Does BBC Radio 4 Control Nuclear Submarines? 

'And now on Radio 4 the launch codes for HMS Vanguard followed by The Archers omnibus' - BBC Radio 4 Probably

The problem with all of these stories is that they fall apart if you think about them for more than two seconds.

Never heard the rumor. But there's a couple of issues with it already. 1) Submarines are UNDER WATER most of the time. When they surface they expose themselves and are easy to attack and in any other case they give away their position. Submarines operate on absolute stealth at all times, surfacing would be very counterproductive. Even if they don't surface entirely, the mere fact that they would get closer to the surface at 6 pm every day would make them easier to spot and keep track of. 2) As per point one above, radio signals transmitted from a land based antenna tower doesn't penetrate water that well. In fact it most likely just bounces off the surface completely. So any sub would have to get a receiver antenna to the surface in some way. It doesn't need to break the surface, but then the signal transmitted needs to be VLF (Very Low Frequency) in the range of 3 to 30 kHz. BBC 4 transmits on FM which is 80 - 108 MHz Frequency Modulated, meaning slight shifts in frequency make up the audio signal. Way too high frequency for submarines. And BBC 4 also transmits on LW (Long Wave) at 198 kHz. Still not good enough for submersed antennas. So they really have to break the surface with a rather beefy antenna to pick up BBC 4 every day at the exact time. As per point one, this would put the submarine at an extreme risk. 3) Submarines communicate mainly through the aforementioned low frequency of 3-30 kHz and they do so at their own SECRET specified times that are not easily guessed by any hostile actor. And there are aircraft with air-to-surface SONAR that will hit the surface of the water and cause vibrations that the submarine's passive SONAR operator can hear and capture as a message. This can be done much deeper in the ocean so the submarine need not do much at all besides be in the general area that is flown over to capture the message. Of course the message is encrypted and only the submarine with the correct key can decrypt it. And we aren't talking Enigma here, we are talking modern encryption that isn't as easily broken. ..... In conclusion, should nuclear war break out. All nuclear subs will know about it because either... a) A predetermined time for listening to communications via radio was not met for a number of attempts. Meaning the most likely scenario is that there's no one left to transmit the message. And no other method of communication has been met either. Pretty sure they also verify by other means, such as surfacing to sense what the air is like... If the air is very much full of vaporized Brits... Or signature radiation from enemy nukes. They know it's time to retaliate...! b) They receive their radio or SONAR transmission telling them that all hell has broken loose. Which is still quite likely because even if every inch of Britain was hit with nukes, there are still antennas that are made to withstand these conditions and are still able to transmit.

I was a ICBM Launh officer on a USAF Titan II launch crew in Kansas. We didn't have the codes to launch the Titan II on site, so if we lost communication with SAC HQ or Numbered AF, we couldn't launch. One time, I bought a copy of Popular Communication that had a listing of the SW radio stations that broadcast in English and made a copy of the listing and brought it on complex as a backup just in case "the ballon went up". I knew that HF communication would be nearly impossible if there was a nuclear strike, but it was a backup.

I was a radio mechanic in the Fleet Air Arm in the 70s/80s. It was common to test HF receivers by tuning to either Radio Luxembourg (6.09MHz if I remember correctly) and the World Service, primarily because they were reliable - the equivalent of testing your internet connection by going to the BBC website (which has only gone down once as far as I am aware and was a major news story) but also because using the HF transmitter of another aircraft is problematic in safety terms - you would have to set up an exclusion zone around the transmitting aircraft. Anyway, it was pretty much the height of the Cold War and I think that the Radio 4 test was something which was common knowledge though I never understood it to be a formal test - merely an indicator that if Radio 4 was off the air, something was possibly amiss and it seems to have been embellished into a juicy tale. It would not have been used as an isolated determination. That's just my opinion. That said, given that nuclear submarines could be operating anywhere in the world's oceans, I can't help thinking that the test would have been complicated by many factors.

