Does Modern Metal Suck? 

Big respect for raising awareness of my crippling "T" shortage 🙏

"...And justice for all needs bass guitar" I have to agree. I just watched Korn's cover of "one" from their MTV Icons performance and the bass really shined through. It sounded sick.

I love the mixing on those old school death metal records - that solid mid-range production just scratches the itch.

The other double edged sword that nobody mentions is there are WAY more bands today than there were in the 80’s, 90’s and 2000’s. Back then there was only maybe a dozen bands that you absolutely HAD to keep up with. Today there are dozens of bands a month with releases, it seems. That’s great, there has never been so much great music to listen to. But at the same time it’s really hard to get invested in and attached to so many of them. I have so many full albums that I’ve only listened to once or twice.

Modern metal is way overproduced, but it is also very difficult logistically to record a band live off the floor unless you're in a pro studio with a big budget, and even then the band has to be insanely tight and well-rehearsed (even more so compared to the old days) to compete with the precision and clarity that people expect to hear from metal now. Recording to a click is necessary for 99% of bands.

“Mix bad, older music not good” is the equivalent of “graphics bad, older game not good”

My main problem with modern metal is that it's too guitar/breakdown oriented and there just isn't enough emphasis on melody and good refrains. No matter how extreme, oldschool bands like Maiden, Metallica, Slayer, Deicide etc all relied on memorable chorus lines which made their best songs instant classics and easy to sing along to. Apparently today it's all about the heaviness and aggression of guitars, vocals are not that relevant anymore.

When it comes to the question "what can be done in Rock that hasn't been alredy done", really like what Farvann has to say. He compared it to Jazz, that gnere has been done to death for far longer than Rock has been around, but there are still a lot of People Who like it, i'd be cool with it, if that happens with Rock too.

What was modern becomes classic over time, some people become stuck in time because it reminds themnof their youth. Load of great music out there in many different genres, just enjoy it and listen to whatever makes you happy

I love the imperfections on older records, its sometimes create a unique distinctive sound to the record. Thats why modern metal sound the same to many people, the overproduce and same technique. The annoying thing about old recording is the sound is so low thay i have to turn the volume up, and if the next song on the shuffled is modern loud one, good luck, especially if you listen to headphones

Gojira strikes a timeless balance. Ill never stop listening to them. Granted, they are influenced by Metallica, Sepultura, Morbid Angel etc. Nice to see them influencing the newer bands though.

Whether you like old or new stuff, there is also one thing to consider: how many of the contemporary bands will still be there in 10-20 years? Take any form of art: for every Michelangelo or Raffaello, there were 10 copycats, which tried to imitate their styles because they were popular, but today are completely forgotten. The only difference is that today spreading your creations is far easier, and this is a double edged sword: on one hand there are far more "copycats", on the other it is also easier to find diamonds in the rough.

"Still trapped in the UK's tea shortage" ever since we dumped it into the Boston harbor in 1775😎

Another thing I dislike about modern metal bands is that no one seems to be striving to capture a unique sound signature anymore. Used to be that you could identify a band almost immediately by their sound and unique tones and phrasing without even hearing the vocals. Bands like Van Halen and Pantera had such unique sounds that almost no one else sounded quite like them. Rush is another one.

Me and a lot of people I personally know have a deep love for classic and modern metal. Honestly I find it ignorant when someone completely trashes either era to no end. In fact I think the best groups and artists pull from both eras. As an amateur musician who's about to be 27 I love the old and new. We need more harmonious interactions between the older generations and the new ones

Unearths album in the eyes of fire was one of the last big metalcore albums recorded without a click track. It had that subtle level of human imperfection and feel in it. Still holds up.

as someone who produces records mixes and masters their own music I fully agree with you about not letting an imperfect mix ruin your appreciation of a song

Man, Focus was so ahead of its time. I remember hearing Uroboric Forms on the At Death's Door II compilation by Roadrunner. That compilation, itself, was great (Death, Fear Factory, Suffocation, Cynic). I spent a weekend driving all over southern California looking for that Cynic album. I drove over 100 miles, visiting 8 different music stores. Finally found it on audio cassette at the Tower Records in the Anti-Mall in Costa Mesa. Wore the tape out within a year it got played so much. Saw them open for Cannibal Corpse. I felt bad for them. They were not meant for that crowd. I'm glad they got back together in an age that could fully appreciate them. I've seen them 5 other times now. They're ability to re-invent themselves while still remaining undeniably Cynic is awesome. RIP Sean and RIP Sean. Finn, you should do a video on them. They're long-lasting impact is criminally under-documented.

