The Crowded Room has been one of the best shows i’ve seen in a while, Tom Holland really showed off his skill-set, because his acting is phenomenal throughout.
I hope he is okay still, I heard a few actors do roles when seem bit insane or crazy on personality but it didn't make it easy for them to recover after
One thing I think many people seem to forget about this show is that due to it being based in the 1970s a lot of the findings or ideas about the disorder aren’t as known or up to date as they would be today. So when we critique the show we are critiquing it from our current knowledge of the disorder even tho the characters in the show wouldn’t have all the knowledge that we have on the issue.
This show has actually helped me a bit with my Avoidant Personality Disorder. It showing Danny telling himself to face his problems or actions and him doing it multiple times in the series. I’ve even started to often tell myself to ‘Face the Music’ whenever there’s something stressful that I need to get past.
I'm glad that you said that dissociation is quite common. People often miss that, people in comments of videos - or all the way even professional people! Is it symptom of something else, just fleeing stress reaction or something bigger - or is it dissociative disorder? Personally been diagnosed as it being disorder - only when I learned that just dissociation could be so common, I now understand that some professionals (that I mostly just met) pretty much started to argue with me having this diagnosis. While some others see it as a bit too important diagnosis and bigger problem than it actually is. I get the both sides of the argument now, because it's hard line to find when it's really a disorder and I have learn how super common dissociative symptoms are IN EVERYTHING.
In 6th grade, my sister started suffering from chronic stomach aches with no discernible cause. So eventually she was sent to a child psychologist and it turned out she was stressed out going to school due to bullying.
Tangent: The story of the insanity defense in the U.S. is really interesting and quite sad. Until around the 1970s, the M'Naghten test-which, as everyone here knows, was developed in the mid 19th century, when society's knowledge about mental illness and capacity was at its very peak-was dominant. By 1980, most states and the federal government had adopted the Model Penal Code test, which was mostly a softer, combined version of the M'Naghten test and irresistible-impulse test, but it notably put the burden on the government to establish sanity beyond reasonable doubt. Then, after John Hinckley shot Reagan, amongst other persons, and was found NGRI, EVERYTHING changed. Congress forced the M'Naghten test on federal trials, and only a dozen or so states kept the MPC test. Meanwhile, Hinckley-except for the fact that he was kept in extremely severe restrictions far longer than his doctors said was necessary-ironically became a NGRI success story. He was released from hospital on 2016 and released from all conditions in 2021. He currently uploads songs to his RU-vid channel.
I have chronic dissociation in terms of dpdr, stemming from childhood trauma. It often feels MORE isolating when people talk about dissociation, because they talk about DID, or the stress of adult onset dpdr, or whatever, as if it were the universal experience, since those things don’t reflect my experience at all. When you talk about it, in general you don’t inspire those “feelings” of isolation, because you are careful to acknowledge other experiences. But today, it was really nice to hear the actress talk about things that DO apply to my experience. I hope a really great show about lifelong dpdr is made, and you talk about the struggles that can come from that, like trying to make life worth living when you don’t feel like you exist, because I know you’ll do an excellent job. Meanwhile, I truly appreciate your sensitivity and nuanced approach to all the things, psychologically speaking.
Depersonalization Derealization. Diagnostically there are “these” labels, descriptively there are “those” labels, and it can be useful to understand “those” labels when looking for online support and resources, so that’s how I’ll answer. You already seem to understand that we all dissociate, which is good. It can make it complicated to tell if your experience varies, since when you google resources it can be hard to specify. I don’t know if you “dissociate more” because you detach from feeling, or the world seems unreal, etc, which two obviously have different possible causes and complications. If it bothers you even to the extent of “does this help me understand myself” then google is your friend. Myself, it is a big complication, but unlike the way most online resources and communities are designed to help with. Depersonalization loosely is feeling like you aren’t real. For me, I have the watching myself in third person memories, the lack of connection to emotions, and the existential angst of not feeling like I exist. Derealization loosely is the world that isn’t you doesn’t feel real. For me I have difficulty connecting with others, remembering and/or caring about things, stuff like that. For me, there’s a lot of childhood trauma involved, but neurodivergence may play a part. In the past I’ve for example sought community but found it difficult because people who felt things “normally” and then experience a “new” fog or distance from their ability to feel or connect etc, that’s scary and hard, and community exists for that, and it’s hard to weed out the difference in searching to find something helpful to me. And, for many many years, there were some benefits to derealization, in that everything was a game (so I knew “what to do” like I was an experienced player) or a movie (which is kinda fun and beautiful, I’ve literally been struck by the feeling of excellent casting for extras in a scene, lol). I also mostly don’t feel my body, which is super useful because I have chronic pain and health issues. Most things aren’t a disorder unless they feel like one to you. But even if you decide your dissociation doesn’t interfere in your quality of life, it’s worth exploring to understand yourself better. Dpdr is a fairly specific term in a field of ambiguity term wise, so a good place to start. I hope that was helpful, and one way or another I’ll respond to more questions if you have them. Not an expert, just supportive.
