This is the perfect format to shoot out modelers. And the perfect amount of commentary. I would love a video like this for each combination pair of modelers. I think this is the most useful product comparison video I've ever seen in my life..
The REALITY is that sound wise, devices generally have already from like 5-6 years ago reached a point where our ears are simply unable to notice any REAL difference in quality that can't be accounted by EQ and gain settings. What that means is that comparing sound quality has become a bit pointeless, cuz all units sound (to our ability to diffenciate) all very real and as good as a real amp will. So what we actually compare sis everything else: mostly UI, DSP power for simultaneous FX, ins-outs, interconectivity and most important, the user ability to achieve the sound that's on their head. Almost 100% of the time someone says "X unit is better" you can account that to the unit's ability to lead the player to the correct choises they want to make.
I got a HX Stomp XL this year because of you mate! Very late to the party, but your demos and the updates got me. Australia currently FM9/Quad sells for over $3k AUD new. Fender Tone Master pro just launched at $2.5k, and the HX XL is going for about $1.4k (even cheaper on sale). The value is still amazing for the Helix. Building my first board around it. Plan is to use real tube amps, real boosts, but modelling for the effects and expanded tones! 😁
wow units are double the price of Us and UK, why is that?? Government Taxes Duties??? LOVE watching your AFL football and Rugby, both are way more entertaining than our American stuff.
@@ksharpe10 It stumps me. I wish someone would investigate it. I heard most of you Americans are paying taxes on-top? But even with that, you're getting much lower prices. Our prices include GST (taxes), but if you convert from USD to AUD, we seem to pay a lot more. Shipping costs doesn't explain it. We have the highest taxes in the world for tobbacco and alcohol! My cigarettes cost $32 for a 20 pack. Life is getting rediculous! Not much of a footy watcher, but checkout V8 Supercars Bathurst. One thing I like about USA is your country supports your musicians better. I hate to say it...but Van Halen over ACDC anyday 😂
@@simonp9471 USD is about $1,50 AUD now. So thats half the price doubling. Shipping fees exploded with covid shutdown catastrophe, probably import duties in Australia are huge like everything else is, and finally retailers margin has to be high to cover their own high costs as everything costs a lot in Australia.
Have to say, I liked the Tone Master pro the best personally. I think it boils down personal taste at this point and workflow in all honesty. But, keep the TMP videos coming! Would be great to see how you dial it in more over time for some great sounds! 👍🏻
Honestly I've only really been enjoying the Helix out of everything you've showcased in your videos though I might just be biased since you somewhat convinced me to buy it but ever since I've had this thing it's just nonstop fun/mind-blowing. Not only that but your gumroad folder has really shown me what this thing is capable of and it's really cool that I'm able to tweak all the settings to my own likings. Thanks for the great insight John you were the man I hope you have a great week sir, cheers! 🎸🤜🤛🔥🔥
Thanks for doing that comparison. I was really disappointed by what I heard on the recent Andertons Comparison. This is much more like what I expected. 👍 Please keep in mind that "echoic memory" is only about 2-4 seconds. So that's a good guideline for carefully comparing tones.
I'm almost certain that the Helix in the Anderson's video had not had the most recent firmware on it, they were running the old cabs. The new ones are so much better sounding, so that's what they kind of were a bit hard on the Helix in that video.
I recently got a Helix floor mostly as a tool for writing and recording (I still use my analog rig with a tube amp live) so I am not looking for a new modeller at this time as the Helix works well for me for what I use it for. But if I was looking, the TMP would not be very compelling to me sound wise. In my headphones, the Fender amps were very close and the AC30 stuff sounded better on the Helix to me. The Helix sounded even better with the higher gain amps to me. There's something weird in the mids on higher gain in the TMP but I must says that, on the Helix, not all higher gain amps sound good to me with my guitar either (I'm also mainly a Strat player). The one model I keep gravitating to for higher gain is the Revv Gen Red. My main tube amp is a Revv (a Dynamis, not a Generator) but I have the G4 pedal emulating the Gen Red channel. The Helix model is very convincing to me and feels great. In recent comparisons, the only modeller I heard that really sounded better than the Helix to me was the Quad Cortex. Otherwise, they all sound pretty similar. But the form factor and connectivity of the Helix floor are hard to beat for me. I played it a lot at home recently and went back to my analog rig with a HX FX at its core for rehearsals with my band this week and it felt limiting compared to the floor ;) Fewer switches, no large screen. I'm thinking of going all Helix live but we have an upcoming show Friday and I decided to go with what I'm most familiar with. Back to the TMP, even with the similar form factor with screen for each switch and the larger touch screen, I still prefer the Helix floor. If a Helix MK11 or 2.0 adds touch to the screen great, but I do not feel limited by the lack of a touch screen now. And tone-wise, they are equal to me with the Helix winning on anything higher gain that I've heard so far. My $0.02...