“It’s not like a producer will put a gun to your head”- I just knew a pic of Phil Spector was going to fly up on the screen.

I think the reason mixing quality matters so much to us modern metal fans is because as you said in another video, modern metal is essentially like EDM. We want something to sound so heavy that it activates a fuckton of chemicals in our brain. If the mix isn't good enough, it just misses the opportunity to provide us with that punch.

I saw a girl in a Nirvana shirt when buying groceries earlier today, and for the first time I thought about asking her to name three songs. I blame Finn for this.

This channel is always really good. Thanks again for facilitating interesting and topical discussions on heavy music. Thoughts: In the 80's, being a "rebel" (going against the cultural grain) meant being a narcissistic, selfish, anarchistic, nihilistic, "rock star". That was the counter cultural metal/punk position of the times, and a rebellion against their parent's generation's values. The reason that doesn't really jive today, is because, in the instagram era we live in... the AVERAGE person IS all of those things... the status quo right now IS indulgent egotism, and directionless meandering through life, to an unprecedented degree. A random 14 year old girl nowadays could give Niki Sixx a run for his money, in terms of belligerent partying. That's where we're at. So, the "rebel" against the status quo (today) is a different animal really... it's being learned, goal oriented, down to earth, focused, and not at all self destructive (as a counterpoint). IMO this is why the rockstar persona, as it was, cannot really exist comfortably in 2023. What was "badass" in 1986, is basically how a college girl acts on any given Saturday night of her life. "YOLO" "WE OWN THE WORLD BITCH" is likely exactly what RATT or POISON were thinking mid 1980s, funny enough. If you look at all the modern guitar gurus and young shred gods, sitting in their home studio, ripping, they have a whole other vibe. I am NOT CERTAIN it's for the betterment of rock music that the current generation is kind of overproducing, making videos sitting in a chair all day with no real "live energy", kinda avoiding any real "danger" in their music or even performance... but, it is what it is atm. There's an academic nature to modern metal that, to me, can kinda kill the "attitude" of metal, for lack of a better term. However, I believe you don't have to be like those old-school guys to be interesting... but, something was perhaps lost from the "persona" when the pendulum swung hard the other way in early 2000s. To the point in the video, maybe the more alarming thing we all see, is how there is NO real torch to be passed in terms of "legendary" characters in the scene. At least not on he level of like a Halford, Dimebag, or Mustaine and company. Also, it may very well be just a crazy over-saturation problem happening in all media. There's just... so much stuff. People don't really "follow" artist's work so closely now (except maybe other musicians) . Like reading liner notes in a CD booklet is an impossible act to consider for the newer generation. Last thought here is...I think all the new bands are making music for other bands... and not at all a general audience...and that is the root of the issue. It has to do with social media, I'm sure, but the kind of "vacuum" and separation/distance that bands enjoyed from one another in decades past is what maybe allowed for more creativity and originality. Now, we are hyper aware of what everybody is doing and thinking at every moment. Can't be good for finding a unique voice. You can't sit with your own thoughts long enough without interruption.

I think the thing I liked about production before it was all so perfect,was the variety. You’d get so many different sounds .even the same bands would sound completely different each album purely because of the mix

Korn and Blink 182 used the same Mesa Rectifiers. Blink used the dual and Korn used the triple.

" the mixes are bad!" Me *listening to 80's-90's punk... oh

Metal just sounds great recorded on old technology. I can't say if it's "better" or "worse", but as a matter of personal preference, I LOVE it. I can definitely enjoy an album recorded on a Tascam cassette portastudio. There's something about it that just sounds awesome.

