Do tournaments actually measure skill? 

I'd love to hear more about your experiences if you wanna dm me sometime!

@@Radarssbm for sure! Love your content btw. Especially the micro/macro melee stuff. Not a lot of people doing high quality, well-edited analysis vids.

How do I DM you on youtube? Never done that before lol

Eric Guan maybe join my community discord, then DM me there? That’s probably easier, or you could always email me, it’s in the about section but discord probably works better

"There's evidence that lying to or misleading people is actually in their best interest, or at least the best interests of the community. It's for the greater good". Yea yea i know its just video game match-making, but I can't get behind this game design methodology. That's so sneaky.

I hope it’s good ranking system with like a main rank and a division that lets you slowly progress through the rank via divisions then into the next rank. Sort of like rocket league But the matchmaking isn’t as busted as rocket league that pairs you with people much better then you once you start getting good MMR in the game, but that makes me thing if slippi will have mmr

I wonder if you'll be able to wobble or do other exploits.

breadlofe I honestly think they’ll keep all the original exploits that are in the NTSC, updating/fixing/removing stuff would ruin the whole flow unless people want to adapt to this new version instead of sticking with the one they’ve been using for 19 years

@@lanziio1094 but without TOs to monitor the ranked matches, who is going to stop somebody from spamming the IC's Freeze Glitch?

@@breadlofe IC's freeze glitch is actually patched out of slippi already :)

If we don't try to improve the experience of 0-2 players, Melee will never grow imo so I definitely wanna do what I can to help!

I went 0-2 for about 5 months after I first picked up smash 4 a few years ago. Now in ult, im like top 30-40 in my state, and consistently get top 8 at most places I go even those with 50+ entrees. Its weird to see how "fast" your results explode once you get over that initial 0-2 boundary. But its also incredibly exciting the first time you break that 0-2 habit and start actually beating people. But yea, just stick with it, you'll break that barrier eventually. Giving mid level players a rough time means you're already on the verge.

I've been playing since 2013, PM being my main game. So I've def got sticktoitiveness in spades. One big problem is I've never really gotten to practice super often (maybe once or twice a week) and since leaving college I've gotten to practice even less. I also come from a really small scene. We used to drive two hours one way to go to weeklies in the nearest city. (Maining low tiers probably doesn't help either lol.)

@@Twisted_Logic ah ok. Yea, that does make it a bit harder. Well, thats why stuff like slippy is so good. With low latency netplay, you can actually get decent practice without having to travel to locals all the time.

Eragon7 that’s awesome to hear and I’d recommend the same thing, but I also wouldn’t blame people for quitting with that kind of experience too right? Especially considering the fact that Melee is not a new game like Smash 4 or Ultimate, so the skill gap between a completely new player and a very experienced one can be so large they literally can’t hit them. When you play an “experienced” ultimate player, you’re still playing someone who’s played the game for only two years, even if other smash games have improved their fundamentals. I’m not sure I would have kept playing if I wasn’t lucky enough to have friends who play a similar skill level.

The music is all original! Gonna release my next album soon. Glad to hear you enjoyed it!

Fighting sticks and b0xx might be the future for better or worse.

@@nudl4668 This is true I've considered the boxx I already have the know how, it'd just be learning to do tech in a different way. I've been playing Melee for almost 15 years and pm for almost 10. I dont mind the grind xD

I just got 2 for 30 euros each

@@lot8113 What, how?

@@nudl4668 One was sent to me from another town (Monza, I live in Rome, Italy) by a friend of a counsin of mine who's into the whole gaming industry since her boyfriend is a videogame journalist. The other one I bought at a videogame store in Rome. I had to spend 1 hour and a half going to the shop and 1 and a half more to get back home (and another afternoon doing the research and a lot of calls to find the place where I could buy a GameCube controller) but it was worth it.

I'm confused haha, because you wanna see part 2?

RadarSSBM no it should be one video. 6 minute videos like this aren’t gonna be remembered in a couple years, regardless of the points you have imo

Conahjay if the necessary ranking system was implemented now, then it won’t matter in a few years. Splitting it into two videos gets the community talking about it for longer I think

Conahjay the points are still relevant to events 2 years from now though, because they video is about the limitations of tournaments, especially when it comes to the average player. You think we are just gonna no longer have tourneys in two years?

RadarSSBM how does that have anything to do with my comment? I mean that it won’t be relevant because it’s too short, I’d like you to expand on the topic and give your thoughts properly. parts to videos that are 5-10 minutes long are silly af imo

Yeah but even getting 1 set vs someone at a certain level is it's own info on it's own.

getting 1-2 once may not mean you're better, but if you're consistently getting like 1-2 or 2-2 and other people are consistently getting 0-2, then you're probably better. It takes a decent skill level to actually win a set in a real tournament consistently. Pretty much only the top 70-80% of people skill wise can actually manage that. And that sounds like a lot, but 20-30% of people will CONSISTENTLY go 0-2. So getting that consistent 1 set win is actually really hard for people who are just starting out. (Especially when you factor in that most people going to tournaments are actually pretty good, even the 0-2ers. People who are REALLY bad dont really bother with tournaments or will only try them a few times before either getting better or giving up. So even 0-2s at real offline tournaments tend to be decently good at least compared to a more casual audience.)

