Thing I find annoying about narcs is that they are super sensitive, and need handling very carefully so as not to upset them in any way. You spend all your time and energy being super tuned in to their special needs, I guess like a petulant spoiled child. But when it comes to you, and your owns needs they rampantly trample on your sensibilities and feelings. It's totally one-sided care. Over time that just becomes intolerable. You are not being your authentic self around them because you are dealing with someone so fragile. It's exhausting and it becomes fake. If you have to continually pander to someone's super sensitivity to any hint of criticism you are not helping that person to grow. You are just enabling the behaviour to become more entrenched and unrealistic.
absolutely. It's pretty much like dealing with a toddler. Everything is about them. You're constantly managing them, making sure they're happy, but it's an impossible task anyway because they are never happy, always angry at something no matter how small it is. They are mentally ill. They hurt others so badly because they are also suffering immensely themselves.
The victims of the worst narc abuse also have to live double lives in order to be accepted. Because society is conditioned to go along with the topnarcs lies.
My father most likely has undiagnosed NPD. I like the little shaman YT channel. She makes an analogy between narcs and crocodiles. Crocodiles aren’t evil or cruel. They simply do what they do to survive. Same with narcs. It just so happens that narcs, like crocodiles, can do a lot of damage and cause a lot of pain, and destroy lives yet seem totally unaware of the carnage.
I fell in love with a man that could be described exactly as you've stated in this video. It's only been a couple of months since I left and I miss him, wish with all my being that he had been the healthy, charming person he represented himself to be. He's not evil, but some of his actions and words definitely were. I can understand why some might think people with Narcissistic characteristics are demonic but they are really just extremely mal-adjusted and dysfunctional; hurting deeply on the inside and, as a self-protective measure, extremely lacking in self-awareness. It's heartbreaking and devastating, for them and for the people that try to love them.
They are fully aware of what they do but they do not care. Just as you try and live as a healthy human being they also have the opportunity to do so. Forgive them for they do not know what they do. At the same time educate them for what they do. If they do not listen dust your hands and feet and take care of yourself. Wishing you all the best
@@desouzarm They aren't fully aware, but only somewhat. I think mine was lower on the spectrum of it. He knew and felt a lot of shame at times. He knew the difference between right and wrong, but his impulses compelled him. The lying and cheating are what drove me to end it after 10 years.
@@saintejeannedarc9460If we're honest with ourselves, it's hard to say whether or not they are aware. Because evil and ignorance actually look identical in this context..
It’s so shocking as a wife who after 15 years of crazy behavior starts becoming an enemy. Really its better to get out because they do actually start seeing us as enemies out to destroy them. We feel equally or more so betrayed by the extreme selfishness, entitlement and dark behavior. I’m just scared of him now.
I'm so feeling your comment.. the ongoing trauma for you that led to the current " splitting " is exacerbated beyond tolerance by the inability to reconnect to your loved one by their refusal to acknowledge anything good or lovable in you, and their revision of your shared history leaves you alienated and alone in a relationship that has no purpose and has never been to them worthy of the effort, love and pain you have endured validating it.. another truly " dark night of the soul "
When we demonize others, we are essentially splitting on them like narcissists do. It may seem simpler to view the world in black and white, but the concept of splitting is a defense mechanism typically associated with childhood and is not suitable for mature adulthood. The reality is more complex than a simple dichotomy. While individuals with NPD may be aware that their actions cause harm, they can be so consumed by their own triggers and impulses that they may not fully grasp the origin or appropriateness of their hurtful behaviors, which often stem from deep-rooted issues. In situations where someone is attacked and responds defensively, their actions are often deemed justifiable due to a perceived threat to their safety. Similarly, individuals with NPD may perceive constant "attacks" around them, leading to their defensive and hurtful behaviors. The core issue lies in their genuine belief that their reactions are warranted based on how they believe they have been treated. This dynamic is reminiscent of the tale of Don Quixote, a frail old man who mistook windmills for giants and felt compelled to confront them in battle, despite everyone telling him he was wrong. Like Don Quixote, these individuals grappling with their inner struggles often project their fears and insecurities onto external sources, interpreting everyday challenges as personal affronts or "giants" that require a defensive response. He's saying that while it is totally appropriate to protect yourself from harm, it's not helpful or fair to demonize people with this disorder. See it for what it is. It's a shitty reality for all involved.
@saltycrackerss855 I hear you, but what I have to say to that is that there is a sum to this behavior and feelings people with NPD exhibit. Sure, all those things you have said are true, but the reason people have such visceral responses to reject or demonize people with NPD is the avenues people with NPD chose to exhibit their behavior and inflict misery on those around them, usually the people that love them. No, we shouldn't demonize everyone with the condition, but trust me when I say I would never make friends with someone with NPD. We can chat, we can be social, but friends? Acquaintances? Never. There is too much at stake to see if they can manage themselves only to find out that they can't AND they will act like a feral cat on the tail end? Seeking, vengeance, smear campaings, etc. on you for trying to reclaim your space......nah...0/10 not for me. I have all the grace and empathy I could ever have for someone with NPD. I have enough to leave them alone in their jyre to twist and froth alone. When they get well, then here I am. Otherwise, you're just keeping your heart open for them to chew out of your chest, with their freshly detoothed maw for spite.
@@moosepatil5946 I totally understand where you are coming from. I have a relative with whom I became a business partner. The experience was so unbelievably painful that I think I have some PTSD from the experience. To find peace I decided to give him my part of the business and he still cried victim. Even though I tried being friendly to him and still helped him with business questions and needs for peace sake, he ended up backstabbing me so bad at a family function by attacking my wife verbally and saying shitty things and lies about me while I slept. I was hurt so bad that from then I decided never again to have any dealings with him. As much as I tried to be on good terms with him, he is just too dangerous and unpredictable. Now I just let him do the smear campaigns and do everything to just stay out of his reach. I see him suffer and make stupid business decisions but I cannot afford to risk helping him anymore or having any interactions with him.
I really like your presentation! I spent 8 yrs with a narcissist. He needed love and understanding. It has been a roller coaster. I HAVE a Developmental Psychology Degree. In my life path the education was usefull. I put it down to Misplaced Anger. I would leave ..... go back. Tried to talk to him. I did not realize it was never going to change. This last time I have blocked him. Taking me a long time to put myself back together. It got so bad that no matter What I would comment.....it was taken as an insult. If we were with other people it was OK he was good. I am now healing. Was brutal. Sad because I love him. I identify with your presentation. Thx!
Wow. I actually appreciate this explanation of NPD. I by no means excuse their behavior... however, when you view it in a way that their perception is distorted it helps to understand why they act and do what they do
@@FindYourFreeI've had one guy try and do exactly that to me once and ran. Why do people see it and don't tho? Because when you see it, there is no doubt.
They clearly know how they will be judged for, for instance, raging at their young kids. So they do it behind closed doors. BUT they think that somehow, they are RIGHT to rage at their kids. Since they think they’re the victims. My father used to tell me and my brother that he “was a slave to his father and now a slave to his children. When will it be MY turn?!?” Said this when I was young, maybe 9 or 10 years old.
Narcissistics Personality Disorder is a real mental illness and I ve been observing a couple in this way for a very long time....They get just more and more evil!Their perception is extremely distorted!
Having had to deal with abuse from multiple narcissists over the course of my life, I agree that they suffer from mental illness and are miserable. I wish them well and hope they find peace, an attitude I try to extend to all people, but at this point I'm very intolerant of narcissistic behaviors and want nothing to do with such people.
Someone once told me, never have empathy for a lion that is attacking you, there will come a silence where it stops and you will show empathy knowing that it's not the lions fault for being so aggressive, that it's hard wired like this and it must be your fault for being in the lions presence. You decided not defending yourself anymore and remove the hate, anxiety and fear in your heart and replace it with empathy and understanding. You decide to turn around and walk away, thinking that you just show the lion you are not a threat anymore and it will save your life. So you walk away, or even trying to help the lion. All goes dark, with only a sudden pain and warmth feeling in your neck. You never wake up again. No more dreams, no more any thing.
THANK YOU FOR THIS, was married to a narcissist for 28yrs divorced now his womanising became to much, he now 66 and he still running around looking for supply, it's EXTREMELY SAD and people just laugh him but he still thinks he is the BOMB, such a waste of life, he had a LOVING wife children who loved him, beautiful home etc but NOTHING WAS ENOUGH, he just can't do family and he on continuous seach for love, he has MANY MANY BROKEN RELATIONSHIPS, but blames his exes and issues they have, i gone no contact years and years ago, he doesn't bother with his own children and grandchildren, feel it's taken over his life (NPD) but not my problem anymore.
The lack of self awareness in narcissistic personalities is what I personally find to be the one trait that stands out above all others. They say and do the most outlandish things that most people would not do. They are "over the top". They over compensate. Overcompensation seems to be the cornerstone of this mental illness to me. So I think that if a person lacks self awareness, then naturally they are going to heavily deviate from "social norms" in a way that is so baffling to the rest of us who try so hard to "play nice" and do everything we can to fit into a polite society, where basic rules of common courtesy and good manners are practiced on a regular basis. I know that if I make a rude or critical comment to someone that I love, they will pull away. They will become angered. They will resent me. They are likely to withdraw their love and sever ties with me. Therefore, I make a conscious decision to avoid saying anything that I know will insult someone. Narcissists will not do this. Quite the opposite. They will blurt out that VERY hurtful comment what will injure their loved one and then be shocked when the fallout occurs. This is what stands out the most for me. The lack of empathy for the feelings of others and the lack of self awareness and how others perceive them. This video and the way you have explained everything is so insightful and articulate. Thank you for the valuable information. You are helping so many people to understand this illness that is so devastating not only to those who have NPD but also for the victims of narcissistic abuse who desperately need validation for their feelings in order to mitigate the confusion and despair that follows in the aftermath.
Interesting perspective. However, if narcissists didn’t know what they’re doing, why would they wait until get home to start torturing their victims? Why do they always have this “distorted perception of reality” behind closed doors? Why dont they “simply act” or have these “reflexes” in public? These “skewed perceptions” always happen when they can torture the victim without a single witness and that is precisely the reason why they want to isolate the victim from the rest of the world. Yes, they know! Everything they do is in some level intentional. Whoever’s suffered narcissistic abuse knows this really well.