There has never been a better time to be a metalhead.

I'm not really into metal, but I love the new metalcore album by Kingdom of Giants called Passenger. I also love everything Alcest puts out and he is seen as black metal.

For those unaware, there is a such thing called ...And Justice For Jason on RU-vid and Spotify that has Jason's bass turned up in the mix on the AJFA album.

100% agree late 90's / early 00s had the best mixes, the right balance of using techology but still keeping a natural and dynamic sound

I feel like there's no much in dynamics with modern metal. There seems to be a lot of stuff that just has the exact same sound to it. A sound that doesn't offer much dynamics. A lot of what I've heard is on one side of the extreme. Guitars that are tinny and sterile sounding, vocals that are either high pitched or low growling and just a consistent drum blast beat. Song writing just was so much better back then IMO. It took you on journeys and seemingly the lyrics just had more to them (maybe that's because you can actually hear the vocalist lol).

Really good video, very true overall. Too many bands these days, everything sounds Linkin Park perfect, not as many unique and catchy songs.

One band that comes to mind that blew me away when i first heard them and i thought to myself there one of the first bands that were able to capture the old production of the late 80s maybe early 90s was Powertrip when it came to thrash.

I love all metal. I just want loud drums and mean guitar riffs and songs that make me want to get up and move/break shit. As for the whole debate over classic vs. modern mixing and production, I think there's strengths and weaknesses to both that Bradley highlights well. Classic production has that organic feel. Things are imperfect and there's a grit on everything and it just feels very natural and very live. I think this is why vinyl and cassette have made a comeback too. There's something about record/tape hiss that just makes stuff feel like home. But I don't always want that. Modern styles demand a more clean, more quantized sound. I can't imagine a band like Abnormality or Archspire drowned in hiss and sounding slightly muddy. Classic production would hide all the complexities and cool little tricks in those bands' sound

Breakdowns have been so overdone that I have come to hate them (and as a result make an effort to avoid genres that have them). It's a trend I expected to die a long time ago (and to my surprise it hasn't). If Lorna Shore cut out their boring breakdowns, they would be an awesome band (rather than just a pretty good band). Solos are not a must for me, but highly appreciated and a great solo can be the climax of the song. That's why modern bands that still can shred and do it well (like First Fragment and Inferi) resonate well with me.

90’s and 2000’s production and mixing undefeated, most criminally underrated producer imo is ZEUSS. His records from that era sound perfect to my ear.

I love classic metal. I love modern metal. Im a better person for it. I also collect horror VHS so production quality doesnt matter much to me.

The mix is almost as important to me as the music. I’m not saying I like overproduced because it’s not that. I don’t like that. I just like a really good sounding mix. Part of that is probably due to my dad (RIP) was a career audio engineer. The mix doesn’t have to be exceptional for me to enjoy an album but it does need to surpass a certain standard otherwise I’m going to write the album off entirely (unfortunately) - also yes, most of these modern metal bands coming out over the last few years do suck. For reference on what I like, dark tranquillity is my favorite band. Probably followed by Insomnium.

I listen to way more modern metal these days then classic metal. There are plenty of cool things going on in the modern metal scene. Really enjoying the new Orbit Culture album that dropped today.

When it comes to old mixes I think it depends if you have some kind of nostalgia for those songs. If yes - the bad mixes wont matter to you, but if you'll try to listen to something old for the first time and hear the bad quality - It's gonna ruin the experience for you. It's like with games. If you played I don't know - Morrowind when it came out, you will still be able to enjoy it but if you tried to play it now for the first time? Well, I think you're not going to have great time with it.

shoutout to the songster mention in chat at 4:44! love that site

Also the latest underoath album isn’t completely quantized and sample replaced, there’s audible imperfections but it sound amazing

I used to like Periphery,and Spiritbox is an exception to the rule for me. But honestly once Djent became rampant in metal and kind of “the sound” for modern metal and the new releases I stopped exploring metal beyond the 7-8 bands and few extra songs I already liked. If there is another true innovation that comes along I’ll check it out,but for the most part I’ll stick to the limited metal I already listen to.

iMO, production quality is so digitalized and musicians are at such a high level of skill, that it all sounds basically the same to me. I personally think production quality of the 2000s to 2010s.

