Does Consciousness Extend Beyond Brains? The 2023 Holberg Debate, feat. Seth, Luhrmann, Sheldrake. 

"True consciousness is achieved when the act of causing harm, even to the smallest creature, pains you."

“Wisdom tells me I am nothing. Love tells me I am everything. Between the two my life flows” - Nisargadatta Maharaj

It's always a good day when Rupert Sheldrake pops up in your playlist

A year ago I went 5 times. to a pain management clinic for my multiple sclerosis’ pain and depression. I was given ketamine for 5 sessions. It was unfortunately a temporary success for pain and depression but I had the most worthwhile spiritual experience! I was comforted to understand the various dimensions of life and consciousness.

“How things seem is not a good explanation of how things are”

Even though it's a debate I find it really relaxing which seems counter intuitive to what I'd expect from a debate. Goes to show how todays program always makes us think people have to be loud and yell at each other. Thank goodness we can hear everyone speak and find each point of view interesting enough to give it some air to ponder.

1:25:28 - If it turns out that space-time is a brain made UI the inside-outside distinction might be a lot more complicated and at that point you'd need to consider more that a conscious being is, with Karl Friston's theory, a bundle of Markov blanketed sectors where what we experience as 'us' is a particularly Markov bundle that distinguishes our subjectivity from our experience of the outside / objective world, but the question is whether that Markov blanket exists within us and whether we're ultimately rendering (ourselves) something really complicated into the appearance of Baryonic matter.

I had dreams of being in a building or outside of one, and in my mind I am familiar with interior and what is on each floor, and even behind the building, and around the corner down the street. I have visual recall of these aspects and details of the environment. I also know the people, their names and remember what we talked about two or three days ago, but when I wake up, I have no idea of who and where I was. In the dream, I knew specifics like room #s, and locker key combinations, and I also know if I have 2 minutes or 10 minutes to get where I am going and I feel the urgency to get there. When I wake up, just 2 seconds later, there is no reference for anything I was just deeply involved in. I try to recall the place, people and details, but nothing. I think I am living a different life in my sleep. I feel that I am the same person in the dream, but recalling memories from a different life. When I am thinking in the dream, the relevant ideas and information to the present moment or circumstance are fresh and readily available in memory, as if I am accessing an established way of thinking and believing, I am not familiar with when I awaken.

The problem with using anesthesia as evidence of oblivion, is that there is no way to rule out the possibility of a rich experience during anesthesia that is not stored in the memory of the brain. It could be that anesthesia shuts off biological memory, such that when one comes to it seems as if there was only oblivion. Imagine a computer running but nothing gets saved, the computer will by definition not recognize any of the states it was in when the memory was shut off, but it was still running.

tHANK YOU PHENOMENICAL WEBINAR!

I was comatose following a motorcycle accident in 1985 I was diagnosed as being comatose following a motorcycle accident. That is how I appeared to the medical staff anyway. However I was very busy at the time with some intense activities. I was floating in a black void like being in a womb not like outer space. It was very comforting and I still recollect every emotion I felt and everything I saw while I was "gone". I spontaneously returned while the doctors where rounding and I heard them speaking with the nurse and my wife. They said there had been no change with sadness in their voices. I however felt 3 things in rapid succession even though I had broken my pelvis, neck, right clavicle, upper arm both sides and left leg. 1) So disappointed in having to come back 2) Why is everyone so worried about me. I'll be fine 3) I know something you all don't and it's fantastic. Four months later my wife died in childbirth. Make of my story what you will.

I feel seth took up way too much time talking, he didn't really give anyone else a chance to speak, I would have rather listened to Luhrmann and Sheldrake speak more...

I was drawn to this debate specifically because 13 years ago it was discovered that I was having seizures. After unsuccessfully trialing 13 anti-epileptic drugs, I had my entire right temporal lobe removed. I was 51 years old. The world is no longer what I knew it to be, leading to much questioning of all reality. My experience of living on this planet is now ENTIRELY different... It was rather horrifying to hear the statement that brain is overrated! I wish I'd understood and valued my brain more than I did. That being said, while my ability to function as I once did has been significantly compromised, I don't believe the brain surgery has reduced my "consciousness". In fact, I feel that I am more conscious and aware! Myself, my thoughts, functioning, light, sound, smells, sensations, the energies from outside sources, nuances, and my surroundings tend to be entirely overwhelming. I often feel TOO conscious... That being said, I am intrigued by the research and depth of thought and ideas presented here. I too will continue to explore brain function, consciousness, etc. from my own experience and perspective. Thank you for sharing this debate!

Obviously. Hence vibes, animal sensing, presence in and beyond dreams, imagination projecting into space and time etc.