Hi Lewis, I think your conclusion about this being an urban legend is probably correct. I remember hearing it in the 1990s (before the internet came along in the way we know it today). The version I heard didn't mention the Today programme specifically. It was just that submarines could check if 198kHz was still on air as part of their checks to see if the UK still existed with a functioning society or not. When we had the foot and mouth outbreak in 2001, 198kHz was on reduced power for what felt like months... engineers were physically not allowed to access the site, as I remember. If the transmission was being used for the purpose you described, I'm damn sure that the transmitter would have been back up to full power long before it was!

My dad was on the Vulcans, he didn’t mention how they would know that nuclear war had started but he did say that they regularly took off not knowing if it was live or just a training exercise and would get the all clear after about 5 minutes of flying towards the USSR… the advice they were given was that if it is real, don’t bother coming home after your mission as there won’t be one, they were told that everyone they knew would already be dead - (he believes that was how the chiefs would pretty much guarantee they’d retaliate and drop the Blue Steel missile), they were also told to keep flying east after dropping the bomb until they ran out of fuel as all Western Europe wouldn’t be habitable.

This Radio 4 story is one of the more hilarious things I've heard today. Fun story but I need a few more brews under my belt.

It was reported that this check was started when the Polaris deterrent became operational. I believe this method was used if all other technical means and military communications ceased to function as expected. It would be confirmative method in the absence of other means. During wartime, Radio 4 (the old Home Service) would be a vital means for the government to communicate with the population. So if it was not on the air by its various methods then the country would have been in serious trouble. Probably then the safe would have been opened. I wouldn't suggest for one moment that UK SSBN captains would only use this method exclusively as an indicator of the security state of the country.

As a youngster joining government service in 1979 I was told by an old hand how the police had arrived at his door on Christmas Eve because one of the network of emergency microwave transmitters had gone unserviceable. As he was ‘on call’, he was immediately escorted to the transmitting station and had to climb the mast in freezing and windy conditions to repair this vital link in the UK’s Civil Defence. It was only some time later that he discovered that the entire network had been superseded by new technology in a move kept so secret that no one in the maintenance organisation had been notified and the transmitter he repaired had been redundant for months.

11:17 the melodic inversion to the harmonic minor scale is very nice

I can tell you for a fact that this story isn’t true. I used to work at HMS Forest Moor as a radio operator and without saying anything I shouldn’t, we maintained the LF broadcast to the submarines on 10 channels and if the submarines lost this broadcast for more than 30 minutes they were instructed to open the “safe” and carry out their orders.

There's a podcast called "cold War conversations" they had a Polaris nuclear missile submarine commander on. They asked about this rumour and the commander confirmed it was rubbish. The signal men aboard listened to Radio4 as it was one of few stations they could listen to at periscope depth for entertainment only

Not sure if I saw it here, but apparently ELF was/is used to communicate with submarines at about 77Hz. An absense of signal just indicates a good time to come closer to the surface to pick up the VLF signal which can carry bandwidth. ELF can pentetrate down to 200m below sea level and part the antenna is actually the Earth itself in an area where the ground has high impedance (particular type of rocks etc). Sidenote: Some time ago I was staying in Bristol and I was lying awake in the middle of the night and I just remembered what I had heard years ago about the "Bristol Hum" that some people could hear. Sure enough, if I listened carefully I could hear a constant hum. I just never noticed it before but it is still audible to me in London, Netherlands but not in Norfolk. Now I noticed it I could hear it in the day also and I played a signal generator against it to find the freqency. I was surprised to find it was somewhere between 70Hz and 80Hz, not the 50 or 100Hz I was expecting if it was mains related. A few years later, I find out about the ELF transmissions. Based also on my recent experience with incredibly small E-field antennas that can pick up VLF to VHF, I am wondering if it is possible for any part of the human ear to pick up ELF radio. If the brain was stimulated, not the ear, then it probably woudn't be perceived as sound.

There's an important lesson here, that a counter strike might not be executed for a considerable length of time. They can do analysis, plan, and stalk their targets as necessary before releasing nuclear weapons.

