Does Sim Racing Have An Esports Problem? 

Esports has an Esports problem and sim racing is just one form of expressing it

I used to be a director in PSGL. Down in the 11th tier is where you have people just racing for fun, maybe some of the older guys who’ve been racing there for a decade and don’t really practice but like having a race once a week. Cheating at that level is embarrassing and pitiful.

Well Jimmer ...this is a good moment for you to start a proper Virtual Sim event ! I think you got a big amount of guys following you !

in real sports punishment is much more severe then a short ban. that's the real eSports problem.

Nothing saps the fun out of a hobby quicker than competition of the highest levels. When you throw money into anything forget fun and sportsmanship, people don't just want to win, people want the money and will do what they can to get it.

Sure seems like I need to look up the sponsors of the Williams eSports team and let them know that I find it hard to buy products from companies that encourage the teams they sponsor to act in unsportsmanlike ways.

8:30 Some found out the hard way :D Im a marshal and was watching the pit exit line at an event. Drivers kept ignoring it and were reported. I got A LOT of "unfriendly gestures" after their drive throughs. Some were stupid enough to do it several times in different sessions (I guess they thought the marshals rotated?!)

This will surely be an interesting topic in 2023, especially considering the growth of simracing esports and the ESL tournament with its large prize pool!

I think asking EA to actually care about anything besides microtransactions is asking far too much (let’s remember who now owns Codemasters). They’re probably more concerned with finding a way to create F1 Ultimate Team

This is the first time I realised there weren't live stewards in the top split. This blows my mind and explains everything. The solution to this specific problem - cheating by drivers on track - is simple, we already have the real-world racing examples right there to copy from. if there's pro teams involved, there has to be live stewards and human policing of race behavior. And before that, much better rules that are very specific about both violations and penalties. Basically, iRacing needs to put in the measures any reasonable fan would expect to exist. To put it another way, the worst part of this whole thing wasn't Williams cheating, it was that nobody stopped them or punished them for doign it. Absolutey pathetic from iRacing and others who run the event.

As someone who loves arcade racing games like Wreckfest and Wreckfest, the sim racing world looks completely mad.

I chaired a panel at the World Science Fiction Convention in 2019 that asked "is Esports the future of competition?" And I think we're now there. If it's going to be contested at that level, it has to be governed at that level.

Still waiting for a full vid on T-Rex Assetto Corasa mod, I think we all need a break from all this serious esports shenanigans

I agree that top-split esports events need live stewards. I've been saying it for years. If they want to protect the integrity of their sport, they're going to have to pay more attention to the aspects of real motorsports that aren't covered by the programming.

My old auto teacher would warn us. When your passion becomes your job; you can't use it as an escape anymore.

Hit the nail on the head at the end there bud! People are forgetting how to have fun and taking it too seriously.

No matter what, in any type of game, you're going to get competitive. And in a game where competition IS the game, its only going to get worse. iRacing was fantastic when i first got it, but after Covid, it's just gotten to the point where I'm not on very much. Not from being burned out, but it has so many glaring issues that aren't addressed that takes the fun out of it. I'm not willing to do wacky things with a setup, wall ride or do anything out of the norm that I'd do in a real car. No matter what happens, when money gets involved, things change, and generally for the worse. Is it good that sim racing is growing? Yes, but the consequence to that is this type of behavior that goes against the "spirit of the race".

Check out what happened at the very first corner of the very first lap of the last race to win the Skippy School scholarship. Diego Pinto’s teammate put the chrome horn to the second place driver when there was just a 5 point lead, so everything was up for grabs until he got punted off the track.

I agree with your idea of live stewards for the top split on major events like the Daytona 24. It's the one that is broadcast, most likely has all the biggest names in the service, and is the one everyone will hear about. Live stewardship would have prevented that qualifying lap from occurring and may have altered the GTD shenanigans.