I experience a shift in conscientiousness when I became emotional about an answer to a question I needed and the person I needed to ask physically emerged in my surrounding, even though he was in a different state, after I experienced that, I called him and I asked him if he gave me the answer to the question I was thinking about when we were together, in person, and he hesitated before saying no, so I didn't bring up the experience I just encountered but later in that day I wondered why he hesitated before answering the question, maybe he also had an experience in that moment but even if he did I don't think he would have excepted it because he practice ministry

Very lively debate and a very diverse field of study. I spent a few years of my life trying to quantify consciousness for the purposes of determining how much anaesthetic should be given to a patient in order to safely keep them unconscious. This debate touched on this subject and a few other related subjects. Anil Seth very skillfully side stepped how consciousness originates and assumed that consciousness only resides within the physical confines of the human brain (Tanya Luhrmann was a little more philosophical about this). Instead they both focused on the physical aspects of consciousness, which are all that any scientist can measure. This is a totally rational way to think, based on the scant information we currently poses on this topic. These physical aspects, give us absolutely no clues as to the nature of human consciousness and its origins. Debates of this kind tend to become very philosophical and go around in circles as one is left to speculate because of the fundamental lack of information. Rupert Sheldrake seemed to me to be a lot more open minded on whether consciousness can extend outside of the human brain and even though he's considered as something of a maverick and heretic by many of his (biologically minded) peers, I like his open mindedness and some of his ideas, which leaves the door open for new ideas. Work on machine consciousness has been progressing for many years. There are various schools of thought on how to give machines self awareness. The problem has been that the predominant school of thought was that consciousness would be achieved by increasing the complexity of the artificial neural networks used to build AI. But with gigantic leaps in the computing power of these artificial neural networks, self awareness akin to human consciousness has not been achieved. So most probably, brain complexity is not the origin of human consciousness. The work of Physicist Roger Penrose and Neuroscientist Stuart Hameroff on human consciousness adds a quantum component to the workings of the human brain, by way of the nano-tubules found within brain cells. This seems to suggest that consciousness could originate from quantum interactions within brain cells. Quantum entanglement of subatomic particles has shown us that space-time is non-local. If this hypothesis of consciousness holds true, it could also lead us to the conclusion that consciousness can reside outside of the human brain. Again, this is hypothetical. There are many other schools of thought on this issue. One hypothesis pointed to by string theory is that we could be living inside a black hole, in which case we could be living inside a 2D hologram which feels and looks like a 3D universe. The interesting thing about holograms is that each element which makes up the hologram contains all of the information contained in the entire hologram. If that's the case then our consciousness might be contained in the tiniest elements which make up this universe ......... pure speculation, but again, we're in the realms of pure philosophy here. The simulation hypothesis is another, where we could be living inside a huge computer simulation, in which case non of what we experience is real and that anything is possible within the bounds of the computer simulation. Or, we could all be parts of some massive universal consciousness which connects everything and could mean that our consciousness does not reside within our physical brain. Such a theory of mind could also tie in with emerging physics hypotheses of consciousness and information theory, where information itself has mass and therefore energy, and that consciousness could be more fundamental than either energy or matter. Again hypothetical, but possibly mathematically provable ? or disprovable ..... The questions these scientists and others are asking are as fundamental as the questions about creation of the universe and life itself. These are the deep questions we have asked for thousands of years, and could take thousands more years to truly answer, if at all..... They will not be answered by biologists. The answers will come by integrating fields such as physics, mathematics, biology and chemistry. Each science describes one small piece of the puzzle.

"Character IS destiny," Aristotle. E.g. the play "Oedipus Rex" that he so admired as exemplifying that observation.

I wish there was a debate with consciousness and Dementia…..

Silmutaneous lives and or bi location needs to be discussed. Also along with this Dream Time and visiting other timelines and potential futures.

I genuinely believe that this subject cannot be fully investigated without seeing the problem from alternate angles. So - in the way that neurologists mapped functions within areas of the brain by studying brain damaged individuals than then lose very specific abilities based on the area that was damaged. It was very surprising to see that things we take for granted as part of the human experience that you wouldn't realise had a specific area for - such as face recognition, seeing edges - even detecting movement changes within a scene (if you lose this ability and you're at a train station, the train would just 'appear', you wouldn't see it pull into the station). Also, in a similar way that the structure of DNA was discovered by shining X-Rays through it and observing the shadow - what I'm trying to say, is that, by altering your consciousness, it could cast a 'shadow' of the shape and workings of it. Therefore, drugs that affect consciousness, especially psychedelics - would make a huge impact in learning about the workings of the self, the ego and consciousness and awareness. Designing specific drugs for altering the consciousness in specific ways could be used for investigative purposes. If you're aware of Alexander Shulgin and his books - 'PIHKAL' and 'TIHKAL' (amazing story and person) over the course of 20-30 years, he *legally* invented thousands of new psychedelic drugs and tested them all on himself. In support of this approach, I can say that anyone who has experienced the true 'mystical' or an extreme result from a psychedelic experience have experienced states that defy words and logic. We are not seeing the universe as it truly is, we have only evolved to cope with the model we are given. But there is so much more going on than we will ever be aware of. If you have experienced true 'ego death' - having your sense of self completely dissolved. You don't even need drugs. Long term meditation/Buddhists strive for those moments. You become one with everything and the walls or the bubble that 'you' live inside, disappears. The psychedelic experience is very similar to a deep meditative state.