I’ve replied to this rebuttal a few times elsewhere in the comments. I’ve pasted two of those replies below: @Amber C - This video is not attempting to draw a black and white, all-or-nothing distinction when it comes to self-awareness. I am not making the claim that pwNPD have no idea what they are doing as though they were stumbling around in a dark room. There are many ways that we might talk about awareness of one’s actions. To use a crude analogy: five year-olds know that they are breaking a rule when they grab a cookie from the cookie jar when nobody is looking. But do they really understand why they shouldn’t do that? Is their rule-breaking a studied choice, or a muddled combination of incomplete understanding of rules, low control over their impulses, and age-appropriate short-sightedness? On one level, you could say “they waited until no one was looking, so they know what they are doing.” And, to some extent, you’d be correct. But you’d also be missing important nuance. To bring it back to NPD, most people with this disorder are relatively high functioning members of society. They have mostly mastered simple social behavior like sitting nicely in a fancy restaurant, being deferential to police officers, smiling and being polite to strangers at the store, etc. Just because someone can appropriately code switch in this basic way does NOT mean that they have a high level of insight into their behavior. They may still have distorted perceptions of their important relationships based on projection and other psychological mechanisms. They may have low impulse control - just enough to keep it together when others are around but not enough to cope with their strong feelings effectively. As with many forms of mental illness, the reality is a complicated mish-mash of limited self-awareness, compromised coping, contextual dysfunction, distorted perception, and dysregulated mood and behavior. @col2959 - As I've said elsewhere, the point of this video is not to suggest that narcissists are completely unaware of their own behavior, as though they were stumbling around in a dark room. That would be absurd. The point is to emphasize that pathological narcissism is a mental illness, and mental illnesses impact perception. Perception influences behavior. Basically, people with pathological narcissism and NPD often rely on a defense called splitting. Splitting creates separate silos or islands of perception. When in one self-state, the person may view themselves, others, circumstances, and relationships one way. When in a different self-state, they may have vastly different perceptions. Perception influences behavior. The self that relates to family members may be vastly different than the self that relates to a boss. Just because someone can code switch and behave professionally toward a boss, or sit nicely at a fancy restaurant, doesn't exclude the possibility that they are mentally ill. Narcissists often project their unwanted qualities onto those around them. This is caused by underlying confusion in the personality between self and others. They are more likely to have this confusion when it comes to people with whom they are very close and comfortable. They are far less likely to have this confusion with a boss or stranger they are first meeting. They are likely to default to "professional" or "polite" communication with such a figure, even if they were moments ago in the throes of an angry tirade toward a family member. Additionally, narcissists have impaired self-esteem. They rely on those around them to 'puff up' or improve their self-image. They accomplish this by ingratiating themselves toward those who have status or people that they admire. This often translates to flattering behavior toward a boss or someone with high status, while they may be dismissive or devaluing toward those who are close to them.
Thank you for taking the time to reply. I really appreciate that. I am new to your channel and don’t yet fully understand your views on this subject, but will definitely reflect on them. It’s always nice to see things through a different perspective.
The example with the child taking a forbiden cookie... 🍪 NPD is not 'taking the cookie'. He is throwing the cookie into your face, when no one is looking. 😂
Calculating is spot on. Narcissists know just when to say the most concerning and thoughtful phrases in front of others to look like the good guy, while they've already told you the opposite and have you riled up. Then the eyes focus on you as the one with the issue. Calculating and manipulation are a narcissists forte.
Having had a parent, a spouse, and yet another almost spouse with this 'illness' my opinion is that it doesn't matter if they know what they are doing or not, the damage done is the same. They all 3 still make excuses for their tormenting behaviors to this day and it is too exhausting for any person to spend time on. Let the professionals do that.
I am bipolar 1. I have been in treatment for decades and I understand mental illnesses. I always gave my narcissistic bf a pass thinking he didn’t really realize how what he was doing affected me. Then I watched him in an argument with another man. He was horrible to him. Not unusual, but then got calm and cold and told the man every physical symptom and mental thought process the man was going through from his abuse. Then he smiled and laughed at him. And he came back and was so happy. That is when I realized he knew exactly how what he did to me made me feel. And I told him that I figured that out from the argument. And he spent the next two days pretending I was talking about everything else. Like I was upset he argued with the guy and others. But refused to acknowledge or accept my observation that he knows exactly what he’s doing. It was crazy. I have since left him and now healing.
I can completely relate to what your saying. I experienced the same thing with my ex gf. She went full on rage towards me, I moved out the flat for safety reasons. The next time I went to fetch my staff. She acted like nothing happened. She was all dressed up , make up and everything...I jus ignored her. Which made her even more angry. 😅
😂which is another thing they do.My ex would invite his almost ex gf .and let her hit on him in front of me, but mainly behind my back ..Everytime including the time I told him i m leaving+ its over, would insist I m angry at her I told him 😮 I m not at all angry at her bcoz it's your responsibility to not allow it .. + you keep inviting her ,and dont even admit it happenns. . He d repeat , 🤨you are angry at her,why don't you go argue with her. [ ....Thats your house .you should show her. (lol 😂😂the audacity)] 😶I ve got nothing against her, i m angry at you 🤨No,you are angry at her i get it
Very few people with NPD even have a diagnosis. I wonder when people claim "my ex with NPD did this" what diagnosis they actually qualify for & is that the ONLY diagnosis they qualify for. I suspect, dispite what people claim, that the partner is the one labeling them with NPD. Beyond that, it's always sad to see someone with any mental health issue, particularly something like Bipolar paint other SMI with a broad brush. I can't even count the times I've read posts with sentiments akin to: "My ex with Bipolar did xyz... RUN".
All of your videos help me tremendously in understanding the mental illness that is NPD, in myself and in others. The epiphanies just keep coming. But this video in particular was such a gift. Being able to view my ex with distanced compassion, instead of mountainous resentment and hate, is a gamechanger for me. THANK YOU -- what a service you are providing!
When I was preteen I would lie in bed with insomnia and 'pray' to the universe that my eldest brother would become 'normal' for our peace (he never did; now deceased at 58 y/o). He tormented me in every way and caused never ending chaos and violence in the home, which was enabled by mom while dad was unaware of certain events (due to mom's coverups). I recall my observation to another sibling how mom (covert) must really hate herself to behave the way she does and tolerate her childrens' abuse of her and others. I have another brother that I suspect has malignant NPD/APD. I've discussed with a fellow family member 'truth teller' scapegoat (who has also detached from family for peace and mental health), how sad that he must be so miserably unhappy. It's difficult to understand the complete lack of self awareness and accountability for the problems in their lives. The consequences of their actions and behaviour is ALWAYS the fault of others.
I have been searching for two years + for content like yours, and I am truly grateful for the time you take to make these videos and the knowledge you have. All the sensational videos on RU-vid destroyed my own mental health and probably made my own situation an awful lot worse as a result. Now I can step back and look with humanity and humility, and make better decisions for the future. X
I agree that all the adverse youtube videos may colour your view too much but the message still is to avoid this person for your own good, sadly. In the end whether they are aware or not they will harm you, possibly very badly. That is the crux of the matter. I adored my narc but came to understand why she made me feel so bad. I thought I would become physically ill too. Lucky for me her view of me started out as “All good” but changed to “All bad” and she then moved on. She actually said she was a high level narcissist and seemed proud of it. I was 70, she was 60 with a string of failed relationships….she said they mostly just petered out.
When someone is cheating on their partner, they know very well what they are doing. They just don't care. They care however about whether they are found out, and whether they lose the image that they present in the public. Again, there is a distinction between cognitive empathy and emotional empathy. It's not that they operate exclusively under the influence of forces that are outside of their awareness. Presenting the NPD's as completely oblivious and anaware is not an accurate depiction. Splitting half of their experience, is not a wholesome depiction.
@athinav.5995 - As has been clarified multiple times in these comments, no one is presenting pwNPD as “completely oblivious.” The video title places quotes around “know what they’re doing” for a reason. It is a response to the argument that pwNPD *always* know the harm caused by their actions - that they can see it just as clearly as you and that they do it *intentionally* to cause harm because they are sadistic. This video makes the uncontroversial argument that people with mental illnesses are mentally ill. Mental illness causes distortions in perceptions, thoughts, and images of the self and other people. It causes changes in behavior that are disruptive to the person and those around them. That’s what mental illness means. You can’t have mental illness without accompanying mental changes and distortions. It’s why NPD is a mental illness and not just a collection of unlikable or aggressive traits as many here seem to believe.
@@healnpd The NPDs might be/are mentally ill. However some of them (covert ones?) can be behind the closed doors malignant, hurtfull, almost evil, by doing planned and deliberate harm by let say omision, passive agressive deeds, manipulations, witholding information, deliberately creating chaos and confusion, destroying other person's items 'by mistake', devaluation, witholding care, help and compassion when the other person is ill, smear campaigns, lying, ... It’s an unhuman mess to live with such NPD person, who is regarded as 'nice' by the outside world. Not all NPD's are 'evil'. Some however are deliberatelyvery very harmful to the 'loved ones'. My experience was that the grandiose one did a loooot of harm to his family, couse he could not help himself... but the covert one was (covertly) deliberately hurtfull, passive agressive and mean. You can not 'forgive' the deliberate malevolence...
Your video on malignant narcissists is spot on with my experiences and with what my narc friend has been through as a child. I do have compassion and really enjoy your more positive compassionate views that align with mine. I also appreciate the other less responsible(?) demonising channels that empower the victims of narcissusts to take back their power and control of life. As you have here. I have come to the point of giving up that I can help, life doesn't work in that relationship and am going my own way now. Thank you for your videos. I only discovered your channel yesterday 🙂
this is great clarification I learned as a child that i was suppose to "understand " my fathers behavior because of his abusive parents. This was my mothers way of justifying his abuse of us all. This taught me as an adult to "understand" my partners abuse of me and excuse it to "forgive" which turned into tolerating mistreatment.I think holding on to anger feels like a way of self protection, it's almost scary to let it go.
You are justified to be angry and it's part of the 5 stages of grief. It's healthier for you to get through those stages to acceptance and then forgiveness. This will bring you peace. If you get peaceful and healthy, that's the freedom to treat yourself better and not fall back into an abusive caretaker relationship again.
