Does a wobbly table RUIN print quality? 

Important to know that the real reason Angus's prints are not affected by being upside down is because he's in Australia and two upside downs cancel out

I'd like to see the same test with a machine that doesnt rely on Input Shaping to see if that's the secret sauce or if it really in general doesnt matter which surface to print on...

It would be interesting to see this on a printer that didn't do a compensation calibration.

Emily the engineer did some pretty extreme testing recently too, upside down, on its side, hanging from the ceiling, getting kicked and swung, in a vat of oil 😂. Love these test videos

The funny thing is that that "bad" benchy is what most peoples decent benchy looks like

Would be interesting to see how that would be on a printer that is not individually calibrated for input shaping. Like the Prusa Mk4/Mini that have Input shaping but no accelerometer.

Kudos for reading the comments and addressing them in a very positive and informative manner. Cheers

Good Job on that video! I build my THE 100 3d printer around a wobbling pla frame to even reduce vibration. It's nice to see that more and more people realise that wobbling does not affect your printing quality and also that it could improve your printing quality especially when printing at highest speeds

All hail the wobbly table! I remember when Tom Sanladerer made an overly complex bouncy box to hold a printer to see if it would reduce ringing and... it didn't really do anything, maybe even made it a little worse IIRC. But like you said, this is probably the first time being done on a high speed printer (and certainly first I've seen for a cantilever and input-shapping based printer). Still interesting to see the results. You did the same prints on 3 different env. Would be interested in the extra env. of the concrete slab + checking noise (you commented it was quietest on concrete, but other audio comments seemed to be around calibration instead of the print itself). My mind now wants to see something extra: Given basically the whole Klipper community, and Bambu, have the ability to rerun the calibration for different env. But the other juggernaut in the space, Prusa, has decided... "nah" and does the input shaping calibration in factory. So, using the same A1 mini, if you calibrated it once (say, the concrete floor) and then ran it without calibration in all the same env/test... what are the results? Is the quality the same and all this calibration in each env. a waste of time... or is quality worse, Prusa messed up and I should be demanding an accelerometer from them. If fixed calibration is fine/good, it could open a whole new area where you can take your Marlin-based printer (which actually supports input shaper), have one person do the calibration, and then share those settings around to the rest of the community. Literally turning basically every printer out there, capable of running the latest Marlin, and turning it into a fast printer without needing to Klipperize or mod the printer.

This is actually a bit of a concern for Prusa machines, especially the Mk4, which has input shaping so it prints fast - but the compensation is done at the factory, then the accelerometer is removed before shipping. So they can compensate for the printer's own vibrations, but the printers can't calibrate themselves based on the environment. It's one of those decisions that baffles me about Prusa's Mk4.

I bought the first ultimaker 1 in 2011 when it was still insane to own a 3d printer. i put it on a table and printed a test object. i saw the table wobbling very very slightly and my engineering instincts instantly shouted "this will ruin your print quality". so i put in on the hard floor and reprinted the part, and indeed, it was visibly better. that trusty wooden 3d printer is still there on the floor, printing as beautifully as ever, never replaced a part, not even a belt.

I suspect machines not using linear rails for every axis will have worse results. There's a lot more flex in something like a rubber wheel running directly on v-rail. So vibration damping is probably still quite useful for the majority of machines out there.

I appreciate the recognition that although it doesn't matter as much, as a communicator, how it looks helps keep the focus where it's needed. This kind of curious dialog between audience and creators is what is most unique about RU-vid. Excellent experiment.

I appreciate the honesty of reviewers !

I was running my Original Prusa Mk.2S on a plywood table built into a closet wall, the table was amplifying the printer noise and making it really loud. I used a cement paving tile and a partially inflated air cushion under the tile to quiet it down. This made an incredible difference and now I just hear the cooling fan.

Great video! Have been wondering for ages whether my table is actually a problem

When I saw the video title I thought you meant "Wobbly print bed". Your test was well worth performing.

Excellent video! The speed on that little printer is impressive. I think the slight ghosting could be a combination of both the increased speed and belt vibration. All things considered still impressive prints. Thanks again for the great information!