"Life will offer you a diminishing number of opportunities to show how smart you are. It will offer an infinite number of occasions that require kindness, mercy, grace, sensitivity, sympathy, generosity and love. Life will require that you widen your repertoire of emotions, that you throw yourself headlong into other people. That you take the curriculum of intimacy. If you haven't mastered it yet, I ask you to turn to this task intentionally now." - David Brooks

This was my first experience of Luhrman, and I much appreciated her summary that the essence of consciousness lies in our relationship with external 'others', which seems to fit well with Sheldrake's emphasis on the interconnectedness of self-organising systems and also Anil's refutation of the idea the brain is 'merely' an information-processing system. However, I found the discussion on information-processing moved on a bit too quickly and dismissively; there is much explanatory power in Karl Friston's work that seems to me to have great value, even though I agree that information processing is not the whole story. Malone did a fabulous job of holding the space for a creative tension in the debate, and it was a pleasure to experience his style of inquiry again (I hope he will be making another of his wonderful films soon). My own curiosity has settled recently on the related and emerging area of inquiry labeled as "enactive cognition" and it would be wonderful to see a future debate bringing these ideas into tension with those of enactivists like Di Paolo and Thompson, plus phenomenological insights from the likes of Maclaren and Callard. I share Anil's frustration with Silicon Valley's pursuit of technology such as AI regardless of the ethics, also seemingly with scant regard for the dangers of their move-fast-and-break-things approach. On a positive note, my limited exposure to the AI community at least comforts me that they are an extremely curious and deep-thinking community. The problem, it seems to me, is the lack of transparency on the part of tech firms that don't share their research data with public academics; more patient science is needed to inform the work of these clever engineers and developers. My fear is not of the technology so much as its financial backers, and the profit- and power-oriented goals that most tech leaders are pursuing. For all the early talk of not wanting to repeat the mistakes of social media platforms, some vocal segments of AI culture seem to have confabulated their way towards justifying any innovation on the grounds of its 'great potential' for humanity - here we go again...

The brain is not completely off under general anaesthesia. General anaesthesia makes the subject completely unconscious of their body and the outside world. It prevents memories from forming and being registered in the brain. It prevents bodily movement. It also diminishes neurovegetative activity. A common mistake is this: people think that general anaesthesia makes consciousness cease to exist. It is not entirely true. General anaesthesia induces complete amnesia (as well as paralysis). You did not cease to be conscious when you were put under, you just did not record anything that happened in your memory. When you woke up, you simply didn't remember that you were conscious all through the operation. Memory of being conscious isn't the same as consciousness itself. You can have been conscious (at the time) of things that you've now completely forgotten.

Great to hear Prof. Luhrmann echo my own experiences that (millions of) others have had. That the voices of spirit are short and positive.

I wished I head been there!!!! Superb!!!!

I find that applications for listening to music and turning into text of the various characters is a good tool for the wavelength that breaking down of verbal communication to text messages and mathematical placement of numbers to to the vibration is great tools for the wavelength dimensional placement has similar effects to understand the difference between each one the resonances of the universe itself is a Tallow of vibrations and massive amounts of magnetic flowing fields and in between each one is different pulses of a single spacescape

Loved your podcast…very enlightening! Thank you SO much. God bless you, and more power to you!

Consciousness is when we all come home to our collective soul and know that we are all one