@@eragon78 true

I would argue that I introduce why we need ranked in this video, and in the second video I will explain what that ranked should look like. As for what does "far better on RU-vid" I don't think that's as easy to understand as you might think. RU-vid is complicated dude. You really can't please everyone though, so if you really don't like it, you don't have to subscribe.

@@Radarssbm That's fair. I really could have made my comment more concise. The only opinion I have personally is that the cliffhanger leaves me less satisfied. But I immediately started watching your other videos instead. Well thanks for considering what I had to say.

@@dddmemaybe Thanks for sharing your opinion! It was a tough call whether or not I should split the video in two, and I don't think I'll ever know what's best but it is what it is haha. Hopefully people still enjoy it!

I've always found that concept interesting, like if Dota judged you not on if your team wins, but on how well you ward/etc. The problem is that it would be insanely hard to balance. Fighting floaties would tank your openings/kill, and apm varies wildly by character choice (my Fox is at least 100 APM higher than my Sheik).

To be fair, if you explained to the TOs who you were and that you changed your tag, they probably would have realized and seeded you higher. Usually in cases like this, the TOs are just unaware that someone changed their tag, and a clarification is all that's needed.

@@eragon78 Even if that were the case I still had a clean 0-2 record (impressive, I know) and like the video stated the skill level of all the players that went 0-2 can vary greatly, but technically speaking all of those players are still kinda "lumped" together. Even if I explained my situation I'm doubtful i would have been seeded higher as my record was still technically 0-2.

I think one system that might be kind of nice is like a ranking system somewhat sorta like League (with stuff like Silver, Gold, Plat, Diamond, etc), but at every major landmark, you cant drop down. So if you get to Gold rank, even If you lose a bunch, you're still gold rank. Youll drop to the very very bottom of gold rank if you keep losing, but youll always at least be gold rank at a minimum. And then you throw in ranking resets after a certain period of time. Maybe like every 3-6 months the rankings reset and everyone has to climb up again. I think a system like this would allow players to grind hard to achieve new higher ranks, but also have the security that you can only fall so far if you keep losing. And itll make pushing for that new rank much more rewarding and youll feel that its always in reach. And it will avoid the issue of people just flat out not playing because their scared of their rank dropping. But then the system resets every so often so that anybody stuck at a rank higher than their skill level will eventually get weeded back down. And then you can see if the players are consistent based on how often they can effectively achieve each rank.

Pedro Braga This may be controversial, but I recommend watching the video first before weighing in lololol

I was just trying to be blunt in a funny way, I still love your videos and loved this one as well! As of the question in the title, the answer is still yes, it's just a matter of how exactly do they measure skill...

@@pedrobraga5153 I think to me the answer is "yes at the top level, reasonably well...but at the low level...still yes...but not effectively at all" Also glad to hear you liked the video!

DeanWhipper I kind of disagree...I think matchups absolutely do matter and lack of knowledge can hurt you, but I also think that a lot of the best characters do kind of combo in very similar ways, and I wouldn’t say being unfamiliar is enough for you to get 4 stocked. Unless the matchup you’re not familiar with is from a really good character like Puff. I remember when I just started the game, I would play MewTwo, Mario, etc in bracket...and it was janky for sure, but it’s not like the lack of knowledge made me lose. It’s more that it made it harder to abuse the weaknesses that those characters have. Plus, if you’re good, you will eventually learn how to play against those characters too, and the characters aren’t so unique that it takes much time to learn. Meanwhile, if a player is not knowledgeable how to play vs Marth/Fox/Falco/Sheik/Falcon...that’s on them imo. Those characters are everywhere

@@Radarssbm I agree, but I'm sure we've all seen what I'm talking about. A mid level Pikachu is going to wreck you even if you're better than him but have no experience with the matchup. I guess my point is, matchup knowledge is the true "skill" IE knowing what you can and can't do in each matchup, knowing what options are safe etc.

