DO NOT Sum Your Stereo Rig to Mono! (do this instead)

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⚠️ High Quality Audio Alert ⚠️ Headphones Recommended! Go to 08:25 for the sound clips!
Today, I am going to show you why you DON'T want to sum your stereo guitar signal to mono. I'll walk you through exactly what it means to sum your stereo signal, and ways you can get a mono signal out of your stereo rigs, without wrecking your tone!
What differences did you hear in the playing examples? Let us know in the comments below!
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CONTRIBUTORS:
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Justin Derrico - Audio Clips/Guitar
#DIYPedalboard #RigDoctor #MonoSum

Опубликовано:

28 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 613

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

*High Quality Audio Alert! Headphones Recommended!* Skip to 08:25 for the sound comparisons! Today, I am going to show you why you DON'T want to sum your stereo guitar signal to mono. I'll walk you through exactly what it means to sum your stereo signal, and ways you can get a mono signal out of your stereo rigs, without wrecking your tone! Let us know what you think in the comments!

@itechstrum 3 года назад

Sometimes I don't wanna bring along two Powercab 112 Plus, I'm plugging left on the first input and right on the second input of the PC112+, I'm hearing both left and right on a mono fashion, or maybe I'm under a placebo effect? lol. Am I doing the right thing?

@patrickrobinson1935 3 года назад

shots fired @jhs

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

@@patrickrobinson1935 no shots fired, would apply to any sum box, JHS or otherwise.

@patrickrobinson1935 3 года назад

@@VertexEffectsInc yes I have been considering running rig in stereo only to discover most stereo pedals aren't TRUE stereo anyway unless they have dual effects engines

@GearSounds 3 года назад

You taught me a great lesson today. NEVER USE ANOTHER JHS PRODUCT. LOL no but really, this was an amazing breakdown. The mono sounded better than the summed signal.

@carminelombardi9575 10 месяцев назад

Your the one I can trust to give the highest level of knowledge for anything that's pedal or pedalboard related. I was about to buy the "Walrus Audio Canvas Mono Line Isolator D.I.", that has the summing to mono feature, but after hearing and seeing this video explanation, I'm going for the Canvas stereo model instead. It's so appreciated, thank you.

@JensLarsen 3 года назад

Really interesting, and amazingly clear examples! Learned a lot, Thank you!

@JazzRockswithAdam 3 года назад

Jens, Mason tends to have a knack for that. 😉

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Glad it was helpful!

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Thanks Adam!

@countstoneula 3 года назад

I’ve almost always ran a mono live rig until getting the HX Stomp last year. Now I’m running stereo “amps” almost all the time and have considered a summing box for times when I can’t have two inputs at the sound board. The HX Stomp outputs in either Mono or Stereo depending on what is plugged in the outputs when you power it up. So I’ve just done this power up trick a couple times to run it in mono but kind of felt I was missing out and was planning to get a summing box in the near future. So the timing on this video was excellent, and very informative. It’s nice to know I don’t need another pedal for once. 🤣

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Glad you found it helpful!

@randysosa7616 3 года назад

I run my Boss DD-20 in parallel by "jumping" output 1 into input 2. It really opens up the delay and all I need is an extra patch cable since I don't have access to the software. Great info, love the video.

@obhmusic 3 года назад

not parralel..

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Thanks for sharing!

@gary9564 7 месяцев назад

I have a whole pedal board going into a line6 hx one (mono left) then out in stereo into 2 seperate amps. No humming, no phase switching.

@melody-ng6rt 3 года назад

This is the opinion of a giging musician for over 20 years in goa and the world. Thanks for spreading the wise. Commenting through my wife's account BTW

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

thanks for watching!

@lukehouglum4731 3 года назад

Good stuff! I wish you'd also demoed the summing of a wet-dry rig. That's where I see the value of summing boxes like the JHS.

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

I don't think you'll hear much benefit, same as the stereo rig to the mono rig summed.

@worshipguitarcovers6916 3 года назад

Nice Video! this is actually my problem. I have Timeline and Bigsky at the end of my chain and because of home recording I was able to wire it in stereo then plug into audio interface in stereo. When going on live sessions I use only 1 amp and I have to remove all the stereo connection from Timeline to Bigsky because if I don't it will only give me half sound to the amp. Its a hassle pulling out pedals and patches.

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Glad I could help!

@jonathancarmichael1578 8 месяцев назад

Your videos are always helpful. Thanks for the knowledge. I was planning to set up a summing switch on my w/d/w pedalboard for when mono is my only option. Thanks to this video, I've saved myself a lot of trial and error.

@bjstickney 3 года назад

I used Goodwood audio output and that has 2 sum options, left only or combine L and R, plus phase and ground loop. Worked great for me when I used it

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

I think it's just one sum option and the other one is the left only as I suggest. The polarity switch won't be that valuable in mono, in particular if one of your pedals upstream inverts, but I don't think it's an active summing network is it? I don't think you can control the mix, it's just 50/50 L to R. Equally the ground lift isn't useful on the summed output or the mono (what they're calling split summed, but it's just mono) as you're only running a signal amp presumably? If you compare the summed stereo to the hard panned left mono as we did here - I think you'll hear the difference just like you did in the clips we compared here in real time.

@bjstickney 3 года назад

@@VertexEffectsInc yes the polarity and ground lift are just for stereo. It’s just nice to have the left only option as opposed to just 50 50 split. Great informative video. I love playing in stereo but only do it at home now haha. Carrying 2 amps isn’t fun lol

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

@@bjstickney I hear ya, thanks for watching!

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

@@bjstickney I hear ya!