A segment from 'Saved by the Light of the Buddha Within'... My new understandings of what many call 'God -The Holy Spirit' - resulting from some of the extraordinary ongoing after-effects relating to my NDE... Myoho-Renge-Kyo represents the identity of what some scientists are now referring to as the unified field of consciousnesses. In other words, it’s the essence of all existence and non-existence - the ultimate creative force behind planets, stars, nebulae, people, animals, trees, fish, birds, and all phenomena, manifest or latent. All matter and intelligence are simply waves or ripples manifesting to and from this core source. Consciousness (enlightenment) is itself the actual creator of everything that exists now, ever existed in the past, or will exist in the future - right down to the minutest particles of dust - each being an individual ripple or wave. The big difference between chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo and most other conventional prayers is that instead of depending on a ‘middleman’ to connect us to our state of inner enlightenment, we’re able to do it ourselves. That’s because chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo allows us to tap directly into our enlightened state by way of this self-produced sound vibration. ‘Who or What Is God?’ If we compare the concept of God being a separate entity that is forever watching down on us, to the teachings of Nichiren, it makes more sense to me that the true omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence of what most people perceive to be God, is the fantastic state of enlightenment that exists within each of us. Some say that God is an entity that’s beyond physical matter - I think that the vast amount of information continuously being conveyed via electromagnetic waves in today’s world gives us proof of how an invisible state of God could indeed exist. For example, it’s now widely known that specific data relayed by way of electromagnetic waves has the potential to help bring about extraordinary and powerful effects - including an instant global awareness of something or a mass emotional reaction. It’s also common knowledge that these invisible waves can easily be used to detonate a bomb or to enable NASA to control the movements of a robot as far away as the Moon or Mars - none of which is possible without a receiver to decode the information that’s being transmitted. Without the receiver, the data would remain impotent. In a very similar way, we need to have our own ‘receiver’ switched on so that we can activate a clear and precise understanding of our own life, all other life and what everything else in existence is. Chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo each day helps us to achieve this because it allows us to reach the core of our enlightenment and keep it switched on. That’s because Myoho-Renge-Kyo represents the identity of what scientists now refer to as the unified field of consciousnesses. To break it down - Myoho represents the Law of manifestation and latency (Nature) and consists of two alternating states. For example, the state of Myo is where everything in life that’s not obvious to us exists - including our stored memories when we’re not thinking about them - our hidden potential and inner emotions whenever they’re dormant - our desires, our fears, our wisdom, happiness, karma - and more importantly, our enlightenment. The other state, ho, is where everything in Life exists whenever it becomes evident to us, such as when a thought pops up from within our memory - whenever we experience or express our emotions - or whenever a good or bad cause manifests as an effect from our karma. When anything becomes apparent, it merely means that it’s come out of the state of Myo (dormancy/latency) and into a state of ho (manifestation). It’s the difference between consciousness and unconsciousness, being awake or asleep, or knowing and not knowing. The second law - Renge - Ren meaning cause and ge meaning effect, governs and controls the functions of Myoho - these two laws of Myoho and Renge, not only function together simultaneously but also underlies all spiritual and physical existence. The final and third part of the tri-combination - Kyo, is the Law that allows Myoho to integrate with Renge - or vice versa. It’s the great, invisible thread of energy that fuses and connects all Life and matter - as well as the past, present and future. It’s also sometimes termed the Universal Law of Communication - perhaps it could even be compared with the string theory that many scientists now suspect exists. Just as the cells in our body, our thoughts, feelings and everything else is continually fluctuating within us - all that exists in the world around us and beyond is also in a constant state of flux - constantly controlled by these three fundamental laws. In fact, more things are going back and forth between the two states of Myo and ho in a single moment than it would ever be possible to calculate or describe. And it doesn’t matter how big or small, famous or trivial anything or anyone may appear to be, everything that’s ever existed in the past, exists now or will exist in the future, exists only because of the workings of the Laws ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’ - the basis of the four fundamental forces, and if they didn’t function, neither we nor anything else could go on existing. That’s because all forms of existence, including the seasons, day, night, birth, death and so on, are moving forward in an ongoing flow of continuation - rhythmically reverting back and forth between the two fundamental states of Myo and ho in absolute accordance with Renge - and by way of Kyo. Even stars are dying and being reborn under the workings of what the combination ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’ represents. Nam, or Namu - which mean the same thing, are vibrational passwords or keys that allow us to reach deep into our life and fuse with or become one with ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’. On a more personal level, nothing ever happens by chance or coincidence, it’s the causes that we’ve made in our past, or are presently making, that determine how these laws function uniquely in each of our lives - as well as the environment from moment to moment. By facing east, in harmony with the direction that the Earth is spinning, and chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo for a minimum of, let’s say, ten minutes daily to start with, any of us can experience actual proof of its positive effects in our lives - even if it only makes us feel good on the inside, there will be a definite positive effect. That’s because we’re able to pierce through the thickest layers of our karma and activate our inherent Buddha Nature (our enlightened state). By so doing, we’re then able to bring forth the wisdom and good fortune that we need to challenge, overcome and change our adverse circumstances - turn them into positive ones - or manifest and gain even greater fulfilment in our daily lives from our accumulated good karma. This also allows us to bring forth the wisdom that can free us from the ignorance and stupidity that’s preventing us from accepting and being proud of the person that we indeed are - regardless of our race, colour, gender or sexuality. We’re also able to see and understand our circumstances and the environment far more clearly, as well as attract and connect with any needed external beneficial forces and situations. As I’ve already mentioned, everything is subject to the law of Cause and Effect - the ‘actual-proof-strength’ resulting from chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo always depends on our determination, sincerity and dedication. For example, the levels of difference could be compared to making a sound on a piano, creating a melody, producing a great song, and so on. Something else that’s very important to always respect and acknowledge is that the Law (or if you prefer God) is in everyone and everything. NB: There are frightening and disturbing sounds, and there are tranquil and relaxing sounds. It’s the emotional result of any noise or sound that can trigger off a mood or even instantly change one. When chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo each day, we are producing a sound vibration that’s the password to our true inner-self - this soon becomes apparent when you start reassessing your views on various things - such as your fears and desires etc. The best way to get the desired result when chanting is not to view things conventionally - rather than reaching out to an external source, we need to reach into our own lives and bring our needs and desires to fruition from within - including the good fortune and strength to achieve any help that we may need. Chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo also reaches out externally and draws us towards, or draws towards us, what we need to make us happy from our environment. For example, it helps us to be in the right place at the right time - to make better choices and decisions and so forth. We need to think of it as a seed within us that we’re watering and bringing sunshine to for it to grow, blossom and bring forth fruit or flowers. It’s also important to understand that everything we need in life, including the answer to every question and the potential to achieve every dream, already exists within us.

These,discussions are crucial ! As even tthough it is taught by academia the mind is simply a machine that can be quantified the true state of science reveals thought is( at this time) a unquantifiable manifestation.

Short answer: yes, of course it does. Even unicellular organisms have some modicum of consciousness to them. The more complex the organism's biological structure, the more complex the degree of conscious expression in the material.

Tanya is impressive. She is taking this all in and is not concluding anything beyond what she can confirm. And yet does not claim to know everything. This is the true scientist brain. We need more of her.

