Do you need a Petty Knife? - Misono UX10 Petty Knife Review 

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I think Misono is extremely overpriced . Not just overpriced , extremely overpriced.

@@dimmacommunication I'll take your word for it.

@@rexseven6907 Looks like it's quality made ,don't get me wrong. But damn 200$ for the 8inch ? A knife in german/sweedish steel should cost 70-100$ max .

@@dimmacommunication yup, it is what it is. That is why I said for home cooks it is diminishing returns. You are better of with a paring knife like the Victorinox over the Misono Petty UX10 for home use. As for restaurant use, the Misono UX10 checks every single box that I look for. Comfort, weight, balance, intended usage, etc. But those benefits come at a very premium price point and is only really beneficial for those that work in a restaurant and have to do small task day in and day out for a few hours a day. For example, 40 avocados a day need to be prepped at work the Misono UX10 is worth the price in that scenario. At home, you slice one avocado, and you are better off with a cheap paring knife from Victorinox for example. It can do the same, sure it is not as comfortable as the UX10 Petty, but does comfort really matter if you just need to slice one avocado in like twice a week? the reason for using a Paring knife in this scenario is because, it is shorter so better for home use for things like peeling an apple, pear, orange, etc. (far more comfortable off the cutting board vs a Petty in general). A Petty is great for the cutting board slicing task but how often do you slice small produce where you need a Petty? Most of the time a Santoku will do the job and if not use a paring knife as you probably won't be prepping 40 avocados a day for home use. TLDR: Misono UX10 Petty is totally worth the money in my case if used at work (for example 40 avocados a day, but I will use a paring knife to open the avocado and use the Petty for thin slices for dragon rolls where I still need a cutting board). At home, definitely overpriced as explained in the example above. Diminishing returns, you pay an extreme premium for something that does not benefit the home cooks and you be better off with a cheap Petty or just a paring/fruit knife.

@@chefpanko 100% , I really like your channel cause you analize these caracteristics . People only think about quality, yeah sure ,but do you need to pay such amount for cooking once a day ? I have a cheap paring knife ( like you suggested )since I use it like once a week.

I'm not sure if I'm going to order a UX10 24cm Gyuto or not (I want one but they are expensive, very premium-priced). But currently sticking to the 440C version as my go-to knife.

@@chefpanko The 440c misono? I saw it online , is it that good? Honestly If I'm gonna buy a knife next I'm gonna buy it X50 steel ( standard german 57-58 hrc ) or 14c28n as you suggested long time ago.

@@dimmacommunication The only thing is the price of the Misono and for that price, I did not expect the slight protrusion on the handle where the cheapest version (handmade series) did not have the problem (UX10 and 440C had the problem). The reason for sticking to the 440C is mainly because of the length (270mm) and working in a restaurant in my scenario, a longer knife is my preferable size to do most of my work combined with a smaller petty and a paring knife. (at home I will just go for my Victorinox Paring knife over the Misono UX10 Petty). What Misono does great is in the comfort factor and the 70/30 is benefiting me more since I mainly slice softer produce. But when it comes to thick root vegetables I prefer a 50/50 bevel over the 70/30 from Misono. Price-wise expensive, comfort-wise great however as I have a large hand size the size of the 8inch versions will not benefit me so my minimal go to length for comfort is the 24cm version as the minimum length since the handle is thicker/longer. The balance point is where I want my knives to be on the Misono. 24cm from unknown brands is hard to find and 27cm+ is even harder to get on unknown brands let alone the heat treatment on them. Long story short, price-wise very premium for what you get, there are better value options. From my perspective, it is hard to get a knife with 27cm that fit my needs in a restaurant scenario (options are limited for me). Hence why the 440C 27cm Gyuto is currently my go-to knife in a restaurant setting (at home the 27cm is too long for me and I rather get a 24cm which is why I'm thinking about a 24cm UX10). If it was priced lower like the 440C 240mm for around 150/170 euros I would recommend it. As of right now, it sits around 230 euros for the 240mm 440C version.

@@chefpanko 230 ? damn... You could just get a custom one for 400 to cut the story short ... I mean 230 is already ultra premium pricing , might as well go all in and spend 400 😁💪

@@dimmacommunication yeah European prices are expensive I directly imported mine. It is even cheaper to import and pay import tax than buying from a European store.

They look very interesting! Very uniquely shaped! Especially the shape and blade profile is looking very promising.

