If I don't need the sound system, I've even gone as far as to face the speakers into the wall, and up against the wall, so nothing can get to the delicate tweeter domes, or even the coil caps on the mid range and woofers. Re-position them only if you need them.
Thanks for resolving this! I had a brief two month stop-over with my parents when I was between houses about 14 years ago, and my mother damaged the tweeter dome on my stereo speakers by vigorously dusting them. It really doesn't just have to be children or dogs! ("Oh, for goodness' sake, the dust can't have been doing them any good either..." She really does think that dust is the biggest evil in the entire world).
I remember my grandaughter coming into the living room the first time after I had removed the grills , she went straight to the midrange dome, finger extended to poke it ... I shouted no just in time .. its amazing how they spot them and are drawn :-)
Many years ago, when my children were toddlers, I owned a pair of Magnaplaners (sp?) - very high end, but somewhat fragile audiophile speakers. Maggie's don't have domes, but the speaker area is thin and frail, and no match for a toddler with a rubber tip bow and arrow. Knowing my two rambunctious boys, I lived in constant fear that sooner or later, a Tinker Toy would end up being stabbed through my beloved speakers. I confided my problem to a friend who offered to sell me his pair of BullFrog PA speakers. Now, I know that true audiophiles will gag at the suggestion of using PA speakers in place of high end stereo speakers, but to my (tin) ear, they actually sounded pretty darn good. The sale clincher was when my friend demonstrated the child proof (aka drunken dancer proof) feature consisting of steel mesh speaker grills. He actually threw a beer bottle across the room and bounced it off the steel grill. "Let's see you try that with your fancy ass Maggerplanters". Long story short, I sold the Maggie's and bought the Bullfrogs. That was 35 years ago and believe it or not, the Bullfrogs are still proudly displayed in my man cave, still sound great AND have never suffered a dented dome. Possibly a pointless story, but I thought you might be amused.
Ha! A buddy of mine bought a pair of Advent Heritage speakers to ho with his home cinema. They worked well, but he had cats, and the cats had sharp claws. I bought some 1/4" hardware cloth, cut it to size, and formed it around the grilles. End of problem. Heck, they didn't even look bad!
I was working in a HiFi shop when a family came in one Saturday and a little 3yr old ran down a line of about 20 floorstanders on display popping in every tweeter in about 30sec with their finger whilst we watched it happen as if in slow motion, none of the staff could react quick enough! The family were a lovely bunch and no harm done. I spent the rest of the morning carefully popping tweeters out and ordering spares 😬
I work in a music store and run into this issue ALL THE TIME. I have found that Gaff tape works the best for this purpose. it's adhesive is just strong enough to pull out even the most collapsed tweeter domes/dustcaps with no damage or tearing.
"Whipped to DEATH" LOL! Don't do it! It's so tempting for kids to "poke" at speakers. My son is 24, but I STILL leave my grills on just in case. My M. A. Silver 300's weren't cheap! Love your videos, Paul. Thanks!
6 лет назад
I've been waiting a long time for someone to answer this question. Thank you.
Paul - Thanks for this video. I was able to get a silk dome tweeter pulled back out with duct tape! I'd tried some other tapes but I appreciate so much your help. All good here!
Great video post Sir!!! I've been doing that very simple technique for tweeters. love your candor as well. like listening to a Dad I never had. God bless you and your family.
I got my dented tweeter pop back out years ago, but I've been living with this terrible feeling that my tweeter is irreversebly damaged since then. Paul, what a relief after so may years of insecurity! Thank you!
Cheers for this... i was gonna buy more speakers! I used the tape method & it worked ok.. didn’t get all the small dents out but better than nothing! 👍
I would receive many damaged metal tweeters from JBL , INFINITY and other brands . I would use a heat gun at a distance at low setting and fan rapidly across the tweeter , and the air trapped would expand the dome back into place . Please be careful not to melt the surface ! Distance and patience, it actually works very well . A hair dryer would probably be safer to use than a heat gun.