TMP Headphone out IS awesome . Helix is 10 years old still sounds great through RU-vid Hope fender and neural and whoever all l come to appreciate your position on reviewing gear
Ha, glad I couldn't tell the difference in the first bit after all...sneaky! 😊 In the second section I did think the Stomp was a bit bassier in some but nothing, I'm sure that couldn't be rectified (if one wanted to) with EQ on either unit. They're both great and totally usable units.
Thanks for addressing the Fizz.. Rhett says that type of stuff and misinforms people all the time. Real amps have fizz. It's noticeable on modellers when you tend to crank your gain up higher than you would on a phyical amp in the room, and the default mic placement settings tend to not be set up for high gain, ie: The mic is too close to the center of the cone, where it will pick up way more high end fizz.
Rhett had alot going on, think he may have gotten a Bad unit. Not only the raspy/fizzy, but He also had some kind of Osolating, pulsing sound going on, and it was not a Tremelo effect in use. I would love to know if he will follow up that one. He does not look much at posted comments, and is much harder to get ahold of, him and Beato, tim pierce good LUCK getting in touch with one of them. Most RU-vidrs turn off their comments to them after about a day of posting a video. JNC does sometimes even responds on really OLD Videos.
I’ve heard that same issue in more than just Rhett’s video, he was just the one to really call it out. It’s unfortunate he referred to it as “fizz” because I don’t think that’s what was happening. It sounded to me like the sound was breaking up, leading to a crackling sound. Some people were saying it was an aliasing issue. Seemed like it could have been a clipping issue as well.
I thought that A and B sounded the same, but I was sure I was hearing the Helix. The low mids had that fuzzy, chewy thing that your main lead sound on Helix has. Well done! You’ve obviously come along in dialling the TMP to your preference. Sounded great and just like you.
Owning both i have say that the fender units UI is by far nicer and easier to navigate and the button labeling is great . Sound wise they both sound similar and the fender is going to grow in time i believe. I love the both but if both were available back when i bought my Helix i would have probably went with the TMP with its more fluid layout and UI .
Thx, this completely confirmed my suspicion. I listened to the intro jam with headphones while doing something else on my PC. I didn't know there was an AB thing going on and I couldn't tell there was a change. In the isolated stuff there was a difference sometimes (especially with the more gainy stuff) but that's not a quality difference but more a matter of changing some values to make it sound more to my taste. I'm sure you could tweak some settings to make them sound even more alike (or better). Which leads me to my conclusion with modelers. Brand doesn't matter, most devices have good quality, what matters is price, features and maybe interface.
On the "fizz" thing. In my experience this is mostly due to the cab sim. A real guitar cab has a limited frequency range. So it acts like a natural low/high-pass filter. Digital cab sims don't have that built in and studio monitors have a wider range. So the tone gets shaped differently by the cab-sim. You have to go in and manually cut above 8-10k (good cab sims have EQ built in). Real amps are similar. The EQ on a tube amp gives you access to some of the frequencies but a lot of tone shaping is just set by the manufacturer and you can't do anything about it. Digital modelers usually give you much more access and also responsibility. And there are a lot of really good guitar players that don't have much experience with producing/mixing, and that's why the presets on these things are super important. I'd wager a lot of people just look for a preset they like and maybe add an effect or two and that's it. They don't have the ability or the time to spend a month dialing in presets. So imho good presets should be a big selling point! And that's also where a lot of cheaper devices really fall short. For example, modelers from Mooer or Zoom etc. can sound really really good, but the preset are completely unusable :D
Ok haven't seen the end reveal yet but think that B is the helix because of the difference in the reverb sound to me..... wonder if I am right but honestly would not know the device had switched without the video prompt. Was listening through good headphones!