@chrisstrutt4964 3 года назад

Thanks! I've been thinking about summing (Timeline > Flint then into HX Stomp Stereo or single amp depending on where I'm playing) but this has shed light on a few of my questions.

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

I'm glad you found it helpful!

@redcomn 3 года назад

Didn't flint has stereo input tho.

@musicproductionfilm2339 Год назад

I liked and subscribed! This was very informative, and the sound quality was as good as the content. Great job with the sound clips and the discussion around the issue. I have some stereo-capable pedals and some mono pedals, so this hit home; it's like, what's the BEST way to run these into an amp -- or two amps (or two channels on an audio interface or mixer, in a live sound scenario).

@marccarter1350 2 месяца назад

I just use a Roland JC 77. I run 2 channels at one which gives me stereo from one amp

@nickkellie 2 года назад

You just saved me money. Thank you!

@VertexEffectsInc 2 года назад

Glad I could help!

@danielhurtuk6203 3 года назад

Thanks for that topic! 👍

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

My pleasure! Thanks for watching!

@dirtmerchantlc324 Год назад

The Strymon BigLie excuse me. . . . *Cough* "BigSky" is actually a DUAL MONO pedal. Just try to run a ping-pong delay (an echo effect that bounces to the left then right) in front of the reverb pedal (the most commonly used signal path) and you will notice it will echo out of the L/R sides simultaniously. Even worse: I tried using the LEFT INs / OUTs for an FX loop on Amplifier 1, and the RIGHT INs / OUTs for a different FX loop on amp 2. The end result was the pre amps from each amp being mixed together and each FX return was Preamps (1+2) Left and Preamps (1+2) right. If you are crazy like me and want to use a STEREO reverb pedal this way, finding out it is summing to DUAL MONO makes it 100% not worth the $500.00. I have yet to try a Boss RV 500, but I hope it keeps the Left and Right inputs independant from eachother. I will buy one immediately if I can confirm it is actually a true stereo in and stereo out pedal - nomatter what it costs. If any of you think im full of it, please let me know lol. More than happy to have a conversation.

@fairtexmma 3 года назад

But what if I want to run mono into an iridium and stereo out to an hex effects? Do these same rules apply?

@jeremyschissler337 3 года назад

get another iridium bro

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

The Strymon has it's own internal summing in it - so this will work better that most because the hardware to sum in not external to the device. So if you run mono out of the Iridum you can use the switch on the back for that, or at least compare to what it sounds like summed versus a TS cable out of the HX Effects into the input of the Iridium instead of TRS.

@jmd12331 3 года назад

@@VertexEffectsInc I have an iridium as well. Since you need to use a double ts to single trs cable to go stereo would that also mean disconnecting the last pedal’s right output and change the input switch in the iridium back to mono? I’m asking because I’m not sure if it would behave differently since it would still have a trs input.

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

@@jmd12331 I think if you select the mono input it disables either the ring or the tip so you're only getting one - but I can't say for sure as I didn't design the product.

@pascal006 3 года назад

Little off subject question! When you use a stereo effect pedal to split the signal (as opposed to say an active ABY switch) to two amps like you seem to have done in this video, is there a significative signal loss? Or the only difference between active aby switchers and stereo effects pedal when it comes to signal splitting is the ability to flip the phase and ground option? Should the stereo effect pedal in this application be buffered? Thanks!

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

If you're using the last stereo pedal to split to a stereo set up it should be the same on both the L and R presuming they're the same amps, set the same. Not all stereo devices invert so you may not necessarily have an issue. If you use two different amps for these stereo image the amps might have inverted polarity so that could also be a problem, but you can resolve this easily with getting an inverted speaker cable and using it on one. The only issue you can't sold is the isolation, most stereo pedals don't have any galvanic isolation like this and will require some sort of iso transformer if you do have hum.

@marcusstrymon693 Год назад

Strymon does mono sum the signal that goes into the fx. With the mobius, this means the flanger does sum to mono bc its 100 percent wet. Annoying

@chrisyoung8062 3 года назад

You're right...huge difference.

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Yes! Don't wreck your stereo tone!!!

@18JR78 3 года назад

I’m staring at the screen until it premieres. Practicing my patience. 💻👀⏳🕰

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

hahahahahah

@18JR78 3 года назад

I made it. Worth it Thx. 💻💀

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

@@18JR78 so glad you dig it

@herr101 3 года назад

Thanks for the video! What about if I run a 2x12 box with the speakers wired stereo in it? (with 2 inputs of course) Could the phase cancelling happen inside the box? Can the 2 speaker "weakens" each other? Or could this effect be negligible?

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Your cabinet won't change anything.

@TheAtheistworld Год назад

Pro as always. Thnxx bro❤

@mattgilbert7347 3 года назад

These "summing" solutions sound too complicated and problematic, (or simply don't work) - I'd much rather stay mono (L input/output if the device is stereo) or go properly stereo or wet/dry if I have the option. Thanks for the info.

@RedCarRecords 3 года назад

Right? Let’s just say that these mono sum pedals worked better than what he’s proposing in the video... what is the difference from that and just using the mono outputs of your stereo devices?

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

I agree...in most cases the "cure" is worse than the disease.

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

I showed this in the video...with sound examples. Skip to around 8 mins.

@mattgilbert7347 3 года назад

@@VertexEffectsInc Up next: Analog dry-thu! Please?

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

@@mattgilbert7347 what about it? You can make any pedal analog dry thru with a parallel mixer...a good cheap one is a Rolls Mini Stereo Mixer.

@colsontowingllc3309 3 года назад

Is there a docta in the house!!!??? good tips here doc!

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

LOL! Thanks for watching Colson!