I love that Dr Ramani recognises that histrionic personality disorder is pretty much narcissism light, but it astounds me a bit that she wants NPD to be gotten rid of entirely and that it is an egosyntonic disorder whereby the sufferer is basically psychotic and unaware of what they're doing because of this. They're practically like schizophrenics, if you've ever dealt with one.
I tried being compassionate to the narcissist before and it almost killed me. Compassion is dangerous for victims. I stayed with a narcissist for 10 years because I thought he was just mentally ill and needed my love and understanding. In the process, I nearly destroyed myself. In another run-in with a narcissist, I tried to have an honest conversation with her about how her treatment (inviting other friends out while excluding me continually) was making me feel. She looked me in the eyes and her eyes and voice totally changed. She said, “I’m a woman. I know EXACTLY how it feels.” I got chills. Yes, I believe they KNOW what they’re doing. I also believe they feel justified doing it because they had it done to them once. Flipping the script now puts them in a position of power where they felt powerless before. Their attachment to their own ego leads them to NEED this retribution when they can’t go back and receive vengeance for the past. Of course, they are victims. Yes, they took the wrong path. I do believe their victims are also justified looking at them as demons or ranting about narcissism if it helps them to heal and not perpetuate the cycle of abuse. It’s leaving the blame where it lies and not transferring it to some other individual in the future.
This explanation is 100% on the mark with regards to dealing with BPD & NPD as an illness and not something that is being done on purpose. Once you come to this realization it is much easier to empathize and stop taking their behavior so personally. It doesn't change the feelings of loss or the damage done but it certainly helps once you understand what this man is explaining to you. I keep waiting for this person to get well but they never do and it's been 13 years. I attempted to help this person for 30 years and at times I was able to but they always reverted back to suffering from the illness, even to the point of having to be hospitalized only to come out of the hospital in the very same state except now they were fully medicated. After all this time this splitting he speaks of is fully on display & I am not alone in seeing it. No Contact was ultimately the best route to go for my own protection. I still miss the person I thought I married so long ago but she ceases to exist as she once was. I truly sympathize with anyone that suffers from these conditions as well as those who have been negatively affected by their behaviors & association with them. It's no one's fault, it's an illness.🐻🐻
Is it okay to say here that I saw how the relevant person in my life would at times ceaselessly and intensely provoke me as long as I remained calm, and when I would finally display great upset, I could see him instantly relax, like he had successfully completed a hard and important project. What you seem to be saying here is that, unlike "normal" people who are capable of malicious actions, narcissists are not capable of engaging in intentionally malicious behavior. I understand your desire to de-demonize these people, but I can assure you that in my case, the person of whom I speak behaved in a very calculated, cruel way over several years. Hence, he knew WHAT he was doing, if not exactly WHY.
Sure, if that’s your experience. PwNPD can be very interpersonally provocative. They can also be emotionally coercive. There is a phenomenon called projective identification that involves projecting a feeling onto someone and treating them in such a way that it provokes an identification with the projected feeling in the person. For example, someone might project their own angry feelings onto you and then treat you like you are angry with them until you actually become angry. Some version of this occurs in many personality disorders.
@@healnpd believe me, I want to believe the best about him even to this day, seven years after the end. I believe he was wounded as a child. I was also seriously wounded as a child by several people with narcissistic traits, but I would never be capable of doing such harm to another person as he did to me. I think that is why I was so confused in the relationship for so long. Thanks for your videos, and thanks for your reply. There are so many broken people, including myself. It is very sad and discouraging.
I didn’t see your whole first comment, just the first paragraph. To respond to the rest of your comment, I do not mean to imply that pwNPD are not capable of malicious behavior, merely that perception of the circumstances is often distorted such that they incorrectly believe aggressive or devaluing behavior is warranted. They may also misperceive their own intentions or the consequences of their behaviors in such a way that the actual effects are minimized or denied.
@@healnpd after I left, the ensuing years gave me time to remember and reflect and process. I do think he believed his cruelty was warranted. But I must ask...what kind of person can think that persistent, long-term cruelty toward another human being is "warranted?" The kind of person that doesn't want to be the one who leaves, but wants to be left, perhaps? There could have been a few different motives regarding that particular. As far as misperceiving his own intentions or the consequences, I feel sure that his intentions were clear to himself. I think he knew he was working to discard me. Some of the final consequences were not, however, what he had aimed for, I think. He did not escape unscathed.
A.Nightingale, I read your comment three times. That guy was simply bullying you. So picture two siblings. The bully is finished with his homework, the brother is not. They’re both sitting at the table. The bully sees you quietly working at your homework. He’s bored. He’s also accustomed to beating you physically five times a day because it gives him sadistic pleasure. It makes him feel bigger inside and gives him a dopamine hit. So he’s bored and begins to jolt the table to distract your concentration. You say, stop it, knock it off! He laughs and keeps doing it. It turns into a physical fight, on the floor. Now, this is what these sadists would really love to do. These types I call narcissist/psychopaths. They have a sadistic bent to them. So what happens to them is that they grow up and learn that that’s assault and they can go to jail. So they don’t beat you physically no more, they do it mentally. So your boyfriend was trying to get a rise out of you. They also, often times need to, “ win “ or gain control to get their way and will deliberately use tactics to those ends. Sometimes they will want to punish you for not doing what they want. So they can be deliberate. Dr. Ettensohn wrote you a comment. I don’t understand what he is talking about but I know that he’s got a video on it. I only know this small amount about projection. I can use my sister as an example. She always freaked out on, time. She had the need to hurry up and do what you need to do in life to become successful like college, like buy a house by the age of thirty and not to waste time but diligently work to gain those goals. Well she was feeling like a looser inside. She was feeling stressed out that time was passing her by and she wasn’t meeting these goals. So this is how she projected onto me. She would berate me saying, don’t you want to go to college? Don’t you want to make something of yourself? You’re just a looser, don’t you want to stop being a looser? She kept saying, look at the time, look at the time! Getting me all anxious. After about three experiences of this, I finally said, those aren’t my goals. That’s not my concern. Quit making me stress over the clock ticking. So she stopped projecting ( this isn’t even severe projection. It might not even count as projection so I’m going to have to give another example ) that onto me but would often just outwardly vocalize her worry about time passing by and it would stress me out. So here’s a better example of projection. I had a male acquaintance friend who thought he was ugly. I did not know him that well so I stayed silent. My point is he was getting sulky. So then he says something to me that sounds like something his mother would say to him. So I’ll just say, she kept telling him, you’re no good, but that’s not what he said, I can’t remember what he said. It was something that was not true to me. Ok how about a thief. That’s not true to me. It was like he was repeating what his mother said to him but accusing me of it. That’s your classic projection. Usually you get accused of something that’s not you, it’s not your character and now you have to defend yourself. So typically when they’re projecting, they’re getting something off of their chest and putting it onto you. Then they get a release from it. They feel better. But just for that moment, it doesn’t last. It’s a maladaptive way to deal with inner emotions that they can’t get rid of so they accuse you of it, watch your reaction of defense and pain and your pain makes them feel better. That’s a type of sadism. So, my sister hardly ever did it until I found out what narcissism was and started to challenge her. She used her own maladaptive, “ play book” ways as a tool to hurt me. I read up on projection once. Everybody does it. So say you’re a good person and you believe in good and expect the world to be good so when you go out on a walk and you say hello to a passer-by you are comfortable in your environment. You expect the other person to be good and so project goodness out of you and onto him. If you were paranoid you might show paranoid behavior which may project onto the stranger and the stranger may decide... nope that’s not working it’s gotta be more. You gotta do something to make that person feel paranoid. Do you see how hard it is for a normal person to do something like this? I can’t even hardly come up with an example. So you don’t even have to feel exactly what they feel, you just have to feel disturbed. ( actually rereading this I can come up with how it works. I feel good. I give a nice smile and hello to the passer-by, they may absorb that good cheer and feel it and happily give it back. I have this feeling that I still don’t get to ) Well there’s another aspect to it, lol. Apparently the things that they accuse you of, is the things they are inside. That just blows my mind because my sister recently did this and I wouldn’t think that she was those things. She puts on a mask of sanity. But, one time, at age 48 she told me that she had an epiphany. That she was evil inside. I laughed. I thought she was joking. She talked about it some more and I just laughed. She said, no, seriously. So I begged her not to be evil. There was more to the conversation but basically she felt that she should live up to her true nature. So god only knows what that means, lol. I know she’s sadistic. I know that’s in her nature. But she seems normal though too. So Dr. Ettensohn said that your boyfriend was projecting onto you. But in a way that I don’t know about. It seemed like Dr. Ettensohn was saying that it was a way for your boyfriend to have a personality exchange with you. That’s too deep for my understanding. Sometimes they don’t like your calmness. They don’t like it that you’re in peace. I’ve also heard that they like chaos. And so will deliberately cause chaos. Sorry I wrote so much. I guess I’m in the mood. Maybe you can look back at that memory and think if something else was going on like maybe a fight from the night before or you made him mad the day before and he’s still agitated over it and messing with you.
Thank you. This is a breath of fresh air. Much needed. Every person with NPD is not the same, every person with NPD is not inherently dangerous. Every person who treats others without empathy does not have NPD. Every behavior of a person with NPD is not willfully done to harm others.
I really appreciate your approach. I too have had issues with Dr Ramani’s stance often. It seems to have a biting, biased, bitter edge. I can understand where that might come from, as I’ve had many who had narcissistic traits, or full blown variations of NPD (and other cluster B) in my path…but it seems that she herself falls into a trap of some cognitive distortions and failing to fully appreciate the deep neuroscience, blind spots, that are intrinsic with the disorder. Many people have ignorance to their own ignorance…however I’d say in mental illness it’s magnified. Your approach is so aware, connecting the dots that most people fail to. You put succinctly many things that have come up in my mind, and added some too! Thank you for a balanced, compassionate, empathetic, presentation 😊
I'm so relieved to have found your channel. I strongly suspect that a sibling of mine has NPD. When her abusive accusations became bizarre and obviously delusional, I realized something was very wrong. I researched narcissism on RU-vid but their aggressive approach was ubiquitous. I've always suspected that unhappiness is behind misbehaviour. It was by coming to this understanding, after decoupling from taking the attacks personally, that I was able to recover greater acceptance of myself and take back power in my own personality. This made it easy to put boundaries in place and protect myself from further attacks through a conscious politeness, deflection and distraction. Our gurus come in many shapes and forms. Thank you for your authenticity and compassion.