Thanks, I definitely feel like I understand it better now. For me, I think it’s more like I do it too much? Like, I remember day dreaming a lot when I was younger, and probably started doing it to cope with things. Now I’ll often get pulled into them without even knowing it. When it happens, I’ll usually lose from a few minutes to a few hours.(On the bright side, it makes long car rides easier.) And, It definitely often feel like I’m not fully there, like halfway dissociation? It can make talking to people pretty difficult and driving a bit dangerous. I can’t remember the last time I’ve driven without dissociating at all. Idk if there’s a name for all that. Excessive daydreaming?
I asked Dr Google “What is it called when someone spaces out frequently” and got the reply that “spacing out” is called “zoning out or spacing out”. Oh, how you’ve failed me google.. There’s def a term I’ve heard before but don’t know. My association with what you’re describing is anxiety or adhd, as a starting place. Sounds like in addition to frequency, timing is an issue. There are definitely behavioral things you can do to maybe help while driving for a start, which you can find online or via therapy or cognitive behavioral therapy or whatever. Myself, I know dissociation can be elevated for me by anxiety, but when I’m dissociating I’m less anxious about it lol, so I have had concerns about driving. My issues there are more attachment to the moment than focus related, but maybe the approach it TOOK SOMEONE ELSE TO POINT OUT to me will help you. (Real “duh” moment for me, lol.) The suggestion was “when you notice you are extra dissociated while driving, do an anxiety reducing thing.” So, if I notice I’m not really present and it’s affecting reaction time or I’m not concerned about what should be concerning in the moment (driving in the dark for work those moments do happen), I’ll do a breathing exercise, or a modified emdr (eye movement desensitization and reprocessing, although not always involving eye moment so not the best name) technique my therapist and I came up with. I have chronic significant anxiety, so I already have my go to techniques, but techniques for reducing anxiety are everywhere, just play around to find what works for you. It’s worth a try at least, to address this urgent manifestation of the issue. Another term maybe helpful for the search bar is “grounding technique”. Those don’t super work for me but they are easy and work great for a lot of people.
Also, not halfway dissociation, actually dissociation; the way the term means so many things makes understanding difficult, but each facet is wholly valid and completely dissociation. And, while the nuance of tricks to make communication easier with the public depends on the nuance of you, with close friends you can maybe just let them know what’s up. I had a friend who had a rule, she’ll totally be a good listener and wants to, but you’ve got to tell her that’s called for at the moment cuz she won’t notice. Worked great. So if like you’re having difficulty in conversation, maybe say “I’m having difficulty, do this and it will help.” Like, they could re-get your attention if they notice a drift, or something. The trick is to understand your needs as well as limitations, and for the record, guilt about it (which you haven’t expressed, just saying) doesn’t help, it just gets in the way. Because our brains are our brains, yo. For me, conversation is “easy”, because faced with a person, it’s way easier to step outside my role as a human and into the role of “cashier” or “friend saying the right thing” or “customer” or whatever. My problem is remembering that I have needs and opinions and whatnot.
@@limner123 This was very helpful, thanks. I'll try grounding and breathing exercises. And you're definitely right about needing to understand my needs and limitations, and I really should let people know when I start to dissociate. I often try to pretend I never zoned out when I come back, but my sister has definitely picked up on it so I've started to be more honest with her about it. I try not to feel guilty about it when I dissociate in a conversation. Though, since I often avoid talking to people all together,(which is a whole other problem lol) I spend a lot of time alone. The problem that comes up the most is probably how much time I tend to lose in a day. The different techniques might help with that. Thanks again for replying. :)
what you call the core personality is called the host, it is the alter that is out most of the time. this alter can remain unaware of the system for years because its the best way to live a "normal" life and keep everyone save
I have ADHD and probably ASD and I experience disassociation in clubs when the music is loud and there's a lot of talking. The sound gets really muffled, like I'm underwater and I sort of get this experience where I'm listening to myself. It's strange but also comforting. I was just telling my husband about it and then you said it's way more common then people think. I think Rya is a psychologist. I don't know what the law is in the US. She was definitely academic/research but then eventually goes into clinical work.
I haven't watched the show except through your videos. I definitely have enjoyed your insights! It sounds like this series may have done a decent job of capturing at least one person's DID experience. Everyone's is so unique anyways - no media could capture all of them.
I’d love to see more videos of this show! The last third of this show is superb, and I think it would be really interesting to hear your thoughts about it!
re stomach aches at the start, we did almost miss my appendicitis because I was experiencing anxiety induced stomach aches to a severity and frequency that I almost just didn't ask to go to the doctor. I was out of sick days and my mom told me I could either go to the hospital, or go to school. I almost went to school, it was absolutely not the worst abdominal pain i'd ever had. a part of the reason my mom didn't just tell me i had to go was a decade and a half earlier my brother had his burst during P.E. at school and he came home jaundiced.