@getvicky13 3 года назад

I have a question about this regarding how this would work in a W/D/W setup. My Atomic Amplifire has 4 modes of output - Mono sum, Stereo, Dual mono L, Dual mono R. If I want to take an output from my Atomic, into my H9 (in kill dry) for my stereo wet fx, would I have to use the dual mono mode instead of the mono sum?

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Vikram, is the H9 coming after your Atomic? It depends on how it's being run. If it's occurring after the Atomic, then YES, I would do what you see here in the video - it doesn't appear from your description that you a parallel mixer for it, is that right? If you did, you could use the mixer to do it and might not need to use the internal software to make the adjustment or at least would be worth a comparison to evaluate.

@getvicky13 3 года назад

@@VertexEffectsInc yes, the H9 is after the Atomic. And there's no parallel mixer, just the 1/4" outputs from the Atomic. It has a pair of L & R outputs the can function as mono sum, stereo, dual mono left and dual mono right.

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

@@getvicky13 you would need to make the adjustment on the H9.

@MrDrCol Год назад

Hey there: Very informative. I am looking for a one-amp solution for an NS-Stick (stereo output) where I can have a single device (I'm considering the Boss GT-1000 Core), that will process each input separately, then somehow wangling a single output so I don't have to lug two amps onstage at a small club or a 30 minute set at a non-backlined festival setting. Help me Obi-Wan, you're my only hope.

@78tag 6 месяцев назад

I see you got the same response that just about everyone gets - zero.

@austineatmon 3 года назад

What would you recommend in the case where I currently use a Timeline and BigSky as my only stereo pedals and I plan to use the Goodwood Audio Interfacer as my junction box? I saw where the manual gives 2 different summing options: Stereo Sum - This is the default mode The TX Interfacer ships with. In this mode use stereo effects as normal. When summed, the left and right inputs are merged and the exact same signal is sent to the left and right outputs. Split sum - Still use stereo effects as normal. When summed, the right input is ignored and the left input is split to both left and right outputs. Would split sum be the same as essentially just using my left outputs? Or would I better off to unplug all stereo cables and only use the left output of the interfacer? (I'm assuming just using the left output of the interfacer would be akin to running just the left out of my BigSky)

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

I'm not sure of there definition but technically there should be no "SUM" just one output used. I would just leave it as a stereo interface and plug into only one output if that's an option, there shouldn't be any summing occurring in this case.

@danielnuzum8117 2 года назад

I have a question, with this implemented, do loop switchers sum every pedal in a mono output?

@VertexEffectsInc 2 года назад

They don't typically sum, just use one side of the L and R channel depending on the output used on a stereo set up.

@lunarlabaudio 3 года назад

Bummer. I guess it’s good I haven’t gotten that Goodwood Underfacer - I assume this would have the same negative effects? Do you know if something like the HX would have the same issue if you use a stereo block and then only use the left out? It collapses the signal down to mono so would you get comb filtering?

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

I think the Goodwood has an option to just have the left only of a stereo image if I'm not mistaken - I think they call it "Split Sum"

@telecasper 3 года назад

The interfacer also a phase inverter for the outputs - I guess that minimizes the potential issues..?

@makeajazznoiseYTstoleit Год назад

I appreciate this video. However what if I have a dual mono signal path and I want to put in a CE-2w (only mono in) on one side and then sum the second stereo out to the other side of my dual mono path, to achieve the CE-2 sound across both of my amps. Would that work?

@VertexEffectsInc Год назад

Why not just use a mixer like the Rolls MX-28?

@makeajazznoiseYTstoleit Год назад

@@VertexEffectsInc oh interesting suggestion, I'll check that out! I suppose I could find an approximation of the CE-2s default L and R mix through trial and error of mixing it into the dual mono paths. Thanks!

@garrettevans1318 3 года назад

What about running two outputs out of your stereo pedal into the fx loop of a line 6 pedal board and then going out of the line 6 pedal board in mono into a mono di box?

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Same problem the Line 6 is just another stereo pedal.

@rjwije4874 7 месяцев назад

Great video...Thank you

@mattlynn6157 2 года назад

Good video. On my new board I’m using the line 6 hx stomp to run effects after a couple dry pedals like the sss. Going to save DSP and blocks by doing cabs through the cabzeus. Was going to go out of the HX into my wet pedal then into the Zeus. And my dry side just from HX to Zeus. Was thinking since the. Zeus had two cabs I would one wet and one dry but it has stereo in and out for the wet. How would you recommend the signal path in and out? It’s outs are stereo balanced. If I do wet dry I couldn’t just use the left. If I use the fx loop of the HX for the wet it sums it’s outputs before going into the Zeus.

@VertexEffectsInc 2 года назад

I would use the HX Stomp with three outputs, Send (dry), Output 1 (wet left), Output 2 (wet right). I would adjust your blocks in the HX so you can get your dry effects going out of the FX send, and the wet effects in stereo out of output 1 and 2. Output 1 and 2 will feed your Cab Zeus in stereo L and R and go into two channels of your mixer. The Send out of the HX will be the dry effects with a cab/amp treatment on it going to your third channel in your mixer. You now have three channels on your mixer, dry, wet left, wet right.

@mattlynn6157 2 года назад

@@VertexEffectsInc I like that. One reply/question: I want to setup the pedalboard so it's universal. IF I go to a gig and they simply will only allow one input into the mixer... would you have a patch bay on the board that has 4 outputs? One for the 3 wet,dry,wet that you describe and a 4th that mono's it all? Or just combines the left stereo and the mono/dry signal?

