Does High Spin Ball = High Ball Flight? 

Awesome topic guys. I'm using the 2017 m2 TM irons and when I found out about the loft of every club, (eg., 7 iron is 28.5) I told myself "I'm crazy" thinking that I was not going to be able to stop the ball on the green in search for more distance and a more control swing speed. To my surprise it's been amazing. I've been playing the Srixon Q Star but also the new Prov1 and the ball stops within a couple of inches. It doesn't matter if I'm hitting a 9, 8, 7 or 6 iron, the results are the same. Thanks for the vid. Great content as always!!!

Ian, what are your views about “salt water floating” to find out of balanced golf balls and effects on ball flight characteristics? TXG videos are very informative!

I know ball fitting is quite important but seeing the numbers today near my swing speed is eye opening. Awesome job guys!

You guys just understand golf equipment way better than anyone else I've ever met. ty

Perfect timing on this video. We just switched balls for my son, and his old soft core, soft cover high spin ball was launching really low the more power he got. We just switched to TP5x and the launch height, and distance is very noticeable. And it stops on it's divot. He is really enjoying the switch.

They really need to make a stopping power rating. You have smash factor why not have something that calculates your spin and decent angle to give you a number for stopping power?

What about doubling the loft and then add two “00” on the end of it? Would that be a good parameter to consider with spin rates? So that 24 degree 6i would be 4800 rpms... but in terms of stopping power you’re really looking at land angle. And if you have a steep land angle with a lower spin, that just means wind doesn’t touch your ball... does that sound correct? Btw, I really enjoy all of your videos, really helpful for me when work with my members at my golf course.

I have a family member that delivers a lot of loft at impact. They use rogue X irons. They are good with them. I personally don’t deliver at much loft at impact as him. So I personally use more lofted irons. I think for people that are functional golfs that deliver lots of loft at impact, are great for stronger lofted irons.

Not sure if you have already done one, but could you do a video on the importance of aligning the spine of a shaft (or if it is a myth and doesn't matter)?

Educational video. Love it when the learning is counterintuitive.

This was a good one! When are you guys going to talk about the R&A driver testing from last week???

This is what I would have suspected considering the ProV1 spins higher and flies lower than the ProV1x. Great test

I play the Callaway Apex 19 and I have definitely noticed a higher ball flight with increased stopping power on the green.

My misgivings about 'jacked lofts' is less to do with stopping power given launch, peak height and decent angle and more to do with the potential to hit the ball further off line given spin loft and d plane...Am I completely off the mark here...? Thanks Gents!!! I'm a fiend for your content!!!!

Great look into the murky underworld of golf. I'm sure this question has been asked many times before but will a spiny ball, say the Mizuno used for this test, have more or less sidespin (slice/hook)? I should be more specific. Will a spiny ball result in a more offline shot given that all other parameters are equal?

I was fitted for with DG s300 AMT and had them paired with a set of mp33. The ball flight is very high IMO, but I time the AMT reds very well. Would you suggest a loft check to go 2 deg stronger or would I be looking at a golf ball change instead. I don't play enough to have one specific ball yet. Currently hitting Top Flight Bomb, then will be switching to Kirkland and eventually Pro V1. Thanks for the feedback

I tend to hit the ball quite high with all my clubs. Around 97 mph swing speed with 7 iron and around 6700 rpm spin. Would it be worth trying a spinnier golf ball like the RBX Tour to bring launch down while increasing spin?

Something that has been stuck in my head for a while... I was fit 2 years ago by a local Mizuno Top 100 fitter (for whatever that accolade is worth). Process was similar to your video with Voshall using the previous generation shaft optimizer, then hitting shots on Trackman with the top recommendations, and even a couple of the shafts not in the top 3. Flash forward to today, I want to play a slightly more forgiving iron head. Is it safe to just go with the same shaft? Or could the dynamics in head design (specifically coming from a 900 Tour to a 919 Forged) cause issues? Love the feel of the current shaft I'm playing, just want some more help for days where my ball striking isn't the best. Forking over the cost of a fitting just to confirm the previous fitting's results seems like a misuse of funds.