HA! I thought I was crazy and my ears were on their way out since I thought A and B sounded the same. I'll not schedule an appointment with the ENT Doc now. 😅Thanks and great vid.
Thanks for the comparison! I got a slight critique though: Your comparing sections of each model are too long. You’re playing to many different styles with one device. When you then switch to the other device, my ears have already forgotten how the first part sounded on the first device. Pieces of 5-10 seconds of playing, then switching to the other device playing the same stuff, then switching back again and so on makes the comparison much easier. ☺️
I think that they both sound good. Fender just did a huge step with this beautiful and convenient screen and the bluetooth too. The BT is really useful when you want to jam along at home with your smartphone... Hope it would be possible in the future with L6 products. 🤞. However the helix sounds very nice and big. The real amps of their collection that they modelled are incredible. Only a few improvements are missing. Good review JNC !🤘
I preferred B slightly, mildly clearer in tone and a touch more dynamic. I’ve had a helix for 5 years now. In that time, I’ve only grown to love it more. I don’t think there is a single product on the market that beats what the HX Stomp is capable of at its price point. I would say if you’re on the fence, buy an HX Stomp before you buy any full on modeler. I think folks really miss out on the fact that incorporating these modelers with analog pedals as well really makes them that much better. ToneMaster, Helix, AxeFX, Quad Cortex etc., they can only improve with firmware updates and they all integrate outboard pedals really well. Great video John, thanks for the content!!
Please keep these type of videos coming! Would also appreciate a blind version with just A / B and don't tell me until then end which one I was listening to... I fear we might listen with our eyes and with our wallets if we own one of these units and apply unfair bias to what "sounds" best...
Would appreciate a video on TMP exploring connectivity options such as: - CTL switching(on Angry Driver for example) - Possibility to use with real amp, routing before amp AND send/return and TMP receiving amp line out and IR send to FOH - MIDI switching of other pedals (per preset and within preset) - Parallel routing of external pedals with internal fx - Any other clever internal/external routing that is possible Thanks for the video :)
John, firstly, thanks for these vids, your FTMPro vids have been the best I've seen (closely seconded by Leon Todd's). I couldn't tell the difference and at this point in the game I don't even listen for sound quality anymore (since most modelers are pretty close in quality), moreso just look for versatility.
that's because L6 has offered tons of improvements over the years via all their updates. I predict the Fender won't have 1/3 of the production lifespan of the Helix before they discontinue it. Remember the Cybertwin?
@@nigeldaddyo I agree. I personally think it's a big risk to invest heavily into a company that hasn't shown any willingness to continue working on updating their modeling products. At this point, I believe Fender is over-promising, which is not a good thing.
Great vid and fantastic point. I agree, it’s easy for anyone to find differences or choose favorites between two things. All depends on context and motivation. Thanks for all that you do.
Sound difference is definitely negligible. I appreciate that we are in an era where the digital emulations have gotten so good that It's not even about tone anymore. Just about workflow/interface and form factor.
@@TheCyberMantis How would you even know such a thing? lol. "Based on my research we've definitely run out of ideas on the digital front when it comes to sound emulation and simulation-any "ation"-we've already thought of everything"
@@TheCyberMantis My point is that you are not on expert on the realities, nuances, processes, possibilities, history, potential, workflow and applications of sound emulation so to claim "we probably hit the limitations of what digital can do" made me laugh. I thought it was funny. If we were friends, I would have said "Bro, there's no way you could know that" and it would have cracked me up. Sorry. Not trying to hurt your feelings.
@@davedraws76 What's even worse is: you don't know me. So you don't know what I know. But you act like you do know what I know. You know what happens when you "assume" something...
Had this on in the background while I was working and looked at the screen when I heard something that sounded really good and it was the Deluxe on the TMP. Not surprising because the Deluxe is in my top three amps, but I definitely think that one sounds better on the TMP. I don't really like any of the other amps you were comparing in real life so unsurprisingly I'm not that interested in the models. They all sounded like usable tones to me though.
I was leaning towards the Helix but the neck pickup didn’t sound too bad on the tone master. When you compared Friedman BE100, Fender sounded borderline “bad” to my ears. If I were to choose one, it would have to be the Helix.
In the blind test if I watched the letter change from A to b I thought they were different but when I just listened and didn't watch the video I couldn't tell when the guitar changed. 100%, it's not a blind test if we see a letter change from A to b, that's confirmed.