Thank you for running these experiments. I have been curious about all of this too. For an X1 Carbon another thing to consider is how you have the cabinet door when you run the vibration calibration. The first time I did the calibration the door was open. Later I began thinking that would certainly change the dynamic responses since we run the printer with the door closed. So of course, we reran the calibration. I really don't know if it made a difference but still it is more realistic to do the calibration with the door closed.

This is truly remarkable. Thanks for the testing!!

What a riot Angus, you have, as always done a super job on this one!

Very interesting video, Angus. Thank you for sharing. I hope you keep investigating this issue.

Thank you for this, Iv got the A1 and i have it on a VERY cheap Garage shelf that iv put weights on to reduce the wobble, but it still wobbles so much, good to know its not really an issue, even when we are upside down(fellow aussie)

This was an interesting video for me because when I was getting into printing, I always heard that printing on wobbly tables or non-level surfaces was bad for quality. Despite this, I set up my first Ender 3 on a 120 year old table that belonged to my great-great grandma. It is a beautiful table, but it was so wobbly due to the table's connecting joints becoming loose with age. When I got my second Ender 3 a year later, I upgraded to a much sturdier table that could fit both printers, but I found no difference in print quality, leaving me questioning everything I had heard about wobbly tables and non-level surfaces.

Thanks so much! I have six P1S printers and I still haven't made a desk for them yet out of fear of vibrations from one printer effecting the others. I've got a couple on concrete slabs and I think I'll buy a big multi-shelf unit and just put all the printers on the concrete slabs. Thanks for the video!

Very entertaining and interesting video Angus. I was worried about printing on a wobbly table and took extreme action too and saw no difference. Back when I was working with large machinery we actually solved manufacturing issues by putting machinery on flexible mounts to let them move more. Physics can be very complex. 😁 Cheers!

Just wanna say.... I don't think it's visible with the big stuff you guys usually (test) print, but I print small items with little nobs (smaller than a benchy) that are also ironed on the top surfaces to sell. I always see issues on the little nobs. My 2 bedslinger printers are on the same table as 2 (paper) printers and a silhouette cameo (plotter), and these 3 tend to shake my table when they're working. I've gotten layer shifts when I have them all on and working at the same time. That's why I was very interested in this anti vibration tech by bambu.

Great video buy I think the real thing someone needs to test is the effect of wobbling on MTBF or other printer wear and tear. As well as stats about model detaching from surface, the likeliness of that in correlation to wobbling

I never had any doubt. As long as the printer has high rigidity and low flex between the axes as well as a fairly tight movement system with low backlash, then the printer will not care. It is striving to go to very specific points in space and it will do so with a tight build. Many, if not most, artifacts are a result of loose or stretching belts and /or loose or wobbling axes (especially the X & Zed axis riser) and other backlash or imprecision issues... even the flex in loose rubber wheels. Many of those can be corrected with proper and consistent maintenance. It *IS*, after all, a machine tool! Even expensive lathes and multi axis milling machines are only as good as the latest maintenance. Proper homing and leveling checks are necessary on at least a weekly basis during daily use. Still, an excellent example of what a good solid base and a bit of compensation can do. Thank you very much for testing out the theory and proving that 3D printers DO have the capabilities as long as they are rigid and the slicer software is accurate with the commands being sent.

Awesome fun video. it goes to show how much this thing is doing. I am a firm believer of cnc kitchen take on this, and even though Bambu does a fine job of stabilizing. I believe anything you can do to help stabilize a printer will help with print quality and certain noise.

This is the exact video i was looking for! Thank you! I just bought a 3d printer and Ill be using it in a trailer 😅. I wasnt sure how that would affect print quality

Great video. I vote to keep the wobbly table. It helps the average consumer/enthusiast like me know that the print quality won't change too much even if they don't have the ideal setup. Nice work 👍🏻

I have been running a Creality K1 on a wobbly folding table for months, and I haven't noticed any problems from it.

Thanks, that was helpful. I've had my printer on a pretty solid workbench but wanted to put my new one on a desktop next to it that is nearly as solid but not perfectly level. Sounds like it wont affect anything.

i got a neptune 4 recently, first printer, and it is proudly a member of team floor printer. I had trouble even after bracing the table on 3/4 sides with wadded up socks. Eventually just put the table on the ground and printer on that. Dunno if it truly helps, but it makes me less anxious lol.