The worst thing about F1 esports is that for bad drivers it’s really obvious when they’re cheating…they miss apexes and make tons of mistakes but still do great lap times. The problem is that if the top drivers just give themselves like 1% more grip, it would be almost impossible to tell (unless you implement an anti cheat).

'this breaks my balls' is such a classic hispanic phrase but it sounds so weird in english lmao

Thats the best point made. Since it was top split and generally live broadcasts by someone like Race Spot, there should ALWAYS be live stewarding as part of the norm. As a benefit for making the top split. If its already getting live broadcast, not every split gets live broadcast. So live stewarding is mandatory in my mind. Because its like we have seen in the past with tire dipping etc. Drivers pushing the edges and no fear of getting caught unless protested. At the time of protesting. its too late.. too late to change the outcome. too late to get safety rating and irating back, too late in general and since iRacing is making a shyte ton of money off of us perhaps even have the top 5 splits with stewards to dissuade people from going one or two splits down on purpose to do the same stuff. Just my thoughts. Thanks for the update Jimmy.

How does Iracing not have code for this to automatically flag these actions. Then after the race have the possible flagged infractions scrutinized before officially awarding a win. To easy.

The Rennsport saga is going to be so entertaining.

Really appreciated that ridge racer towards the end

7:20 one of the more irritating parts of this is that this is literally every online apology these days. It's just "sorry we got caught" rather than, genuinely being sorry for what you did. Fm

This is pretty sad overall... If there is a competition that deserves to be called an "Esport" more than anything else since it is the closest thing to the real sport in video game form. Even with a Logitech G29, it enables people with modest income to have a similar experience to driving a real race car. It is the democratization of motor racing. So it is sad for me to see all this stuff that harms this hobby which I call my favorite.

Spetz has gotten a year ban actually. His discord status also has the days remaining until his unban in it.

This is where EA can assist Codemasters with their expertise. The responsibility is with Codemasters, but they can ask their parent and publisher for assistance in finding an anticheat solution.

On the Williams debacle, the mechanical side or “game” aspect of the platform does allow what did. The sporting code, the thing every iRacing player has to abide by and agree to before turning a single lap, doesn’t. Willams Esport violated no less than 4 regulations in the sporting code with their shenanigans. The driver in questioned got suspended, not banned. A ban would indicate they are done for good and not allowed to return at all. And if iRacing had any teeth they would not only lifetime ban the driver, but tell Williams to hit the road and exclude them from every broadcasted and special event for the rest of the year given their response.

Sim racing’s other esports problem is that too much focus in the building of these games is aimed at the top levels of esports competitors, meaning less effort goes into making these games just enjoyable to play for the rest of us who like racing but suck at it 😅

Well expressed, Jimmy. It's a sad side of human nature that some will take advantage wherever they can get away with it. Adding prize money incentivises the bad behaviour. Add corporate sponsorship, and the bad behaviour takes over.

When the exploits are obvious to the point of people doing them by accident... Maybe there is an obvious solution to people misusing bugs, fixing them! I guess that would be a lot to ask for though :/

Race Marshal here (at a national level, not international). There is 2 broad category and we can see them very clearly without a shadow of a doubt : - pilots that are just happy to finish the race. Taking moderate risk. My favorite kind. They even take the podium sometimes. - pilots aiming for the podiums, racing hard and taking all kind of risk. They keep us busy. And then there is the "lawyer pilot". At the "non-international' level it's not going to end well for them. Even if they are "technically right by the rule", they'll get a black flag anyway and the race/podium is over for them. Even if the race director is being ruled out (unlikely), it's over for them anyway. So in the case of the video here : - staying on the pit lane : orange disk flag, or black flag. - pushing someone out : black flag The legal technicality doesn't matter much, you're a safety concern, you're out. We'll sort it out later, for now just get out of the track. Once you get used to it, you'll see tons of "marshal moment" with mistakes made by the marshal or director. It's not a big fuss. It's a "racing incident" as you call it. It's only a problem at the international level with many tweet, fanboy, and 2 camera per square meter of track. Sim racing ESport need neutral human race marshal (as in real life) who doesn't give a F about who's who and why.