I felt they all were extremely comparable except the Friedman model. I didnt like the Tonemaster at all on that one. Perhaps though, it couldve been dialed in differently. I actually preferred the Plexi on the Tonemaster but both sounded great. Pretty impressive I guess. Im curious why Rhett had that harsh top end on every one of the amps he tried in the Tonemaster, yet I heard NONE of that on your tones. I suspect you are using the low pass filter liberally???? I think Rhett brought it down to 10khz or something like that. I drop the high cut filter down to 5khz on almost every patch in Helix. Never sounds harsh. Great video as always John. Very good data to pull from this vid.
After years of using valve amps, I'm now a Helix user. I don't say that because I think it's better, just that I find it suits my needs more now than an amp, cab, mic, and stomps do. Whilst I have not actually tried the others myself, I think that at the end of the day, you will get a sound out of either of the modellers on the market. The big differences IMO, are in the ease of use, portability, I/O options and price.
1st time ever I couldn't tell any difference between A and B on any comparison test. Now I know why. 🙂 TMP seemed to have a slight bit more gain going on in the Deluxe Reverb ... prob a setting adjustment. Did like the tone of the Helix Deluxe Rev ever so slightly better. Once again, maybe it's a setting issue. IDK (Have to say after these past three days of TMP vids, I really like some of the physical features, the layout, the buttons, etc., as well as the display.)
To my ears, the Helix still sounds better. The Fender sounds darker. Helix is more present... has more bite. Just gives it a tad bit more life. But the difference isn't a deal breaker. I recently went from my HX Stomp to a Headrush MX5... why? Ease of use. Touchscreens are much more intuitive, and Fender's looks like a big leap forward even compared to Headrush. Love that you can pull up the amp face and use the foot switches as encoders to manipulate the amp knobs. Nothing I hate worse than having to navigate a bunch of menus when I'm trying to do something quickly on the fly. Fender has the right idea. Just don't love the price point 😳
Why I somewhat agree I think helix sounded better on some amps. Not all. I’ve owned both and now love the tone master pro as my main rig. I don’t need all the hi gain amps. I want fender tone. And this it does very well.
Didn’t comment before the reveal but turns out I was right. Initially thought B was TMP after hearing the sound breaking up in several spots. The at right around 2:07 this becomes extremely apparent, as in other videos the TMP really falls apart on low notes. So I switched my answer to A. In the end, I was hearing the same issue on both.
I preferred the Tonemaster but the real question is which one represents more accurately what they try to mimic. Not many of us had the opportunity to play AC30s or JCM Silver Jubilees therefore I have no reference point by just listening to two modellers side-by-side
JNC love your legato runs! To me the device A sounded like the notes had more sustain. But only you can tell what note responsiveness feels and sounds like under your fingers.
Across multiple RU-vid comparisons, the Fender Tone Master Pro sounds more "real" than Helix. Note: I own a Helix. Something that hasn't been mentioned much by anyone is the fact that the Tone Master Pro is the first, serious modeler produced by a longstanding amplifier manufacturer. I have wondered for years why companies like Fender and Marshall have sat on the sidelines while Kemper and Helix and Fractal and others have developed digital alternatives. Marvelous playing and insights as always, John.
No offense but I disagree. The store channels like the TMP…the ones that aren’t shills aren’t overly impressed. Check out Ola and Steve Sterlacci etc. I’m just saying I myself wouldn’t change based on anything I’ve seen. New to the modeling world Fender seems like it could be an option.
My main concern with the Fender device is whether or not they will support it and provide updates over the years like Line 6, Fractal, QC does with their products.
Hi Vince, The TMP is a long standing project for us at Fender and we have tons of plans for its continuation! We look forward to sending out updates for TMP every 6 months with new amps, effects, fixes, etc
@@RStolFender Got a ways to catch up it seems to me. I personally would like to see a Magnatone amp. NO one has done it yet. And especially the pitch/shifting Virastar vibrato. With the old Oxford speakers the Amp. is just different enough tone wise/metallicy sound, to be in it's own class. And where is at least ONE brown Face Fender, like the one that is most popular and rare the Vibroverb?? Updates and upgrades would get me to pay the price. Otherwise for now I will sit back and watch where this goes. Really NIce interface, and user ability. Probably best I have seen so far. 😀 John Cordy has to be considered one of the TOP reviewers of MODELLER Gear on RU-vid. Especially in the UK. He probably SOLD more Helix units than any other advertising done for LIne 6. He makes any UNIT sound like pure GOLD.