I got a pair of B&W DM601 S2 in exchange for some work I did for a friend. The tweeter domes were dented in. I can’t prove it, but after I gently popped the dents out, the tweeters seemed to be more detailed. The remaining lines and imperfections probably don’t matter, but the larger dents seemed to affect it. I’m talking more than half of the surface area was dented in. Weirdly, this was only noticeable when driven by my dads expensive Quad amp.
Thank you thank you thank you! I dented a tweeter getting some studio monitors out of the box! I was thinking "oh god i've ruined them and i haven't even used them yet". But all sorted with some strong double-sided-stick-tape. Thank you!
I had it with a KEF tweeter. The sound was still good but it looked weird. I took my vacuum cleaner and had it put in the LOWEST power setting and gently pulled it. Worked great! 👏👏👏
Accidentally dented a Monacor DT-352NF during testing. Metal dome tweeter. Dent was about 10mmx10mm. This introduced 10-20% distortion spikes (measured on REW) from 6k to 18k as compared to previous measurements.
I was a professionell child. I poked a pen through a 15" and a mid range. Good thing the towers were so high I couldn't reach the tweeters. Now with a repaired 15" they play in my room. I will build metal cages when that time comes around. For the kids of course, I would never block the sound.
I had 2 pair of Quad ESL57's in a stack when my first kid was born. First thing I did was sell them. Even though they have pretty sturdy metal grills in the front and the back, I just could not live with the idea of my kids poking something metal in there. For the ones who don't know the ESL57's, these are electrostatic speakers which carry around 6000V of tension on the panels. Now my daughters are 8 and 10 and a couple of years ago I was able to start all over again with highenderitis. The stack is back, with Gradient subs and 4 Quad II tube amps. My kids know very well how expensive the setup is and treat it with the utmost respect.
I did this a few weeks ago. A total eureka moment! Paul. love the videos they're insanely interesting. If you're ever in Ireland! The Guinness is on me!
Our cat Elvis The Pelvis shredded the Emit tweeters on my old Infinity RS5000s. Cat claws are the perfect instrument to get between the slots in the metal plate on top. I bought new Emit ribbons from a NZ service agent and they were dead easy to install. Elvis was buried under our lemon tree, but some years after this indiscretion 😹
I have a cat has done about £2,000 worth of tweeters and drivers kids and cats will always f*** your speakers best take precautions and cover when not in use some people don't have pets or kids but they're generally a bit strange maybe paedophiles or worse religious
Being excellent parents ( :D ) it was not our children I needed to worry about but a friends mischievous (yet likable) young man of 4 or 5 years old who one day came running into our lounge and (I must say oddly) made a direct beeline for the closest speaker & as he stared at me with a huge gargoyle-esque like grin defiantly jabbed his finger into the pristine shiney dome of a tweeter before I could even think let alone "whisper" ;) the word "NO!!!" Fortunately it wasn't difficult back then, some 15+ years ago, to purchase a replacement locally (I live on an Island in the UK so it was quite unusual to have niche items to hand so I made sure to make the most of it (Sadly the shop has long since closed and a Domino's pizza is in its place...) so I replaced it as it was a metal dome and he did an excellent job of ramming the B&W tweeter near flat & no amount of tape, blu tac or other could restore its position. Anyway a week or so later our friend visited with her mischievous little man & without hesitation he attempted to repeat the act vandalism with equal glee but this time being "practiced" he didn't even take an aiming glance at the tweeter he simply wished to see the pain on my face for the second time, it didn't occur. He lunged his hand forward with outstretched finger expecting a satisfactory "ping/squish" but instead he instantly realised his finger was not pushing anything at all but well & truly stuck firmly up to the 1st knuckle in a metal grill I had purposefully velcroed over both tweeter and woofer. I can't lie, I had a grin very similar to the one he first had, if not identical. :D With a little soap & mummies hugs he was freed, *unharmed, oddly to never attempt such a dastardly deed again. *It was a quality grill bought for the exact purpose of preventing him & other younguns damaging the speakers further & although I had not planned for him to get stuck I was fully conscious of assuring there were no sharp edges, anywhere.