The version I heard in the early 90s involved a tethered weather balloon, and an pretty bog standard LW radio using the tether as antenna, in the event of the sub's radio (and redundant backups) going down. I think the idea got traction due to the idea that the British Navy relied on improvisation and 'gumption' as much as it did high technology (some of it dating back to the rep the SOE had during WW2)

Fantastic production!! One of your best.

Love these vids. This stuff has fascinated me since childhood.

The whole idea of cold war safeguards is an interesting one. What I do know, because I work with the engineers, (system-x telephone exchanges) is that the speaking clock has a role to play in alerting of nuclear war. The idea being it was (is) a circuit constantly under test so wanting to use it and find it had failed wasn't a probability. I'm aware from a visit to Hack Green some years ago that there is or was active system-x equipment installed in the bunker as I witnessed a BT engineer working on the frame. While not radio related, the cold war was a serious business.

Brilliant as always Lewis 👍

Not sure about the submarines, but there is low speed data modulation encoded at 25Hz 50 symbols per second, onto the 198kHz carrier. As well as the time signals and instructions for Economy 7 (/10) meters, streetlights etc. there is a technical capability for many other channels of information. When I worked there in the late 70s, there was a nuclear shelter with a small studio within and there was also a beautiful 1930s radio studio on the northwest first-floor corner, complete with "apple and biscuit" 4021 microphones and cupboards full of acetate records. As for security, as the third man on night shift, I used to watch the CCTV and control gate access. The BBC Club in the back compound allowed for 24hr refreshment, so I was initially freaked out that we were being raided when a convoy of cop cars turned up in the early hours, but it turned out that they had come for a "refreshing" meal break. In the event of nuclear attack, the LF TX was to be the mainstay of the Wartime Broadcasting Service, being 13 miles from PAWN and 11 from Drakelow.

Back in the early 1960s my Dad, a GPO employee, was Clerk of Works for the building of a high-power VLF telegraphy transmitter on 16kHz at Anthorn in Cumbria. This site is now the home of the standard time transmission on 60 kHz. Although it was never stated as such, at least in my hearing, I understood that the 16kHz station was for communication with nuclear submarines.

My grandad was sent to Anthorn during WWII and it may of saved his life. When the aircraft carrier Eagle made its last port of call before setting sail for it last voyage into the Med and thus sunk, he was given orders to join another ship nobody had ever heard of. By this method it was how the then new station of Anthorn and its early purpose was kept secret. His speciality was to lead the team that was responsible for the fitting and testing of all the newest radio equipment to aircraft making his knowledge and expertise vital to its early advancement into what it has now become.

Really interesting video, thanks 👍🏻

Great video, Lewis, and I heartily agree. Cheers!

I love your content! Greetings from Pennsylvania USA

As a former Royal Navy submariner on Polaris boats, I can confirm that if comms failed or no communication was received, the captain would ask the radio shack to tune in yo Radio 4. if no broadcast was received from radio 4 the captain would follow his orders on the letter of final resort and attack in kind.

I worked down the road from these towers, it was at a NHS warehouse that dealt with special equipment, someone had mention this but never worked out if it was true

Urban myth. The timeline of the countdown to the BBC WTBS (Wartime Broadcasting Service) in the four versions I have of the BBC War Book - the manual for the setup and running of the WTBS, it specifically states that at A Hour (Announcement Hour) BBC radio, and from the 1970s, IBA (ILR) radio would broadcast a single service originated from the continuity studio of The Home Service/later Radio 4, WTBS tuning information for 30 minutes. This would be followed by 30 minutes of silence for transmitter switching and retuning (known as S - Switching hour - but it was only 30 minutes long). Then N (National) hour would start with the launch of the WTBS as a single service across the UK. WWTBS 2 was also planned from Wood Norton which was a single service on SW to outside the UK. TV would be a single service on both BBC and IBA showing the "Advising the Homeowner" Civil Defence films (1960s - 70s) and later, Protect and Survive (1980s/90s) then shut down at N Hour. LW radio would broadcast audio versions on the TV CD films until N Hour or, as the War Book states " as long as practical" then shut down at N Hour. The idea was 1. To avoid confusion for the listener as to what service to tune to 2. Ease BBC resources. 3 Prolong the life of the listeners radio batteries by only broadcasting a single service as announcements at set times. 4. Droitwich would, most likely, at best, be a heap of metal on the ground, so why waste resources on it?

thanks Lewis, love thi content!