@VertexEffectsInc 2 года назад

@@mattlynn6157 just create a new set of blocks with all pedals/effects/amp and cab going out of the send (dry) output

@wanderwithwendell 2 года назад

What do you think of the sum option on the strymon iridium ? It takes a stereo rig and mono out with the sum toggle switch

@VertexEffectsInc 2 года назад

Same problem, you can't sum pedals externally. It would need to be done in each of the individual stereo pedals.

@dividedbytimestudios Год назад

What about my acoustic board, I run an HX Stomp, I was wanting to get a Walrus Canvas, the mono Canvas has a Sum button that allows you to run stereo in and mono out, it’s cheaper than the stereo canvas pedal, is it worth it?

@michaelanzelino5068 3 года назад

Why would some one take the trouble to set up a stereo rig, just to bring it back to mono?

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

We all want to be rock stars!

@mgband 2 года назад

Old comment, but I have a use case: Home studio with guitars, synths, amps and silent recording through Captor X. Stereo rig set up for synth sound design but would like the option of mono for use with the Captor X through mono amp for guitar recording. I am here to figure out how to go back and forth without sacrificing tone or rewiring pedalboard over and over again.

@TheAlpineProject 3 года назад

For some reason the first stereo example sounded, to me, like it had virtually no wet signal versus the mono reference. It almost sounds like the canceled out/summed version. Also, does this mean that with one of your interface boxes I could go to mono just by unplugging the right output from the last stereo pedal? Would I need to unplug it from the interface input as well?

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

What are you listening on? I hear the stereo as the best sounding of all the examples in terms of getting the modulation and delay with the widest spread. I would unplug into only one output on the interface box, and not the last pedal before the interface, especially if you have the ability to hard pan your stereo signal to one side for the mono set up.

@TheAlpineProject 3 года назад

@@VertexEffectsInc I'm listening through headphones. It's really odd but yeah, the first example sounds like it has minimal effect, if any. The next example and the last example both sound killer. I can go listen to other stereo stuff on RU-vid and it comes through fine so I'm unsure as to what the issue is.

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

@@TheAlpineProject I'm not getting that through my Adam A7X monitors, haven't tried it in my phone yet.

@TheAlpineProject 3 года назад

@@VertexEffectsInc It sounds more like it should through my little television. I've got no proper monitors right now though. Maybe something's up with my headphones but it doesn't sound very lush or prominent through them.

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

@@TheAlpineProject all good bro!

@scottpeters4401 3 года назад

I have an Axe FXIII with an H9 in the loop...everything stereo....my center dry channel is feeding the Axe/H9 via the line out on a Fryette PS2.....I want some dry signal in my wet cabs,but I read somewhere that the H9 flips the phase....will this be a problem??I know I could just make the wet cabs 100 percent wet,then it wouldn’t matter,but I want a little dry in both cabs...

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Could be - you might have the option to to correct this in the AXFX, also the H9 doesn’t have analog dry thru, may not be critical since this is all digital but normally in a wet/dry this would be problematic without a mixer.

@scottpeters4401 3 года назад

@@VertexEffectsInc the AxeFXIII has a mixer built in,and the ability to reverse the phase....just wasn’t sure how this would work if only the H9 is reversed,simply reversing the phase on one,effect the other?....I have heard other rigs like this with an HX FX and an H9 with no problems,so maybe it won’t be an issue....

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Easy way to test polarity is to hit your low e string and invert it back and forth and the position with the filler bass typically is the one that’s right - you can also see this in most recording software as well.

@scottpeters4401 3 года назад

@@VertexEffectsInc Thank you for the insight...I will play around with it...I am building the rig now....I just thought of something though....The H9 will be inserted in one of the Loops on the AxeFXIII,so I could set the H9 to 100 percent wet,then run it in a parallel path,and mix it into the dry portion of the signal....any phase issues could be addressed within the Fractal.....trying to wrap my brain around all this stuff....Thanks for your help though....I subscribed....interesting stuff...

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

@@scottpeters4401 Thanks for watching and for the sub!

@ferenccseh4037 3 года назад

What I was hoping to hear about is how youtube or your phone or whatever ruins the sound quality a lot when you use a mono output (like the phone's speaker) compared to using a stereo output (like a headset)

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

That can be a compromise too.

@aaronsanchez93 3 года назад

So would this be the same set up for a stomp? I have my drives and octave mono and wet effects stereo into the loop into my stomp and all my effects in the stomp ran stereo. So if I need to run mono I can just hook into my stomp L output?

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

I'm not sure I understand your signal path, can you clarify?

@aaronsanchez93 3 года назад

@@VertexEffectsInc so I pretty much have my Dry effects like drives and my pog going into the stomp. And my wet effects into the send and return of the stomp. But I have my delay and reverb in stereo. Like my dd-500 and hall of fame.

@aaronsanchez93 3 года назад

So my complete signal is Polytune> Ego compressor > POG > jhs DB> age five state drive> Scarlett love V1 and then that goes into my stomp and for my times base effects boss DD-500 and hall of fame are in the send and return ( stereo) and then my amp and IR and all my effects after that are in stereo.

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

@@aaronsanchez93 I've actually seen some guys take the stereo out of the HX and use a box like the JHS Summing Amp to bring these back to mono as an alternative to using the left out only and say they prefer it. I haven't compared this myself or experimented with hard panning stereo devices inside of the FX Loop of the HX effects and using the HX as a controller to adjust the pedals. Because the TC doesn't have the ability to adjust the software (maybe in the Tone Prints?) you might not be able to do this effectively. I would experiment going out of the left output and putting the DD500 after the Reverb (which was common in the rack days), and panning the DD500 hard left and using the left output only on the HX Effects.

