish her fingers anymore, but the facial features still hold up because the guy did amazing work. But she never puts on sunscreen and wears shirts and dresses that show her upper back in summer. The one on her lower back though, barely ever got sun exposure and you can still see the finger details and intricate wing patterns that were done with just colour and no black outlining. Anyways I hate that guy talking down so much on a tattoo style he's not an expert in and not considering that some people don't care if the tattoos might look a bit rougher once they age
I can see where Jon was coming from as most likely these will not age well. However, trashing the art and design wasn't necessary. These are truly stunning pieces but overtime the medium isn't going to do them justice. At the end of the day, it is each persons individual decision based on their knowledge of single needle/micro tattoos whether to get them or not. I think we should focus more on trying to educate people about them rather than shaming them for getting them.
As someone with only big tattoos (I’m talking huge portraits), I have a deep respect for people who micro tattoo. It looks beautiful and as long as the client is happy, that’s all that matters.
I think part of this issue with micro and fine line tattoos is because they are more trendy than other styles of tattoos people may get them or spend a lot of money on one without knowing that they may be more likely to fade or blur over time. I think it’s partly on clients to do research and artists to make sure clients are aware (this goes for other styles as well like realism) that it may not heal well or fade over time.
I am a tattooartist myself and work since 2010 in a studio, I do also micro-tattoos if someone ask for it, the thing about it tho is that it does look great when it's new, the thing about it is when it's healed 1-2 years, and especially after 5-10 years down the line, it's a hot mess and will be! I do tell this to my clients every time. But still, they blame the artist, that's what bothers me about it. So get them if you like but don't blame your artist if we tell you it's going to be a mess. That's it.
I love microtatoos, i think even if they blur over time it just makes a pretty soft painting. I want to get intricate etching style tattoos with fine lines because down the line, i WANT to see it blurred out, where it goes from linear etching into a softer render.
Just something for thought; when he says micro tattoos are not going to last, he means that they’re not going to be readable in 10 years, not even thinking about how they’ll be in 30 or 40 years. Tattoos shouldn’t need to be touched up, unless the healing process messes up.
@@lalycameron6848 but again, it’s not done evolving...we don’t have to settle on some end result that everyone’s admitting we have no evidence of. Especially when the art is still progressing & the artists are dedicated to advancing their genre. I mean, who of these people, would you assume, in 5 years, wants their careers to tank over not having been transparent with 5 years worth of clients? Maybe there’s more to all of this than those not involved, know. 💁🏽♀️
I've been trying to get a tattoo apprenticeship in America for years honestly. All the tattoo artists I've spoken with keep turning me down, saying it's so difficult so competitive and so intense. I really wish that I could help foster a different kind of environment that doesn't seem so exclusive or snooty. The way Jon was talking heavily reminded me of the last guy I tried to get an apprenticeship with.... He was talking about the blood sweat and tears that go into this, and wish me luck running the gauntlet through hell or some bullshit. Like y'all... I can't. It's been so fucking frustrating listening to douchebags like this gatekeeping their shitty and apparently abusive communities. 🙄
@@violetsparkles5453 I think it would be better to not get an apprenticeship than to end up stuck under these people that believe in the pants on head stupid cycle of abuse.. "Oh you think I'm rough, well my mentor hit me on the head" "You have it easy I used to get slapped off the chair and called a screw up often" Some aren't at peace with themselves they just relish finally being the top dog and getting the chance to shit on the next new guy and have impunity. They don't want it to be easier for the next guy, somehow they feel that hurts them, they want it to be just as hard for you (by their judgement), it's a sick mentality.
And this is why so many people just buy shit off Amazon and spend years fucking up people learning what they could have in an actual shop or with a mentor. I wish more people were open to passing on their skills, it's only the dinosaurs with no skill beyond flash and photoshop that are afraid of new blood. If you're good your skill and reputation will speak for themselves.
Wow at 8:17 the tattoo of the two kids playing is an interpretation of John Singer Sargent's "Carnation, Lily, Lily, Rose" which took him two years to complete. That artist is flexing so hard, it looks incredible for the size and time that's passed.