While you perfectly described my father, my mother is some different sort; always composed, calculated, manipulative. Rationale - I was born 5 months after wedding and brought her shame, her son, born after me, prestige, (as sons do), so she treated me accordingly. She knew very well what she was doing, and she didn't loose a minute of sleep because of it. Anyway, excellent videos. I hope your channel will grow as it should.
NPD, as I know it, is a combination of cognitive distortions and behavioral dysregulation (where I think of some thought patterns & attitudes as "behavior'). From what I can tell, the dysregulation is pretty much correlated with the cognitive distortion. WIth some pause and effort, the distortion can be lessened, but in the pace of real life, we don't always have time to slow down, and sometimes there are spikes of crisis or conflict (normal in family, friend-groups & professional scenarios) where even normal people can have a narrowing of cognitive wherewithal - and where people with NPD are prone to notable moments of misunderstanding (mis-assessment / mis-calibration) that can result in real breakdowns. So, even with therapy and awareness, I think people with NPD have to be careful to avoid environments that are too pressured or stressful, and to be realistic about job / career choices... and maybe also to avoid social situations that could present too much pressure or drama.
I've been living this proposed advice for the past five years. Drama is at a minimum, and I have trained myself to think before I act every time. I've noticed that people REALLY respect someone who thinks before they speak!
@@attractarattigan3574 -- Yes, that's a major roadblock, for sure. Although, it's like any addiction... At the bottom it's more about the adrenaline & the feeling of it. Obviously, to get better, even before going to therapy, there has to be a glimmer of insight in the NPD person... that something's not right with me, and that I need to reassess my life. Even if it's just a tiny glimmer of insight. The same is true w addictions... some people do get better, but a glimmer of insight has to appear before the process can get started, sadly. Even more sadly, many people who start the path of insight often end up relapsing. So, for sure, it's a serious issue (that NPD people are sort of adapted & habituated to the turmoil of toxicity). Sucks... but all we can do is try to spread awareness where we can, and to improve the general understanding that exists in society in general.
One of the most confusing and painful parts of dealing with a person with NPD, especially the covert type, is that you can find no logical explanation for why they go from loving to hostile and disdainful of your very being. They also can convince themselves and others that they are wonderful, generous, caring people while turning on the fire hose of inexplicable hatred towards their favorite scapegoat for their unhappiness. When that is YOU, you are in for a world of pain that seems never ending. They seem to keep a running list of all the things they convince themselves you have done to wrong them, and they feed their own grudges in order to explain their "feelings", which, to them, justify the way they behave. They are, in short "self-reinforcing" and confuse feelings with reality. To save your own sanity, you have to get away from a person who is as emotionally dysregulated and unpredictably explosive or sulky as they are.......please talk about how these people can fool some therapists into believing that the way they present themselves as victims of their scapegoat is real.
My mom concern trolled me once. She called me with an audience on her end and put on her best voice tremble. I didn’t buy it and asked her who she was performing for. Instantly, her audience wanted to comfort her because of her compassion less child. She is a child counselor that should never have been allowed contact with children. Foster kids would report sexual abuse to her and she refused to report it. When confronted, she was the victim. I don’t expect therapists to admit they’ve been duped by those with NPD. Unfortunately, I know far too many that should be diagnosed themselves.
Very well said and on point to the tee, they all act the same, I think there’s more to it then simply mental health issues, Dominic seems to fit, all from one person the devil horns not included
I appreciate your approach! What I find challenging is, to deal with a person with narcissistic traits based on fair understanding while at the same time setting healthy boundaries.
@@thrivingnow7395 This is true. What Ben at Raw Motivations says about boundaries is so key. Boundaries are for you. They are your own internal marker that you set for yourself. To impose and tell them to others is more setting rules and regulations. That really helped.
Dr Ettensohn, I would like to thank you for making the topic crystal clear. Everyone in my family was a narcissist. Your compassion also makes the information easy to deal with.
I agree with some of this, maybe those that are low on the spectrum but my parents were high on the spectrum, very violent and cruel. I was no threat to them at all at age 5, so then why did they whip and beat me daily? I saw intense rage but only when no one else was looking. They could control it. They unleashed when they knew they would get away with it. The abuse came with no reason and it was daily. I have thought all my life they were demons so it's not surprising to hear others think the same. I was a such a good little girl and never deserved that kind of treatment. I can handle this personality type as an adult but as a little girl dealing with such evil, my perspective is very different from those that had loving parents.
1) most narcissists aren't abusive; 2) are you sure your parents were narcissists, and not just abusers? (perhaps sadistic or psychopaths?) 3) the video didn't say that you should've tolerated any abuse. It quite explicitly said that abuse should be not tolerated, by anyone and from anyone.
When does it stop being narcissism and start being psycopathy or sadism? I think this is the problem with the term 'narcissist' - it's being used to describe any appalling behaviour, when in fact it is a term used to describe a much narrower set of behaviours.
Susan, This is how I handle it. I call the sadistic ones narcissist/psychopaths. Here on RU-vid the psychologists simply term the cruel ones narcissists. It’s like they’re using the term narcissist as an umbrella term. But they are talking about the cruel sadistic ones. These are the ones that we are complaining about. We’re not complaining about the mild ones.
Rv706, Yes, you should get away from a narcissist/psychopath but she was five years old. Here’s another problem people raised in this environment are trained to take this bizarre behavior as normal then when they become adults, they usually marry someone with these traits. So, the suggestion is to leave but here’s the problem: A person is slowly acclimated to the abuse. Once they realize, hey this isn’t right, they try to rationalize with the abuser to solve problems only that won’t work like it would between two neurotipicals. Instead, the narcissist/psychopath will behave for a while. Then what happens is cycles happens; cognitive dissonance happens, being in a fog, low self esteem, low self worth, possibly suicidal. Eventually a person will find out what went on and do further research into understanding what had happened to them and they will be angry about it. They will remember when the Narcissist/psychopath was deliberate and they will be further angered about that, bad mouth them and all of those types and want to warn the world so as not to have to go through the same experience.
In general, I agree with your perspective that people high in narcissistic traits, or have full NPD, are simply ill. I also agree that focusing on blame is not helpful in the end. However, there is a complication here around awareness and accountability that seems to fuel these polar views. My default position was that their illness prevents awareness, so their can not be any blame attached to them so they are not accountable. However, My ex girlfriend told me specifically the following: "I knew deep down what I was doing was wrong", "I'm doing it to be spiteful to you" (it being saying very hurtful things) and "If people knew what I was really thinking, they would lock me up and pump me full of drugs". She also said that she was justified and entitled to her bad behaviour because she had been abused as a child. Also, when I asked her why she was 'teasing,' me in a derogatory/offensive way. She told me it was good fun for her. She also seemed to genuinely enjoy hurting me and gaining power over me when I was at some of my most vulnerable times. These statements show a high degree of awareness that what she was doing was wrong. But I agree that this still does not imply any awareness of the damage her behaviour caused. It could be more that the sense/shame of right and wrong was externalised, rather than being driven by her own values and feelings?
It seems you can find self reporting narcissists that will say the same - and people are all so different, and their trauma's are different. A lot of other specialists in this area also talk about the motivations and that they do intend to hurt you - in the way a toddler intends to hurt you, guilt you, be the victim. There is a component of delusion as well. in the things they think people are doing to them. In a lot of ways it feels like there is agreement here. I have seen Dr Ramani talk and she is careful about discussing which forms of narcissism she is talking about and the her perspective is based on the people she has worked with.
Yep. The closest my mom ever got to admitting was “I do things that I just can’t remember” and yet she can be adamant she never did it when called out. 🤷♀️
My ex told me, she knew that she was mean to me. But she didn't know why. At least she knew her behaviour and that it was unacceptable. And I guess she did not even care for the "why" because of her entitlement. "When I'm doing it it must be justified". And if that would be enough to be incapable of guilt...
Women, in general, are far more conscious of what they do and why they do it than men are. Consider this, though: a woman who is says mean things to her husband because she wants to make him feel bad, and knows full well that this what’s happening, vs a man who spends all day playing video games, watching people have sex on his phone, and otherwise ignoring her, but has no idea that he’s doing anything wrong. Say they’re a couple. Who is the bigger victim?
I was raised by a single mother with BPD and have dealt with narcissistic siblings and coworkers. I myself have been diagnosed with CPTSD (from childhood trauma), Major Depressive Disorder and Anxiety. I’m spending a small fortune on medication to keep myself functioning without breaking down. I’d like to offer a counter-thought to the information expressed in this video. The idea that narcissists have no control over their impulses seems to contradict my personal experience that outside in public or in front of upper management, these individuals somehow - amazingly - gain the ability to control themselves. But once the door was closed, I as a small child was subjected to horrific abuse. Do you understand what I’m saying? The people that you dismissively but amicably refer to as “lay-persons”, many like me are REAL victims from abuse that have to now deal with lifelong consequences. Think about if a person rapes or kills someone you love, and a pedantic, gentle-voiced “expert” appears and talks more about how the perpetrators are just mentally ill and can’t help themselves. Then ask yourself how you’d feel listening to him after suffering the results of their actions. But aren’t rapists and killers and molesters just suffering from some mental disorder? Should we thereby dismiss their actions because “they just can’t control themselves” and tell the victims to get therapy, learn to set boundaries and stop persecuting their abusers? Is that what you’re arguing? At what point does a grown adult not have to take responsibility/accountability for damage they do? And when is it inappropriate to tell victims that their abusers just can’t help themselves? Frankly, I think you should change your approach. I appreciate that you’re a studied doctor and trying to help, but you’re doing a lot of harm. You’re not adequately addressing the potentially lifelong damage narcissists can cause innocent victims of their violence. It’s as if you’re excusing their actions, even if this might not be your intention. And for us victims, you’re being painfully triggering. 😑
I personally am not harmed by this expert. I like to look at all sides as, I assume, everyone else here does or they wouldn’t be here. But I concur wholeheartedly with disagreeing that “they don’t know or can’t control what they are doing.” Not only do they control it so well not to do it in front of authority figures, or in a social setting, or with someone they are trying to win over; but they also are able to flip the scenario and say that you actually did or said that very thing to them! I used to live in the mentality “she can’t help it.” Then I realized, they not only CAN help it, but they also INTENTIONALLY use it to control and manipulate those others who are around. Quite honestly, it’s nothing short of evil. If I had come to my senses before now, one I dealt with for 54 years would be in jail because some of what was done was criminal. Wow! Just typing this response has fired me up. They know precisely what they are doing is evil. They choose who and when to unleash it on so they will not be held accountable by the law, society, family members or authority figures. Evil. Perhaps this expert has never seen a good one and the ones he’s treated has truly been mental cases who acted out in front of everyone.