@aaronsanchez93 3 года назад

@@VertexEffectsInc I’ll definitely give this a try thanks! I’ll soon be getting a strymon Volante pretty soon will definitely try that with the Volante

@josephfelice601 3 года назад

Thanks for the info on polarity w/ regard to overdrives. Some pedals "Timmy" when in a chain seem to drop the signal, but when alone they sound great. Is there a cure for this?

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

A lot of pedals invert- however in most set ups you won't hear a difference since most of us run mono primarily

@josephfelice601 3 года назад

@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks Mason. What would cause the volume drop when certain overdrives are inserted? These are not cheap ones either.

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

@@josephfelice601 it wouldn't be the polarity if it was in mono, could be something after it that would be attenuating it or you could have a problem in the rig with a cable that doesn't like being drive by the output impedance of the Timmy, and easy solution would be to put a buffer after it to test that issue.

@josephfelice601 3 года назад

@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks I will try that. It's a strange thing, because I have tried it in different order schemes and it still an issue in level drop. Had this same problem with another well know brand of overdrives. Cheers

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

@@josephfelice601 what's the output impedance of the Timmy I wonder?

@mikaelhauk 2 года назад

Hey. How would the mono sum work with separate dry/wet signals? I'm a bass player, realized that having multiple active pedals each with their blend knob at 12 o Clock is not that great. I was thinking of running my envelope, fuzz and drive pedals on a separate wet signal and then summing them back to mono before my Chorus pedal (which is mono). Is that doable, or is there a better way to do this?

@VertexEffectsInc 2 года назад

If they're both mono signals you can blend them...try it.

@Davidvs91 3 года назад

Hey great video! What about the radial passive DI boxes. They have a sum button that sums 2 1/4 input signals in to a balance XLR output. Would I have the same issue with these?

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

You cannot sum pedals with external hardware...period. It's not the same as doing at the pedal internally.

@PavelDashkov 3 года назад

Boss rv500 summ channels internally if just left output is using. I hate it! It modulates delay very well in stereo. Looks like it uses dedicated LFO for left and right channels, so it sounds glorious in stereo, but after summing you get tails with very unpleasant phaser. So I uses just right output when I need mono. It sounds much better then "proper" mono output.

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Thanks for sharing your experience!

@rockobeall 2 года назад

What are your thoughts on split sum? Which is different kind of summing than stereo sum?

@VertexEffectsInc 2 года назад

Not sure what the means, I think someone made it up as it's not part of the typical signal routing vocabulary. Please clarify.

@rockobeall 2 года назад

@@VertexEffectsInc goodwood uses this terminology. They have a video called truth about summing. Split sum - Still use stereo effects as normal. When summed, the right input is ignored and the left input is split to both left and right outputs.

@Cam_B 2 года назад

@@rockobeall question is, why would anyone need that though?

@nojyeloot 2 года назад

Dumb question, but does this apply to modelers too?

@VertexEffectsInc 2 года назад

Yes indeed!

@spiralwall 2 года назад

What about if you have the pedals in a G3, I have 3 stereo pedals I use, what would be the best thing to do?

@VertexEffectsInc 2 года назад

Hey Al thanks for watching the video! What do you mean, could you elaborate more please?

@TheBukman 2 года назад

Hi Mason, Based on what you say if I keep my modulation effect (Mobius) as mono and then split this into stereo for delay (Tmeline) and reverb (Big Sky) would the pitfalls you mention about summing be mostly avoided?

@VertexEffectsInc 2 года назад

I think it’s better to just run them all in stereo and just run out of one side or the other without any SUM. It’s not the fact that they are in stereo and then just being run on one side or the other, it’s the fact that it’s merging the two stereo images into one.

@TheBukman 2 года назад

@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks Mason. So where you showed how you got the summed signals to work together by using your pedal software to do hard panning before merging I have a question on that. Could that same approach be achieved by feeding the left and right stereo lines into a mixer and hard panning them to the same side and then summing? Or is the software manipulation you are doing more then just panning? The summed version you demoed where you manipulated the software panning sounded great and would be much better than losing one side of the stereo signal especially where there might be ping pong delays on one side that you wouldn't hear.

@JuanArias-xr6je 3 года назад

you are the BOSS

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Thanks Juan for watching!

@rhythmjones 3 года назад

Right as I was watching this video, I got an email from Eventide. They're watching!!!

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Ha! Great pedals!

@lukeannis5844 Год назад

What about summing to mono on an XLR for direct to PA situations with something like the Radial SB-2? Wondering if XLR would handle mono any better in this case than 1/4”TS?

@cmurduh1 Год назад

The background music is very annoying

@ProdWoo 3 года назад

You mean I DON'T have to buy something else? Well I'll be!

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Nothing...use what you got! Maybe just download the software for your stereo effects if they have them.

@lucabertolaso2167 Год назад

Hi, my LG Smartphone have the ability to set mono output, I have to plug into a balanced mono xlr PA.

@mrsandroks 3 года назад

Stereo brings comb filter on outside of stereo sweet spot and mono brings phase cancellation and unbalanced audio.

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Most guys I'm speaking to here are not putting out records, are doing live performances - they should all be in mono. Rarely are they playing into stereo PAs.

@mrsandroks 3 года назад

@@VertexEffectsInc I don't understand. How about Spotify music playback summed up left+right to a PA speaker in mono is it full and balanced audio or no?

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Read my response again - I think we agree on what you’ve written for the most part - but you’re missing the context of most people watching this.