I think late 90s death metal has the best production (Gorguts, Cannibal Corpse, etc.) it’s a little more polished than the stuff from like 90-93 but not overproduced bubble bath clean we have today

It’s kinda funny thinking about it now, but the more the “core” genres started taking over the scene more I ended up drifting back into crust punk and stuff like that. I can’t help it, I like my metal nasty and aggressive and most modern metal just doesn’t do it for me.

Metal as a genre has NEVER been so diverse and varied and inspiring as it is today.

The Violent Sleep of Reason is one of the most underrated albums of all time, and each track was recorded in 1 take, full studio, all instruments on 1 track, like a live album. Still sounds clean. Phenomenal album

Altars of Madness is one of the all time best death metal albums. I like Blessed the most, as far as Morbid Angel goes, but Altars is incredible too. Maze of Torment!

The problem with modern metal is the *lack* of solos. Solos is the reason metal became big in the first place.

There was a lot of tape editing, even on orchestral recordings. Just not to a laser precision like today.

I think mixes are very important depending on the band/album/song. For instance I loved PJ's Ten and Green Day's Dookie but since it was their first major studio albums they now sound way too polished like there's a Instagram filter on them. Also, listening to major song's demos vs the studio album are usually world's apart. Like occasionally streaming will throw in some goofy remixed version of a great song and it's like, yeah, no.

The GOOD mixes from the 90s were amazing. Albums like Deicide Deicide were really hindered, though. I just can't crank that one loud enough to enjoy in my truck, on my ipod, or my home stereo to get the full effect. Sounds like someone is listening to it down the block. A shame as it has some of the catchiest songwriting in death metal. I remember how excited everyone was at the production on Legion, which had a good sound, but to me the songwriting wasn't quite there. And again I remember when Hypocrisy Osculum Obscenum came out, everyone was freaking out about just how good the recording was. I remember driving around town playing that one in the car and it was thumping the seats and rattling the mirrors. My friend had an old Corvair and we had three guys in the front bucketseat headbanging and disloged the entire fixture. Good times, Wish we could have rocked Deicide Deicide that hard.

Cynic Focus tempo drift is glorious. You can hear 19yo kids getting excited for certain parts all playing them faster. You can feel it.

Don't mind me. I'm just wondering if late 90s-Early 2000s Nu Metal is now considered classic or is still modern.

I think my issue is that when I start listening to a 7 minute metal song, the music generally is not worth being 7 minutes. If I have to default to paying attention to the mix quality, I probably should just stop listening.

One of the best examples of organic and high-level mixing was Korn’s Untouchables. It sounds massive, tight, and refined, yet organic and groovy. Here to Stay is one of the better metal riffs and songs of all-time in my opinion

Agreed about Altars of Madness. You drive down the street blasting that album in 2024 it still turns heads. It's not just incredible production for 1989, its just great production full stop.

21:34 Agreed. I thought Colin Richardson did an INCREDIBLE job on the old Carcass stuff (including 2011's Surgical Steel). And Morrisound Studios in Tampa really perfected the "kick triggering" that's essentially where we are today. But even then, those triggered kicks were perfectly in time with what the drummer was doing - which may or may NOT have been recorded to a click. At the time, those techniques *were* ground-breaking. Please tell me what was wrong with "Altars of Madness"? Incredible album.

Cause we drink so much of it, theres no T left to speak with.

Watching now. Just want to comment before I forget on the mix. I find this perplexing as well. I also find it perplexing because we listened to these albums and tapes on completely different equipment. I don't have my old tape decks, record players and speakers so I can't summon up a comparison now, but I know when I listen to Ride the Lightning on my computer through my mono speaker (which sounds terrible, isn't in stereo but still costs an arm and a leg) it sounds different than how it did when I used to listen on tape with two speakers. Yes the tone was harsher, but that was the point, and I don't really understand the focus a lot of current critics place on early metal having a harsh tone (it was meant to be abrasive). I don't think there is anything wrong with the new preferences, but I do wish people were more charitable towards the past and understand they are examining it from a vantage point where the technology is so different they may actually be missing something

whoever says that guitar solos are replaced by breakdowns is so off. Like every metal band in the game plays solos except for metalcore bands. All the popular metal bands right now (Mastodon, Behemoth etc.) play solos. I dont get that point at all.