I had a dented tweeter once after second hand purchase. Tweeter not clearly visible due to speaker design. I heard and felt something wrong that time. Unpleasant and peaky highs, did some freq test with MIC and found out a peak around 9khz @ 12DB!! And the overall response wasnt flat at all! Removed dust cover and found the dented tweeter! Fixed it by slowly warm It up and roll out the dent from the inside of tweeter moving your finger slowly. Measured afterwards and its flat like the other speaker again which didnt had a dent. So in my case i heard something wrong and to me a Dented Tweeter cant produce the right fequencies at right levels. It took me a while before i heard something wrong. It wasnt a damaged tweeter but a serious dent. Cheers!
patrickalphenaar small. (Shallow) dents won’t cause any problem but if a dent is deep enough so that the cone surface comes into contact with the coil centre when it actuated that can obviously cause distortion. This is less likely to happen with the woofer cone as they have more travel anyway, but with a dome tweeter a relatively small den’t could easily cause issues, especially if the dent is away from the centre of the dome.
frodev , for sure a minor or slight dent wont cause too much trouble. I think the dispersion might be a bit distorted however wont be able to hear it i guess. In my case it was a serious dent and was causing serious problems. Luckily could fixed it. Cheers.
John Morris Hi, well some other people in my home studio also didnt hear any issue. Maybe Paul could have heard it in my Situation, i like to watch his videos as entertainment but i listened to very expensive high end gear and mostly they dont impress me at all! But felt in love with Zingali Speakers, but way to expensive! B&W never listened too but yes they most be great if used in so many Mastering Studios! A friend of my listened to them in a Mastering studio and loved them! However he says my Mirage M5-si reminds him Listening to B&W’s. So happy to know that. Currently using Full range Genelec in my new room and love them! Not only Analytic but also very musical after having them play in Phase! Which took me ages to achieve! Placement is as important as Room Acoustics! Cheers.
I use a vaccum cleaner for dust caps. place the pipe on the dust cap, turn on vacuum, it pops out, turn the vacuum off before pulling the pipe away because it might pull the cone out too far and that's it.
yes, worked for me. Adapt the hose to a tube same diameter as the dome, adjust the air bypass hole until the vacuum force is just right to gently pull out the dome.
@Anthony Martino I tried that but the dust caps on my subs were too stiff; some sort of treated paper. All it did was pull a bit of the outer layer of paper away from the caps. I eventually gave up and had to live with my ugly, smash-faced subs, thanks to my 4 year old cousin staying with us.
I wish I had read your post, before I wrote mine. I recommended the very same thing. I just recommended, that you place the pipe against the dome first, THEN turned on the vacuum. Then, hold the pipe perfectly still, turn off the vacuum, and wait for the motor to wind down before removing it. My tweeter had a very stiff dome, compared to the very compliant surround.
@@Viewer19 I agree. You don't want to over do it, and collapse the coil former. Otherwise, I hope you can find a replacement diaphragm for your particular tweeter.
I once got a dented dust cap on a cardboard subwoofer cone, obviously doesn’t affect the sound but it’s a lot more difficult to pop back out. If this happens to you, you can use a sewing needle to pull it back into shape.
To say it has no ill effects seems a little odd to me. A tweeter is essentially a piston that radiates sound waves in a given patter, based on its shape. Once that shape is altered, it can't radiate the way it did when it in its proper dome shape, which is often measurable off-axis. I, personally, would replace any pushed in tweeter, regardless of whether it still sounds good at the listening position.
Old video/comment, but... yes, technically the shape is altered, but any little leftover creases after popping it back up make any changes undetectable to human hearing, at least for us mere mortals. In my case even in its pushed-in state there was no audible difference to my ear, so why pay possibly triple-digit sums to replace a minor cosmetic flaw? Which isn't to say that it can't be worth doing for someone else, but for my money it certainly wasn't.
@@tvih84 Well, sort of...but it's not always like that. What can and does often happen is that off-axis measurements can change significantly, which you could theoretically notice if and when walking around the room while listening. That said, you're right that if you re-shape it and it still works, the difference would most likely be undetectable (I'd STILL want to change it though... because I'm like that! lol). Cheers!