@gilbertsevdays Год назад

10:50 how to do that? i use joyo d-seed ii stereo delay and a boss gt6 multieffect which have a send and return

@AlexJonesAuraural 3 года назад

Very informative. Feels a little odd to name drop JHS repeatedly when, as you said, they’re not the only ones and it’s often the customer asking for the unit. Just feels like you’re dragging JHS

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Alex we went over this with a few other viewers below, you can check out, but I'll reiterate here. This is a product that I have and I use on occasion for certain applications. In no way is the product called into question or is any indictment made about the function or quality of the product, and as I mention in the video, there are lot of products that do a mono sum and "they are addressing the needs of what their customers are asking for" as stated in the video. Sure, you can construe that as a slight on JHS - but it's about the most uncharitable interpretation of the video, and is not the focus of the video. Rather the information is about how to get the most out of your stereo rig when you run it in mono and giving you a solution. I'm selling nothing, nor recommending anything that I make. It's about as objective as I can make this video using product that exist in the market as the exemplars.

@BradPham 3 года назад

Dude knows his stuff. But can you pan your right stereo signal hard left? I can’t. Better get me a roadie so I can always play with two amps*. * I haven’t gigged for 10 years, I have only one amp, and I’m a very average guitar player.

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

It depends on the guitar pedal itself, some of them will offer software were you can pan everything One Direction, and other devices you don’t have any control over this. It wouldn’t matter if you didn’t pan the right side if you’re only going out of the left, but you would want to make sure that the left has panned fully left, and not in the center

@BradPham 3 года назад

@@VertexEffectsInc Wait, what?! There’s another layer of madness?! You’ve got to pan your left hard left too? 😆 Nah. Great tip. All these little things add up when you’re amplifying through valve amps!

@victorcaio3965 3 года назад

Finally! I was waiting for this topic! Thanks Rig Doctor! ;)

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Yes!!!

@gilbertsevdays Год назад

10:50 how to do that? i use joyo d-seed ii stereo delay and a boss gt6 multieffect which have a send and return

@coolvibesradio3267 Год назад

You are using the summing amp wrong. That unit is not designed to do sum stereo sources like a chorus but to sum parallel signals. It's a routing device not a mixer, Jee read the manual!

@allenwhite1978 3 года назад

Really defeats the purpose of running stereo in the first place. I don’t see why someone would do this anyways outside a recording session.

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Yes indeed!

@elishadn 2 года назад

What I got out of this video - just buy two amps it’s easier lol

@VertexEffectsInc 2 года назад

Or just run mono :)

@elishadn 2 года назад

@@VertexEffectsInc that too I suppose 🤷🏽‍♂️

@JohnDoe-dh8xc 3 года назад

God I hate this premier feature

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

It'll be here soon enough!

@NickIverson 3 месяца назад

Can’t believe I’m just finding this video…. Could have saved me so much trial and error. Underrated - awesome comparison. Thanks!

@Gele_Rodrigo Год назад

good video! I have a question, if you are going to play live and you go to a table, I understand that it is better to put the effects in stereo on two channels, right?

@rhythmjones 3 года назад

I didn't even know mono summing was a thing until I watched this video. If I'm running two amps, I have a second board that I connect to my stereo fx on my main board. If I'm running one amp, I just use the main board plugged in to the left channels. EZPZ. Why complicate?

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

I think some believe it will sound closer to the stereo sound, it just won't.

@everonlyallforthee 3 года назад

Hey Vertex! Thanks for the vid. Question: my rig is currently running stereo delay into stereo reverb, out to two amps, out to FOH console with a dedicated channel for each amp. However, the mains are mono. So the summing is happening at the console. The nice wide stereo mix in my IEMs is great, but do you think it's problematic for what the crowd hears out of the mains? If so, what would be a better approach? Thanks for your time!

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

I don’t think there’s any reason to adjust your rig if the mixer is doing it, sort of out of your control at that point, you could of course experiment to see if just a straight mono mix into the input made any real sonic difference, but I highly doubt it, plus if you used it in any other application where you could go through stereo I don’t know that it would be worth disrupting your Pedalboard

@markallen381 Год назад

What I find amusing about this "STEREO" problem is that the guitar was never stereo to begin with. I understand the idea and I think that it's a great goal. I will eventually be using my guitar as a stereo instrument. "STEREO" is what you make of it. I will probably be using 2 totally different type of amps and use mikes for recording. Make your use totally creative and print the words "NOW IN STEREO" on your album jacket!

@78tag 6 месяцев назад

.... sorry but I respectfully disagree. Back in the day the Gibson es345 was specifically designed to push a stereo signal through a Gibson stereo amp. That was when the "big boys" predicted everything was going hi-fi / stereo - it never caught on.

@AnMuiren 3 года назад

So you could say Mono Sum has Zero Sum value? 😉

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Well said

@nobesmusic 3 года назад

This video was a huge eye opener for me Mason. Thank you! Gonna try and compare to see how bad it is in my rig 😅. I don’t have a pedal like the H9 that can intrinsically pan like you did, but I was just curious as to how panning everything left is different than summing to mono. It sounded better and totally different, but it seemed like the signal was summed within the H9 via panning everything left. I may not be aware enough to really know what’s going on, but I’d figured I ask haha Also, in stereo, my chorus pedal leaves the L dry and the R vibrato. So together it’s the lush chorus sound, but if I only wen L it would sound dry and if I only went R it would just be vibrato. In this case would the only option be unplugging the cables?

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

If you can't pan it internally to hard left for the mono stuff, yes, unplugging it or putting a toggle to short the R output jack would be the only way.

@mrcrawford87 3 года назад

This is amazing information!!! I am a first time pedalboard user setting my first pedalboard after running Rack Mount multi-effects processor units for over 30 years and I am now hooked on pedals!! My wife is rolling her eyes watching me react to the sound demonstration in this video... I LOVE IT!! THANK YOU!!!