I play the rb tour x and I've noticed that it does go lower which for me is nice because I hit my irons really high, but the cover isn't very durable.

Currently playing a much too stiff and heavy D.G. S300 shaft (bought my irons used, couldn't refuse $) Now I struggle with a very low ball flight. What would be a few of the best balls to help get a little higher ball flight having a swing speed with 7 iron @ 70-75mph.

I was talking about this with a friend recently and we aren’t sure what is what. I switched from Titleist 714 CB with PX 5.5 to Miura Baby Blade with KBS Tour V 110. It seems that with the same or within 1 degree club loft and the same ball the Miura goes a bit further. Could it be spin that is doing this. I feel like I could be 1/2 or more clubs longer. I also feel like I am producing more spin with these Miura. What do you think

I 1st heard Mark Crossfield mention 7i = 7000 6i=6000 etc years ago but now keep hearing approx 7i 6000-6300 6i 5100-5400 5i 4200-4500.

So how does one increase their club head speed?

Nice lookin shirt Ian! 👌🏻

What would the expected driver speed be for someone who swings 6 iron at 87mph?

Another excellent example where spin on golf balls doesn’t mean slow!

Those xv rise up more then i could control the distance

A #7 iron is the new #4 iron.

Well I've always struggle with height. Swing 6 iron 82mph, 5-6 degrees AoA, peak height around 75 feet. I need a lower spinner ball to increase peak height? Currently use chrome soft

My experience is a little more nuanced. I have recently changed from M1 to i210 irons. 6i in i210 is the same loft as 7i in M1. Spin rate though was 500-750 rpm higher for i210. The M1 was definitely higher ball flight but despite a 4500 rpm average spin I never had a problem stopping on green. M1 7i also has5-8 yards extra carry. The issue for me was every few shots I would catch one which had even less spin more height and flew too far. The i210 is far more consistent. However, at 9i and PW (which are virtually same loft for M1 and i210) I see a significant change. I210 still spins more but launches noticeably higher, I lose a ti y bit of distance compared to M1 but gain a huge amount of control. Now of course that could just be my delivery

The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know.

So I’ve been playing softer balls thinking they were helping with my extra high ball flight... but what you’re telling me is... I’m an idiot Cool cool cool very cool very cool Lol you guys always shattering my universe with these truth bombs

TXG should do a ball bracket like you did with the drivers .. I'm looking for a ball ( if there is one ) to help lower the flight of my driver ....

My two favourite balls that I carry in my bag - Titleist AVX and Mizuno RB TourX. If you are going to have a day filled with mid to long irons / hybrids into greens, then go with the AVX as it is consistently 5 to 8 yards longer carry on these clubs and use the Mizuno RB TourX on more executive type courses with fast small greens where you are hitting short irons and wedges. I just did this exact thing the last two days while on vaca. The Mizuno RB TourX is almost a throwback balata cover type ball merged with a modern hot center core where you just absolutely know you can spin it into greens with wedges and it will hold anything. My playing partners were almost laughing because I had the same Gap Wedge 115-120 yard distance into 3 holes consecutive holes and hit 3 identical lower launching high spinning wedges that all landed hoped then spun back 1 yard for 3 looks at birdie (only made 1) - and to confirm what Ian said, the ball does NOT sacrifice distance with a 2000-2500 spinning Driver - it only is shorter (3-8 yards carry) with most of your irons.

You mean, _"Does High Spin Ball = High Ball Flight"?_ Good job on dispelling ball spin myths. Spin is a function of energy, loft, AoA, strike location etc. All else the same, less energy = less spin, it's unavoidable. I can't spin a 7 iron like you guys and never will. We each need to test/get fitted and find our own levels of spin.

Been wondering what difference would there be between X flex 60 gram vs S flex 70 gram... Would the lighter but stiffer shaft provides same level of control as the heavier S flex even though the wall is thinner and produce faster swing speed?? Of course, it must be same brand and same shaft... Just very curious...