He is correct on the fact that they're not going to be readable long-term. Micro tattooing didn't just start there was a guy doing phenomenal micro tattoos 20 years ago. Needless to say no one really talks about him anymore I don't even think you can find references of his tattoos
I'm from Asia and I dont have a tatoo yet but I'm debating on water color or just black ink. Thank you for the video and pointing out the fact that its less accepted in asia! It is less popular here but I think times is changing. Me personally I don't think I'm ready to commit on a big piece. You don't see big pieces here. Its normally view as for the people who's in the bad businesses. So thanks for standing up for the asian artists I really appreciate it and learnt so much from the video! Will sub to learn more from you cheers 🥰
When Jon talked about a blue flower on a knee at the start of the video, I think he was referring to one of Joice's work. I think it was totally out of line. Her work is very nice and it was very unnecessary, she doesn't even specialise on micro tattoos. Btw: Was having a bad day and found your channel. New subscriber here from Uruguay :)
Just from watching this video, I lost a lot of respect for Jon Mesa. Tattoos are a form of art and art cannot be critiqued by one person. I absolutely love all the tattoos shown and am about to get one similar to the second one by Sol (studiobysol) and any person thinking about getting a tattoo should keep in mind of aging and fading anyways
i feel like as laser tattoo removal has become more popular and easily available, people feel more ready to have tattoos that just aren't necessarily meant to last forever. Micro tattoos can for the most part ALSO be removed a lot easier than traditional tattoos that are really dark - that gives people a lot more freedom in their choices and is something worth considering. Kinda like how the impressionist art movement became really important following the birth of photography! Also I will say that I have a tattoo from one of the artists that were "featured" in that video and I feel really annoyed on their behalf because my artist was SO careful, and meticulous, and made sure 1000% I knew what I was getting into.
So I'm an aesthetician, and while I'm not a laser technician, I have some laser training. Tattoo removal is notoriously the most painful and extensive cosmetic laser process. Tattoo ink sits within the dermis where there is a lot of nerve tissue. No numbing agents other than a little ice can be applied to mitigate the pain. It can take 25+ sessions to remove a tattoo depending on the size, ink colors used, etc. So, while tattoo removal is more accessible and I love that it's an option for those who want it, it's by no means an easy process.
i agree. but it still seems like even for 3-4 years a lot of the details are blown out and faded and thats still not very long at all. I have tattoos that old that dont look any different 3-4 years later. its great that people are getting better at the trade, but if it fades at the same amount 6-8 years in it wont look good at all, it seems?? idk, im still not super impressed. it feels like people have such low expectations of the healing when its like not terrible people think its great. But the cat did look good and it had tons of skin breaks so maybe thats the key.
I have seen some really badly healed fine line/micro tattoo, but I've also seen really bad traditional tattoos. It's really just a matter of doing your research on the artist and style (like you should for any tattoo). It's pretty gross to just disregard a whole style just because you don't like the style
The healed PonyLawson Edward Scissorhands tattoo isn't nearly as impressive as you're implying. All of the deepest shading in the face is gone, it's already evened out with the lighter shading around it. Just about every hard black edge is the neck and shoulders of the portrait as well as the hair is already blurred from spreading. Most of the grey detail in the buckles is almost entirely gone and the different tones of grey had entirely bled into one another. Even parts of the buckles on the throat have closed due to the black ink around them bleeding in. It looks like it's even had a touch up at some point as the highlight in the eye on the left has nearly doubled in size. Just look at how much rounder and softer Edwards face looks. And this is after only two years! To the trained eye this is a massive degradation of the detail. And the fact that he chose this portrait to show as an impressive result after two years shows the limitations of micro tattoos over time. He is 100% a very talented tattooer, his abilities are next level, and even with his expertise, this micro tattoo is going to look absolutely terrible at the 10 year mark. That's the problem many tattooers have with these tattoos, it isn't that it's an "untested" style or something. The reality is that hand poke, single needle, fine line, micro, etc is not "new" and anyone who has been in or around the business for a decent amount of time knows this. You can find tons of fine line and very small tattoo work from the 80s and 90s. And you can't say that the "technology is so much more advanced now", this is also entirely untrue. We may have access to rotary machines now but all that honestly gets you is a quieter machine which needles are attached to differently. The needle groupings are still the same, the penetration is still the same as what has been available for decades. Inks aren't changing, it's still pigment in a liquid delivery which is still affected by it's canvas in the same way. They may have to meet more regulations, but the "technology" of the ink isn't changing. The simple reality of tattooing is that for the entire life of the tattoo, your body is always going to be aging and absorbing and spreading the inks that make up the tattoo. So inks will continue to spread, micro detail will always be lost. No change in machines or inks is going to change this, the inks will always be deposited in a watery, living layer of skin.