Level of instrument playing evolution reminds me kind of what has happened in skateboarding too.

A high school friend of mine Jason Gobel was one of the guitar players in Cynic when they recorded their first album. He is still recording today, great player.

i dont think people are intentionally "focussing" on the bad mix, theyre saying the song doesnt sound good to them, and the mix is the culprit

I like both old stuff and new stuff. I'm 52 so grew up with the old stuff

Sean Reinert and Paul Masvidal were 19/20 for Death's "Human" record. For Cynic's album "Focus" in 1993 recorded the album live in the studio with Scott Burns they didn't use any "extras" mainly because they couldn't afford it and Morrisound was busy in those days. For Deicide's "Legion" in 1992 it was recorded in the same way. Same producer too. You don't think producers matter? The best in the business were Bill Metoyer on the west coast and Scott Burns in Florida. Bill Metoyer made ever band from Slayer, to Sacred Reich to Sadus sound good from his production bench. Burns did basically everything from Whiplash to Exhorder to Deicide to Death to Obituary. Producers matter.

I would trade all "breakdowns" for solos anyway. To me, the mind trip of a good solo is one of the big reasons I am here. A lot of personality comes out in the solo. It's inspiring.

10:20 what's left? Rock music scoring a spoken word recital of Shakespeare or the Canterbury Tales, or some other ancient texts. You know, some full 7 hour marathon of a thing.

The fact that we even have the electoral college is bad enough, but adding insult to injury is that most states have decided that delegates should not be proportional. If we're going to have the electoral college, then all states' delegates should be proportionate to the votes in that state. In either case though, the electoral college should be abolished.

I am going to apply this to pop punk. I think pop punk started off as to raw in its production and then it got really polished to the point where by the time the second simple plan album came out the genre got mega overproduced. But then when TWY came out I think that’s when pop punk production got perfected all leading up to life’s not out to get you by neck deep which is the single best produced pop punk album ever made. Jeremy killed it on that album.

The thing I like about modern metal is that there is so much more diversity and variety. Like in the 80s, it was a lot more focused on just a small handful of classic bands and albums, and traditional metal and thrash metal were basically the only genres around that weren't in their infancy. Compare that to today where metal has developed significantly more and there are countless more genres and bands, which just leads to so much more variety and it's just significantly more interesting overall in my opinion.

A breakdown is basically a solo without a solo...

Modern metal is in an amazing spot and is some of the most fun I've had in music in a long time. So much Incantation, Entombed, and Morbid Angel worship out there that's doing it right and doing it justice. Plus all the great core bands that dabble in the metal world. Love it 🤘

Wait a minute.. Is there more than one Buried Alive now? Only one I know of was the late 90's Buffalo hardcore band that Scott Vogel fronted. Loved that band!

14:29 :"...and I do thing we have lost something..." Yeah, a bugger. love you !

Totally agree. Musicians are better but songwriting....ehhh? Btw, I had a tascam 4trk to start with. Actually I used two boom boxes and a 2 chn mixer before that. Very old school.

very true about " musicianship " , many could surpass what Eddie Van Halen could do , but how many can write and or come up with a good riff like Malcom Young could ?

89 to 2000 the mixes sound great. Honestly music now sounds too polished like this is metal not pop lol.

I first picked up Altars of Madness on a cassette tape and even in that medium I thought it sounded great.

I largely reject the last criticism with a single name... Ian Fraser Kilmister.