I watch all your posts but the distances you guys post are no where near the average golfers' numbers. If I carry a 7 iron 135 yards, I'm doing well. I'm 74 years old and have been playing for half a century. I seriously wonder if your posts are useful to the average golfer out there, or more for the elite players...say 5 hdcp and better? I am currently a 10 hdcp and can't relate to a lot of stuff you show. My drives go anywhere from 190 - 220 yards on average. I keep it clean out there and seldom get into any trouble with wayward shots. What can you do for a lot of us in my catagory?

A serious question: Have you "proved" a high spin ball has a lower peak height, or have you simply "proved" the Foresight algorithm calculates a lower ball flight?

If I could hit a 6 that consistently, I'd only have 2 clubs in the bag.

I think one thing to point out too... you're getting more roll out from the higher spinning ball than you are from the low one. Just shows you how important launch and descent angle are when it comes to your approach shots. People (especially on golf forums) are so fixated on spin that they forget or assume that more spin - without always considering other parameters like launch and ball speed - is going to be better for you, or simply that lower spin off irons is bad. This sentiment seems to really be prevalent now with threads popping up really trashing Callaway for releasing the really strong lofted Epic Forged irons.

Great info. So much misinformation on forums every time someone discusses hotter face/stronger lofted irons. Even buddies I know avoid some of the tech in stronger lofts passing it off as "well you are just changing the number from 6i to 7i" which is wrong. Yes, 6i loft has become a 7i now, but they forget launch conditions have improved with the higher ball speed at that loft... it's necessary to decrease the loft to keep the right launch conditions and trajectories at higher ball speeds... would love to see a comparison added to this with a lower spin ball like Chrome Soft or Srixon Qstar tour as well that has spin around 43-4800 rpm and see what those launch, height, and decent angles look like for stopping power... so a low, optimal, and high spin comparison... not just optimal and high spin.

Really good video to clear up some common misconceptions. In general, it's safe to assume that higher compression = higher spin and lower launch. With that in mind, higher spin doesn't always equal higher flight because launch plays into it, as to Aerodynamics to a slightly lesser extent. Great video, Matt and Ian! Keep this great info coming!

Another awesome video. Main point getting fit for a ball is as much a part of building your overall game as getting fit for any other part of your equipment.

What is the effect of different spin rates in windy conditions. It would be interesting to carry out the same test into a reasonable head wind. Also interested in the effect of draw and fade spin in various wind conditions against no wind.

You guys blow my mind day in and day out! I learned so much in this time since you started the channel, I can’t even put in words. Ian, would you launch a fitter training???

I"m still not convinced by strong loft irons! I feel like a flyer with a strong loft iron will be more destructive than it would for the same distance with traditional lofts. I think you guys have have covered distance control with strong vs traditional lofts in the past, but testing off mats. Would be good to see you testing this outside with Matt hitting full shots from semi rough, tight lies etc, focusing on standard deviation of distance/spin rate.

This was a surprising result. Thank you. My Dad is 82 and probably swings the driver 65-70 mph. His trajectory on the driver is fine but he struggles with his irons. I have a hard time believing a low spin ball with a low swing speed William get him more trajectory. Or will it?

How do you explain the last 2 generations of Prov1 spinning less and flying lower than Prov1x then? I also recall you saying in the Mizuno ball testing video that it’s a myth that a softer compression ball actually spins more than a harder compression. It seems to me like there is still confusion on this topic. Or maybe it’s because it’s different from brand to brand and what they claim they’re softer ball does versus their X ball. I swing my 6 iron at 100+mph and have no problem spinning it into the mid to high 7000s with most “players” style irons. I’ve been told in professional fittings to only play a ball with an X on it because of my swing speed and spin rates but then I seem to spin X balls even higher than their regular counterparts on wedges to the point where it’s problematic. The whole thing is confusing

I hit my 5 iron with 140mph ball speed and 12 degree launch and lose so much distance due to spin I play cobra mb irons, would a new iron fit make more sense then or a change of ball? Play v1 or Kirkland v2 ball

What are some other high spin golf balls out there?