Is no one talking about how he took the theoretically slower way around the track and went FASTER?

The qualy thing was so minor. It's a 24 Hour race. Big deal. It's better to be 2nd anyway to fuel save. The bigger problem I have is sending out cars that are laps down to block competitors.

Famed NASCAR driver Kevin Harvick once said "if you're not cheatin you're not tryin" after getting caught qualifying with only half a gas tank of fuel.

As soon as I read words like robust in a statement everything seems to just mean nothing. Cheaters always seem to have one thing in common a narcissistic stupidity.

The F1 cheats have been around for a long time actually. Started to get serious around F1 2020. I've heard from a very reliable source that Longuet had them as well back in F1 2020, not sure if he still has them though. Edit: Codemasters have implemented an anticheat after about half a year into the F1 2021 game, but it has proven not to be very effective.

Yeah that ESL money is straight from the Saudi Public Investment fund. I wouldn't be happy for that

rF2 seems to be heading in the esports direction too. as someone who does simracing as a way to pass the time, and rF2 re-doing their tyre model for Goodyear and the Virtual LM completely changed how you have to go about those cars, including what used to be my all-time favorite simracing car, the Oreca 07. I can no longer just hop into a race when I feel like it, I have to spend hours practicing because even with TCS and ABS assists turned all the way on, which I never had to do, it's impossible to drive as a casual player. Am I saying that I'm mad about a skill issue? Maybe. But the point is that I can no longer do what I want to do in rF2 because of too much attention to esports and I am not an esports driver. The casual feel of the LMP2s and GTEs is gone and it's just a bit frustrating, since rF2 perfectly suited my wants as a simracer before.

Sadly there will always be cheating where any computer /console game is concerned and as soon as something is out to combat it I would imagine the cheats will be working on a way around it. Unfortunately it's not like real life racing in a physical car. It's sad that people do it. For me I would rather finish last than win by cheating but not everyone is the same. I can remember playing a mobile game and the top 10 times were all ridiculous like 1 second for a full lap and that kind of thing is even more ridiculous. It's not even believable. We just have to hope the devs keep working on fixes. Great video as always, thanks ✌️ 😎

this problem has been around for years. we were league racing in MRL, when f1 was off for covid and the f1 drivers started streaming the game, and you would have people suddenly buying wheels and gaining 2/3 seconds a lap over the course of a couple of days, or just turning their cheats up over the course of a week and just saying they are practicing. It destroyed all the hard hours honest players put into getting good over the course of YEARS, then having people ruin the league clearly cheating, with all the moderators not being able to tell conclusively and just saying i guess its possible that they "just got good" lol

The iRacing Daytona 24H is an amateur event. It is an amazing opportunity for anyone to take part in a 24H race, regardless of if you're a clueless beginner or one of the best of the best. The problems happen when drivers, teams, sponsors and broadcasters start treating the top split like it is a professional event, with all the hype that goes with it.

Hello Jimmy, when you introduce money problems comes, it's like that everywhere.

I caught one of the cheaters - CptForgie. Dude literally basically has ‘forgery’ in his name. Set a 26.1 at Silverstone while missing every apex.

here's a solution for cutting corners; force-fields... cut detected? disintegrate the part of the car that touches it. would come in handy for dual-lane roundabouts too actually :P

I think the main problem of Simracing as an esports discipline is lack of organization. I've seen other competitive titles that have well-sorted and well-organized tournament structures. In order to qualify for a regional tournament, you have to win local and national competitions; then if you at least win podium in regionals, you're qualified to join an international tournament. I might be wrong about this, but Simracing just "drafts" its competitors from across the globe to be pitted against each other directly. There's little to no indication about their recent achievements that qualified them for the world stage in the first place. "You won a previous tournament years ago? Congratulations, you're qualified for this one!" "Oh, so you're new to the competitive scene? Welcome to the big time!" Nothing to gauge whether the players can still technically compete or are already considered "washed out" or "too green."