It would be much better to actually look at the parameters that were set by autocalibration in each particular case. Because even if the quality may look similar, effective printing speed might suffer if the acceleration is reduced due to calibration detecting more vibrations (not sure if this is the case for Bamboo autocalibration though, it might only change the shaper frequencies and that would just lead to more artifacts with the same acceleration).

I suspect my Ender 3 Pro won't be as resilient as this printer 😆

I'm very glad to see this test in the way you did it Angus! And also the comments you make about all this. It DOES confirm that vibrations/wobbly underground DOES have an influence on the print quality! It makes sense, it passes the smell test, it confirms the gut feeling. I have seen many people/youtubers in the past stating otherwise. Stating it doesn't matter at all. Which doesn't sit right with me; I always had the feeling: it doesn't mean that if you can't see it with a quick test, that it isn't there.... And your test confirms this thought. However, it also shows that with 'normal' usage, those influences are extremely small. Up to the point they are as good as imperceivable when you use an ordinary decent normal table or underground. And all this taken in account that with the printer you used there is input shaping/frequency calibration being done. So, I suspect, without such a 'modern' feature, the result might be a little more pronounced. How much so? Accordingly to those 'older' test from those 'random' youtubers, not much more difference either. But I strongly suspect it does have a bit more influence. Conclusion: use any decently stable enough underground, but you don't need to go overboard with it; a normal table will do. (unless you're of the kind who paints flames on the car to make it go faster.... in that case: go all in, it will not hurt :-P )

Thanks for the interesting testing!

A neighbour left an aged parasol base beside their driveway. After it wasn't collected for a couple of months, I took it, drilled out the wobbly steel upright (obviously the reason it was thrown out), cleaned up the slab, slipped it under my printer, and it made a world of difference. Being decorative granite, it look gorgeous on my worktop. Since the top side is highly polished, there's no cable abrasion, and the printers rubber feet grip it nicely. As you say though, the big thing is how much quieter the whole printer is.

3D Printing in space: What are saggy bridges?

Usually "louder" is because the table top is acting as a sound board Hanging that printer from the gantry column probably was not the best option . The joint at the base of the column was designed to support the weight of the column and the gantry/print head. Hanging the printer from the column makes it support the base , power supply , electronics etc - much more mass and the joint flexes more. It would be better to hang it from the base using a cradle of cords or bungies from the corners of the base.

You should see Emily the Engineer's video where she hangs an Ender 3 from the ceiling by a single piece of rope, while she swung it around. The benchy came out pretty much perfect!

Great Video, and very entertaining. It would be great if you could repeat the test with a bambu p1 or x1 since those have heavier printer heads and a different movement system.

My Prusa Mini lives on top of a large Ikea Kallax shelf which definitely has some wobble to it when printing, especially with the newly added input shaping in the 5.1 alpha firmware. I did print out the 16 minute "Bonkers Benchy" Josef Prusa put out with the firmware update and it definitely has some artifacting, so I am now curious as to how well it would work if I printed it on a more solid surface. That said, I've generally had no issues with print quality before the input shaping was added, and prints came out looking nicer than the ones from my Ender 3 S1 that was sitting on the ground.

Thanks for your tests. In my experience (without input shaping), the rigid and massive base (or the floor) together with a thin and soft layer of rubber to adsorb and dissipate vibrations is the best solution.

I think the main problem is the calibration sequence on a wobbly printer. The goal is to measure resonances within the printer structure (e.g. between bed and toolhead), but measurement is done with an accelerometer which will measure overall (unintended) movement of the toolhead - even if some of that is the whole printer structure moving. This of course depends a lot on the actual resonance of a hanging printer or an unstable desk and if/how much the calibration sequence ignores such low frequency resonances.

Ok, next test. Printer on the hood of a car while driving through rural Texas! Great content! Loved this video.

This is hilarious. I was just showing this off on my only available flat surface in my 23+ printer farm (which is a table that swings over your lap, or bed, or whatever on wheels) and showing off the flawless results with this table moving a full 2-3 inches! haha.. I was going on chuckling about a torture test and someone posted your video!!! Great minds do think alike! Although I can't say I'd have gone as far as hanging it lmao. Well played sir!