@@nowyouknowrealestate5703 Right, the one’s I’ve come across are super in control of just how they abuse select people behind the scenes and more select people all the time as well over and over and over, they know they can likely get away with mentally etc abusing😹🔮🕵🏻♀️Might even take an extremely great psychic to entirely unmask them and their shit🤣🤷♀️✅🥳
It takes being a long term victim of somebody with NPD, then learning about NPD for the first time, your own personal co-dependency’s, the horrors of financial damage they cause, years of family law court battles, and the love heartbreak, to truly understand these monsters. It may be a mental disorder, but it’s not enough of an excuse. They know exactly the wicked, devilish things that they do. The average therapist or mental health expert is no match.
As a person with NPD disorder I must ask why you attribute all your childhood injury to NPD, when you said that your mom had BPD? They're two separate diagnosis. Also, your siblings have been officially diagnosed by a therapist as to having NPD? Or you guess that's their disorder? I ask this because many people attribute NPD to anybody with mental health issues, who registers high on narcissistic tenancies or anyone with malignant behaviour. What's incredibly triggering for sufferers of NPD is the vast swathe of pop culture, social media 'gurus' who make big coin off people who've been victimised by mentally ill people and who blanket label them all as NPD sufferers. This whole area needs strict regulating. This channel actually speaks facts and is so helpful for us NPD sufferers, we can learn, manage and heal in a space where nobody is gaslighting us by telling us that we're responsible for all the evils of the world. I hope you find healing and peace and I also hope you learn here how this disorder is also an early infancy trauma response with many sufferers who don't leave trails of destruction within society.
@tommywhite4553 Maybe you’d be doing better in your life is you weren’t wallowing in your own victimhood, watching RU-vid videos about NPD and writing paragraphs on why someone who’s considered an expert is wrong and you - a guy who grew up with UNDIAGNOSED narcissistic family members. My mum was also diagnosed with BPD and she a lovely albeit unstable care giver.
Because mental illness "seems abstract" and can't be seen people feel more entitled to attack those who are affected by it. Also having NPD is a frightening thing to have that can lead to a cycle of repeated self destruction that makes them never able to relax. TLDR: They aren't having fun.
My dad is probably a narcissist I’m fairly certain, and my boyfriend (who is very similar in personality) was diagnosed with ASPD/NPD/BPD by the prison psychiatrist. I appreciate this channel because it’s really hard to come to terms with, or even make sense of the hurtful behaviors and actions of the very people you have so much love in your heart for. I appreciate you calling out the unhelpful online exhochambers that depict narcissists as demonic entities or evil character disordered individuals who intentionally cause harm. When you compare them with a person who is drowning or dying of thirst, I think that’s true. They are so hurting, hollow and desperate :( thank you for setting me straight because I was getting caught up in the false depiction too.
You need to break up with that guy. You're just replacing one abuser (father) with another abuser (criminal boyfriend). That's a dangerous game you're playing.
It certainly feels like they know, but in the event that they don't, it's up to them to do something about it. As long as people validate them or enable them by sticking around giving them their friendship, they will never evolve. They won't have to. I think they're indulged, spoilt and imo, they should be left to collapse.
This video has much to recommend it; however it seems to be based on the premise that distorted perception and consciously immoral choices cannot coexist in the same person, or that there is no difference between a person who does not know what they are doing and a person who does know but simply can't alter their behavior. The positive side of this particular psychological approach is that it gives us insight into the true motivations of the narcissist, and shows us how they are suffering, trying their best to cope based on faulty perceptions and strategies, etc. But the dark side of it is that it dehumanizes the narcissist by virtually denying them the ability to assume moral responsibility, treating them as if they were totally devoid of free will. In other words, the day may (or may not) come when the narcissist, after gaining sufficient insight into his or her real motives, consciously chooses to continue their destructive behavior, knowing that it hurts others, simply because they can't face the pain that altering that behavior for the better would require, or that they fear it would require. We must understand the dilemma of those who consciously choose evil because they feel that choosing good would hurt too much, and not think of them as gratuitously deciding to be cruel simply out of a kind of fiendish delight. Yet we must still hold them accountable for their choices. If we do not do so, we have failed to grant them their full humanity.
I am 50 years old and the golden child of an overt narcissistic mother. I have dedicated the last 25 years of my life to accomplishing two goals: 1) Personal & spiritual growth to become the best person I can be. 2) Eradicating the damage my mother’s gaslighting inflicted on my psyche. Before you form any assumptions, please know I am well-versed on narcissism. In fact, I’ve published a book on the subject. As such, after watching this video, I must ask you if you’re aware that your tone and word choices sound sympathetic towards narcissists and contentious toward the abuse survivors. I agree that narcissism is a mental illness and that the result of their actions constitutes abuse. I also agree that narcissists may not be consciously “aware” of the harm they’re causing. However, they are definitely aware of their actions/behavior. Every action is hard-wired toward self-preservation and self-gratification. The soft language you use such as “skewed perception of circumstances”, “no ability to understand their behavior” and “difficulty drawing reasonable conclusions” paint them as sufferers or victims. In reality, the verbiage should be “apathetic and self-serving perception of circumstances”, “refusal to understand their behavior” and “incapable of drawing reasonable conclusions.” When you said, “narcissists are not happy. They’re empty inside”, the rest of the sentence SHOULD read, “and it’s everyone else’s fault.” That’s when I knew I had to write this comment. I’m glad you mentioned that it’s ok to leave a narcissistic abusive relationship, but what about the children who can’t leave a narcissistic parent? That parent has an 18 year blank canvas to destroy. We shouldn’t sympathize with the parents, we should rescue those kids! I’ve watched western society slowly wisen up to the truth of narcissism in the last few decades. With your profession and expertise, you have a priceless opportunity to use this platform to expand society’s knowledge and go to THE SOURCE of the issue instead of concentrating on mopping up the mental and emotional quagmire narcissism leaves in its wake. Although I admittedly have not watched any of your other videos, the borderline-gaslighting content of this one single video has the capacity to send our progress tumbling back 20 years or more. I urge you to use your outreach on this platform wisely. Unless of course your perceived sympathy stems from your own personal narcissism, in which case, I’m talking to a brick wall and this comment will be deemed as an “attack” and promptly removed. I truly hope you recognize the difference between an attack and an opinion that varies from your own. You can prove your recognition by leaving this comment up. Society will continue to progress in their understanding, but until the day that narcissism can be identified and treated like any other “mental illness” and their resulting abuse criminalized, don’t you dare minimize or shame the so-called “attacks” in the comments no matter how unsophisticated their delivery. These people are angry and deeply scarred. Every ounce of their rage and confusion is justified. Many of THEM are unhappy and empty inside and they will never completely recover. I want them to know that the narci-monster in their life is NOT a victim. You did nothing to earn or deserve such abuse. Do you hear me out there?? There was nothing you could have done to change it or stop it or fix it. YOU were the victim, but you’re not anymore. It’s time to heal. It’s time to live!
Exactly. Understanding the origins and analyzing every interaction won’t fix an abusive relationship. They do know because they act different around peripheral people. My mother I later found out made up all kinds of stories about me so that others wouldn’t believe me when the truth came out about her abuse behind closed doors. That sure sounds knowing and manipulative to me! I think this channel is solely to help narcissists who are capable of self reflecting figure THEMSELVES out, not excuse their behavior. Everyone’s different and the rest of us have to determine what we are willing to allow into our lives as adults.
Thank you so much for leaving this comment. This video really didn't sit right with me and I couldn't fully articulate why, but you laid it all out perfectly.
I appreciate you’re so informed take on the dynamics of narcissism and BPD. I feel for most of us narcissism is a huge mystery and so ignorance breathes attempt us to theorize what’s happening… Often times the series not lining up with reality. Thank you for clarification.
I understand the mental health professional invested in treating narcissism standpoint. And after half a year of therapy, a dozen books read on the subject, support groups sessions, self love exercises, I am at the point where I want and can start looking at it from this perspective. As much as I hate the disorder, I don't hate the people that have it and hurt me. But... there's a reason why the internet is full of narcissistic abuse recovery strategies and not of paranoid abuse recovery strategies (the percentages of npd and paranoid personality disorder are comparable). Npd's problem is the excessive need for being special and feel admired while many of us need to make others feel special and admire them so the match between demand and offer may have something to do with it but surely the fact that NPD are extremely emotionally damaging is the most essential factor. And even the fact that some of us need to make others feel special and admired at our own expense is itself sometimes the result of narcissistic abuse in childhood, as is the lack of healthy anger and disappointment that would make one walk away from the red flags that they encounter in adult romantic relationships. So they do have a very negative impact on a considerable number of people. Yes, "bad" and "evil" may not be philosophically or morally accurate since them finding themselves in the emotional state where they "have" to devalue you takes them by surprise as much as it takes you and the "intention" of "evil" may not exist in a "psychological" sense. But does that help when the way they sooth themselves harm you to the point where is pulls out chunks of your soul? Does it help when you're drowning in the guilt and self blame they put you in before they discarded you and you cry rivers of tears not even understanding what's going on it a therapy office while they seem to be living their best life with their next source of supply which also seems to have been the previous source of supply that they blatantly lied about. That sounds pretty evil to me, with or without awareness. Should we continue to try to develop ways to treat them? Absolutely! Should we try to have compassion even when it cannot be reciprocated? Absolutely! The have had it worse than us, their victims, and maybe still do. But they are a different emotional species, one that hurts. My point is that this video also misses some perspectives. And it's hard not to when you talk about narcissism, because the perspective of the tortured victim cannot be reconciled withe perspective of the abuser, and they are abusers, whether aware of it or not. Sure, if we have the luxury of a very healthy emotional background or if we've invested a lot of effort in understanding the topic and healing from unfortunate encounters we can just walk away from engaging and look back with compassion, but this is not the case for many people.