I'm older than both of you guys so when it comes to the production of classic metal, I don't find it all that bad. In fact I'm old enough to remember when most bands were defined by their live albums (which always had the worst production). Frampton Comes Alive, Kiss Alive, Queen Live Killers, Led Zeppelin's The Song Remains The Same ... all of these are my favorite albums of these respective bands and its because the production is kinda crap, but its REAL. No overdubs, no edited in orchestras or other stuff, just the real band playing the music live. Modern metal bands don't even give you a real live show when they play live anymore (watch live videos from some of these bands like Animals as Leaders ... you can hear keyboards in the mix but I don't see no keyboard player).

I thought about it like 20 or more years ago when there was some artist being sued for some copyright shit or other saying his riff sounded like some other guys riff. Thinking to myself "Can you actually write a riff these days that sound like no other riff thats ever been written?", and that was many years ago... it's even harder now.

That clown painting … isnt that the one thats on the cover of The Cows album Effete and Impudent Snobs?

The examples of production quality that Bradley cites are perhaps not the best, but there's no question that there are a lot of badly produced albums in the early days of metal that, quite frankly, make the albums sound much worse than the actual song writing and performance. Max recently re-released early Sep albums, and while anyone can question the motive, I don't think anyone can really question that those albums, production-wise, sounded like ass until Beneath the Remains came out. This is definitely an improvement in the scene (although strange outliers of poor production do still exist).

Oh look Finn has the Slayer shirt he bought at forever 21 on.

For me mixing can’t ruin my enjoyment of a song but there’s something really special about a great mix (see Black Album or Zeppelin IV)

I feel the same about solo's as I do about breakdowns. If it makes sense for the song then add one, but when it feels like its been put in in an obligatory manor, it shows and is terrible.

Metal was far more innovative between between 1985 to 2005 than from 2005 until now (2024). So many bands were exploring different levels of heaviness, tempos, aggression and melodies. Modern metal seems stale and uninnovate, caring more about image or fitting the template.

I'm firmly in the camp that 90s rock/metal production is objectively superior to modern rock/metal production. The power and energy unique to that era is completely lacking in this new overly produced type of sound.

I think modern production is a big part of it. Everyone is using the same drum samples and same plugins. Therefore there is no “unique sound” like the classic bands had. Instead, everyone sounds the same and on a grid. Those old Pantera, Van Halen and Metallica records sound like people in a room playing their instruments.

I really don't get why Death's Human and Morbid Angel's Altars of Madness are listed in the "horrible mix" category, they both still hold up.

Ice Nine Kills new record has some of the most musical and shred solos I’ve heard in a modern metalcore type album that actually work. Last records that really made them work with early trivium and all that remains.

I remember my friend getting our first 8 track way back in 1990 like it was yesterday. It was like Christmas

I'm an old guy too but I %100 agree with you about older recording quality, I think it made each album more unique.

Overlap right here. I love Slayer and Necropanther.

there s a great doc about AT THE GATES recording SLAUGHTER OF THE SOUL in a house/recording studio w/super basic gear

Metal has some of the most talented musicians but some of the worst songwriters.

TO ME WHICH EVER Time ERA YOUR BORN INTO THAT'S MOST LIKELY THE MUSIC YOU PREFER. IM AN OLD SCHOOL METAL GUY I LIKE YO HEAR THE BANDS PLAY THERE INSTRUMENTS NOT LIKE PLAYING THROUGH COMPUTERS TAKES THE FEELING OUT OF IT BUT I DO STILL LISTEN TO MODERN METAL IT JUST LACKS FEELING ALSO OLD SCHOOL METAL YOU HEARD A BAND YOU KNEW WHO IT WAS BY THE SOUND AND VOCALS UK DRILLERS 6.6

Reason Ronnie Radke can't be the modern Rockstar is the same reason nobody can be the modern rockstar. The internet. We live in an era where no musician has any sort of mystique, because all their info is publicly available and their behaviour is broadcast across social media 24/7. Back in the day, Ronnie Radke's shitty rap album would have been an urban legend he'd just shoot down at interviews, now the whole internet can clown on him for it. Nobody talked shit about Metallica the way they do now until that one documentary dropped, but Ronnie's whole career has been that from start to present. In reality Ronnie Radke is actually very similar to a lot of the archetypical Rockstars but unlike them, Ronnie never had a period where all the clown shit wasn't broadcast to the world.