i think some of the beef with tattoos like these is the price tag on tattoos that might not last, i think that’s what he was talking about with it being a “scam” but other than that i agree with everything u said
@@okiseenow It's not about charging less than what their time is worth. It's charging $1,000 for a tattoo and not telling the client it will last as long as the 25 cent fake tattoo out of the vending machine lol.
I'm surprised by the difference in the scale of judgement with different tattoos. Someone famous on Instagram can do a microtattoo that makes it 2 years and it is considered a success. I do traditional and blackwork tattoos at a shop. If any of my tattoos look like shit even 10 years from now, then it could ruin my reputation.
Right? If I got a tattoo that looked like a blur in 10 years I’d be so upset, safe to say micro tattoos aren’t for me. Congrats on the solid work btw ❤️
I think if micros were just accepted and standardized as temporary semi permanent tattoos there wouldn’t be such a huge debate. Seams pretty common sense why they don’t last as long.
Aine Rogers micro tattoos have been around for a couple years back, and before that, realistic portraits go back to the 80s maybe even before. I love realism but they don’t heal well, the little details that make them realistic fade so that’s pretty much proof, micro is on an even smaller scale.
Microtattoos aren't supposed to last because of the nature of the skin/technique. If a traditional looks like shit within 10 years (assuming it was well taken care of), that means you fucked up
To be fair, with more time to see long-term results microtattoos probably will start to be held to higher standards in terms of longevity. More artists will hopefully have more documentation of how their tattoos last and it’ll be clearer whose techniques are actually holding up. In the meantime I’m happy to celebrate the small victories as they come lol.
You can change techniques, inks, machines, needles, everything, but you cannot change the way the skin behaves. I respect the mad skill that it takes to make them, don't get me wrong, but micro tattoos WILL look bad over time, because that's just how the skin works. The ink spreads, it's bound to. My English is not good enough for me to explain this in detail. Anyway, a tattoo is going to stay on your skin forever, not for 4 years. How a tattoo looks after 4 years doesn't mean it won't be a blob after 10 or 15 or 20. It's not going to look good. I'm pretty sure that's what he meant. And I'm specifically talking about micro tattoos, fine line tattoos can heal great. It's up to the tattooer to make the clients aware of this, and up to the clients to decide whether they are ok with this idea or not, which then will be a personal choice that I can respect. BTW I've read somewhere that micro tattoos were a trend in the seventies, too, that died out presumably because the tattoos didn't age well. But I have found no evidence of that being true or not, I'd like to know more.
Im a tattoo artist and I even though I don’t like micro tattoos i tattoo single needle fine line tattoos but I use a machine that I got made for this purpose and I use contrast and a subtle out line but I really think we have a responsibility to tell our clients this might not last
*grabs a two year old tattoo and says "it works". of course, it'll still looks good after two years. it's going to look like trash after 10. it's better to be transparent with customers that assume that the tattoo will hold up its quality. maybe these "artists" need to put a disclosure up on their bio/website. i don't have a problem with new styles, i think they're really cool. i just don't like people who deceive their clients. it's exactly the same when artists use crazy filters on their ig page. we all know those don't look like that, not even when it's just been freshly completed. the thing that plagues this industry is dishonesty
As someone who works on photoshop, it’s very obvious that the first example’s photo has been… enhanced. Just look at how the outline of the leg blends into the background while the edges of the teardrop (which are more or less on the same plane as the outlines of the leg) are very crisp. It’s a simple contrasting rule, put a blurry object next to a normal object, and the second one will appear sharper. It’s also a trick that’s quite common in tattoo photography unfortunately. No doubt that the teardrop tattoo is very crisp in real life (at least while it’s still fresh), but let’s not kid ourselves and say that the photo is as is. 🙄
As a tattooartist with about 12 years experience I can say that Asian skin is amazing and I feel like that’s why this micro tattoos are popular there. I had the privilege to tattoo in Hong Kong and I noticed a big difference when it comes to details. Also, new pen machines allows to make more details without disturbing skin that much. I used to be skeptical and I still prefer bigger tattoos, but I believe this tattoos might stay, but it also depends on the client taking care of the tattoo.