Modern research on Near Death Experience by Raymond moody, reincarnation memories by Ian Stevenson/Jim trucker and past lives regression by Brian Weiss all independently but coincidentally show that our consciousness survive death, we live many lives and our thoughts and actions matter in the hereafter. So be kind and helpful to others, be virtuous, meditate and cultivate ourselves to higher spiritual levels. Cheers.

28:10 Consciousness I'll leave my last words for the poet Emily Dickinson who in a 28:15 beautiful 1862 poem wrote the brain is wider than the sky for put them side by 28:24 side the one the other will contain with ease and you 28:29 besides

MC-Theory of everything will explain everything from conscious level and unites everything small and large in our Universe and consciousness

As to self-organization. The key word is self and you are one, at core a personal identity as that term was used by David Hume. Is life organized by self? Or is matter self-organizing? And a demonstration from either camp is over due.

Rather than extending the mind,I prefer considering that we have more than the most obvious 5 senses. In the days of telegrams, my prorperty was farmed by a woman (with husband) whose identical sister lived in another province. She felt her sister's death before receiving a telegram. The direct gaze is stronger than the periferal gaze. I once accidentally established a line of force with a direct look at a lady. I was able to break it by looking away. On looking back, it reset and I could see that she had no control was terrified. So,I looked away.

Thanks so much. I found this fascinating. It makes me think about quantum entanglement.

great stuff

Thought Is part of the early programming. A rehearsal of commands relating to YOU - ( singularily) as the subject. These tracks or commands as the panelist suggests, is the early programs laid down in early childhood that the theta brained child absorbs in trance as a fact or suggestion to follow in life. Like “ what should I wear”, as if it were the outmost of importance. Like the yogis say -“ we are the dreaming ( current action or verbing) of the dream.

As someone who’s been fully conscious outside of my body, I say yes. However I have no evidence, aside from the witness with me who I told what we would see ahead, where we would see it, and how we would see it.

I'm reading Being You, and have added Sheldrake and Lurhman to my reading list as well. Just wanted to stop by to say how much I loved this video, that I have it on repeat. I feel so many people would benefit from hearing more about the areas where these three perspectives, come close to meeting or overlapping. Please do more!

Yes.

I wish Norman Doidge or another expert on brain plasticity would have been part of the panel discussion. I think it would have changed the trajectory of the discussion in a very interesting way.

This moderator did an extraordinary job!

1:27:34 “people talk differently” That sentence really aligns with me.

I will never forget the last time I had anesthesia. I woke up smiling. I was mad that I was interrupted and felt great. I couldn’t remember anything but I knew that it was wonderful….

… as a German Biologist - From first Semester in Biology and Chemistry I was stunned by the in Flux of Concepts I never could imagine In my view - the nervous system of all organisms is a sort of radio receiver Sort of Cosmic GPS Atoms and Molecules set like in a crystal Structure field All we have today Came from Ideas And now We kill that With dumbifications of technology We may have past our PEAK …

Thank you Bergen/Holberg Prize, Seth, Luhrman & Sheldrake, for this excellent and fascinating discussion; that for me among other things, serves to confirm Thomas Berry's 7th principle for a functional cosmology ie; 'The human is that being in whom the universe activates, reflects upon, and celebrates itself in conscious self awareness'.

Wow this video is popping off. I would've never thought that when I sat in the live audience :D This debate is the first of its kind hosted by a mainstream university (as far as I know and as said by Rupert), which could be a sign that times are changing. I recommend videos from the Essentia Foundation if you're interested in these kinds of topics.

Anil Seth boldly maintains (1hr 15min 30sec +) that under general anaesthetic we are in a state of total oblivion. Yet records abound with huge numbers of awareness - frequently during "near death" episodes - of patients viewing the operation from above and eavesdropping on the conversations of the medical staff. My own case is limited to teenage tooth extraction in which, while perception was largely dark and empty there was absolutely no doubt that my mind was in existence

On order for me to see, touch, and feel this cup of tea in front of me requires a lot of quantum entanglement

It is extremely important to ask what general anasthesia and surgery do to the nature of consciousness in the body. There is a definite effect that causes people who've had surgery to be extremely objective, even when they dont want to be so objective

Amazing!

I visualize this as the ability to tap into a river of light and energy from our universes creation like a stream, being able to jump like a small fish, from person to person, and forward and backward in time.

What a beautiful conversation. I like the respect shown by all three participants, despite their differing, but very studied, points of view. All three speakers have given me a lot to reflect on in this matter. Thank you.

I went under general anesthesia for surgery, my experience didn't stop. one moment I'm on the operating table, the next I'm on the beach in China at night time watching the waves. It was very peaceful, but I didn't disappear. Maybe some people just don't remember what they do under anesthesia

Beautiful…..Thank You …. Interesting……🌞

This was great! The one philosophical point that jumped out at me near the end was in the discussion of AI gaining consciousness...if it became conscious we would have to change our behavior toward it and treat the machine differently...doesn't that imply connected consciousness and an unwillingness (or moral obligation) to not damage that connection? It's still just a machine, but now it is more than just a material part of all of us and must be treated as such.

I don't know if consciousness extends beyond the brain, but something does. My life experiences have shown me this.

I may change the question slightly! "Can consciousness extent beyond Biological beings?"