I have no stakes in this game. No evil ex narc (lol), no family member with NPD (I hope?) but personality psychology is always fascinating. The truth is especially so. I love your channel and your vids, keep it up, doc!
Meeting somebody in therapy is not the same as iiving with them. I know a narcissist who was definitely an intentional bad actor. But she was always delighted when someone bought her poor-me act. She would have loved your channel.
Thank you again for this approach. ❤ This helps me to understand the person in my life of whom i think he is a narcissist, so much better. In this way i can keep seeing him as a human being... Who is suffering aswel, but can not talk about it. Has blind spots... And yes, i still feel love for him, but am at safe emotional distance, finally... Took me years... What other channels do you recommend? And what books? Most channels learn me to hate the narcissist and see them as pure evil.... I don't want that approach anymore. It doesn't help me. Thank you for all the good advice!
The channel BorderlinerNotes is geared towards people with BPD but it also has a few great interviews with other psychologists who treat NPD and see the disorder from an empathetic/compassionate lens. It's the only other resource I found before HealNPD came on the scene.
Well presented view of whats behind the behavior of NPD . As one who has experienced long relationship with it, as well as one who works with many who have, I am happy to find a resource that supports what I came to understand. The NPD individual cannot "see it your way" - and can suddenly have a new view of who you are. They seemingly- cannot help it, because they are blinded when their fragile self is "threatened" Your video on narcissistic rage was particularly good.
Good morning and first I like to say my apologies for not addressing you by your name. I’ve been thinking this all along and I have been watching many videos that seem to be educational but deep down inside the advice given wouldn’t sit well all the time. I’d much rather prefer going down this road anything that could be of forgiving and understanding nature. Thank you for confirming what I have been feeling for so long and for validating that people need empathy and compassion to help this disorder. Thank you
@Heal NPD: I think it's great that you provide reasonable and non radicalized view of narcissism and its pathologies. I'd like to make a desideratum for future videos: would it be possible that you go more in depth about the vulnerable aspects of narcissistic pathology (more, or less, severe)? For example: failure to launch, road blocks, procrastination, avoidance, social phobia, maladaptive daydreaming, Walter Mitty types etc etc. - I'm not saying all these things are necessarily caused by narcissism, but I suspect they are very related to it. Also, these things would go against the stereotype of a narcissist as somebody who hurts other people: I think it's possible for someone to have huge narcissistic conflicts and at the same time to not hurt anybody (but himself/herself). (A related question: how does the psychodynamic perspective view avoidant personality and social phobia/anxiety? Are they considered the same thing as vulnerable narcissism or is there a distinction? *Edit:* I've now seen that there's already a video of yours about social anxiety and npd) Another desideratum: narcissism and the sense of time. There is an article by Otto Kernberg which talks about the perception of time in persons with narcissistic pathology. Thank you again for the interesting information that you provide!
This is one of the most compassionate depictions of narcissism I have ever heard. That being said, I think that the very best thing you can do with regard to a narcissist is to force them to see that they are WRONG. Their reality is wrong, their perceptions are wrong, their behavior is inappropriate. Force them to endure consequences for their actions. Make them experience the shame that they have developed workarounds for. Their wall of protection blinds them from reality and only protects them from feelings that they are supposed to feel.
People with NPD are mentally ill, but they are not insane. These people know what they are doing and they do it, at the expense of others, because it works for them. It's impossible to dispute that as narcissists conscientiously monitor and adjust their behavior, depending on the given situation, and that itself is proof enough that they know right from wrong and therefore can control how they act just like anyone else.
I honestly didn't realise how much I was hurting my ex I knew something was wrong I was trying to figure it out as I knew my moods weren't right I kept thinking am I normal am I too sarcastic I didn't realise until he asked for a break I have hurt everyone I would rather be dead I keep hurting people I don't know why
@@CassandraSchuback-ro9qhI don't think that you have NPD as your actions are not intentionally meant to hurt others in order to glorifying yourself. You may have a mood disorder or BPD. Talk to your general practitioner about a diagnosis and treatment options.
You don’t know what you’re talking about. But that’s okay. I can answer any questions you may have. You think we do…. What…intentionally? I can explain In excruciating details for you from my own experience about how I was not doing it intentionally. It looks like it, that much I can’t deny.
I do think it is important for there to be space made for showing compassion for those with mental illnesses like narcissism. That being said, compassion can endanger people -- if you are healing from an abuser who was a narcissist, its okay to not hold that space for them while you are focusing on yourself and your healing. Narcissists typically target those types of people -- those who are willing to always empathize, despite the pain the other put them through. You can aknowledge the humanity of another person, and acknowledge they are suffering, without prioritizing that over your own safety and recovery.
Thank you for the video. I fully agree that narcissists are not aware of what they are doing and do not see their splitting or skewed view of things. In one sense I think that you could say that narcissists (just like everyone else) see the world through the lens of their childhood where their understanding of the world was formed. They experienced abuse and that they could not trust the most important people in their lives, their parents, and this early experience is imprinted in their body and has become the template from which the are operating interpersonally. Because of this trauma they are hypervigilant and always on the lookout for signs that the abuse and breach of trust could be occurring in the present (and no wonder that they are, this is what they experienced through out their formative years. All human beings (as well as animals) extrapolate from their childhood experiences to their present life; our only means of predicting the future is drawing on past experience). Neutral and benign statements or actions from others that bear just the slightest resemblance in any way to the trauma that happened in their childhood (a look, a furrowed brow, a tone of voice or even the physical appearance of someone or their clothes etc.) trigger the childhood pain and as a result a stress response. And I think that out of the four trauma responses (fight/flight/freeze/fawn) the people who developed narcissism most likely get a sympathetic nervous system activation in response to the perceived danger (the fight response), and stress hormones are pumped out into their bodies. When this happens, the frontal lobes shut down and rational thought, reasoning, decision-making, empathy for others etc. is no longer possible. This is what I would understand as "the drowning" that you described in another video. They simply fight for their lives in order not to be engulfed by the pain, the shame, the terror they experienced in their childhood. And internally the conclusion arises "I knew it, of course I could not trust this person", and they browse though their history with this person and find confirmation that indeed this person is all bad. Then they move on to the next person in the hope that this new person will never trigger those unbearable feelings. But of course this happens again and will continue to happen, until the narcissist finds the help from a therapist to hold space for these unbearable feelings, to feel compassion for their own suffering and to regulate themselves.
I feel terrible I knew I was down and something was wrong realising I abused my ex and then caused a smesr campaign I don't know what happened I just became irrational not thinking of the consequences I feel like being dead cause all I do is hurt others and I feel bad for the hurt I caused but I keep causing the hurt I hate myself
I honestly didn't realise the hurt I was causing him till it was too late I wish I told him how I was feeling and got help earlier I wish he asked me to get help at least told me I was hurting him
Thank you for your clear and objective view on the subject matter. We must not demonize individuals with a personality disorder. We must step back and realize that these individuals have a pathological disorder that has arrested their ability to develop and healthy long lasting relationships. Please do grieve the pain that was caused to you by the narcissist. Absolutely instill boundaries that protect you from any and all individuals who are suffering from a psychological disorder. But also, we must have the ability to step back from our subjective emotional experience and realize that these individuals aren’t skipping into the sunset happily, there deeply troubled and unhappy… give yourself time to grieve, once your emotions subside, you can go back into the relationship and truly see their glaring limitations. It would have played out this way with you if anyone else. They self sabotage… they’re living their lives in a defensive stance, unable to breathe, see, and feel… a life of perpetual dissatisfaction and discontentment… I was in a relationship with a narcissist for 4 1/2 years… And truly the only way I was able to let go as compassion…
As someone who was called a narcissist by my ex who I hurt very much. I felt like I had to and it’s not that I wanted to because I didn’t know how else to end the relationship. I did not enjoy torturing him, nor was I even focused on the hurting him. I felt like I had to hurt him to not hurt him (if that makes sense). I didn’t want him to feel rejected so I made myself someone who he had to reject so he could hate me and not himself. But then again I’m not a diagnosed narc and many therapists have told me that I’m not. But I believe that narcissism is a line that anyone can easily cross. Generally I’m a kind, regulated person, but the legacy I left with this man is a bad one and I will forever be sorry about how I made him feel
The toxic behaviors of someone with NPD are never excusable towards someone else just because their "perceptions" are "scewed" or "distorted." Just like if someone was driving while under the influence of alcohol, they too must be accountable for the consequences of their actions and/or suffer the consequences whether they were/are cognizant of what they are doing...
Explaining something is not excusing it. People do act according to their perceptions. And while there are no excuses, there are also no solution to it except for other people on the receiving hand to have enough awareness and sense of self ( not a distorted idea that they are not worth any better) to distance themselves from anyone they deem abusive.
In this video it is literally stated that you should leave people with distorted views, cut them out of your life and say no. But sure, ignore those parts completely and focus on complaining. Talking about perception, distortion etc. ... 😂 Oh and never forget: humans are cruel, selfish and sadistic WITHOUT being a narcissist. 😌
I have two comments in one. - it was only 27 years after leaving the pwNPD and having a third great awakening where more hidden information, a final motherlode of pain followed by relief, was revealed to me about that marriage that I finally understood it was narcissism. As a victim I found the bulk of other approaches a big help as catalysts and pattern revealers, but see their inherent limitations. You introduce a new different vocabulary with terms like splitting. When my pain subsided and through the multiple betrayals I could see the rough outlines of the disorder and got occasional compassionate humanistic glimpses over the past three decades, of the pwNPD as a victim too. Let’s face it: if a highly educated pwNPD is having 25 different sex partners over eight years of marriage, many risky one-offs with strangers, and builds and maintains a continuous harem of lovers, and is now into their fourth marriage the prior three following the same NPD template, something is seriously wrong. You explain NPD with forensic clarity not demonization. So thank you. - The child to my marriage and their other children are tied to the pwNPD for life, unlike me. I have moved on. They cannot or maybe should not use the other popular resources because of their vilification of the parent wNPD. The now grown children have an ongoing albeit troubled relationship, it is their possession, part of their life. Not mine. Your work provides an avenue for them to understand what the hell is going on, maybe even to help break the cycle of NPD succession (?), but does that without being destructive or disrespectful. In your material, children of pwNPD now have a proper resource for building that understanding without destroying the parent- child relationship.