I like the saying that goes ‘ every idea was modern once ‘ just like with water colour tattoos , micro tattooing might be a the new idea now , but this idea was needed , and it had to be tested out to see if it actually works or not . With new needles and techniques coming out we won’t see how it will actually look in a few years until we’ve lived that long . I’m excited to see how micro tattoos age and hopefully this will put the generation to come at ease .
To be honest those 2-4 year old healed examples look pretty bad and faded (except the edward one) :/ and that isn’t even a long time. I haven’t seen the video you’re talking about I was just interested in said healed examples. They look absolutely beautiful when they are new though. I also think that just with every tattoo a lot depends on skintype, technique and aftercare.
I have a 3 year old micro tattoo behind my ear. Let me confirm the fact that it does not age very well. The artist I went to actually does micro tattoos all the time as well. The details are still distinguishable but the colors faded pretty badly compared to my other colored tattoos. I’ll need a touch up soon.
I saw his video the other day and I was honestly taken aback by his "critique". It's not lost on me that most of these people he "critiqued" were mostly foreign women. He came with all the anger and disdain while these tattoos are absolutely gorgeous.
I don't think that Jon should have worded things the way he did. He can only talk about his experiences, not what he assumes of others experiences. He shouldn't have ripped into the artists and tattoos in the way he did. This could have been a good video if done educationally. I wouldn't get a micro tattoo because I personally believe you shouldn't have to guess what a tattoo will look like in 20 years. And I wouldn't justify spending the same amount on a tattoo that may or may not last decades, compared to knowing how regular styles will heal. For the same reasons I wouldn't get a watercolour or realism tattoo. However, just because what I look for in tattoos is different to those who do get the more delicate styles, doesn't mean that one of us is in the right. Tattoos are personal and make us individual. We shouldn't bully each other over our style differences. That's just unnecessary gatekeeping. Just let people enjoy life and if you don't like something that they do to their own body and with their own money, then just don't do it to yourself.
I have a fine line tattoo of a sheep, about 6cm by 4cm. Its about 3.5 yrs old now and its aged so well so far!! all the tiny little lines in the face and the fur are still super sharp. I'm sure it will be blurry in another 3, or 5, or 10 yrs, but I don't really care tbh. and I'm sooo impressed with how it looks now
From a tattoo artist stand point i definitely love the look of these micro tattoos, they are so beautiful and the artists are extremely talented! but i do stay away from them myself. 1-6 years isnt really all that long to have a tattoo. those tattoos will continue to age and change for the rest of each persons life. when i discuss these things with my clients, i talk to them about 20+ years down the line. how much touch ups they might need to keep it looking nice. but i dont control the situation, people are more than welcome to get whatever they want on their bodies, i just might not always be the one to do it. The reason i feel they dont last is not because of the quality of art, supplies, ink, or skill. its actually the body itself. white blood cells protect the body by breaking down foreign things. and tattoos are in the sweet spot in the middle of the skin, that allows us to keep them there without our bodies breaking them down and trying to get rid of them. but, that doesnt mean they dont try. and thats how you get tattoo spreading and fading. no matter who its done by or how, a tattoo will spread. Bold tattoos over all, heal and last the test of time even with the functions of the body working against them. micro tattoos after 30 or so years, will not be the same tattoo anymore.
I think there are also many ways of working around the fading of a micro tattoo. First it's much easier/cheaper to get it lasered off if it looks truly horrible after 10 years or so, but also you could work a bigger piece around the original micro tattoo and use it as a detail in the bigger tattoo (a canvas for example). And that all being said, many people won't even care that much about having a blob of colorful ink somewhere on their body.