During a dream I had not to long ago I got conscious. It was crystal clear to me that everything I was experiencing was within me and solo created by me. Waking up my thoughts went to the universal oneness, none duality and so. Am I still dreaming? 🤷🏾

the lady is speaking all about what I used to call being a sensitive, just focusing your mind a little you can see people heath by the color of their aura. I now try and avoid this stuff as it never seems to end well, but i have been everywhere. today I visualize consciousness as two journeys, one to life until birth then a journey to death. this all begins with the first journey.

E= mc^2= Q(sentience), I learned also that thought is faster than the speed of light. I learned that this reality we experience as a human is an illusion - I was shown a halographic universe held by the intention of LOVE, which again, as I have stated, love is a force, not just a feeling. - CR

Love from Samoa.

"don't build things just because we think we can" yes i totally agree with Anil Seth here! (and "tech bros" perfect!)

At various times during my life, weird experiences have demanded that I question the purely material paradigm of scientific culture, and for me it turns out that consciousness is not a hard problem at all. One just has to adapt Leibniz' Law a little, to see that for example, when you reach out to pick up a gup of tea, some part of your mind, probably the most central, or most connected part at that moment, is in a very true sense identical with some of the facts of the cup of tea - otherwise it would be an hallucination. Our minds are both composed of neural activity, and facts. The facts share something in common with other facts, that may not be composed of neural activity, but other material stuff, or on occasion someone else's neural activity. Sharing facts extends our consciousness halfway across the Universe, and nearly back to the beginning of time. No doubt such distant and historical things were objects that have long since changed into other things, with new facts. But that does not alter the facts of what they were. When we see a distant star, our consciousness includes a fact that is the fact of that star's being, and that is well beyond our own brain. We mentally construct facts about external objects by assembling a mental image that is congruent with the facts as supplied by photons. It is guesswork, mostly; we could be lulled into believing it no different from the AI produced by ChatGPT. But the difference is in the detail. Our mental image is a proper analogue of some other reality, whereas the AI is just a list of words that can only be as conscious as a book, and that is not much. Our mental images are facts, and the more accurate we can make them, then the more conscious we can be, precisely because that produces an identity between subject and object.

01:15 The Holberg debate explores the scientific and philosophical question of consciousness. 03:48 The 2023 Holberg Debate has no defender of the faith or Social Democrat, only heretics. 08:48 Exploring consciousness and its existence beyond human brains. 11:18 Understanding Consciousness is a challenge of modern science 15:38 Renaissance in scientific study of Consciousness 17:40 The brain is a prediction machine controlling our experiences. 21:30 Scientific understanding of consciousness is evolving 23:24 Consciousness is not the same as the mind 27:18 Challenging the notion of extended consciousness beyond the brain. 29:47 Humans can experience thoughts as not their own 34:19 Conflicting intuitions about the relationship between mental and physical. 36:36 Imagining a porous Mind-World boundary increases likelihood of experiencing God or spirit. 40:54 Prayer and communication with a higher power 43:05 Creating and interacting with tulpas using mental imagery and communication. 47:46 Rupert Sheldrake proposed the theory of morphic resonance, leading to controversy in the scientific community. 50:07 Consciousness as controlled hallucination 54:28 Understanding the process of vision and how the brain creates images. 56:36 Understanding the historical context of visual perception theories. 1:00:55 The sense of being stared at is common and directional. 1:02:49 Training to enhance sensitivity is possible and should be more widely accessible 1:07:00 Consciousness extends throughout the body and beyond the brain. 1:09:21 Moving away from the notion of a single controlling entity within humans. 1:13:13 Consciousness extends beyond our physical body 1:15:16 Consciousness and the brain have an intimate relationship. 1:18:56 Understanding different experiences and their importance in science 1:20:56 Interpretation of words on consciousness and human experience 1:24:54 Neural activity generates weak electromagnetic fields beyond the skull. 1:26:46 Different methods of gathering data change how one relates to truth. 1:31:12 Beliefs and relationship with an invisible being can have a profound impact 1:33:13 Importance of non-true things in literature and moral principles 1:37:02 Consciousness extends beyond brains 1:39:02 Consciousness may extend beyond the brain. 1:42:47 Does consciousness actually exist beyond our own experiences? 1:44:45 Quality of evidence is more important than quantity 1:48:34 The nature of Consciousness shapes our experiences and sense of self. 1:50:25 Phantom limb pain can be treated with virtual reality limbs and adjusting feedback. 1:54:08 Theories about the nature of consciousness 1:56:01 Consciousness theories are not completely proven 1:59:51 Consciousness is not everywhere, but we are continuous with nature. 2:01:48 The concept of extending aliveness to the world and ethical responsibility. 2:05:34 Consciousness may extend beyond individual brains 2:07:37 Beliefs may have collective power but individual belief in God can still change people independently. 2:11:22 The challenge of defining consciousness beyond brains 2:13:17 Re-evaluating consciousness in fish and brain neuron significance 2:17:07 Brain operations can lead to surprising recovery 2:19:18 Consciousness involves making choices among possible actions. 2:23:27 New scientific worldview impacting consciousness and life 2:25:12 Consciousness is not just information processing in the brain 2:29:00 Consciousness is deeply biological and rooted in the phenomenology of being a living organism. 2:31:01 People feel a sense of being communicated to beyond themselves. 2:35:21 Building conscious artificial intelligence raises ethical concerns. 2:37:03 Consciousness affects our ethical and moral decisions about artificial intelligence. 2:41:12 Understanding consciousness requires considering diverse experiences and scientific exploration. 2:43:20 Importance of taking experiences seriously You Can't Judge A Video By Its Cover you can by its first few chapters and certainly by its last.