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Glad it was helpful! Thank for watching Mark!

@thiagodiascosta3582 3 года назад

The idea of hard panning a stereo signal path to only one side to convert it to mono is great! Never thought of it. Also, excelent info on this video, fhanks.

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

For sure, it's definitely the move! Even not doing the hard pan for pedals that don't have that option still is often better sounding that summing.

@eduardoherrera3341 3 года назад

5 years ago I advised my friends about some fx or drives the invert the signal and Will affect stereo fx, but they did not paid attention and told me that Is impossible that an expensive pedal has this problem... I thought That I was wrong, I was Right

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Bam! There you go!

@jonnelson9313 3 года назад

Sorry if you addressed this already (I looked over the comments pretty well). I have a stomp, timeline, and big sky all wired in stereo. If I leave left and right cables into all the inputs but only go into one amp out of the Left, will it include my full signal or will the bigsky only send out half? I play in stereo and mono equally on this rig so I’d love to not have to take out the cables.

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Jon, you'll get the left only...no really half the signal, just what's processed to be on the left side. Ideally you'd create separate presets for mono that give you the best version of the L and R effects. As you can see the Summing, even if you prefer it in these examples, is a compromise just as much as going mono out of a stereo wired rig - I think even better. The devices aren't designed to be summed with external hardware like the summing boxes do.

@ronkopald 2 года назад

After watching this I'm going to have to somehow wire my pedalboard either for mono or stereo use when I record. I usually just go direct in and use an amp sim or external unit. Playing in bands for over twenty years, I've always always run a mono board for band gigs. Stereo sounds great if you can get away with it but usually unless there's a sound guy for the PA it's too much work. There are still lots of small clubs that don't even have PAs for use. Informative video, thanks.

@VertexEffectsInc 2 года назад

Glad you dug the video Ron!

@danielrosadoguitar 2 года назад

After listening to the comparison it's not worth it to even try to sum to mono. I used on-ear headphones, by the way.

@VertexEffectsInc 2 года назад

I agree, sum doesn’t have any advantage

@GartenhausLP 3 года назад

I was looking into mono summing the last few days because I decided not to take the full rig to most places when we can go out again. When I did this in the past I pulled every „right“ in and out on all of my stereo pedals to go mono and plugged them back in when back home. I need to check if the last pedal in my chain can pan but anyway guess I‘ll just be using the Left/mono out from now on. Thank you for this great video!

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Thanks for watching!

@frankcassata 2 года назад

Ok I'm in a bind after watching this. I have the second half of my pedal board wired in stereo, and at the end I have a switcher to send the signal either to my Strymon Iridium or to my amp. I want the iridium to get a stereo signal, and the amp to get a mono signal. Is there a way to achieve this without doing any rewiring in between switching?

@VertexEffectsInc 2 года назад

I’d just use one channel out of the iridium and bypass the iridium when going to the amp.

@frankcassata 2 года назад

@@VertexEffectsInc oh damn that's such a simple solution, I'm laughing at my self for not even thinking about just putting the iridium in bypass, I've even thought why someone would bypass it! So you're basically saying just get rid of the switcher in front of the iridium and go straight to the amp from the bypassed iridium's left and hopefully properly summed output? That would leave the headphone output in stereo which is what I mostly use the iridium for anyway...

@frankcassata 2 года назад

@@VertexEffectsInc thank you kindly for your help!

@robertemacovei 3 года назад

This is gold 🙌🏻🎸

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

I'm so glad you dig it!

@A.j.Rodriquez Год назад

"SO THAT WAS MY CASE" My Speakers were so loud to hear the differences then that took my head off lol

@mmarrington 3 года назад

Thanks for the very useful video. Helped me deal with issues getting outputs from a range of stereo devices into my mainly single channel mixer.

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

You're welcome!

@isaacramsey6145 3 года назад

Some of you won’t believe it but this video combined with a little more research sold me on a JHS summing amp as a practical, second best option for my stereo rig

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

If you like the sound, go for it

@isaacramsey6145 3 года назад

@@VertexEffectsInc it works well enough as a less than perfect option for playing things that will eventually be put in stereo. I keep the box on a practice amp, not the pedal board. Still very much appreciated the knowledge you shared in this video!

@heyryanramsey 2 года назад

I think the real answer here is... NEVER PLAY IN MONO. lol.

@VertexEffectsInc 2 года назад

Or only play in mono.

@heyryanramsey 2 года назад

@@VertexEffectsInc How can you hear what your rig COULD sound like in stereo and then be like, "nah, imma play in mono."?

@Cam_B 2 года назад

@@heyryanramsey it’s all about compromising. If you’re a bedroom player then sure play in stereo all day, however, it’s not so much fun lugging 2 amps to shows let alone micing them. It would be a lot easier if you use a modeler to FOH though, but I would advise against playing in stereo for a crowd. That’s a whole other can of worms…

@joshmolchen1 3 дня назад

4:30 Can you please tell me how a boost or an overdrive that is located before my stereo pedals can change the polarity of only one of my stereo signal paths? Yeah, it can't. It would change the polarity of both at the same time having no effect on anything.

@Beyondthestring 2 года назад

Thanks for the video I am a percussive guitarist and I have a live performance next mounth, my guitar has two different pickups, one for the srtrings and other one for the percussion and this pickups have seperate output jacks. I use Fender ABY pedal to connect both jacks into one single amp, is it gonna affect two much? should I borrow another amp to have two amps?

@VertexEffectsInc 2 года назад

Those are two different source that likely hit a mixer...or should...it's a little different than this.