I ABSOLUTELY LOVE the look of these tattoos but I definitely don’t really like how they look after a few years which is why I decided against getting any despite loving how nice they look when freshly done. Definitely interested in how they’d look 10+ years since they’re recently popularized but also how techniques and technology evolve to hopefully have these styles last longer
The fact 3-4 year old micro is the oldest ones u can find isn’t for no reason. Catfish Carl n Danielle oberosler we’re doing micro tats in the 90s in fairfax Melrose area. Danielle was real good at them. The inks n needles n machines from the 50s to 2000s was a big jump but since 1997 not much has changed. U can get same results w old coils as new pneumatic or electric wonder wands. Look at yogi Barrett. Still a bunch n needles running at whatever speed w blk n color ink. The skill is in the artist. These masters of micro have been doing it longer than ten years n whenever they show anything 4 plus years it looks like trash w blown out lines w exception to a few people who might have taken great care or have great skin. For the most part it blobs up or blows out. I have tattoos from 2000 that still look great n some that the color disappeared completely. Until an adequate amt of people are like here’s my 20 yr old micro tat n it held up just fine you can’t say they will last. Without proof that nobody is showing n micro tats have been around longer than 20 years. So has good ink n needles. I got my Robert Atkinson tattoo because I saw a tat that was ten years old he did n it looked great at that time. Mine are over 20 n most of em look great still w exception to sun damage not his fault. I have 20 yr old 3 lines that look like 1s from Danielle that are close together n I swore would blow out over time. They look great. But micro or mini tattoos hasn’t been proven to stand the test of time yet on a large scale for average collectors. Maybe one day they will.
2 years or 3 years healed is very different to 40-60 years down the track. Getting tattooed in your 20s and living 80+ years I wouldn't want my tattoos to disappear or completely blur out etc.
☕ Got this video as a suggestion after seeing the inked vid that came out recently with Pony talking about micro tattoos. This video was great and I really appreciate broadening the discussion to include other cultures and contexts.
photoshopping and photo editing are two very different things. Almost every "realistic" tattoo I see ages horribly. I hate when someone has their whole arm tattooed and i cant tell what a single image is from 10 feet away
I was just thinking about looking for new tattoo youtubers and you came up on my recommended. U clearly put a lot of time and research into this, you deserve more hype!
I love listening to you talk. You’re so gracious - like how you accepted the comments of people educating you, saying we’re all learning together. Thank you for this video. 🥰
They don't, and you kind of proved it. That 4 year old cat looks washed out and in another few years it'll look like a gray blur. They're neat and if you're fine with a tattoo that will not last 10 years, then go for it. It's your body.
I have a fine line tattoo that’s about 4 inches tall. It has A LOT of fine details. It’s 6 years old now and I love how it’s aged! It obviously isn’t as crisp as it was but no tattoo will be. The lines have softened and blurred slightly in a way that I think is beautiful! I love the way aged tattoos melt and blend into the skin. That being said, it is still pretty clean and clear. Not very different from 6 years ago. Tattoos shouldn’t have to be dark and harsh to be valid tattoos. That’s coming from someone with lots of tattoos of all styles.
I have a lot of anxiety around permanence and the only tattoos I could see myself feeling comfortable with are ones that make me still feel like I can “see my skin under them” for lack of a better description. I’m 1000% down for a future where I have cool rainbowy freckles that still have significance to me :)
I appreciate you being respectful! I believe that people should be able to do whatever they want with their own bodies, and the nice thing about micro tattoos is that if they do end up aging awfully, they're easy to cover up. And you are right when you say tattoo machines and ink are advancing over time! I don't really know if that means micro tattoos will start aging better though? A lot of how tattoos age and heal it has to do with your skin, which you cannot reinvent or update like you can with ink and machines. I feel like eventually we are going to hit a plateau unless we all become part robot lol.
I have been tattooing for a little bit over 13 years now, from my experience I'd say 2 years is not a good metric of how good a tattoo will look on the long long term, I would put the mark around 5 years old. Definitely I think this style can be done correctly taking in account that it will definitely look a lot less sharp later! I would still stick to bold will hold. Also depends a lot on the lifestyle of your clients. I work in a surf town so lots of sun exposure here on my clients and rough conditions in general which would make delicate work like this go bad a lot faster. Great video!