Excellent, really enjoyed this. I discovered Rupert Sheldrake as a Psych/Comp undergraduate back in 1995. He is still standing steadfast and Panpsychism is gaining momentum in the scientific community. Good to see. Subjective experience and personal opinion is important.I liked all debaters and facilitator 👍

A hypothesis does not have to be testable to legitimate. It just is a possibility that cannot currently be scientifically disproved or proved. In that case it can still be addressed in the more general field of philosophy.

I feel like the question of 'How many different kinds of Fourier transforms can consciousness go through?' is big. Dreams seems to be splitting self into multiplicity and environment, a particular (Scottish I believe) RU-vidr by the name of AdeptusPsychonautica actually did a month-long DMT test, was able to approach DMT breakthrough slowly, and got to watch himself decompile into multiplicity. If anyone can confirm that this is a common thing with DMT we might be able to sort out how DMT might cause the splitting of subpersonalities into autonomous agents and what kinds of frictions this works out (ie. why we dream) in a much more precise way.

this is such a brilliant debate. made my day.

A particle is conscious because it is influenced by information during interactions with another physical system with information. It is controversial to call it consciousness. We can say a brain with consciousness is influenced by information like the particle. No a particle doesn't feel like something, it is just in an informational state.

For any one interested in these conversations, I would encourage you to seek out some discussions with Bernardo Kastrup and with Donald Hoffman. They seem to me to be a step further on.

Without a doubt. I see the brain as a communication trans/rcv, and anitimocal control center. Reasoning is completed outside the brain to an as yet identified metaphysical center.

I was hypnotized by her.

Thankyou RU-vid for allowing me and hanging in there with me... go look. And Thankyou "Google" for loving all information and its sources like about "Sega" my dad's gift to me when I was only so young. I'd love to go to Japan to see the Sega building and the area I think it looks so cool and they were with USA north America. 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉❤

I enjoyed this conversation. Having said that, I wish the panelists would have included someone like Bernardo Kastrup. With all due respect to Tanya Luhrmann and Rupert Sheldrake, the panel needed someone who would have pushed back more aggressively to the myopic perspective and logical fallacies inherent in Anil Seth's reductive materialism.

The extended question is; does or can consciousness exist if matter is absent?

To deny the Self, to deny individuality, to see only process diminishes us and diminishes reality. It is more realistic to perceive the Self as an individualized expression of a reality which is referred to by many as God, or all there is. We can be a Self separate from the whole or merge with the total Self, as mystics have done.

Consciousness! YES! 1:38:20

Its so weird I woke up from a nap to this video.this is something i think about every morning,my dreams try to keep me sometime when I'm dreaming it feels like I can remember being in my dream for 20 years and when I go back to sleep my dreams continue from where they left off.the only way I wake up from my dreams is by having a nightmare I wake up with my heart beating super fast and trying to ketch my breathe because by that point i can feel pain and I'm telling myself to open my eyes it takes awhile but eventually I can bring my consciousness back to reality and out of sleep its a scarry experience when I can't find your myself I think I get lost in the dream world and it feels like I'm dead like I have to connection to my body and I have to try so hard to get back to myself and make myself open my eyes ..sometimes I wake up and for a second forget where I'm at or who I am or who's with me . I had a dream I got murdered in this house and it was on repeat the dream and I remember what the house looked like what the mom looked like and I would walk out of. The room I was in there was my murders in that room and i had this feeling like I was gonna shit myself or my bowls were going to completely release so I run to the restroom and passing by a room is a dog that startles me and the mom is in the room in the background and she has burgendy fluffy wavy long hair she's old and gives me a dirty look and it felt like I did that three times untell i finally reached the restroom and I'm in the restroom its dark and something popes up in front of me and it seems like it yells at me I'm dead and I look in the mirror and my stomach drops and I feel like I'm falling and my whole life flashes before me then woosh I'm back in front of the mirror and that when I realise that its not me I'm looking aat its someone I've never seen before but I'm looking three her eyes and covered in black shit like oil or dirt all over me and I'm saying i don't want to dye this isn't my body and I fall to oblivion and wake up in a sweat breathing heavily ...and thats just one dream there all so vivid ..scary..most of the time

I had no idea Steven Tyler also has an academic career

The thing is that reality is so strange but if you're aware that someone will be staring at you the results will probably be less successful than if you just compare feelings after a certain amount of time and taking notes when experiencing a feeling and about who's making you feel uncomfortable from the crowd of strangers

Tanya Luhrmann just made me realize - it would be a lot of fun for them to throw John Vervaeke into one of these as the 'in the middle' role, ie. a lot of the more abstract points Tanya's making I'd see him making as well - let alone he'd probably go down all kinds of interesting Neoplatonist and 4E, four ways of knowing, etc. rabbit holes.