Thank you for another outstanding post. I love all things spycraft and this video makes me think.

With more precisely synchronized atomic clocks and digital spread-spectrum coded transmissions and more selective receivers, VLF can work deeper than before, because the signals can be much further below the noise floor and still be detected by a statistically-significant presence/absence of RF energy at very specific frequencies and time slots. Also the newest VLF antenna technology uses acoustic resonance of piezoelectric materials at VLF frequencies to keep the antenna size down and efficiency higher. This might soon be a big game changer.

Excellent topic, I pass Anthorn and Skelton quite regularly when vising family. By the way, I LOVE your Lincolnshire Poacher outro music. Haunting or what???!

QI the TV panel show stated the Prime Ministers driver had to always carry 4d (4 old pennies) to make a phone call, if the 4 minute warning of a nuclear strike had been heard on the radio so he could give the command to retaliate if he was on the road, If Macmillan was killed, two other senior ministers were given the power to authorise the deployment of the RAF's V-bombers - named as 'First Gravedigger' and 'Second Gravedigger'.

Great research and very informative. Keep up the hard work Lewis

There is a grain of truth, on a visit as a Civilian Instructor with my local ATC Squadron, we were at BBC radio Sheffield. One item of interest was a master transmission relay cabinet, in the event of a nuclear warning being issued all BBC stations would automatically switch to the output of radio four.

Very good video thanks. 👍

I knew about Rugby way back in the 60's as I had an uncle who worked there and liked to tell us boys a few top secret things.

Great production

Great video. Let's hope and pray that nuclear was never happens.

There also used to be a VLF submarine signalling site at Forest Moor literally over the road from RAF (US) Menwith Hill in North Yorkshire.

Nice use of Lincolnshire Poacher for the end theme!

Being a retired Submariner on RN ballistic missle submarines, the captains generally liked the BBC World Service. Maybe he liked the quality of the news reports.

Thanks for answering my question

0:34 Boy, that escalated quickly. I mean, that really got out of hand fast.

Interesting BUT the last 2 videos you made from Devon BOTH was at sights that had a ROC Post (I only commented on one but have checked they both did have) An ROC Post is an underground nuclear look out post, now as far as I know they did not use radio just a telephone line to phone in on the event of an explosion that they detected. They are about 20 miles apart often near ordnance survey triangulation points and near a phone line in fact the cut off telegraph pole often makes them easy to find. Great video and Im sure when you reach the 100k subscribers your be giving a long wave radio away just incase ! lol

Loved the Lincolnshire poacher at the end * wink *

I heard that too. With a tx station close by at Inskip being the mainstay of comms for submarines along with a relay at Barrow. There was a lot of odd goings on during the cold war, Having being active during those times a lot of comms info was passed around.

This was really interesting

Worthwhile pointing out that other elements of Peter Hennessy's book, based on "private information" have subsequently been confirmed - including the four pennies anecdote. This seems to have been one, and only one, of a suite of measures, and was only to be observed if there was no other possibility of communication. I suspect there is something in it, but its use was probably quite brief and relatively informal.

Great video mate👍👍👍 when you name the transmission sites and say they broadcast on a frequency, what would they sound like? Is it like morse code?

Used to get CW breakthrough on my little microlight aircrafts VHF radio when flying over RNS Inskip at around 2000ft...this would have been around 2006-7 I used to use Inskip as a Nav waypoint.....there where no restriction on doing so.

It could work the other way around. I.e. you can't detect communication from any of the standard military sources, but before you blow everything up you can check if Radio 4 is still broadcasting live material?

Epic videos.