I think you underestimate Jon’s knowledge. Pony does great micros but he explains why he only uses black as the foundation of his images. Pastel colors just don’t hold up so great in any tattoo. Not having an outline won’t help that. From Jon’s point of view a tattoo should be readable as long as you live. Microtattoos probably won’t. (I have one too, but agree with Jon)
I think skin care products have also gotten better - people are better about putting on sunscreen, people are using gentler soaps on tattoos, and even tattoo care products are getting better.
I just found your channel today and I love it. Some things that I really commend are your logic and objectivity when assessing a tattoo or giving your opinion on a piece of work. You are fair and compassionate. You have an eye for small details and bring up many important points to consider that are helpful for those wanting to get tattooed. I love that you talk about how different styles and techniques of tattoos heal differently, how blacking out an area takes lots of skill to give it full saturation, and how the excited mindset both the customer and artist may feel before getting it can also alter your perspective and you may not be as critical as you need to be. All great points.
Hi everyone! I'm 100% on Jon's side as well and agree with others here in the comments saying that 4 years is just a fraction of a person's lifetime. For example the cat tattoo where Celeste pointed out the lines as nicely put in there. I can already see them almost gone completely around her left ear, so you can imagine what's gonna happen to the rest after next 4 years. That's for people who don't have experience with tattoos, so they can see it visually happening themselves. Tattooing has a lot of rules that are inevitably set by nature and I personally just don't see the value in these tattoos despite how beatiful they look. So same as Jon, I'm hoping people get informed by those artists about the inner workings of the human body with tattoo ink. And for everyone reading this, go and watch the video out of which is this one coming from and listen to the guy, he actually explains why these won't work and backs up his reasoning. This video above is just filtering all the "bad" words Jon said and is completely out of context and that's not just my opinion, it's the truth that you can check yourself in under 30 minutes by watching both videos. I could write an entire article about this so bottom line is that this video is just a 17 minutes of disinformation and remember what Jon said: "As long as you tell your client, this is gonna fall apart, I feel like then do it, you know, because honestly, you know, people are entitled to get whatever it is they want on their bodies". I hope everyone has a beatiful day on earth and thanks for reading my words. Bye bye
This comment says it all. This entire video felt like it was made out of spite. It seems she didn't actually listen to what he was saying because she was offended by his demeanor.
@@fioregiallo Plus, Inked's videos are more like banter conversation between coworkers in the same business, but this video took it literally word by word like some sort of presidential press conference. She's kinda missing his points and too tunnel visioned on disproving what he says.
For people that don't like the way trad style tattoos look, they certainly aren't going to want that style on their bodies just because it lasts longer. A quick google search will tell you the risks and downsides to fine line tattoo aging. Let people get what they like
Honestly don't get all the hate. It's always people that are stuck in the past in terms of mentality. A bad tattoo artist can also exist in traditional style. We've all seen it. Bashing one style is incredibly tone deaf imo.
I liked the point you made about Americans trying to dictate how other cultures tattoo, I think that’s something that’s been largely left out of this conversation, and I totally agree with what Joice Wang said. However, these tattooers trying to argue that their tattoos hold up when the oldest examples of aging they have is 2-4 years on pretty young skin? Your tattoo should NOT be aging drastically in 2-4 years unless you’ve been baking yourself in the sun or it had a damaged healing process. I don’t think there’s a way to argue that these tattoos will hold up as well as black work or American traditional or Japanese traditional, but if people’s interest isn’t in longevity, let them live.
I mean yes, they aren't gonna last. But if the artist is transparent about that towards their clients, there is no reason to hate on their work. I don't get why so many "traditional/neo traditional" artists are so elitist in a way. They love to gatekeep and say who is a "real tattoo artist" and who isn't, even based on what kind of machine you're using. It's so dumb if you ask me. Also, many traditional or nea traditional tattoos also age like shit. I mean, people age, what do you expect? I don't get the obsession with making a tattoo look perfect for decades. People who get tattoos know that their tattoos won't look the same after years of aging. Why would I get an ugly, bold, black tattoo when I don't even want one, just for it to last longer? Some people don't suit the traditional style so let them get those damn fineline tattoos. And if they really age horribly, then you can always get a cover up. Tattoo artists like him have an inferiority complex and want something to feel superior about. So they degrade other peoples amazing artwork in order to feel better about theirs. Again, if an artist isn't transparent about it you can critique that he isn't transparent about it, but that doesn't make their work bad or ugly. Getting a tattoo also means that you should do your research. Just like you should do research on getting plastic surgery, or any change you make on your body for aesthetic purposes. So you also hold responsibility as a client to be aware of the things that can or will happen to your tattoo after getting it.