Thank you for the feedback! We have a large list of items we are looking to add for future updates. But I am more than happy to take what you have mentioned and add them to our list for review and see what we are able to make happen! Appreciate you taking the time :) @@ksharpe10
It's clear that all in one modeling units are here to stay, which is why Fender has jumped on board now that it is a guaranteed market share. This is what we will be playing for the foreseeable future, or until the next revolution.
I thought that too, but according to John in his Gigging video, you have to make tones Darker, or at some Gigs, it will sound to Thin and or too Crispy. I guess there are about 3 ways with a modeller that you can do that, one is supposedly Global EQ, what it gets set to, and or one can dial in the preset Darker, which JOHN probably did for his Gig. There is perhaps a third way, too. But I do not remember what that is, just have seen some videos by others that show how to Darken a Tone set. Oh I just remembered it is where the mic. is placed on the Speaker, away from the cone and Back farther, Darkens, towards and closer to the Cone, Sharpens/crispy. So that can be dialed in for that too. One can also use a Ribbon mics. every demo I have seen where someone switched mics. on speakers the Ribbons have yielded Darker sound.
I will try to word this as to not give away the results of the A/B test. I have to say I was fooled. And I listened several times after I saw the results, and noticed that unlike the A/B tests during the video, the intro performance wasn't done the same. Randomly, different figures and lines were played as the A and B switched. Different pick attacks, sometimes high, sometimes low, sometimes aggressive, sometimes softer. I'm sure it was just a coincidence, but I swear there sounds like these playing variables contributed to a tonal difference between A and B. Maybe not all the time, but enough and with enough consistency where I had my mind made up. Now again, I was fooled and I admit it. But I keep returning to certain spots and I'll say, "Yes, that is brighter", or "Yes, I can hear the articulation better here". But that's what makes all of this so interesting.
We say it with most comparisons, but in a mix, it's not going to matter. Alone with headphones on sure, pick your favorite. I think the TMP will catch up to the other main modelers and work out the quirks in a year or two of updates... Unfortunately its 5 years late.
It could catch up, but 2 years is alot of time for its competition to put out upgrades and significant updates as well. Time will tell. Competition is good for the consumer, so I can't wait to see how the other companies react.
I think it comes down to what you're using it for. If you're just rocking a pub gig in your covers band, go with what's cheapest cos everyone listening is not gonna give a crap or notice the difference of what you're playing through. If you're recording in a studio and playing your own music, go with whichever you have found your favourite tones on.
Both sounded great. I’m curious where you went with the high cuts on both. Seems from videos that you can get great tones from the TMP but have to be more careful/more aggressive with the high cuts?
A B comparison is absolutely the same for me. If there is nothing underneath, it is said to be interpreted. For me both are great. For me, if you already own the Helix, the TMP wouldn't be worth it. The form actuator of the Helix is suitable for me. The touch of the TMP is really bad but nice pictures ;) For me it's only worth upgrading to a fractal
great review john, id consider the components , the build quality and the support the product will receive over its lifespan and the history of the company has in doing this with previous products . given the qc now has its public beta editor release you'd save money and get more guitar and bass amps to boot ! thats where id put my cash if i were in the market , or wait and see what line 6 or kemper do in 6mnts time to be prudent
hi John, do you think the starting point on the fender is where the helix is now after being in development for a few years and the fender has the potential to develop to something really cool like most new devices.
Couldn't hear any major difference between the Fender and Helix on the "same" settings, and I don't expect an audience or an MP3 listener to hear much difference either. Which is a bit of a relief since I love the new Fender UI (screen, turning footswitches etc.) but I have an HX Stomp, HXFX and Helix Floor already and don't need to buy anything new for a while (plus the Variax input is a nice to have!)
"It's not really digital fizz, it's just fizz" i think is key. When we don't like what we hear from a modeler we typically attribute it to digital. Yeah a mic up close and centered on cap in a real cab can capture plenty of fizz. I prefer also having a mic off-center / off-axis with some distance to mix in, gets you more of the amp in a room sound...with less of that fizz
Both great. Both not in the same price bracket, which will determine who goes for what. Appreciate that the tonemaster pro has a fantastic user interface, but is it worth £1000 more on that?