I have not seen them in person but looking at the AH website the knives look very cheaply made. I'm not a fan of the bolster and the reference price is ridiculous as far as I can see. 55 euro for a chef/santoku? Very ridiculous reference price from what I can see. The price with the stamps is reasonably priced. So looking at the pictures these are my speculations: - Not a fan of the full-bolster - steel-type is probably one of the cheapest stainless steel - Rockwell hardness is probably 54/55 (not a good edge retention needs to be sharpened more often) - steel-type most likely an off-brand ''cr'' which is cheaper than German steel types like the 1.4116 - Handle probably plastic -While it is an Italian-sounding name/brand, it does not give me the luxurious feel of an ''Italian'' name/brand. - most likely mass-produced in China - reference price is rediculous - price with 25 stamps is reasonable (5.99 for a Santoku/Chef's knife is fairly priced if you don't mind spending 25 stamps). Will I personally buy it? No. I would probably spend my stamps on the wooden serving board but with the price of 9.99, I'm pretty sure I can get a similar-looking board at Xenos for cheaper. Not a fan of the current offerings.

@@chefpanko Thanks for your take, I was suspicious as well but hearing it from you is a great help. Think I'll just pickup the cutting board when my cards full or possibly gift the points to someone else :) A shame though since Ive had some decent chef knives from german super markets for 10-15€ with x50crmov15.

@@bumnail you can always get them and resell them on Marktplaats :P The knives are reasonably priced with the stamps. (Just the reference price is ridiculous). x50crmov15 is not bad steel it just depends on who is heat treating that type of steel and what they add to make it better (and by not specifying the hardness from the manufacturer you can assume a Rockwell below 56). The current offerings are not that great, the pots and pans back then were a good deal. (reference price is still ridiculous for the pots and pans but I think you saved like 5 euros vs ordering without stamps from other online shops). I think they were called Vivo/Villroy or something (I have the soup pan). Good quality for the price with the stamps. And the only other thing I save is when they have the Efteling saving cards (great for the kids or giving the card away to family/friends with kids etc).

@@chefpanko True, always an option or to bring on holiday to spare myself sharpening knives in rental apartments 😂 Yeah I have some of the pans they've been holding up alright. 🤞 The next deal is a decent one again😁

Good question, 70/30 has the exact same basic as 50/50. The only thing you should change is to sharpen the steeper (lower angle) side first. Because if you sharpen the higher angle first you will overburr the edge. So let's say one side is sharpened at 20 degrees and the other side 12 degrees, then I suggest starting to form a burr on the 12 degrees side first. once you have that established just do the exact same as with 50/50 degrees ie; try to get a consistent angle etc. Hope that this helps.

@chefpanko I am going to order this knife what angle do you recommend to sharpen it. Thanks

@@dasniper282 ​ the same angle as the knife comes with, this can fluctuate slightly per knife as they are hand-sharpened. But factory angles are easiest to maintain, so a simple maintenance session is enough if you plan in a maintenance session regularly when you feel like it can use some touch-up. You can put the knife flat on a cutting board and slowly lift it up until it bites into the cutting board, lower it down slightly and there is your angle. Do that for each side and you will have a guideline of how high or low the knife should be when you trace the factory angle. Don't worry too much about the angle as with all manual hand sharpening you will always fluctuate since we are humans and not a machine. Just try to be as consistent as possible.

@@dasniper282 For some basic guidelines you can visit my website: www.chefpanko.com/maintenance-sharpening/ (added it in a separate comment since YT sometimes deletes comments with links). The guideline is for 50/50 bevel but most of it can apply for 70/30 or 30/70 etc since the basic always stays the same.

The following information can be found in the video: Weight in grams: 1:37 Spine thickness: 1:27 Choil Shot: 0:34 more clear choil shot: 1:21 Thank you for the suggestions if you have any feedback on improving more in future videos I would love to try and incorporate it. Thanks :)

@@chefpanko Wow, I'm not sure how I missed that! Thanks for highlighting those! My apologies! Would you say that choil is a bit thicker in profile compared to other 130mm Japanese style petty/utility knives? I'm considering buying the 150mm version off of Amazon, and I'm really looking for something that's super thin.

@@theredbar-cross8515 In terms of the Choil taper it can be thicker than other 130mm Japanese-style knives. (this differs from brands and blacksmiths). Kotetsu knives have a very nice thin aggressive choil taper while having a thicker spine (it's thinner behind the cutting edge). But the Misono's petty is fairly thin especially if you compare the spine thickness to other petty's. The distal taper (heel to front) is nicely done on the Misono's. 70/30 bevel is questionable, I like it on softer produce where it shines and you will feel the noticeable smoother cutting performance. However, when I go for denser produce like carrots, I feel like the 70/30 bevel is not adding much and I even prefer a 50/50 bevel for those tasks over the 70/30. (but since this is a 130mm Petty I will keep the 70/30 as I will mainly do less dense food with it but this 70/30 experience I noticed was more with the Gyuto's where I actually preferred a 50/50 bevel). The Gyuto's I have tested from Misono are the Handmade, 440, and High Carbon versions. In short 70/30 bevel is great for soft less dense produce. If you plan to do more denser food you might consider regrinding the cutting edge with a 50/50 bevel.