I think if anyone wants a micro tattoo AND/OR a fine line tattoo, especially if they want a portrait or painterly tattoo, you'd have to go in w/ the acceptance that it WILL need touch up. especially if it used any white or light colors similar to the person's skintone. Anything that's not a bolder color will fade away. for example, i can already see the edward scissorhand and clownfish tattoo turning into a black mysterious blob w/ two holes for eyes in the center, and two stripes floating in the air, respectively. It doesn't make micro tattoo and fine line tattoo a poor tattoo, but it is what it is that takes a lot of maintenance for its delicate quality.
Thank you SO much for this video! I've been trying to book for a single needle tattoo for years. Covid set it back, bc I cannot travel for it, and I had plans to go to NYC for the work prior to covid. An artist I love is coming to my town, and I'm excited to book with her, and get my first tattoo! How it will age is important to me. But artistry is important too! I'm nearly 40, and have been an artist my whole life. I make a living as one. I never committed to getting a traditional tattoo, because as an artist, I did not see the artistic style that I appreciate in tattoos until recently. Once single needle and micro tattoos emerged, I knew I found a style that matched me, and my work. I only plan to get grayscale for both aesthetic and healing reasons. I do think there could be issues with color. I am disappointed that such a well known tattoo magazine would print something so biased.
I think where the issue comes in for John, is that he might not have kept up with new developments in tattoo needles. Bugpins and smaller compact needles are better for micro tattoo's, whereas the standard needles are best for the traditional stuff. Besides, once the micro tattoo's start to get messy, they can more easily be covered up with something more traditional. I must say I find the artist who replied that the micro tattoo was on her own ankle must be really flexible, as I self-tattoo quite frequently, when it comes to the lower legs, awkward angles and uncomfortable positions is a pain.
I only have 3 tattoos (soon to be 4) and... i have 1. a traditional styled tattoo, but it has yellow ink 2) a fine line, all black tattoo and 3) a fine line, high contrast tattoo. And while I havent had them for a while, they have healed incredibly and are still vibrant and full of life. Tattoo artists like that forget that a tattoo holding up is also on the person who got the tattoo... If i didnt take care of my tattoos, they would be fading and spreading and looking bad. But i constantly put lotion on them, i use aquaphor for healing them and everything. Tattoo artists who do fine line and micro tattoos, and tattoos with little contrast are amazing and extremely talented. Its not easy putting such a small thing on skin. And often times, they heal incredibly well. because people who get incredibly detailed work like that, care about their tattoos and want them to last...
I'll just say that nomatter how the ink is placed under the skin or what ink is used, the way the body breaks down ink pigment remains the same. It will fade and expand under the skin nomatter what. Even saying micro tattoos is way to broad of a generalization because the longevity will always have a million factors. These include the pigment of ink, skin health of the individual, and ofcourse how the piece is treated after healing including sun exposure. At the end of the day I agree that "micro tattoos" are a choice that people make that want them regardless of the longevity as it is with most tattoos. There shouldn't be any hate on any art. Art is always going to be a perfect representation of an individuals personal perspective. But I also agree that when compared to other tattoo styles micro tattoos by fact of science, will not last as long.
Literally 30 minutes ago before i saw this video, I made an appointment with firstjing. I can't believe i just happened upon this video talking about her work 😂 While I won't be getting a piece exactly like that one, her works are phenomenal, so i'm pretty stoked!!
☕️ I understand why they’re looked down upon, but as we know, different people have different preferences. I like how easily hidden they can be (I’m an Asian in an Asian household) as well as it catering towards my artistic side (just hobby of coloring, sketching, shading) of liking details to everything.