DeanWhipper Yeah I still don’t totally agree, but that’s because I’ve played characters where the game plans are very similar, so I really don’t think the lack of knowledge is as applicable. As falco, comboing Pikachu is similar to comboing other floaties, and you just follow the “try not to get gimped/grabbed” game plan. As puff, you can kind of safely space back air against any character you’re unfamiliar with and do OK lol. I also find sheik is like this too. You can kind of always combo with her tools in a similar way, so you just gotta try to get grabs, space fair/bair...f-tilt in neutral..dash attack etc. I can see Marth and Fox being more vulnerable to this problem though? Especially if the matchup is particularly good for the character you’re facing (Marth vs Pikachu I can see being a nightmare to not have experience with)

Unclepunch training pack

@@A432Hz thx

What do you mean “does all this vanish?” A lot of the developments made were separate from Slippi. I also don’t know why you’re saying “if/when Slippi goes down.” I don’t think it’s a “when” at all. Edit: Reading it more thoroughly, you mention that you’re aware the server is the only closed source component, but what other server side features are you expecting?

@@Radarssbm Thanks for replying. The matchmaking is server side, ranked will be server side, and I'm guessing the spectating features will have server side components as well. I do see Slippi becoming more and more of a 'platform' as time goes on (why else would they keep the source code closed?), increasing the risk involved with Nintendo pursuing or simply posturing legal action. Obviously this is a legal grey area, but I'm skeptical that what the law says matters much when it's a massive corporation versus an independent team. Now I'm sure these features can be reverse engineered based on the client side modifications with time and expertise, but I still believe the choice to go with a closed source/centralized model over an open source/federated model was an incorrect one with unnecessary risk. Melee as we know it is built on compounded community effort, and I wince a bit when I see things going in what I perceive to be a dangerous direction. Edit: Apologies for coming off as a debbie downer here or putting down the Slippi team's work. I'm super passionate about game modding and I want to see it thrive, and it pains me to see good things get shut down over legal bullshit when the technology exists to build more resilient communities. There's just no way the Slippi team is immune from becoming a target, especially when they're involved with streams of the game that have UCF, skins, 16:9, name tags, "Delay: 2f", etc and calling it "Super Smash Bros. Melee" on Twitch (a for-profit platform). Even outside of Slippi, there's a bunch of modding communities that are kinda/sorta committing copyright infringement while hinging on a single clearnet website, subreddit, or server. I just think we could do better.

Miles Peebles I get where you’re coming from for sure. Although I also can see why there’s benefits to having this system be run by people who can financially handle the costs required to run the servers etc too. I think some of your fears are justified but ultimately we just gotta hope for the best at this point

GenericAlias no lol, I made it. People are comparing the styles and I get the comparison but its just “melee characters doing stuff” Everything on my channel is made by me including the music

@@Radarssbm Oh cool, just wondering because it looks so similar to an AsumSaus thumbnail (though a lot of thumnails look like that, just as you said). It’s a cool thumbnail, though :)

GenericAlias thanks dude! Definitely trying to up my thumbnail game for sure! I’m not trying to rip off AsumSaus in any way, but I imagine some of the similarities come from the fact that we would be using similar graphical assets. There’s readily available HD renders of Fox online, but way less examples of say, Sheik. So that’s why I’ve been using Fox a lot, and I imagine AsumSaus is doing the same thing

fmakofmako it’s not and we will cover why it’s not Hahahaha

Michael Monreal uncle punch training mode

Kinda better in some ways because we get to decide how it goes and it’s transparent!

Gonna work hard to get part 2 out ASAP! Was originally going to be one video, but for a variety of reasons, I decided to separate them. I think the pacing works better this way, and it allows me to release the content much earlier than if I made one long 15-20 minute video!

So far I would say this is the closest to what the video is going to explain! Either way I think the video will hopefully be interesting

Pretty sure it's "Intro Bold" and Cambria

I get where you're coming from, but having the attitude that tournaments are only for experienced players is a bad idea, and hurts the growth of the scene. Also, even if that's the case, you literally have to have someone who goes 0-2 in the tournament, it's how they're designed. I think in a strong region it's very possible, and realistically quite likely, to go 0-2 despite being "average" in skill.

@@Radarssbm yes I agree I dont think there only for strong players and I know there has to be losers, i guess I'm just surprised because I'm a try hard but i know theres boys out there who 0-2 and still have a great time with there friends at the event all weekend. Personally I would just never be able to accept an 0-2 performance and would either demand better from myself or off myself lul

fair point. I agree that I left these formats out, but to be fair double elim is the most common format. Plus, I think even in alt formats, which I’ve played several times, they’re only a slightly better experience, and they have their own drawbacks. It’s easy to say “playing 2 sets is not a good assessment of skill” but I’m not really convinced by the argument of “what if they played 5 sets?” In a RR bracket for example. Of course that’s going to be more data, but when you consider the fact that a lot of ranked ladders require 5-10 games minimum just to have a vague idea of your skill, it kind of still seems like a pretty bad alternative. My point was primarily to speak about how this is a problem, especially when you compare Melee to other esports, that have proper ranked ladders. When I do that, a tournament that runs alt formats still feels like a poor substitute. I think I could have made an entire separate video on what kind of formats a TO should run in order to make a tourney better for newer players, and maybe I will some day!

Joey Keilholz the video is quiet?? Or the voice over is