Audio, Automotive, music, metallurgy, firearms have always been high on my list of things of interest. I've always regretted not being able to build speakers. To Be able to understand how they work along with being able to build them. Because time and money never permitted.
I've seen accounts online that denting can matter with certain metallic materials. Creases cause stress hot spots, and the regular operation of the speaker can then induce metal fatigue to the point of failure. I've only seen this with regards to full range titanium cone speakers, however.
you can absolutely crack metallic tweeter domes when you pop them back out. Ive done it to a set of JBL nd310 floor standers. You can also burn the tweeters out very easily through friction if you dont repair or replace them, and even take crossover components out when they do if you even have a tiny bit of high register clipping coming from an overworked reciever or something. Ive done it to a set of jbl nd310 floorstanders. Definitely just replace the diaphragm or entire tweeter if thats not an option.
The tape trick worked for me, both of my Rega R9's had dented tweeter's (the ones in the center) and rolling tape over both drivers popped em back out.
Although I agree that you probably won't hear the difference, you can measure the altered dispersion of a damaged tweeter. All speakers are designed to act as a piston, but actually flex and "break up" to some degree in a predictable way. If the dome's shape no longer provides this rigidity then flexing will occur where there are creases. So, it becomes a matter of how much it matters to you to restore the speaker's original performance.
Hi Paul! I repaired a dented tweeter of a used speaker (TDL Nucleus 2) but it remained a little bit "deformed", like it has little "curves" in it. Does it influence sound quality? Is there any track i can use to test this? At my ears it's like there's a lack in medium-high range, but i think maybe i'm just influenced about the reparation... :)
I got a 2" softdome midrange that was dented when delivered. I just carefully sucked it out without getting it wet. Immediately after I could see 5 slight indentations in the semi gloss finish. In a couple of days I couldn't see a trace. I couldn't measure distortion from it and was the same as the other 3 undented and perfect domes I got.
1999, 21 years old, I was still living at home. I had just purchased a brand new pair of B&W 601-2 👍. The day I bought them, happened to be the same day my mother was taking care of my 7 year old cousin. The speakers had been set up for approx 2 hours. I made the fatal error of leaving the grills off. I had to pop out. I shut my bedroom door. Came home, door wide open 🤔 to my shock and anger, one of the metal dome tweeters was not a dome anymore 😡 I was furious, my mothers response to it, "it's only a speaker, she didnt mean it" my response WHAT!!!!! Had to take speaker back to the shop same afternoon. Now the naughty bit. Money abit tight back then, already spent my budget buying the speakers. I managed to convince the shop owner they came to me damaged 🤥 he excepted my story and repaired them for free. I still feel guilty to this day. And yep, I still own the speakers.
Please can anyone enlighten me as to what tower speakers those are in the video? The midbass/bass drivers look identical to the ones on my Sansui speakers.
The letter he was reading said metal dome. This method may work for a soft dome but I have tried to pull out the dent in my KEF speaker and it did not work. Any other ideas please?
My friend used to work at a Hi Fi store, and they had a tool for getting dents out of domes. It was a long time ago, and I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was repurposed from something used in the electronics industry, and worked by suction (it was not a solder sucker). Anyway, it was someone's job at the end of the day to go around and suck all the domes back out after they had all been pushed in by kids throughout the day. He said Saturdays were the worst - every single dome in the store would be dented without fail.
I've had good luck with the tape method for pushed in dust caps. For really stubborn dust caps, you may have to get more extreme.....I've had some luck with a needle with the tip bent near 90 degrees - pierce a small hole, insert the needle tip and pull the dent out....then apply a small dab of color matched silicone caulk to cover the hole. Metal domes are tougher. The best I've managed to do with a metal dome tweeter is to remove the diaphragm from the magnet and gently push the dome back out from the inside....a pencil eraser can help smooth out the wrinkles, but it's never gonna look like new again, though it can still perform well.