Thank you for this. I’ve wanted a Dr Woo tattoo for years, but have wanted to see some healed after a few years. I don’t want to pay thousands and fly to see him if they don’t last like regular tattoos. Also… I LOVE Pony Larson, somIm glad you featured him too! ☕️
I would LOVE if you did another video where you try to (if possible) see whether the oldest tattoos in this video do still look good 2 1/2 years on and whether there might be ons that are 3-4 years old now! Love your channel thanks for the interesting and informative video🥰
I am tattooed and many of my friends are too. We all have different styles of tattoos. Mine are big neo traditional tattoos which have healed up so well. A good friend of mine has gotten a tiny beautiful micro tattoo and it was very expensive. It was beautiful at first but looks like shit now. She was not informed about how it might look and she payed a shit tone of money for it just for it to look like a hot mess a year later. The artist is a well known micro tattoo artist. All I’m saying is, is I personally think micro tattoos are fine yet I would never pay for a hot mess. I’ll stick with me bei traditional stuff.
☕️ These tattoos are so beautiful! While I understand the concern of them becoming messy over time, I LOVE dainty, feminine tattoos and art in general. If I got a micro tat, I'd research the artist carefully (look at their portfolio plus healed tats) before choosing one to reach out to.
There was an Inked video recently in which some of the artists discussed the idea of tattoos that will fade over time. Some artists were fine with this idea, but most weren't. And I kinda get it because you want your art to always look good. But also tattoos are a decoration on a person's body so how they feel should be the ultimate sign post for whether or not tattoo fading is good or bad or neutral. I just don't get why it's so hard for some artists and tattoo enthusiasts to accept that some people are okay with faded tattoos or tattoos that don't last forever. Like...it's fine.
idk it's beautiful work but personally i just find it super sketchy for artists to charge like hundreds to thousands of dollars for a tattoo that they can't guarantee. i mean if your client is totally cool with it and knows going into it that it'll look real blurry in 5 years and are okay with that. then that's fine.
It is, I was shocked when I heard about the prices some of those famous artists charge The tattoo artists that I follow on social media (mostly just single needle/fine line) cost, as far as I know, comparable to other artists - mostly 50€ and upwards
Sorry but there is clear proof that these tattoos don't age well. 1990 style was full of tiny flowers and butterflies. And that Edward scissorhands was 3.5 to 4 inches not 2. Black micro tattoos gold better as they contain carbon. 2 to 3 years is not 20 years. Look how much they spread in 2 years. The edges and crispy color change alot from year 10 to 15. I see different styles and healed things all the time. I DO think micro can be done well but color too close to their skin will never hold. Much love
I am a tattoo artist and I do small tattoos and I appreciate the respect in your video. Thank you for doing such a good job and you have a new subscriber ♥️
when i got my first tattoo i approached a guy who had tattooed a very close friend of mine, his style seemed a little traditional but i rly trusted this friend so i very politely described what i wanted and he called me a dumbass for expecting something so detailed, and that no one would tattoo my idea lmaooo
"follow" doesn't necessarily mean follow on social media. Before we had social media following an artist just meant you deliberately seek out their work.
When I hear “traditional tattoo” I do not think of artists like Jon, I think of the Māori artists and techniques. I think of my mums traditional tattoos. Multiple cultures had tattoos before modern day western “traditional” tattoos. Now there are newer techniques in the form of micro tattoos. I think it’s ridiculous that he says they aren’t respecting “traditional” tattoos/artists/history etc. Unless he’s out here using carved bones and handmade natural inks to respect and appreciate those who came before him then who shouldn’t less he appear a hypocrite. Every art form has grown and evolved over time and will continue to do so. I don’t think that’s a bad thing. It’s a good thing! ☕️
yes. body modding and tattooing began with indigenous peoples around the world. Art is a dance that evolves over time just like humans and life in general.
thanks for this considerate and thoughtful video!☕️ your calm demeanour and well researched presentation of the topic was a joy to watch. i think it will be interesting to see in 10, 20, 30 years how the style techniques and pieces evolve. this massive, vocal distain American tattooers have for this style is so odd-to me the aging examples you featured look like impressionist painting and have a completely unique way of settling into the skin and aging that is beautiful in its own right plus you cant tell me all the nautical stars, butterflies, Celtic knots etc from the early tattoo boom have aged well.....