For some reason I've always loved the little cantilevered printers and always wanted a Cetus, but man I adore that clear A1!

Fun and interesting results. Can't say that I'll be looking for a wobbly table for my 3d printers. I was thinking about putting one in the back of the car with a power station and run a print while driving around town....🤠

One of the early anto resonance mods was to put the whole printer on freestanding linear rails, so if anything it should improve

I love this community so much.

A wobbly table is ok if the printer has input shaping imo. (I'm the guy who gave you the maker coin at LTX!)

Hi, tks for the fun video Angus! For the X1C I read somewhere that the printer life is extended if using rubber feet (sold by BL) optional add-ons… I installed them. The table moves less & the printer does a jig. Probably a bit quieter. Do you think they extend printer life at all?

lol, Truly impressive. Hanging the printer was unique. Question for you on the auto-calibration, you mention that you ran it between changing what you were printing on; it brings to mind the question as to when exactly should you run the auto-calibrations on the bambu lab printers? I am getting my first one (coming from a 5 year old printer that did most things manual) and am wanting to know what (and when) it's recommended to calibrate. great series btw

@Angus Regarding the calibration for each "foundation" surface: Does the A1 Mini do this calibration with a head-mounted accelerometer and bed-mounted accelerometer? And if so, does it also have a chassis-mounted accelerometer? Or is it deriving X & Y vibration measurements from some other means, like maybe motor current? The key question is whether their measurements account for only resonances within the machine itself (eg: flexing of the head position relative to the bed), and ignore resonance of the printer-and-table assembly (which doesn't affect relative position of printhead and workpiece). Anyhow, nice video as always!

Interesting. I have been curious about this. I have put my printer on the floor (carpet)during speed runs and have managed slightly faster accelerations before layer shifts. My difference is i didn't calibrate input shaping when moving it. I feel input shaping helps a lot in this situation. Would like to see it without calibration.

This makes me feel much better about my setup lol. Here I was worried about perfectly leveling my workbench 😅

I have my P1P on the same table as my Photon Mono, but I don't typically run them at the same time, but I was running them both recently, and the vibration from the P1P caused the print on the photon to fall off the supports and fail the print

nice video me im trying to findt out why my temporter in the printer off mine is going up and down when i print i cant feel the air flow around him so its not that but i think more of that the termostate is broken off my ender 3

"No one in their right mind will do this." Meanwhile, I was already thinking of a way to install hanging chains in the overhead beam to do this myself.

My Prusa mini also printed perfectly fine on an unstable desktop, although that was an accident, and it didnt seem to be as noisy as the A1 mini. Im very satisfied with it

One thought occurred to me regarding hanging it from the ceiling. If you had a second cord attached at another point on the machine that was elastic but not too bouncy, like an exercise band, that would help to provide some damping and might even reduce errors to the point where it would be the same as the wobbly table.

You mad man. Honestly impressed with that hanging test

There's something about watching the suspended printer printing that just makes me laugh! This was a pretty interesting experiment

I didn't know that model printer has resonance compensation. That's neat. Calibrating for the resonance is a smart idea. Now I have to see if my printer (sv06) has that.

I use the concrete tile to dampen the noise from my 3D printers. The 3D Printers were a lot quieter since the vibrations don't make it to the surfaces that amplify the noise (my tables and desks). But like many others, I'd like to see a printer's results without input shaping on the different surfaces.

3:45 I like how Angus' hair is so advanced it has its own wifi antenna! I guess it's a hair-ial ! 🙂

Quality for hangin in the air looks pretty awesome for what it is 🤘🤘

Thank you great job

It would be good too see a 3d scan comparison. Definitely a perfect example to show off the differences.

❤Super interesting. Mahalo for sharing!😊

1:22 You're in Australia. You're always printing upside down! 😂

Like all forms of damping, a wobbly table replaces high frequency resonances that input shaping could cleanly eliminate with minimal positional inaccuracy/smoothing, with lower frequency resonances that might show less obvious ringing patterns, but which are impossible to correct with IS (because the filter window would be so long it would ruin accuracy). If you want high quality without slowing down a lot, you HAVE TO stiffen everything up.