@@chefpanko That's very insightful, thanks for that info! I will take a look at the Kotetsu. I have both the 150mm Petty and 180mm gyuto from Misono on the way. I rarely need to cut dense foods, so it should be fine. I will be curious to see if I can even feel a difference with the bevel. Looking forward to your next video!

It will be a long answer so sorry for not having a short answer as it is quite complex to explain and my English is not the best (so hopefully I explained it correctly). Apart from hardness the steel structure if it has something more pure vs other added properties can be easier to sharpen and can take a sharper edge. When you add certain properties the steel structure changes into smaller or bigger carbides and some methods can reduce the spread or make the spread more evenly. The smaller the steel carbides the easier it is to sharpen or the better it can take a sharper edge. But most of the time the harder the knife gets, you need better tools to sharpen the knife. In some cases, it may be hardened too hard where normal soaking stones barely have any effect on it and only diamond-coated ones can change the structure. How do you get smaller carbides? well depends on the steel and how the knife is forged. While many say that you need to hammer a knife over and over again to get smaller finer steel carbides and better spread this is not true. There are now multiple methods and new advanced methods to achieve similar results. Therefore handmade and hammered knives vs mass produced knives have less of an advantage gap. As with modern steel, manufacturers can pre-heat and roll the steel over and over again creating better and more consistent carbides vs manual hammering in a more controlled environment without the need to have the craftsmen's experience. (but this introduces a higher order price which is not what many want when they hear of mass-produced knives). Other methods are different steel types. With the new development of powdered steel (ZDP189, 14Cr14V3MoNb), you can get a far smaller and finer carbide with an even spread. (those steel are made and developed by steel manufacturers as they are not sitting still which is an exciting advancement that will benefit both craftsmen and mass production manufacturers). Another new methods are to use a coreless knife and only Damascus layers, this will increase the knife's ductility, and due to the multiple layers stacked on each other and rolled over and over again, you get a smaller spread and finer carbides. Which not only helps in ease of sharpening but also increases the cutting performance. (the same method is used by press rolling multiple steels on each other over and over again to create smaller carbides but also to create damascus patterns this results in not only a smaller carbide but also a better sharpness/ease of sharpening). Despite holding the same Rockwell this method will be better than a single core VG10 vs 2 types of steel like: VG10 and VG2 rolled and alternating on each other over and over creating a coreless knife (this also means edge-to-spine Damascus pattern and no need for a cladding since the ductility will be increased with this method).

Good question, I would not worry too much about the bevel face one of the reasons is that the exact angle in degrees per face will differ since they are sharpened by hand and that the 70/30 or 80/20 is just a guidance of the bevel faces. The bevel ratio is an indication of how much of the bevel face is added on each side (due to human sharpening and not machine sharpening the angle will vary hence why I said use the bevel as an indication). If we use the 10/15 degrees example it would mean that if we go by exact numbers the degrees difference is not exact and the exact angles should be the ones explained below: The wider face (70%) would have a 7.5 degree angle. The narrower face (30%) would have a 17.5 degree angle. Making a total of 25 Degrees. 70/30 = One side has a bevel width of 70% of the total bevel and the other side is 30% of the total bevel. So let's say we want a total level of 40 degrees we split it by the 70/30 bevel face it would be: A+B = 40 degrees A: The wider face (70%) would have a 28 degree angle. B: The narrower face (30%) would have a 12 degree angle. We have to use A+B = 40 degrees A = 0.7 x 40 (wider face) B = 0.3 x 40 (narrower face). A= 28 Degrees B = 12 Degrees With a 50/50 bevel, both sides are even so each side can have 10/10 degrees or 25/25 degrees, etc which will be 50% of each side. Hope that this explains it. So if we use an 80/20 bevel with a total angle of 40 degrees it would be: 80% = 32 Degrees 20% - 8 Degrees The intent of those specific bevels matters more than the exact angle. What knife is it and what do you plan to use it for etc. As explained most knives are hand-finished with sharpening this means that there will always be human errors as we are not machines (unless you use tools that can mimic the exact angles ie, angle-guided sharpeners). Which side you want 70/30 or 30/70 depends on if you are left or right-handed however Misono primarily makes it for right-handed users and left-handed conversion or order can be done through a special request which costs more. This has all to do with which side you cut your food for a right-handed person they start cutting at the right side depending on what they cut. (portion sizing etc). So for an onion for example most will start splitting in the middle (50/50 bevel would be ideal). Once the onion has been split you will julienne from right to left. So the lower angled face will help in pushing the produce away while cutting assisting in the cutting motion making the knife feel sharper. (just like an electric bicycle with a paddling assist). The lower angled side, can reduce friction and sticking, allowing for smoother cutting motions, especially with certain types of food and prep work. (benefits differ per food and purpose of the cut) For most users, 50/50 bevel is the best option unless they work in a restaurant where they have one specific task/cut as prep work at the prepping station. Sorry for the long text don't know how to explain it otherwise. Hope this clears things up.