Thanks again Lewis. Spot on as usual. I've been round Droitwitch while studying at Wood Norton and had a friend who worked at Skelton that AFAIK at the time (about 1990) was only a BBCWS tx site; you live and learn. A trip around Inskip while studying at Northern Counties Radio School in Preston was the first time I saw an RF spectrum analyser in about 1977! Your content is always accurate and fascinating. It must take days to pull all this together! It's very much appreciated. Thank you.

But, maybe Droitwich appears insecure to deflect interest in the site 😂

0:34 - lol, great editting! someone has been watching Oppenheimer.

Excellent story-telling Lewis - and nice to see the nuclear 'angle' on BBC R4 LW, debunked! 73 Clint

As well as the Radio 4 documentary there's a Radio 4 comedy /drama on the Letters of Last Resort available on RU-vid. It's a radio play featuring an incoming female PM. This fictional PM seems so determined to avoid the issue I almost wanted to shake her. I mean, if you suddenly became Prime Minister wouldn't your first priority be to explore the secret passages and find out as much top secret stuff as possible? I mean James Bond type stuff, not classified Excel documents!! I would have thought, by the way, that if the British Government did get destroyed in a nuclear holocaust, the King would automatically become leader (assuming the King somehow survived)...

About 15 years ago, i had a satellite radio for a few years, I used to listen to Sarah Cox all the time on Radio 1. I love all that "Britishness" stuff! 😊

In wartime, normal broadcasting would have been suspended and the Wartime Broadcasting Service would have taken over. It would have been run by the BBC from Wood Norton. Additionally, regional government bunkers were also equipped with BBC studios. Therefore, the Today programme and BBC Radio Four would have been suspended for the duration of the war.

It's amazing what some people will believe....

Radio 4 has always been in charge of the UK's nuclear fleet, its the only radio allowed and it helps to keep the crew braindead and calm. It's well known in some parts.

It’s interesting reading these comments having been a comms engineer on a bomber

As a radio ham, I would love to get into experiments with VLF. I understand you can obtain an NOV for this? I shall have to look into it. I own a few acres of rural land, so could possibly rig up a (temporary) antenna!

I think the BBC World Service signal could be used as a check.

Have to wonder if a solar flare or other jamming/ blocking situation could naturally or accidentally simulate condition of the signal not being detected.

Can you do more on VLF / ULF? I find it highly interesting!

I've long thought there is something very suspicious about 'Sailing By'. Sailing By is the music played every night at 12.46am on BBC Radio 4 to herald the reading of the late-night Shipping Forecast, It is a short piece of light music composed by Ronald Binge in 1963. A slow waltz, the piece uses a repetitive ABCAB structure and a distinctive rising and falling woodwind arpeggio. Is it operating as a subtle form of numbers station?

Some surface ships in the US Navy carry VLF radios, I would assume that your ships in the UK, would carry them as well thus enabling more reliable relays, for communicating, orders.

I agree if The Archers did not indeed come on then clearly civilisation as we know would be at an end and the earth would be forever a cold and barren wasteland with only Gardeners World left to keep the foul beasts of the night at bay and provide us with comfort and hope that tomorrow will be a better day. Thoughts and prayers.

Such a fascinating video, Lewis! Was completely unaware of this urban legend (though, living in Australia might've played a part in that), but it's such a compelling idea to consider. Really well explained, and a totally engrossing presentation. Regarding underwater communications, particularly with submarines and submersibles, etc., have you ever encountered the deployment or proposal of communication using time reversal acoustics? It's such an elegant physical concept; I reckon you'd get a kick out of it, even though it's not radio. (Must declare my bias, as I'm working on my MPhil in the field. Haha 😜) Keep up the brilliant work!

Very interesting

A valve failure could have caused an interesting panic. I love the end part of the second letter. I know that it was used for coded transmissions during WW2.

Can you do a video on Jim Creek VLF Naval radio station?

In honesty the silent service are the most tight lipped group of our armed forces I've ever met. They don't even tell people in their family what they do and what they have done.

You could hear GBZ at Rugby keying as the it was a CW transmission of 16KHz and the transmitter vibrated in the audio range.