If the equipment manufacturers stamped a realistic number on the bottom of the club, then lots of the current misconceptions with golf equipment would go away. The club you hit so well today is a 5 iron with 6 stamped on it.

Love to see difference between say tensei ck red s flex and tensei ck white r flex

Hi guys - thanks for the vid -- I am nearly 60 and really struggle with distance off the tee -- I am using a 12 degree head cranked up to 13.5 to obtain a high launch average across 20 shots attack angle is +4.5 - but dynamic loft is 15.9 and launch 13.9 -- in part due to my typically 4 degree in to out and 1 degree open face - most shots are a 20 yard draw, or hard block. 200-220 yards are good drives for me, with my 83-85 mph club speed (125-135 ball speed) I tend to generate medium to low spin - 2200-2400 when i hit it out of the middle and a 15.5-16.5 degree launch angle, with my 13.5 degree driver with a 45.5" regular shafted Speeder Revolution III 569 shaft. But have seen some higher spin with the better balls - see below I am looking at what ball I should use to game the most. I don't want to loose touch and feel -- so i really do not like so called distance balls. I tried and played with the Titleist AVX - but discovered the best results with a Honma TW-X, followed by Srixon AD633 Tour and then the Bridgestone tour b XS. I did not get to test the Mizuno you proposed -- so just bought 2 boxes. I will try these as well next week -- even though they are at the pricier end of the range -- Honma and Strixon being the cheaper premium balls I have found. Do you have ideal ball compression / spin / launch parameters you seek to achieve to obtain maximum distance from driving for lower speed swings -- like mine -- you can share -- say 70, 80, 90 MPH club speed what parameters should we be striving for? I watched ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-M4Zaub7clf8.html and left the same comment -- please look below 90mph swing speed / 125mph ball speed. (I note you had a look at this with cheaper balls in Sep 15, 201 -- but I am looking for a premium solution with mid/late 2019 balls -- so the new Pro V1, etc..

I spin my 6iron(32deg) 7500rpm 89 mph,27.2 dyn loft, 20 launch, 95 height, 49 deg land only carry 150 so should stronger lofts be beneficial to me?

I was recently fit to new irons with the most important result being getting out of an AVX. I found AVX on a flier or pull would drop off too much and result in dreaded over the green shots. I would be careful for anyone with high swing speed switching to AVX to control spin. The front to back dispersion and consistency of spin is a problem. My numbers were 96-99 mph clubhead speed w 6i, 6800 backspin, 140+ height from R7 TP (31* loft) w KBS Tour S+. Moved to 1 degree strong apex mb (29* 6i) with x100. Spin moved closer to 6000. Used to use AVX to get spin down to that level. Now I can get the right spin with less risk of the jumper that goes over the green (which is death on most courses I play). Curious if you guys have any thoughts.

I am a high spinner overall and I am trying to think like Tiger Said, ”give me a ball that spins much so I can control it as I want”. Tho my ss is 93,5mph with my 7i, 7700 spin (a lot) and aoa -5.2 so I do hit down on the ball quite a lot. Playing the 919 tour irons The information you put out here on youtube is amazing! Built my own beast f9 driver with 45” shaft and led tape to get the same sw and headweight as you have :)

I have fitting question? I'm 6'3" and through various fitting over the years have been fitted for +3/4" & +1" but normally 2 degrees up. It has been mentioned to me recently that (this is the myth part) "clubs were traditionally made longer as they could only really be bent 2 degrees at most without risking damage" However as I now see more and more clubs with a much higher amount of bend-ability, would I not be better off with standard length clubs (I struggle with the 4 &5 iron at +1")until I get to the shortest I can handle for my height (maybe a 9) then carry that length though to the tail end of the set and get the lie angles made up to suit what is required, which may be different through out the set?

This was a great video. I just had a full iorn for and ball for and found similar results. I'm flying my 7 iorn 185 in the air with a srixon zstar xv with 6400 spin!