Yes! Someone who's normal abt npd and doesn't paint us as horrible abusers!! 💖💖💖 I genuinely enjoy having someone who doesn't demonize us, i appreciate ppl like u!
*Sometimes I wonder if the lack of insight/awareness is like a type of anosognosia, like in mania, schizophrenia, dementia and brain injury where it can often be a main symptom inherent to the illness. In a way that's what Doc Ettensohn has said here about narcissism. Though apparently in those other disorders it is likely or even almost certainly created by neurological dysfunction, while in narcissism he describes interactions of psychological pathologies. *I had the thought that inability to empathize in and of itself would result in a lack of insight and not *really* understanding the impacts of behaviors. Same with self centeredness. *Dr. E. has very clearly contrasted "regular" vs. "malignant" narcissism in another video and unequivocally spelled out that these are very different patterns. Malignant is not simply an extreme narcissist, but one who is not able to contain their aggression, and has identified with their own childhood abusers and become like them. ( I know some people like this. The theory is highly plausible in my experience.) And malignancy can emerge episodically *or* be the usual mode. I think a lot of the differences of views and experiences around the awareness question stem from misunderstanding that these are two different disorders. (though is some cases occurring in one person) So people could be comparing apples and oranges. My thinking/experience is that malignant narcissists often *are* aware of what they're doing, and often *do choose* to do it anyway (with pleasure). Regular narcissists aren't, and don't, usually. The difference arises from the high aggression, the ego syntonic sadism, and the psychopathic traits that define the malignant.
I think I’ve been watching the wrong channels as they have portrayed people with mental health disorders as evil. Your RU-vid channel, however, has a sympathetic and realistic understanding of this disorder. I can now see that NPD and the other related disorders are not people being deliberately evil. Thank you for your insight.
@hondaeg3lover - The video is not standing up for anyone who is a narcissist. It is simply challenging a common (and erroneous) assumption about the level of insight and malicious intent commonly found in the disorder.
@@healnpd I believe that people should be allowed to speak the truth. The truth is that these people have a strong sadistic streak, and get supply from the pain they cause. I've seen my narcissist have moments where he demonstrates that he is self aware enough to know that he is behaving in a toxic and abusive way. He hides this abusive side when he is in public, and unleashes it in private. I assumed this is a place for the survivors of narcissistic abuse. It is normal for survivors to have strong feelings, and unkind words about those that abused them, gave them PTSD, assaulted them, degraded them, etc. Again, I assumed this was a place for survivors. Who cares about hurting a narcissist's feelings... Apparently you do, good Dr.
You’re phenomenal!! In the sea of npd videos rarely if ever does the creator preface that the behaviors are subconscious. This is grossly negligent as that forms social cognition and before you know it ten fold worse counter abuse. We already see this in the videos of many mental health (mh) specialists who make content, as holistic as they appear about mh and even conduct online interviews more to review something an individual has been struggling with, as the interview progresses and one senses there maybe some underlying narcissistic traits you can see the shift in the provider to a neutral or subtle annoyance. Again, likely stemming from social cognition with majority of discussion of this particular personality disorder having a permissible environment to allow disdain and neglect the subconscious nature. Bravo!! I hope your channel will be very successful. Thank you for your integrity and generosity!
Indeed. While in other videos they are mostly described as total monsters devoid of any humanity (they can sometimes fall that low though if they possess a high level of sociopathy), this guy provides a more objective and fair overview of the personality disorder. Although they can do a lot of harm to people around them and most of the time the best course of action is to stay away, it's good to understand that most are simply mentally ill and broken individuals who, deep inside, also suffer and are very unhappy. Those who look for it, deserve a chance to heal and redeem themselves if they can.
I want to thank you for bringing a more level headed approach to this topic. I spent 2 years with someone who in the very first few months I asked was she a succubus. I could tell something was off. She told me little snippets about her childhood that were alarming but she laughed them off. When she initially discarded me as most call it I was devastated. A few weeks later she brought me back in. I started too notice her imbalances more as they were more common. I asked her why she would not go deep with me into things but I told her everything about myself but yet I still knew fairly little about her death of character and person. I can tell that I was more devalued now than I had ever been before but I sought answers and I clung on to hope. I've known this woman for 30 years and I know that deep down side she's a good person and what I do know about her and her childhood is a tragedy. She was forged into who she is in a hellscape for any child. I also believe her mother is the single largest cause of this personality disorder. I think I've been able to piece together from what she's told me fairly simple yet accurate narrative of her childhood. Unfortunately because of her unwillingness to talk to me about these things I sought answers for the things she did on the internet. I realize some of these actions were from her child abuse but as I looked further for more specific details I finally stumbled across narcissistic personality disorder. I while understanding human psychology fairly well and not a psychologist. And I didn't even know that NPD was even a thing I thought it was just a broad term for grandiose people with an inflated self-worth. I bought into Dr Romani's narrative as well as the plethora of similar narratives that people who suffer from NPD are terrible monstrous people that want to do nothing but crush your soul in an effort to make themselves feel good. For two months I devoured this information and while doing so tested things out on this woman. And she reacted and what I would call textbook fashion. It finally came to a head for me when I could no longer tolerate the silent treatment via text or the discarding behavior and armed with all my toxic knowledge I had learned and anger and sadness I struck out at her an effort to make a death blow to her NPD in the form of narcissistic injury. And I hit hard. And then I discarded her and gave her the silent treatment and shut her out for my life The things I said were cruel to her. Because I bought into the hype. Over the last few weeks though being a fairly empathic person I started to feel remorse because I know the source of her pain and her condition comes from a traumatic upbringing that I would wish upon no one. And two little too late here I am stumbling across your perspective on NPD. I wish I had come across your channel much sooner. I prefer your narrative on the topic as I would like to believe that people who suffer from this condition are not a complete lost cause. To be abandoned by everyone and avoided. Because of my actions I don't see any chance of me ever being able to be a friend again. Though I did send her an apology with several of your videos attached to hopefully get her to see what she does and why she does it. I know for a fact over the last couple of years she knows something's wrong but she doesn't know what it is and so I feel sorry for her and I feel awful for what I did. I hope your message and others with a similar message can garner the lions share of the attention on this mental disorder. I think the reason the very negative outlook on this has taken hold is simply because people are petty when they are hurt as I was. I understand you put up with a lot of s*** for a long time and you hurt and you're mad and you want to extract your pound of flesh. You need to remember these are people. Adults but children inside that were devastated at an early age I'm not one for harboring anger and resentment for my entire life. Though like most people I am reactive in my moments of hurt and did not subscribe to the high road and my preferred philosophy of cooler heads prevail. This because I bought into the toxic narrative about these people. I'm fairly certain it's impossible for me to even rekindle a friendship because of what I said. I appreciate your perspective doctor. I wish I had seen this sooner. And for anyone who reads this with a more rational state of mind regarding this disorder don't be reactive like me. Take the high road and don't apply a scorched earth policy. If you care about these people I would suggest getting this information to them from this channel via an email or text. Thoughtfully and accurately describe your position in this. Don't engage them verbally as it will only lead to real-time conflict and most likely denial.
If people with NPD don’t know what their doing, why is it Dr that they are able to alter their behaviour in an instant should say …. their boss from work turn up , or the neighbour they have been portraying a lovely personality to…. No you’ve got it very wrong and are in fact doing victims of narcissistic abuse, particularly those still in such relationships , a great disservice
@col2959 - As I've said elsewhere, the point of this video is not to suggest that narcissists are completely unaware of their own behavior, as though they were stumbling around in a dark room. That would be absurd. The point is to emphasize that pathological narcissism is a mental illness, and mental illnesses impact perception. Perception influences behavior. Basically, people with pathological narcissism and NPD often rely on a defense called splitting. Splitting creates separate silos or islands of perception. When in one self-state, the person may view themselves, others, circumstances, and relationships one way. When in a different self-state, they may have vastly different perceptions. Perception influences behavior. The self that relates to family members may be vastly different than the self that relates to a boss. Just because someone can code switch and behave professionally toward a boss, or sit nicely at a fancy restaurant, doesn't exclude the possibility that they are mentally ill. Narcissists often project their unwanted qualities onto those around them. This is caused by underlying confusion in the personality between self and others. They are more likely to have this confusion when it comes to people with whom they are very close and comfortable. They are far less likely to have this confusion with a boss or stranger they are first meeting. They are likely to default to "professional" or "polite" communication with such a figure, even if they were moments ago in the throes of an angry tirade toward a family member. Additionally, narcissists have impaired self-esteem. They rely on those around them to 'puff up' or improve their self-image. They accomplish this by ingratiating themselves toward those who have status or people that they admire. This often translates to flattering behavior toward a boss or someone with high status, while they may be dismissive or devaluing toward those who are close to them.
I really appreciate this video. I am starting to believe my experience strongly aligns with vulnerable narcissism. I hate it, and I hate myself for not developing better coping mechanisms in response to trauma. I just want to do and be better without falling into these “trap” thoughts that distort reality around me. I’m so so tired and I want to feel loved because I’ve actually earned it, not because I’ve demanded it.
Wow well said. Been married to one for 27years I always felt his pain. To make a long story short the worse thing is silence treatment I have to go to others to talk and communicate.
I know they're Not happy, desolate at times and I feel for them. However at aged in my early see ixties I've had to say enough is enough! I think your knowledge is quite wonderful, insightful and very kind hearted, and wisely empathic....thank you, and it's helpful for someone I have at this stage lost!
Hello Dr. Ettensohn. I am new to your channel and enjoying the educational videos very much. I appreciate your work. I am having trouble with this video not because I don't understand that the NPD individual is mentally ill and often unaware of their behavior but a recent experience has left me very confused. I agree that the grandiose behavior and even the rages I dealt with from this person were just normal for her and she did seem completely unaware of the gravity of her actions. But when I decided to try and go no contact which was impossible because we are both heavily involved in the same community this person has actively pursued me in malicious ways that I just cannot believe she would be unaware of. She stalked me for several months she would say terrible things in public right in front of me and then look my way to see if I would react. This person would do things and then turn and smirk with a pretty terrifying glaring stare. She hangs round and listens to all of my conversations blatantly and she has tried to turn my friends against me. When that didn't work she just started flaunting that my friends were now her friends when before she was trying to turn me against all of my friends and monopolize all of my time. I just don't understand how she could be unaware of what she is doing when I am getting knowing glances and smirks. I am truly confused
She's playing with you. Don't even waste your attention on it. There can still be a big payoff even when she's in denial about her actions and motivations. Denial is an unconscious defense mechanism, by definition.