Agreed. Doing something proffesionally and as a passion is very different. Programming was my passion 7 years ago and now I'm a programmer I still enjoy it but it doesn't get me outta bed in the morning but sim racing and driving on the limit at race tracks IRL too and adding performance parts to my car consumes 99% of my thoughts because it's a hobby. I bet pro drivers even get a moment here and there when they just don't want to think about racing even.

Jimmer you hit all the points I was thinking on the head. And I completely agree: if something is not set in stone driver can and will take advantage of it--and they should. But this was a blatant and they knew what they were doing was wrong.

What's disappointing is the amount of winnings on offer in sim racing compared to games like Rocket League & CS:GO etc etc. It's a pittance in comparison. I always found it silly that Gran Turismo offers no monetary rewards to its top players just 'stuff' whilst also banning drivers from wearing any team affiliated clothing or personal sponsor brands. GT could be a massive eSports brand for us less fortunate console racers but instead they do it half arsed

imagine that. split one and no official adjudication .. and this is the pinnacle of "Esports" what an absolute joke!

Gt7 daily race: “define problem.”

The solution to the car laps down is a) real stewards b) introduce F1 rules about having to let the faster car through before you pass 3 blue flags, at least for these major events and c) forced retirement of any car more than 20% of the completed race distance behind the leaders. This needs to be nipped in the bud now or everyone else is going to start doing it

Yea, esports has always had issues whenever a genre is becoming more popular. Same thing happened in CoD, Smash, speed racing, Halo, etc.

There’s corruption and a lack of consistent authority. Sounds just like real life, high profile motorsport to me.

The iRacing Rolex 24 was beautiful, it was an amazing experience, probably the best ive had in any sim.

Williams e-sport should be banned from the next daytona event for their behaviour. Button is just a bellend. Forcing e-sport generally tends to ruin everything if it's forced too much, look at Siege and Overwatch.

I think the most sickening thing was Jenson shoving his nose in. He really had no idea, did he? I mean, if in a race one of his competitors took their own line around about a third of a course, and sat on the end of the pit lane for two minutes to wait to play blocker for a team mate, I think Button would appeal to have them disqualified, right? So what if the Automated Marshall system did no catch these things, a real one would have. Williams knew that there was no human officiating at the event and took advantage of that, breaking both rules and regs by the race coordinators. Didn't he go on to say "Its just a game"? I mean, sure, its a game... that brings in actual race drivers and teams from around the world, with lots of real, actual money on the line. You have to treat these events with the same respect that you would a real world event when the stakes are that high, and both MSG with how they handled Le Mans, and Williams how they handled Daytona, simply do not respect the sport, or their peers.

Without racing stewards, teams might start "self-stewarding". If the leading car of team A does something dodgy without being punished, then team B can use their non-leading car to take out team A's car. It will become a demolition derby.

I've said for years that Codemasters need to have the F1 license revoked and moved to another dev. Even their in-game leaderboard is rampant with cheaters but they never monitored it nor did a damn thing about it. I'm a huge F1 fan and loved the competitive leaderboards, but I just stopped playing the game because of there was zero chance of your abilities being represented fairly on the leaderboard.

Esports takes the fun out of casual gaming.

It's just competition at the end of the day. Like you said about drivers exploiting anything they can for a competitive advantage. We can ask for drivers to be good sportsmen, but really it's up to the games and organisers to enforce it. Like anti-cheat. Or proper track limits. Or not having weak physics (brake dragging etc). Rather than blaming the cheating eSports weasels, we should be considering is the problem that we don't have a sim that is fully eSports ready?

To be honest, despite having raced in iRacing for a few years now, this is the first time I realised the top split races for the big events like Daytona 24h don't have actual stewards. To me that's a no-brainer, and I don't think many people would be worried about the preferential treatment aspect because ultimately the top split is where you have people who like you say have actual sponsors, have probably spent hundreds of hours of their time practicing, there's prize money on the line, etc. etc.