I have repaired varios light dented dustcap with suction. I worked before with a different tweeters (cheap Chinese Twitters ) with metal "titanium" diaphragm. those with metal chassis and phaseplug, the diaphragm are almost re formed by hand and a popsicle wooden stick, And some modifications after, i achieved the right sound.
I have a question about tweeter dispersion. I remember Dynaudio recommended I rotate my LCR tweeter if I switched it between vertical and horizontal. The wider dispersion was in the direction of the electrical contacts. Currently I have Definitive Technology 1" aluminum dome tweeters that are made to tilt. However, to tilt the tweeters laterally requires tilting them down then rotating them to create a horizontal tilt. My worry is that after rotating them 90 degrees to aim them to the side that I would then have the best dispersion characteristics going up and down instead of laterally! So the question is, do these newer tweeters have significant differences in vertical and horizontal dispersion? FYI, I pop out my silk domes by sucking on them with a toilet paper tube, not my idea, but brilliant and effective.
I had a set of JBL nd310 floorstanding speakers. They had a 3/4" titanium dome tweeter. My ex's kid stuck a finger or pencil eraser end, or something in one of them and dented it. It still functioned fine, but accuracy of imaging on that side of the sound stage suffered a little bit (right channel). Wasn't much at all, and at my current age, i dont know if id notice anything, but the lines of separation were most definitely blurred a little on that channel from then on so to speak. I could detect it with them flipped around as well. I was very accustomed to the sound of that 1 set of speakers, center of image vocals almost felt smeared backwards and up, very subtle and hard to describe even at the time. Once a set of the tweeters popped up on ebay and i replaced them, the "blurred lines" went away. But not before trying to undent yet again and cracking the dome. This tweeter eventually went on to burn out from high frequency clipping way before it should have, taking some crossover components with it (in a half-assed project in some white van special boxes anyway) Funny tid-bit: The way the center image was affected was almost perfectly in line with the tweeter damage. The dent was on the upper right section of the dome only on the speaker i used for the right channel, and the right side of center image felt smeared and blurred subtly "backwards and to the top right" was how i described it at the time. The dent was absurd how small yet deep it was without cracking the dome, and the kid never came clean on how he did it either. It can definitely have an effect if left dented, but even then, it's not very significant (at least on a set of low end jbl towers lol). They still sounded fine for what they were. Those were a surprisingly detailed, and overall pleasing set of speakers being a lower end JBL deal though (I paid like 100 used for the set, were like $500 new or something like that, was my first set of "woah, ive been missing soooo much!" speakers), at the time i was surprised by them to say the least
I have be building speakers for over 50 years and in that time I have also repair quite a few. I have used a vacuum cleaner hose to suck the deformation right out. Be careful not to allow lengthy suction.
The absolute best way i found to fix collapsed domes is a vacuum cleaner. It works wonderfully. Just carefully put the end tube on the dome and the suction force will pull it back to shape. Works on all sizes (smaller ones even better), I even pulled back huge domes on bass drivers with ease. Careful though not to damage anything else while doing this, also be prepared to do a quick turn of on the vacuum cleaner, if it has sufficient force, not to accidentally rip the dome.
What also worked for me on woofers is getting the hose of your vacuum cleaner and if you can turn down the power of the vacuum and just suck the dented part of the dustcap out.
This is Brian. I really wish you would have explained to people that on larger woofers and midrange speakers, these domes have no practical purpose except as dust covers. As a matter of fact, were you to manufacture speakers, this part is called The Dust Cover. I've seen speakers that have no dust cover, be it because the glue wore out or they were very old and the dust cover wasn't installed at all. It actually protects the windings from gathering dust.
I got the B&W CM s2 speakers..unlike the 1st series they covered the tweeter with a metal mesh grill so no more problems. Best part is that for those who don't have this issue..the grill can be screwed off.
The metal dome tweeters on my Kef speakers got dented and it made them sound as though the singer was singing with their nose pinched. Never mind kids, I lived with 2 women approaching middle age then and "it definately wasn't them who had done it"
Make a cardboard tube using a tube from paper towel. Cut and then tape it air tight so it's the same diameter as your tweeter and suck the dent out. That is how we fix them.