@JeffHendricks 3 года назад

Most non-programmable stereo pedals do not do output summing if they have two inputs connected. TCE, Boss, Digitech, etc. are almost all like this. Make sure you test your last pedal in the chain to see if it's summing, or just passing L/R through separately. In my case, if I run a ping-pong delay, I just lose one of the delays. I use a small micro-mixer on my board for cases like that.

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Thanks for watching Jeff and for your comment!

@daveeastcott9323 Год назад

Bro you're the guitar tech equivalent of a brainsurgeon. Thanks.

@feedyourspeakers 8 дней назад

Instead of summing out of the board into an amp, what if you had some other electronic instrument with stereo outputs that you want to sum to mono just going into the pedal board? Same difference?

@brianspaid8986 3 года назад

It'd be a huge help when you're doing these types of videos to have a section at the end where you go between the different setups with no breaks between so we can directly compare them to each other. Nice video!

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Are the wav. files not in the description?

@brianspaid8986 3 года назад

@@VertexEffectsInc I'm not seeing them. Where are they linked? Thanks!

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

@@brianspaid8986 I'll double check it, I think they were posted on there so you could listen on soundcloud yourself.

@brianspaid8986 3 года назад

@@VertexEffectsInc Ah, got it. Thanks. Appreciate it!

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

@@brianspaid8986 Sure thing!

@tr_murf4399 3 года назад

This is great. Think I might have inspired this one after asking about a summing mod on the DIY buffer video, to which Mason was kind enough to respond then-and in even more detail now. Ive been putting the final touches on a fully hand-wired board the last six months and I began feeling really guilty about not fully utilizing my big-box Strymons in stereo. They do sound amazing, but dragging two amps to the kinds of places I generally get to play isn’t practical. No matter how great the board is, it’s going to be in mono 98% of the time. Will probably program mono and stereo presets on my midi switcher one day, but I think this board will still be mono when (if?) it has an opportunity to debut.

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

We've had a lot of requests for this over the years. Wanted to show some examples and some easy work-arounds. There can be a place for a mono sum, I just don't prefer it, sonically, to doing it the way I demo'd in the video. There may be some cases where you don't have the option to go into the software to adjust and maybe the mono sum might sound better than Left output only, but it's not been my experience.

@bilalq1 3 года назад

So how does this work if you create a junction box at the end of your board with option for mono plus stereo. I.e. if you use mono in your junction box is it just summing the stereo signal ?

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

That's what this video was demonstrating. That is summing stereo to mono - the exact issue this video is addressing.

@hectorzavala1524 3 года назад

Nice video. I will compare the sounds with my solution. This is what i was doing to get mono sounds: 1. Disconect the R output of the chorus. 2. In the eventide h9, general settings, select pre/post routing (pre is left) 3. The switcher musicomlab EFX LE, in utilities theres is an option to select loop 5 & 6 in mono or stereo return and loop 6 mono send. I change all to mono.

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Hector, 1) that would work, but we're presuming here, like most people that are running a stereo rig, that they don't want to disconnect their pedals each time they run mono versus stereo - this will help solve the polarity/phase issue, but still not resolve the overall issue of the mono sum. 2) If you're still connected with stereo in and out on the H9 the pre/post won't help you and will just mess up the signal path and turn your input B/output B into an effects loop. 3) Yes, but this is still the same issue of a mono summing box, you're doing the sum with outboard gear not native to the stereo pedal - same problem as shown in the video - it's still a mix bus summing amp.

@zachwalker7148 3 года назад

Thanks for using your platform to make this PSA. Feel like anyone with ears and a brain should be able to hear the difference on their own.

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Yes indeed!

@erikstreight2967 2 года назад

Dude THANK YOU! What really frustrates me is that the manufacturers don't give you a mini toggle to internally disconnect the stereo output jack. I use a patch bay for my stereo (and dry) outputs and my cramped pedal board is not set up for physically connecting/disconnecting cables directly from the pedals. Do you think it would be simple enough to have someone modify my pedals with mini toggles? Is that something you would do?

@VertexEffectsInc 2 года назад

I don't know of many manufacturers that do this with the toggles. Some pedals can be done easily others are more complicated regarding the stereo/mono toggle switch. A lot of the digital and DSP stuff is much more difficult.

@Josev-TV 3 года назад

I have pedals that are stereo and some only have 1 input and 1 output (mono) how should I combine the two to get a stereo at the end of the chain?

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

Stereo effects, in particular, delay and reverb, should be at the end of the chain if you plan to use them in stereo. Your mono effects would lead into the stereo effects.

@alexkleiner4131 2 года назад

Great video and a real eye opener for me. Is there a way to pan the output of the H9 to 100% left without having a noticeable effect engaged? For example, if I had 2 stereo pedals engaged before the H9, could I set up a preset on the H9 so that it pans the output 100% left without adding any reverb/delay/etc? Would wet-dry routing and something like a flat EQ preset (Wet L, Dry R) work?

@VertexEffectsInc 2 года назад

Yes, you can do it to the H9 in the app software for the H9 only, it won't work for other stereo pedals before or after it.

@andreaszanker8318 3 года назад

Hi Mason, I have a old Lexicon MPX 1 that I want use mono with a Lehle Parallel Sw II in the FX Loop of my Mesa Stiletto. The MPX manual recommends switching the Input internal to mono L and use a Y- Cable to sum the L+R Output to Mono '' for best sonic'' performance. Now I'm not sure how to connect the thing. Do we have the same case here that you are describing. Do I loose something if I just connect Amp-Send to Left IN and Amp- Return to Left out?

@VertexEffectsInc 3 года назад

You're going to have some compromise, you're basically doing what the summing box is doing but with a cable, or a version of a sum with a Y-cable.