It is true that the TMP is not in the same price bracket as the HX Stomp, but it very much is in the same price bracket as the full-fat Helix, so the comparison is reasonably fair.
@@foxmeisteruk I understand, but the point is that you can get the tones for £1000 less so it ultimately boils down to the question of cost and value. If the fender was priced sub-£1000 then I think it would sell a bundle, in part because the sub-£500 market now contains a few really excellent options.
@@slawsonscot There's nothing to say that Fender won't release a cut down Tone Master modeller in the future a la the HX Stomp, but you could say that Line 6 would sell a bundle more Helix Floors at sub £1000 too... whether Line 6 could make any money doing that is a different question, and the same applies to the Tone Master Pro. Personally, I think the Helix still offers more value than the Tone Master Pro at present, because it simply contains more model and still sounds good, but the Tone Master Pro is showing an insight into what the next generation Line 6 modeller could be... FWIW, I own a Helix, an HX Stomp, an HX Stomp XL, and a Tone Master Pro... I should also say that I also owned a Quad Cortex for 18 months and I believe the TMP launched in better shape than the Quad Cortex did, although that platform has very much improved since I owned my unit.
I am curious as to if using custom IRs makes a difference on either. I was not a fan of the helix (prior to the 3.5 update) until I heard it with some good IRs. Too my ear they made a world of difference from something that sounded a bit to brittle and 2d to something that was usable. I think TMP has good fender clean sounds but for most others I think I give the edge to Helix at this point.
As I understand it, the initial Fender TMP had an early release of the software and couldn't handle IRs yet, but this may have been updated already (see Ole Englund's review for example)
All the a-list modelers are good enough now. It sorta makes me wonder why Fender bothered to make this... It's good enough, but it had better be. Not worth jumping from anything else though... The size of the HX is a huge win for myself.
Wow, the beginning A/B comparison was so obvious that Device A was the Helix, and Device B was the TMP. You could just tell the TMP had a much more "rich/expensive" sound and the dead give away was sub-harmonic frequency interpolation combined with the gauge pick you were using for each. Ok, jokes aside, I was thinking as I listened that I couldn't tell a difference they were so similar, but at the same time I typically can't on these "tone" shootouts. I must be tone-deaf.
This video is great and I like the method of comparison. My first check with any gear is on its own and I'm just seeing, "does this sound good," without giving myself a reference. If the answer is yes, then I might dial it in to sound its best then dial something else in to sound its best and then compare. And finally if I feel like one sounds better then I might see if I can get the other one to sound like that.
“Better” is tough to quantify. As you say: too many variables that can affect the tones from the units. The fact that Helix has hundreds more and different models of amps, cabs, and effects for less still makes it the more attractive option and better value, even if the Fender *might* sound a couple of percent better on one or two models.
"....still makes it the more attractive option and better value,...." That's IF your target of "better" = having more options = better value. If one's idea of "better" is something else...then that won't be true at all....better is a subjective word...it's not quantifiable.
@@rpavich For me, in most cases… yeah. I’d rather pay less and get a lot more. I didn’t hear anything from the Fender sound-wise over the Helix that put it in a class above enough to want to pay the premium cost for it, and not have access to everything the Line 6 option has to offer. If, in a year or 2, Fender has a model library that’s close to on par with the other major brands, then the other things it has going for it might put it over the top despite the cost, and I may consider it.
Sounds aside, the video thumbnail showcases the gigantic size of the TM. Not a problem for all, but I do like turning up with just 1 gig bag. I imagine they might release a 3 button compact unit at some point.
All of these modelers have had a rough start. I think the TMP has to catch up a bit, but i think it only gets better from here. The next update will tell us a lot about the direction of the TMP.
Amazing video of comparisons, also incredible playing John! Though the TMP sounds a bit more clear, I have to say the Helix is still more than adequate for anything I would ever need. Especially for recording. In addition, I no longer use IR's in the Helix, due to the incredible new speaker emulations that the Helix now has.
I listened through headphones with my eyes closed to see if I could hear when you changed from device A to device B and I couldn't. When I was watching I thought I slightly preferred B as it has marginally less treble and more mids, but it was negligible.