Ahhhhhh... Ian/Matt you guys are wreaking my head. You are breaking my knowledge of physics! I'm a very high launching wedge player with decent ball speed (try to lower that through technique). Playing a Project A. What ball do you recommend to lower my wedge flight and provide a little grip while chipping? I'm confused. 56deg at 85mph I get 10000rpm with 48 angle of descent and 97yds. 60deg at 79mph I'm 111131 and 53 into the green and 85yds (GCQuad data)

Hi guys, thanks for the video! Couple of questions on this, wouldn't you want to maximise spin for the distance you are hitting the ball let's say with 6iron? At least I would like to get all the spin I can get for my normal shot as it's pretty easy to reduce spin if needed. The other question, why Matt's second shot was launched lower if the loft was the same? Was it strike difference causing that? Has to be, right?

How about the Callaway SuperHot golf ball? It has a unique feel to the cover and the little that I have used it, it has performed well. That of course, as you have pointed out, can be a good fit for my style of game. I like the suggestion that a previous writer posited regarding a "ball bracket". Phenomenal work gentlemen. Keep it up!!

I really like the videos you guys put out. Also I like the idea of tinkering with the ball first before changing anything with club setup. I'm looking for a little lower flight.... Are there any good options to lower flight besides the AVX? Thanks.

Definitely a great video, but sad story is it's undeniable that majority of people will not accept the truth and will choose to believe something else. (especially what tour pro says)

Based off the MyGolfSpy ball test, I am already using one of the lowest spinning balls, Vice Pro. However I notice that a lot of my approach shots are zipping backwards on the green. Any recommendations? I am thinking of making a switch to one of the “more consistent” balls from their test. Cheers and thanks Ian/Matt!

This one will really make me re-think what my next iron purchase will be. Been shying away from stronger lofts mostly because of spin and usually they're not all that pretty (too much offset). Maybe there is something for this old man that will tick all the boxes with the right ball. Thanks for this one fellas! Learn something every time.

Question. So..... Would that Mizuno ball spin significantly more with the wedges than the Snell MTB-X that I'm currently playing? Without then negatively affecting driver performance? I believe I'm just north of 100/150, club and ball speed. Albeit measured on a seriously antiquated launch monitor. Not sure about my spin or launch angle. I'd guess roughly 2500, and 13-14ish. I flight it fairly high by the eye test, compared to other guys I play with. No clue on peak height. This stuff gets so technical, haha. I really wouldn't mind that added spin on lofted clubs, though. If it's essentially "free".

Very interesting video. But not sure what I have learned: So at "average" iron 6 swing speed of about 85-90 MPH the lower spinning ball actually flies *higher* than the higher spinning ball? So - all else being equal - more ball spin actually means lower peak and descent angle and rather more roll than with less ball spin? Then what happens at "pro speed" swing speeds? The pattern stays the same? Or is there a change, the higher spin ball catches up to the lower spin ball flight-wise? E.g. Titleist says ProV1X is higher spinning *and* higher flying than ProV1 but as per your video such statement must be just wrong, no? At least for average speed golfers? Tremendously enjoy your channel, Thank You!

Interesting. I understand the comments about angle of descent being an important factor to stop the ball, and also having an ideal amount of spin to stabilize the flight. In my experience with testing different balls, I’ve always gravitated towards balls that give me the type of flight that launches a bit lower and has a little bit of a climb to it and looks like it peaks later in flight. I find it’s so much easier to hit it on line and my misses aren’t nearly as bad. And I find I’m not losing stopping power with the perhaps a little bit lower peak height than other balls. So I guess the greens I typically play aren’t that “thatchy”. I don’t know. But the lower launching higher spin balls definitely seem to help my game with the courses I typically play. I have no idea if I’m at the perfect ideal launch numbers for me on a monitor, but the empirical evidence on the course tells me I found a sweet spot where the ball flight is stable and doesn’t drift far offline, and also got good stopping power. And I fully believe finding the right ball for me made all the difference. I’m finicky about my golf ball.