Funny enough iracing added a slow down penalty for going on the apron on the Daytona road course the day of this video

As someone who plays f122. I’ve been accused for cheating because of my age and my surge in form. It’s a shame how the game is going downhill

And Jimmy there's quite a bit of cheating in f1 esports especially at the highest level. Several were accused this year including the champion this year

This will be talked about for the rest of the year you can guarantee it, whatever happens it needs change like you said because its tainting something that a lot of people find really enjoyable and rewarding.

What a juicy start to the year for sim racing.

While I loathe 99% of the GT7 Penalty System I do like how "if you cut the track it's a penalty". With regards to the statement "if the game allows it it's legal" the "simple fix" is for the game not to allow it. It should be theoretically possible to have some kind of marker on the double yellow at Daytona that would negate or nullify or otherwise impede the lap time of someone who spends time down there with all 4 tires across the yellow lines. Nobody "Has" to cheat in esports/sim racing and if your sponsors will drop you because you didn't cheat to get pole then they're shit sponsors and not worth having. Integrity should mean something.

I missed the follow up to that. I did not realise Jenson had sold Williams both his experience and integrity

This is why i always stick to single player A.I races, and will always fight for better A.I in Sims

Great video Jimmer and completely agree. I understand there's serious money in eSports now but it doesn't excuse behaviour like that shown by Williams. I don't really care that there are no limitations embedded within the sim to stop cheating, there's the spirit of competition, which is to compete fairly and whoever is best will win. As Josh Revell would say "don't be a manus" - you're just ruining the experience for the rest of us and people are going to stop watching eSports if things like this continue to happen. The devs for the sims could do more to stop it, like AC does, which I think is the most practical route to nip this behaviour in the bud.

Once money gets involved... there will be attempts to have the upper hand...when talent alone cant gain the advantage.. teams will look to any and all means possible.

Not really the topic of the video, but i personally feel of two minds about simracing esports, huge respect for the dedication, but at the same time, I feel like the fact that technically anyone could become an esports driver/youtube famous or both is adding elitism and unnecessary tryharding into simracing in all levels which in turn can become a turnoff, because you feel less welcome in an environment where you have to feel sorry if you're off the pace by certain amount or worried that you might ruin someone else's race because you haven't practiced every corner to perfection. On a personal level, this has stopped me from being able to enjoy simracing, which I would love to do, because I do enjoy fine car control and physics, clean racing, more realistic events, etc, but at the same time, I've never been able to cross the competitive barrier. (Literally can't get past C-class in Iracing since my safety keep yo-yoing for random incidents, some of them my fault, some of them probably from others being overly competitive, in ACC i can't even complete all the track medals or get within the pace requirements of leagues like LFM) Of course, simracing on average more competitive and perfection-driven because it requires finer car control to even stay on the track and the physics and rules of motorsports should not part should not be dumbed down, but people's attitudes need to change, rather.

I thought you still had to verify your game files when you try to drive online and it removes any mods or files that aren't supposed to be there? I had a few time that when I used to play the F1 game it wouldn't let me play online until I verified my game. If it doesn't now then it should to stop people using cheats and mods online and in leagues.

I've been mostly playing AC offline so far this year and really trying to improve but not for esports, for fun. I didn't know about the f1 22 problem but the rest is history, apart from Rennsport and they seem to be following a game plan, I'm willing to give them the benefit of drought for now, they've made themselves a very hard deadline with the competition aspect but can anyone really say it's not gained a lot of free publicity for them. I think they're gonna go hard and that event will be a sink or swim for them, who's gonna invest time in it if it fails spectacularly? On the flip side if it's as good as the hype and delivers first time out, I'd be very surprised if there wasn't a big change in the hobby next year either way. It would be nasty to see a split between esports and the hobby, I kinda feel they need each other more than ever atm.