I don’t know which transmitter was used, but I was watching a documentary that followed a UK submarine and the captain mentioned if he didn’t get orders during a crucial time, aka tense period, if he never got orders for a period of time, then they would tune in the radio, no radio = open the box that has a paper with 4 different options to choose from, attack, return to a nato base, and 2 other things.

I've received BBC-R4 once on 198khz from here in NSW Australia

I think all sub commanders would be notified of 'Missiles in flight' before impact and before BBC Radio 4 ever stopped transmitting. Also since it was a strain for Rugby to reach HMS Conqueror during the the Falklands War (Conflict) would they even have been able to receive BBC Radio 4? What is the World Service transmitted it and relayed from Ascension Island. On the island and on the beach it almost is the World Service on your teeth fillings (from memory a cassette record switched off would pick up some of it).

I'd love for you to a more in-depth video on inskip.

There used to be Criggion VLF Station in Wales. That was on 19.2kHz. A went there a few times years ago when I worked at British Telecom.

The Radio 4 teleswitching service can handle 15 different "applications". There were 12 regional electricity boards at the time, plus maybe one, or two, for EA flood warnings. It was rumoured that the last application block was reserved for RN, but I've never been able to confirm that. Having said that...! It should be noted that the "strategic broadcast" is carried on multiple bearers including LF, HF and satellite 24/7, 365.25 days a year. Messages are transmitted at regular intervals and all have the same length, whether or not there is anything to send - this ensures that an adversary cannot learn anything from the frequency or length of the signals. If a submarine cannot receive the LF broadcast, it might come near to the surface to try for HF, then satellite, then other means (there are more!). Radio 4 would be a long way down the list. [Nearly all of this I gleaned from Babcock promotional material.]

If Droitwich was/is used for this purpose it would have been one of several signals, includingbyhe VLF stations mentioned. If a secondary antenn, such as the tethered weather balloon were used for both VLF and LW checks that would overcome yhe issue of a primary comms failure aboard. I am sure that the signals monitored etc have changed many times over the years. As for security, if it is just one it is likely to be the lowest priority. We might have noticed an increase in security if the Government thought the chances of a nuclear strike were likely. This is now all academic considering the transmitter will be switched off in less than 6 months.

Very interesting Lewis. Love this series about radio and transmitting sites.

Then you've got the handel system, the speaking clock circuit and how the wrong frequency played down this audio line could set off automated air raid sirens

Most people on the inside will never divulge what they know, just like station x staff who, even after much info was released still refused to talk about their work.

I wonder if allied command would include Canada. I know where I live in Nova Scotia we have several naval transmission stations very similar looking to the ones you have shown here. I could post locations and get your opinion on them if you like.

It would be interesting to flip this idea. If the sub wasn't receiving any signal other than Radio 4

Talk about *_"Going out with a BANG."_*

How long is LW due to continue for? At least for radio 4. 5 live and talksport I can take or leave tbh

Used to be the shipping for ast for MI6 I know that for sure .

Thanks for an interesting video. I read Hennessy's book a while ago, and wasn't too sure about that story. Love the Lincolnshire Poacher at the end, nice touch!

amazing outro song

FWIW, my father once told me he successfully tuned R4 on 198 LW from a Boeing 747 whilst flying over Brazil.

My grandad use to work on the transmitters in Cumbria

good video. would be interesting if we later found out that Radio 4 was the untilmate numbers station. i.e. the Archers on air indicated that all was good but if this schedulled program wasnt shown....... nuke time baby

They can just phone them up at the moment, amazingly ALL our nuclear submarines are all stuck in port for extended maintenance. Some of them have been sitting there waiting to be worked on for over 6 months. .Just for good measure, both our aircraft carriers are also stuck in port with knackered engines and the F35 jets are all grounded in case they go into zombie mode. Don't tell the Russians.

i havent watched the video yet but that title is crazy 😂

I recall this story being discussed on the Today program , possibly by someone ex-MOD, but possibly someone repeating the story because they don't know any better. For what it's worth I imagine that checking civilian radios if possible would be part of a multi layered check before launching nuclear missiles to prevent mistakes.