Can anyone recommend any youtube videos on the latest research in anesthesia?

Thank you for the philosophical exposition of the contrast between materialism and idealism. Stupid me, I thought I was about to watch a science discussion. The idealists forgot to mention their manifesto, so Ive included it here. PHILOSOPHICAL IDEALISM AND CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY ```Philosophical idealism is the view of the world that holds that there is only one kind of ultimate reality, spirit or mind, and that matter is a mode of activity or manifestation of mind. It does not deny the existence of matter, but discovers and shows its true nature as a mode of divine activity. Its theory is that the only beings are God, the infinite and eternal Spirit and Creator, and finite spirits, such as human souls, and that the material universe is God's own system of thought and activity, his employment and enjoyment which acts upon finite spirits so as to create in them a tiny copy or representative experience of his own world. Thus God is the infinite Spirit in whom our finite spirits move and live and have their being. ```

Seth your words are just amazing!

This discussion is great, but it amazes me that the subconscious is not discussed. This solves the question. From feeling someone is looking at you, to experiencing a separate presence as a deity, to the science and evolution of the physical brain. It is the subconscious that is Omnipresent via our evolution it hold everything and we share with it, and it is shared by all conscious beings. Consciousness is limited to what we allow in from our subconscious. Our free will, and how open we are to our possibilities. It is the universal subconscious (not conscious and unconscious) that should be the topic. This summation causes all on stage to agree.

I agree with Rupert.with regards to Extramission I believe, based on a universal observation called 'Atomic Spectroscopy' which is the study of the electromagnetic radiation absorbed and emitted by atoms. That the electromagnetic radiation our eyes obsorb are then re-emitted back out into the world when the electron returns from its energised excited state, to its rest state. That electromagnetic energy would shoot back in the same direction and angle it was received by. So if someone was staring at you, you would theoretically would be able to feel the electromagnetic radiation being projected from yourself, to the person's eyes looking at you and then back to yourself from their eyes. Which is why it's frequency feels so familiar creating the feeling a that someone is staring at you.

"Deconstruct their life and reconstruct who they are". Exactly what is required to become truly sober if you're an alcoholic. (personal experience, after 45 years of drinking)

If all energy radiates then, so also does the mind for the mind is mental energy. Thus, out of body experiences must be possible because all energy radiates and as everything is fundamentally on a frequency and frequencies interfere with each other. Thus, it follows that as energy is a frequency, it must be possible with the correct mental attitude to change the frequencies of anything based on a conscious frequency. This gets complicated when all consciouness affects all other consciousness which means parallel realities must exist so as to allow for each and every individual frequencies' states of consciousness allowing for quantum meruit after all everything is made of nothing for than light. Therefore, it follows everyone is everywhenwhere in various strenghts of frequency. It follows that someone's consciousness is dominant in this reality because in another reality someone else will be dominant and the collective consciousness must be the Alpha and the Omega. This is logical and enables all possible chances of success to be experienced by all states of consciousness. Quantum computers work in a similar way performing many tasks at the same time. The mind is multidimensional interconnected with other minds via quantum entaglement, path curve vorticies and worm holes. Reality is made of quantum dots, planck lenghts and waves of energy. There is in reality no matter, time or space only energy. Energy is made of particles of light. The only thing in your mind is light and because there is no space other than imagined space you are often light years away and at the same moment on the other side of the percieved limmits of your reality. There is no end to this open minded concept of reality because it is forever expanding into that which is beyond our present comprehension having not yet found that frequency which we shall discover and tune into .

Reading McGilchrist’s The Matter with Things makes listening to this simpler. He mentions Rupert a few times too. Newtonian folks people can’t think in the immaterial. I was an immaterialist via art practice for decades, which made reception of the field real after years of building skill of letting go while in nature and embodied. The super materialists are tough to abide with. I think they have fear of death.

I think consciousness could be the signal to which our antenna (Brain) receives. I think our brain, (the signal capturer), like our Wi-Fi or cable boxes, lack the complexity and comprehension to understand the signal. Our brains are simply the transmitter, the messenger if you will, to which the message is outside of our feeble grasp. Invoking a higher mind here responsible for this all. A God if you will, but not a God of the thousands of beliefs systems, but a God vastly far difficult to know and understand.

It seems that before consciousness can be “found” it must be adequately “defined”which all can agree on. I don’t think we are there yet.

The Buddhist monks are quite aware of the capacity of the mind to appear/know objects and other minds distant from their person. Well established. The purification of the mind of non-virtue is the path to this capacity. They may wish to bring in a Gelugpa scholar familiar with the Abhidhamma.

" When your brain stops you stop" Always the same question, it depends entirely on what one considers as " you" if it's a body- mind, yeah sure, you as a body pretty much desintegrates and minds resumes. If you consider " you" as a body less essence, chances are you just step onto another state of consciousness, and with that, an entirely different reality within the multiverse.

Thank you. Very interesting and cordial discussion. Can you do one on ghosts and spirits (things that go bang in the middle of the night)?

Hooray for Rupert Sheldrake.

In energy healing (healing the human energy field), we learn to heal the energy field of the phantom limb, and it works. There is a field of the limb. This work had been done for years. The testing and development had been done for years.