Similar story - we were scarily delayed calling medical help for one of my friends because they insisted it was a panic attack. A good reminder that even if it's statistically more likely to be the less fatal of two causes, it's always best to treat health crisis moments as though it's worst case scenario. Good on your mum for not insisting your stomach was psychosomatic and not pushing you to go to school
Genuine curious question: In my understanding, DID is formed due to an inability of the mind to completely integrate into one identity due to dissociative barriers and generally occurs before a ‘complete’ identity is formed, therefore there isn’t a ‘core’ identity just a system of alters with varying levels of awareness and interaction with the body’s external environment. Why do you refer to Danny as the ‘core’ identity versus another term such as ‘host’? Note: I haven’t seen the show.
Seconding this question. If I have my facts straight, it's the Theory of Structural Dissociation that suggests there is no Core identity, it is rather more like puzzle pieces that never came together in the first place. In my experience, this makes more sense. There being a Core personality sounds to me like an idea coming from a outside observer's view of a DID system. Where there's the "original person" and all the other alters are "the disorder." Some systems may identify with this and that's okay, but I don't see it often. People in the DID community these days often don't refer to a core, but to a host--the alter who most commonly presents to the outside world. Host is a role that can be passed from one alter to another, and the host is not designated as more integral or more central to the system's personhood. In fact, other alters might be insulted at the idea that they are less important than the one deemed to be the "core" (Hosting is different from Fronting, by the way. An alter being in Front simply means they are in control of the body. A host is an alter who is commonly in front over a period of time, especially when the system is interacting with other people)
I technically have a DID diagnosis - although I'm not sure it's completely accurate, I have learned a lot about it and technically been in treatment for it. This is kind of just a game of semantics and, for people later in "healing journeys'", it's largely it's down to preference. From my time in a dissociative treatment inpatient place, I noticed that 'host' tended to be the term used later in treatment when the whole self (or most of the self) were aware of having parts/being a part. The idea of a "core personality" is one that gets on with daily life, largely - if not entirely - unaware of the other parts, or even that they are missing memories or experiences that they should be aware of. The idea (although not true for everyone) is that, growing up, there is a part of self that goes about daily life, participating in life in a way exactly as would be expected of a person that age/culture/environment. The alters exist as a way to support this functioning, by withholding or restricting access to memories or preventing them from ever experiencing certain things at all. When someone refers to a "core" in DID, in my mind, they are referring to this "daily life" self. Sometimes the "untouched by trauma" self. There's an idea (however true or untrue) that this is who they would be if whatever the sucky stuff was had never been a part of their lives. The "real self" not "survival mode" self. But crucially, they are a part who is unaware of the other parts, and the other parts exist to enable this "core" part to live life as they are. As the 'core' becomes aware of alters, and alters become aware of each other, this is where I noticed the language start to shift both amongst professionals and patients. To "host" is usually voluntary. Usually, it's a choice. If not, it is at least a position held by a part who knows that they are a part and who is aware that they are the part of self that is 'out' most of the time. The acknowledgement and acceptance that they are part of a system is intrinsic to the use of the word 'host'. The are not some centre player with a bunch of supporting pieces whose sole job it is to keep this player able to function. It is no longer "we support and protect the core", it is "we are a single person learning to work together to function as one person". I'm not quite sure how to explain it properly - I hope that made some sense. This is also just from my experiences and my awareness. As I said, it's also a bit of a choice. Frankly, in the unlikely chance that all those mental doctors turn out to be correct and I am, in fact, a multiple, I would insist that I am core, not host. This is my body, this is my life, and this person is me. Janina Fisher is someone quite big in this research area, and she talks a lot about everyone having parts whether they experience chronic dissociation/amnesia or not. She encourages people to work with their sad parts, child parts etc. I don't think most non-multiples doing inner child work, for example, would consider themselves 'hosts' and their 'inner child' a separate entity. They likely still consider themselves 'the person' or 'themselves' and the inner child a part that is within them. Similarly, should my alters exist at all, I believe that I am the core me and other parts are valid and worth hearing but not the essence of myself. Maybe level of fragmentation and awareness come into it, as well as self-acceptance and what language feels most right. Also - I'm not certain, but I get the sense that 'host' is more of a modern term as more research as been done into and awareness brought to DID. I think this show is set in the 70s or 80s, so 'core' is the language that would have been used at the time. That was a lot - sorry. Thanks for reading. Again, I hope that made some kind of sense and answered the question a bit : )
@@Sophia-cd2ci Thank you so much for the time and care that went into your comment, I really appreciate you sharing your experience and perspective and was invested in every bit of it (i.e. it wasn’t too long, don’t worry). This makes a lot of sense and I can understand that the terminology might change for some systems as their diagnosis/healing journey progresses. Also a good point that the show is set when a lot of the research we rely on today wasn’t yet available!
@@Sophia-cd2ci this is an awesomely detailed breakdown of some common ways DID is experienced! It's so good to have stuff like this written out for people to read and understand, it's not too long :)