Would agree with the minimal effect a dent in a soft dome tweeter has. Duct tape has much better adhesive strength than Tesa or Scotch household tape, the strongest tape I know is for thatching roofs, or rather isolating them, Swiss Siga Sicrall or Rissan, but that might be overkill... as in *kill*. Some amature products available in hardwarestores for the same purpose might just hit the sweet spot in adhesiveness. Maybe try cutting off small ribbons to place in a loop on the rounded end of a srewdriver to get just the little dents, not a large area of the dome. Also, some guy here on RU-vid recommends placing the cardboard tube of a toilet roll around the whole thing to make the dents come out again, using suction with his mouth, never a vacuum.
my buddy and I would practice juggling ( harder than tennis balls ) and other such - I ran guitar string wires across the front of all the speakers from the attachment screws. speakers saved.
No tape I had in the house worked but my son in law-to be was trying to pull the dent out it out with a Vacu Vin wine saver vacuum hand held pump. It did not work until we added the rubber stopper against the dent to make a better seal...voila!!!
Also the man in the vid said some people treat their dogs better than children. Well the dogs shouldn't be treated worse. too many people see other species as inferior and its wrong
Years ago I had a pair of DynAudio stand mounted speakers that had silk dome speakers. One of my friends inadvertently pushed one of those domes in collapsing the top of the dome inwards (this was after we both had more than our share of bourbon0. I let it be for the rest of the evening but nothing amiss while we continued to listen to records, The next day I looked at it and on a whim I managed to suck the dent out of the dome by just using my mouth, it just took a second and those speakers sounded just fine for the next dozen years. As to corporal punishment of young children I find the best results can be had by grabbing them by the hell and flailing them against a nearby wall - safely away from any speakers or turntable.
Use Gorilla Tape. I've also used an attachment from a vacuum cleaner but you must keep the suction some distance from the tweeter and approach it very slowly -- it is easy to damage the tweeter with a vacuum. I think significantly dented tweeters do affect sound dispersion and the hardest of these to fix seems to be the Polk trilaminate tweeters. I often see used Polk speakers for sale with dented trilaminate dome tweeters and I believe those tweeters should be replaced.
My recommend trick is getting a toilet roll tube, put it over the caved in tweeter and suck on the other end . It should be enough to pull it back into shape. DON'T USE THE VACUUM CLEANER!
Many years ago one of my DynAudio D28 tweeters got dented in. I looked at it for a few days and then decided a little negative pressure might work. I placed my mouth on the tweeters metal plate and sucked to form a vacuum, when I backed off the dent was gone and there were just a couple of wrinkle marks on the dome. Had i thought of using tape I would have tried it but my unorthodox method worked just fine.
Double sided tape.... Works great. 90% of my highs were gone, both tweeters. Until this idea hit me. Pushed firm, pulled very slowly popped em' both out. Sounds like before.
I prefer the vacuum cleaner method. Turn on the vacuum and slowly approach the dome with the hose. You may need to keep VERY positive control over the hose to keep it from jamming itself into the tweeter. But eventually, the suction should pull the dome out with minimal damage.
I've actually repaired them with a canister vacuum cleaner. You have to be careful. Don't turn on the vacuum and put the hose end on the tweeter. It will do a lot of damage. What you have to do, is place the hose nozzle against the perimeter of the dome, being careful not to touch the surround. be super careful not to apply any force. then, turn the vacuum on, allowing the suction to vacuum reform the spherical shape of the dome, then, turn the vacuum off, and hold absolutely still, until the motor of the vacuum comes to a stop. Then, pull the nozzle away. It's critical that you keep the nozzle absolutely still, while the vacuum is on, so the voice coil and surround are not damaged. There is no spider like there is in a woofer. If the surround is damaged, and the coil starts to rub, the tweeter could be lost. I was afraid of using adhesive, because the dome was stiff, compared to the very compliant surround. I was successful, but it's a last ditch effort to save the tweeter. the sound quality seemed fine.