Do you have a video on the calibration process you follow pre-printing?

Curious to see the same thing with a direct drive head (heavier, so probably more sensible to machine vibrations). Personnally I found my Ender 3 S1 Pro prints a bit better switching from my wobbly desk to UNDER the wobbly desk lol, directly on the floor.

I started thinking about sailing. Clipper round the world race is in Australia. Would it be possible to print some usable spare part with the printer hanging in a bungy cord from the ceiling of a rolling boat?

Nice testing! I think I fond more ways to improve the quality of Prusa mini~

Now I wanna see the A1 Mini printing in zero G, I think that would be really interesting to look at

What about two fast printers printing different things on the same wobbly surface? Will the shaking of one affect the other printer, cause the elegoo Neptune 4 max can print pretty quick and being a bed slinger it can shake pretty hard.

Considering the feedback, its crucial to research thoroughly before investing in the A1 mini

Since you were running input shaper, wouldn't the printer be louder on wobbly surface because the stepper motor have to work much harder to prevent resonance? That and in order to cancel the resonance the printer as to induce resonance.

I have an elgoo neptune 4 and put it on my heavier desk in comparison to my flip up desk to the side of it. I was worried it would get too wobbly but maybe I didn't actually have to do that. I don't have vibration compensation though

Would also be curious to see this test for resin printers! Am tossing up wether or not to impulse buy a resin printer in the boxing day sales but a) my balcony isn't level and b) my outdoor table is still a decently wobbly IKEA set 😅

I appreciate the convenience of a pre-assembled printer, but Ive heard concerns about the A1 minis size

Fun comparison. I’d like to know if two different (and different type) printers printing on the same table at the same time time have a negative impact on one another’s print quality. I guess I could try that one myself.

I would like to know how this would effect different types of filament. Especially TPU, PC and ABS. Though suspending a fully enclosed printer I assume would be a challenge.

lol I love it, hanging it from the roof was 😂. Nice video bro.

I had my X1C on a bench that wasn't completely supported on the front edge, it was attached to the wall so I figured it would be fine...Then I started Printing and It Constantly threw resonance errors till I supported the front edge of the bench with a random pile of things I had around the house. So I have to say it makes a difference.

Planned to put my printer onto my old, no longer used, DIY diaper change table, which is pretty sturdy and additionally Anker it to the wall corner of the room with two rods on both sides. Might reconsider it now, but probably do it anyway for noise reduction. Something you could have measured would be power consumption. As far as I understand how inputshaping works: it uses the motors to conter the vibration (not unlike using acceleration in the opposite direction instead of just breaks) Could need more energy on a wobbly desk compared to the concrete floor.

Whats up with TPU or other Flexmaterials? I think they would shake a lot during the print if the table is moving.

I wonder if the suspended in air showed slightly more artifacting because the printer was tilting back and forth roughly around its center of mass, as opposed to shaking back and forth along the the x and y?

i've only ever had an issue with wobbly tables with classic style printers (bed with z axis standing up in the middle). this, i found, can be reduced if not eliminated by adding z axis wobble deterrents. for the giggles i put my lk5 and qq s pro on one of those folding tables from wally world and they both came out fine. then i put a mega x then a kobra go on the same table. the x's print suffered the most with the go's print only showing slight wobble influence. the prints exhibited slight rippling in the layers where the z axis made large movements. now, i print at 80mm minimum. i did not test anything lower and cannot speak for it. the item i printed was just a basic hollow cyclinder for the most visual results.

Two (2x) A1 printers inversely opposed mounted on a bracket, printing identical models in perfect synchronisation suspended from an industrial spring. I’ll wait for the follow up video!

Happy, you talk about this, I tough about this many time watching your videos :D But I think you would see a more negative effect with a cheaper DIY 3d printer.

Amazing results

Was the print speed any different? I mean, does the resonance compensation slow down the speed a bit?

I think the problem with the hanging test was actually just the point of the printer you hung it onto. If my logic is correct, the print quality should be just fine, if you hang it from the base, for example using 4 strings or some kind of hanging gantry

Hey what is a good budget printer with a large print volume I have a cocoon create touch from ALDI that I have had for years and wish I could print bigger stuff