Hey guys, we hear a lot about some clubs being more offset then others to guard against the slice. Is it possible to demonstrate how more offset clubs influence club face delivery, the ball itself and the ball flight? Still can’t believe Matt didn’t buy the hole in 1 PXG irons!

when people complain about stopping power with a club like epic forged ,they don't factor in that they will be hitting a club or 2 less with the epic....in fact may be more stopping power......if they hit 6 iron from 180 with they're set , it may be a 7 or 8 with epic from 180 yards

I bought the RB Tour X and couldn't get through 9 holes without destroying the ball. They perform well until they cut and scuff with a PW.

im going to assume the difference is little with Prov1 vs X. I went with X as slighlty more spin and faster ball speeds. im curious about peak height though

Ball fitting is important. I did one last year and it was surprising how different the balls we flying. One thing I wonder about is hitting a knuckleball fade. Normally a draw is lower spinning than a fade but is it possible to get the same spin rate on both?

😂😂😂😂 Matt’s swinging at my 6 iron speed but it looks so slow when he swings compared to his normal. 😂😂😂 I need more SPEED! *hits the gym and yoga*

I play Srixon balls because I haven't found any ball with a cover that feels that soft. I have never seen a Mizuno ball. Are you saying they are softer? Also what about durability?

Ian, when will you suggest, if so, to any of your customers cutting the shaft' s original length to supposedly make the driver more stable

I wonder what happens with jack lofted irons with low spin when the lie steals even more spin from the shot: wet weather, rough or anything else. Does the ball get enough buoyancy at all ? My concern is there, mats are so easy to hit from compared to on course lies...

I dont understand this test. This was a ball test. Take any bladed 4 iron at 24 degrees and the Callaway 6 iron at 24 degrees and use the same ball for each and test that.

What about shots struck higher on the face, or any type of shot will cause even lower spin bombs (flyers) ? I've had issues with that ever since I switched from more traditional type clubs to the new distance oriented irons.

I am quite a (too) low spin player an my fitter recommended me to use the Bridgestone Tour B-RX to produce more spin but still hit the driver long way. Any others golf balls would you recommend besides the Bridgestone? THKs!

Maybe a simple question but does teeing the ball higher and hitting more up on the ball achieve the same result as using a higher lofted driver? I’ve been struggling with getting good height on my drives. Slower swing speed 85 mph with 9 degree driver. Does teeing it higher increase chances of slicing or hooking?

I would have loved to have seen the same test being done at Matts normal speed too. I understand why you dialed it back, but just for comparison I higher swing speed player might wanna see that, even though the point comes through at lover speeds too.

Superb. Another master class from Professor Ian. Ball fitting anyone.

Does dimple pattern/aerodynamics play a role in the height a golf ball achieves?

Interesting! Looks like i will be testing those Mizuno's soon!

what ever happen with your superspeed golf results?

HTF does Matty generate more clubs head speed (when swinging slowly) than I can on a really really good day and he looks as though he is swinging at 1/4 speed with the Brakes fully on? Apart from the obvious, younger, fitter, stronger and more skilled that is!

great video, the ultimate useful technical info channel!

Myth: "A low spinning driver will minimize the left/right miss. Why? Because a hook and a slice have a lot of sidespin but since there is so little spin to start with it won't curve as much." :-O Please bust away!

Great job, great data! Thanks for the learning experience!!

Thanks for the help during the live chat- got it figured out

Ian should teach physics at a local college

Dig the fuller beard on matt

Is it me, or is Matt more consistent than the robot?

Id love 175 yard 6 iron

Great quality video as usual!

Great vid! Thanks, guys!

Any way you could specify brands when you talk about different clubs? I find myself looking up who makes epic, who makes p760, what about z585? Thanks, GREAT channel

Something I would love to know which I found today: Wedge bounce vs sole grind? I.e. How big an effect does bounce have vs changing the grind. Is grind a bigger difference and bounce is the small calibration or more 50:50 with each other

Good video, but a bit confused. With the mizuno ball angle if attack was steeper by 2 degrees and launch went down 3 degrees. Wasnt he simply delofting the club to acheive the lower flight?