I tend to prefer the helix in most comparisons, not always because it's "better" but because of a quality it has with how it compresses when it runs out of headroom in a pleasing way. Something about that feels better and more authentic than the HiFi sound of some of the newer kids on the block. That said I am that guy who prefers the 50w to the 100w amp so my take is admittedly pretty subjective.
I thought the fender vox model had a little more brightness and glossy tone vs the helix. Helix sounds just a tad more full on the mids to me. But honestly they both sound like two different eqs of the same style amps which is expected. But no major differences to my ear. The high gain fender tones sound more muffled and fizzy to me but maybe thats just me.
I am a longtime Helix user, but the TMP had less of that digital static fizz than the Stomp has when the sound trails off on the AC-30. listen to around the 5:40 mark. I use the AC-30 model alot and it drives me crazy on the Helix/Stomp
That’s not digital static fizz. That’s crossover distortion and it’s in the real amp too. You can reduce it somewhat by adjusting the bias and ripple parameters in the Helix.
I’m a helix for a number of years now and I still think it’s great, line 6 keep the updates coming and in fairness there’s always improvement. I’ve been looking around at other modellers but for the money I think the helix matches any of them for me . I no they say fractal is the best but it’s also way over priced in my opinion. Great videos John
Yo también en mi baño 😂😂. Me han agradado los 2 equipos aunque me inclino por los tonos Helix. Yo en concreto, cuando me decido por un producto tengo en cuenta el costo (€) , si puedo conseguir tonos que por supuesto depende del tiempo de dedicación y aprendizaje y, las salidas que necesito en todos ambientes donde me muevo. Para conseguir esto el mercado me ofrece productos más económicos que este Fender. Cuando con una Helix LT, Headhrus Prime o Boss GT-1000 estoy cubierto. Enhorabuena y mil gracias por el tiempo y formas de exponer la Pedalera Fender.😊
Fender just sounds less digital, smoother and creamy. There is this digital fizz on the Helix. Love the helix for what it is and I didn't want to like the Fender. But I've been liking its tone.
I was listening and not watching, while eating dinner in the next room (I have my Mac's audio routed to the stereo there), so I didn't know you were doing A/B in the intro, and it all just sounded like the same tone to me. I suppose that was a form of a cheating on my part! 8-) It does seem like the bottom line of these recent videos is that Fender is unfortunately entering the game late, at the point where the tech has matured to where the tonal differences are fairly minor (at least at my level of critical listening). So it's almost more about the interface than the tone. TMP does seem like a good unit in that respect, albeit not groundbreaking. The price makes it not even a consideration for me, though I appreciate that Fender has basically had to build a small company within the company to gather the expertise to build this sort of thing. Good luck to them, but I'm staying put for now with my HX Stomp XL, Eleven Rack, and S-Gear and Helix Native in-the-box. -Tom
Heh! I thought the B device had slightly more breakup than the A device.. Maybe double blind would be better as maybe you played slightly different between the two sections ;) .
To my ear, the note articulation of the Fender is perhaps better. The Helix has a sound I recognize as being more faithful to tube generation. Other than that I find the Fender to have an unpleasant compression in the EQ which I know is editable but I've observed it now with Rhett, with you, and with a couple channels I was previously unfamiliar with and forget the names. One further complaint is this harsh biting granular sound on the Fender that often comes through.
Well well well. At first I thought the A/B was one way, then further in I thought maybe the other way. Then I gave up … I couldn’t really tell, And on nice Tannoys as well. THEN the Reveal … and it was a trick !! LOL Well played Sir. These old ears aren’t so bad after all ,, 🧙♂ Unless it’s a Double Bluff 🙄
Given that it was the same IR, it's bizarre that the difference between the two, to me, was like it was just a different type of microphone. Like the Helix sounds sounded like they were mic'd with a dynamic & the Tone Master sounds sounded like it was mic'd with a condenser. Which given that it's a brand new thing against a nearly decade old platform...not much in it innit?!
A ribbon mic seems to darken anything or unit, and where on the cone, way away and back and more dark. One can change tone so fast today. Just got to know what to do and quickly. Because to much tweaking, in most cases has to be not FUN.
hey! there are some fake telegram scam accounts pretending to be you in the comments, just in case maybe you didn’t know, please ignore this if you saw it already! great comparison as always.