NPD have a good grip on knowing their many manipulations and wrongs. Yes it is of course some dysfunction whether abusive or too much praise and of course there are predispositions. It’s a defence mechanism and it’s not easy infiltrated. I grew up around narcissists and who they were outside the front door and behind it are 2 very different things. I know someone with narcissistic personality disorder and he has been to every specialist in the land and is medicated. There is and will never be change.
@@healnpd it’s a male and their is low grade depression and anxiety. It is more so used as a relaxant. This person was in therapy with someone who specialises in personality disorders, to no change. Indeed comorpidity is likely very likely yes.
@@healnpd my mother was the same started therapy didn’t like what she heard and left and never went back. She knew when to abuse and when to turn on the charm for others. Also highly allergic to the word sorry.
@@healnpd it’s very difficult to be empathetic when you suffered massive abuse at the hands of a narcissist. I’m dysfunctional and a recovering codependent but I never would abuse. My mother was very happy too.
Thanks Doctor. I understand what you are saying as a friend of mine didn't seem to think he had done anything wrong or been dishonest. I am seeing that NPD is very serious and complicated mental illness.
This is so accurate and yet none of the self proclaimed gurus on youtube has ever come close to describe. All they know is to depict the npd individuals as evil masterminds who enjoy torturing other people.
There are two profound realizations that I have come to accept. Both can exist side by side while appearing to sound mutually exclusive: 1) toxic/narcissistic personalities are manifestations of internal trauma for which the sufferer is ill equipped to manage or mitigate. Generally, it isn't a behavior that can be controlled. 2) In the wake of a toxic person's journey is a profound trail of sorrow, tears and blood. To suggest they cannot see it cannot be construed to infer they cannot be held responsible. I've seen many of the channels, both compassionate and derisive. Though both are potentially refreshing - depending on the spirit of the content creator - I'm still left a bit less than satisfied. This channel included.
Re 1), it can't be controlled if they aren't aware of what they dealing w/. I'm sure that's why you qualified w/ "generally". I think you're right on 2) as well. People are ultimately responsible for their actions, and they can learn to cope better. I did not find the derisive ones satisfying at all. It helped a bit in the beginning to feel validated for what I went through w/ them, but it's too unhealthy to see myself as a victim. I find this kind of channel much more refreshing. I knew there had to be a better viewpoint than the usual Dr. Ramani stance. What is it that you are looking for if you find neither satisfying? I can understand not wanting to go back to a place where you enable them to hurt you some more because of misplaced compassion. That's not what a channel like this leads me to.
@@nowyouknowrealestate5703 I don't know what the key in therapy is to getting them to take accountability? I've heard it relies on a trusting relationship w/ their therapist. NPD does seem to be a disorder based on not being able to trust, so they have all these harmful defense mechanisms. That's if I'm starting to understand even the basics of what is at the root of it.
@@saintejeannedarc9460'm sorry it has taken over a month to see your comment. Your thoughts gave me pause to reflect upon mine. We don't disagree, though we see the same thing from two different lenses. Before I answer your question, I'll share something I learned from experience. When I was studying Japanese tea ceremony, my teacher shared a thought with me that was very profound and life altering... "The most difficult thing to master is simplicity..." That's the ballgame. Right there. Simplicity. When we become expert at things, we have a tendency to shroud ourselves in nomenclature and other esoteric fare. Such things, while they validate and project our expertise and wisdom, create distance between the examiner and the phenomena being examined. So it is with clinicians, of which this channel's creator asserts himself as being. I listened to this video again, to see if I felt the same way as I did when I originally commented. I did notice some slight nuanced shifts in how I experienced this content. It sounded far more cogent that before - maybe that has to do with the clarity I gained over time. That said, I still feel the creator being a bit distant from the problem on the ground. I do feel that I have a richer understanding of the phenomenon of NPD. But I don't feel this content advances any meaningful sense of "oneness" between myself and the cluster b phenomenon I am exploring. The complexity - or lack of simplicity - maintains a bit of separation. This is less than satisfying for me. Ironically, the most significant shift I experienced watching cluster b content online came while watching Sam Vaknin's presentation of the false self and shared fantasy. That's when I could truly feel compassion and empathy for the internal struggle faced by sufferers of cluster b disorders. And Vaknin is an unadulterated charlatan, IMHO!!! But I guess it's kinda like the principle of the hacker being the best person to set up your online security infrastructure LOL 🤣
@@BillRWare We certainly don't want to achieve any sort of oneness w/ Cluster B problems, that's for sure. If have had to deal w/ someone closely who has it, and it's left us devastated, then finding some empathy for the person w/ the disorder can help us to not take it so personally. It can soften the sting. If you found a breakthrough byway of Sam Vaknin, then so be it. I find him very obtuse and convoluted. He's obviously bright, but keeps things far more complicate than they need to be. I've never gotten any clarity from him myself, but some do. How do you find him a charlatan? He does seem to have the disorder.
I'm convinced that most pathological narcissists do in fact know what they are doing and can control their behavior under certain circumstances; but I agree that their perception is distorted and that they often lack full control or awareness of why they are doing what they're doing.
Hi Dr Ettensohn, could you possibly do a video about the true self in pwNPD? Do you believe there isn’t a true self, or is the true self the tortured/ neglected child? Also ways we can develop a healthier, adult personality or self. I do have a voice of reason and a voice which does seem to be speaking from a place of more clarity, am curious if this is the true self…it is often over ridden by other parts however. Thanks for the great content, cannot describe how much you’re helping.
With all due respect doctor if you havent personally experienced a relationship with a narcissist you couldn't possibly understand. Even self aware narcissist admit they are fully aware of what they are doing and know its wrong amd they will purposely punish you and cheat and abuse you very well knowing its wrong all to serve themselves. Also projection is their confession which also shows they are aware of what they doing but project to onto you to avoid accountability and responsibility for the shame and guilt of their actions. Im a year divorced now after 7 years amd during that time iv learnt and reflected alot on what my ex wife did and said she has admitted she knows her affair as a married women with a married man is wrong but she is doing it for herself because its what she wants and many other confessions and projections proves she was aware and did it on purpose
I appreciate that a narcissistic abuser may not be aware of how abusive they are. Mental illness is no joke. And no matter what a person's diagnosis is, they do not have the right to abuse you.
This video makes me think that the people who I thought to be narcissistic, are actually just assholes, because they definitely seem to be aware of what they are doing!!!
😂😂😂 yep! Right there with you. Mine controlled it so much that no one believed me for years. Too bad there wasn’t cell phones for recordings until the last decade.
I am a child of a narcissist , also I have encountered a few others ... all of them seem to take great pride in being an asshole and endeavor to be best that they can .... lthey also had to crash parties , as they were never invited ... garce
Thank you for this video. It has helped me quite a bit dealing with my wife. When she blew up the other day, accusing me of something that all of a sudden is something she has been annoyed over every single day, it is good to know that she is not saying that to try and hurt me, by adding weight to her claim. Instead, knowing this is what she believes in that instant, and that she is not consciously attacking me, means I don't need to be defensive, nor getting hurt. If anything, it kind of amused me, because I remembered watching this video not long ago. She is probably a covert, always the victim, always knows better, and easily offended. She always has to have the last word, and I used to believe she delighted in pushing me down, telling me she remembers everything so clearly, and telling me my memory is poor. We have been married for about six years, and it has had effects on me, making me think twice before uttering views, to ensure they were rock solid. I started feeling quite insecure around her, because everything is picked at. Say a word wrong, and her laser focus is on it. Now I realize she probably thinks she is being funny, or just idly commenting, and that in her mind she has no clue how belittling she can be, or that it is what she does over and over again. The somewhat sad conclusion for me is that I have downgraded the importance and relevance I used put in what she tells me. She can't help being like this, but I have to manage, and talking back, trying to argue is pointless. Instead I smirk inside, being careful not to show it on the outside, instead offering support or sympathy, without feeling it much, of course. One becomes a proficient actor over time.
Ok, I'll accept the scolding that my sympathy for the Narcissist's plight could be better. Still, my belief that having a horrible childhood combined with the genetic predisposition giving rise to an honest-to-goodness, genuine, authentic bonafide "mental illness" does not give one license to be mercilessly cruel to other people. The square peg that simply cannot fit into the round hole of narcissist-apologist's explanations is that they can flip it on and off at will. A narcissist can be engaged in Defcon 1 Level abuse of someone and upon realizing they are being recorded or observed from an outside party, FLIP their tactic immediately. They instantly, and quite miraculously turn into the innocent victim of circumstance... just a sweet, misunderstood kitten. If narcissistic rage, or splitting, or devaluing, or lack of empathy, or lack of self- awareness was really just the byproduct of a defense mechanism, then how are they able to suddenly "act normal" in the blink of an eye? To me, it means they are keenly aware that what they are doing is wrong, unacceptable and abusive and they can stop doing it if they really wanted to. The problem is: they don't.
Precisely ! Hopefully the good Doctor, who most likely has very limited real life experience with NPD , gives this indisputable truth deep consideration and reevaluate his interesting position
What they are doing they know can be perceived as wrong. However, in their mind they don't believe it's wrong because they feel entitled and feel they are justly punishing you. In their minds whenever you say truths that shatter their delusions, they perceive as intentional attack to hurt them. Whether your statements are true or false is irrelevant because they are convinced you actual intention was simply to make them feel bad. In short, they are delusional.
Very true sir ...all you Said is true .... Tho some are enjoy what they are doing ... Some really feel empty inside & just keep seeking validation to complete them or define them ... But external validation can never conquer what we believe about our own selves
my opinion is people with covert abuse know how to hide there abuse and its not just physical its emotional and they know how to hurt you cause they can hurt you and get away with it cause they play the victim want to know how to spot them look for some one crying with no tears