1000% I have been saying this for years. that they need to have live admins in the Top split as they are showcasing the Sim. No idea why iracing does this crap

It's the same solution as in every other competitive endeavor. Don't make rules you can't enforce. Poker has this issue with people using databases of solutions to guide, or even automate, their decisions when playing online. If the rule is 'don't go below the apron', then have a mechanism to enforce it, the same as already exists for track limits. If the rule is 'stream driver's perspective of the race and the driver' then invalidate any laps where this isn't the case. It's a failing on the game to allow cheats. It's a failing on the organisers to add rules they can't / won't enforce. The very minimum is a professional behaviours rule that allows for retrospective lap invalidation or penalty or DQ for the rules you want that the game can't enforce for you. That alone gets the Williams team DQ'd because after the fact we can see that they acted as a team with the intent that driver 2 would impede \ crash other drivers for driver 1's gain. It's so obvious that the Williams team principals must be giggling to themselves that they got away with keeping the win. Losing a driver is likely only a minor inconvenience.

We had a team in our “don’t win anything other than a pat on the back” NR2k3 league doing stuff outside of the spirit of the rules including driving on the apron and playing silly buggers at superspeedways with blocking while multiple lap down etc. We eventually got so fed up we kicked the entire team out, so it’s not just pro team esports teams that cheat.

Cheating is a huge problem in so many online games. Any measures implemented by game devs to block one method of cheating seem to be quickly circumvented by the cheat makers. I would ask why these game companies, which are worth hundreds of millions, and in some cases billions of dollars, seem to be losing the battle against small teams of cheat makers. Is it really an impossible problem to solve? Or are they simply unwilling to pay enough people to take the problem seriously?

This happens with everything when people start taking things too seriously.

My two cents: There are two main problems, licensing and the online aspect of the thing. The licensing problem arises when lots of money is paid by developers to secure real world sport branding to simulators which are not adequate for proper competition (rfactor2 and f1 22). A serious sporting association would professionally test multiple simulators, choose the best performing one, and pay the developer to make the appropriate cars/tracks content, not the other way around. The online thing is simple, online servers will always have problems, and cheating online will always be easier. If you plan to have "the biggest simracing event of the year", with an enormous budget, celebrities and such, just get them all physically in the same location, racing on gear provided by the organizer, on servers which are completely offline, possibly with a live audience too. It would be a much better event, and cheating/technical problems would be minimized.

Reg the 24hr Daytona - IMO, they should have live stewards, limit car speeds on the apron, and apply the same blue flag rules as in F1. Also, they should have the penalties to breaking the rules issued to the teams and available publicly online to reduce any confusion when a team/driver does cheat. I agree with everything you've said regarding sim racing esports in this vid.

Any game with a public leaderboards especially if money or a chance for money is going to attract cheaters and hackers.

As a filthy e-sports casual looking in from the outside, it seems like sim-racing gets much closer to the 'real thing' than other e-sports (Rocket League, LoL etc). Yet for some reason doesn't get any of the same preventative measures that real sports get like proper stewards or harsh(er) punishments. There seems to be a mindset of "eh, it's only e-sports, it's only a video game, sportsmanlike conduct doesn't matter that much", and when it spreads to team cultures like the Williams thing seemingly did, it endangers the sport as a whole.

It’s classic game theory jimmy. If someone does thing that’s maybe morally ambiguous but not illegal. Everyone will do it because if you’re the only one who doesn’t you’re at a disadvantage And not just morally ambiguity but also something that’s against the spirit of it but again not illegally. Everyone will do it because if you don’t you’re at a disadvantage This is not just a thing in racing or sim racing but every single part of life

How come there isn't a track limits set below the line down to the apron on the banking? There's track limits everywhere else. Also, it couldn't be that hard to have it auto disqualify a car that's sitting at pit exit or on the side of the track.