At home depends on what you plan to do with it, a Petty usually does not have the knuckle clearance but is also used for a different task. Regarding multi-purpose home use, I would go for a Santoku or Bunka or just a normal Gyuto. The profile on the Miosno Gyuto's is pretty straight (heel area) and less curvy. Which gives you a good all-around cutting style like push-forward, pull-back cutting, chopping, and rocking. But due to the straighter profile not great for mincing tasks. The added tip on the Gyuto's adds versatility it is easier to trim off excess fat and due to the tip, you can easier puncture a hole in a fish belly. A petty can be good for multi-purposes at home but is not ideal. Most home tasks can be done with a simple cheap paring knife of 100mm. Not only can you do most home-cutting tasks with it like a petty, but it is also even better for things off the cutting board like peeling off an apple skin, etc. So the home setup is usually one multi-purpose knife and a paring knife as those 2 will do pretty much the majority of the task in the kitchen besides that a scissor, or a peeler (a peeler can even be replaced with a paring knife but a scissor is just great to have in the kitchen). That's pretty much what I need at home. Back in the day, a can opener was very popular here (depending on what country you are from or what kind of can you buy), most cans nowadays have an easy peel-off solution so no can openers are needed. In terms of a petty, I would say 150mm is a good option. But at home, I rather use a few cheaper Victorinox paring knives that are laying around as they are just so versatile and can do pretty much everything that a petty can. At work, it is a different story as we often need to do the same task for 30+ minutes vs 1/2 min of cutting task at home (so getting an appropriate knife for the cutting task is more important and beneficial for those that work in a restaurant and need to do the repetitive cutting task for hours).

@@chefpanko Thank you

Not sure what type they use exactly since they want to keep it a secret but on the old models they use Swedish Steel which they now replaced with EU steel. But according to one manufacturer, the lead-time outside Europe from the Swedish steel is approx 1+ year (harder to get an order in with a shorter lead time for brands that want to use some Swedish steel). But I like the grind of 70/30 on the cutting edge. I like it more on softer produce where it shines the best. Also tested the 440C, Handmade series, and the EU Carbon Steel (formerly Swedish Carbon Steel) from Misono. To my surprise pretty much all the series have the same slight protrusion on the handle except for their cheapest version the Handmade series.

@@chefpanko Yeah swedish steel is probably limited on supply, that's why everybody uses european steel. Now french steel got a very nice amount of supply with NitroB steel. French and Italian knifemakers are using nitroB as a substitute for X50 ( Wüstof standard steel ) as It is cheap and better too 😜

​@@dimmacommunication haha more steel to experiment with!! But exciting to see more brands going for the popular pocket knife steel and new steel types. I asked some manufacturers why they are not directly using the pocket knife steel, the reasons were, that steel recognition is not popular and it is harder for them to advertise to the non-knife enthusiast (and currently long lead time on some steel types). And it is not so easy to transition to a new steel type, as it requires some R&D to get the correct heat treatment, and the longer the knife the harder it gets to get a consistent heat treatment. Since the money is more within the mass market (home cooks). Very fascinating talks with the brands/blacksmiths/manufacturers.

@@chefpanko Yes very complicated to justify increase in price for the home user. For example Zwilling markets AEB-L as FC61 ( 😂 ) , but It has a cool name I stuck with AEB-L 1st time I read it.

@@dimmacommunication yeah, rebranding certain steel, they usually have to add a certain mixture to be able to use a certain rebranded name. However, most manufacturers don't rebrand the name and already are adding their own added mixture with the core component.

Thank You :)

@@chefpanko how are you doing?

@@g-sunl ​ l I'm doing good you? thanks for asking.

I'm :P