My thoughts on simracing are simply that I think it's a piece to feel like your racing idols for a few minutes seconds or hours. Without risking your live in a Group b car.^^ The problem with Esport starts I think is simply the money. There are still a lot of unknown Leagues, which did not know how to help themselves, starting to buy Bots for Twitch or hired agency to buy klicks. Simply search a little while on youtube. Racing in the real world is nothing more than a money-burning machine. The part that can make profits is so tiny. The same can be said for Esports.

This is completely on the game developers end event organizers. The event organizers should take their participants seriously, have crew onsite like irl and the developers should take what is learned and make an update asap to mitigate the effects for future events. Not having any anticheat in a competitive environment is just unforgivable so the only correct course of action is to boycott F1 games until they are fixed. These games should be called unviable and maybe even malware until the developer steps in and regains the player trust.

I am pretty sure these sponsors dont want to be connected to such behaviour.

Odd that it’s a bigger bone of contention when Williams Esport do it than when Red Bull/Alpha Tarui/Alonso does this to Lewis Hamilton

Wow i cannot imagine how Williams can defend dishonesty

It's up to us to drag the people who cheat and act unsportsmanlike. Sponsors don't care, they just want results and can happily shrug off forgettable incidents from teams. One of the big things would be for the event organisers to take a stand and ban the team from operating and strike their results. They must do it for thier integrity as a competition. Otherwise it'll have more cheaters next time and less legitimate participants.

Gaming has a fucking Esports problem in general. Next to the outright vile amount of monetization every game is built for nowadays; Esports has done some of the most harm to gaming as we WANT it to be IMHO.

Sim racing just doesn’t have the rules like real motorsports. People always push the boundaries all the time. We need better rules.

I agree with some of the other comments here. It's a wider sports problem. If there is a sherry of money and fame being dangled in front of you. You're going to do EVERYTHING possible to try and succeed. The reason it isn't a torrential problem in high skilled physical sports, is becuace over the last 100 years or so we have made advancements to prevent doping and cheating. Secondly, real, harsh, punishment. These aspiring esports drivers will just buy a new account if their old one gets banned. Or buy a new game system. We haven't found it yet, but we have to have real punishment for people ruining the integrity of the games they are cheating on.

My theory is, not everyone can win, there’s no need to turn into a ‘beep’ for driving so aggressive or whatever it may be. I do it for the fun factor. If it’s not fun, I turn it off.

Williams is disgusting and I will no longer support their real life team until actions are taken. Deplorable, when winning matters more than integrity in a gentleman's game

I said this on another streamer's site, but I learned a long time ago that some people will sacrifice EVERYTHING for a win. They will sacrifice their dignity and basically insult the intelligence of everyone in the community for the win. These people play a game based on reality, only so they can twist and exploit EVERY little advantage they can? At what point do the exploits they take advantage of result in them not playing the same game everyone else is? I learned this while playing Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory - which ia an old-school, first-person shooter loosely based on the WWII era. It was hardly realistic, but the game had the premise of being a WWII soldier, using WWII weapons in WWI environments. The problem was that the game allowed you to tweak the graphics in such a way that rendered the surrounding environment all but invisible to the player. So nobody could use the surrounding bushes, trees, hills to hide or take cover. These tweakers would twist the game's graphics so much that it looked like they were playing the game using X-Ray vision in high-contrast mode. These players would argue "But the game let's you do this!", but the majority of other players would complain +(rightfully so) that they simply were not playing the same game we all were playing. They would sacrifice how the game looked and played to gain an unfair advantage, and then expect everyone else to accept their choices. There was no convincing these people otherwise. The game "allowed" it, so they did it. There was no "level playing field", and someone like me who wanted good graphics and good frame rate would be at a huge disadvantage to those who chose to play the game like they were wearing Night-vision goggles. This, in my mind, is cheating, and bringing the community down by forcing everyone to play the same way or get slaughtered. Some people have zero dignity or respect. How do you compete with that?