Hey Guys that was a great show. My name is Charlie Brown and I owned virtually all of those pedals. Dan Armstrong was a good friend, I had an account at Mannys and I was the lead guitar player in “Hair” over at the Biltmore Theater. I really liked hearing y’all talk about that era. It was a wonderful time to be in New York and in the music business.
Well, Charlie, they SPECIFICALLY asked (basically BEGGED) folks who were even REMOTELY involved in the scene to just answer a COUPLE, SIMPLE, questions, like "What was it like to buy a fuzz pedal from Manny's?" Or "What did they look like on the shelf?" Or "Did they have price tags on them?" These guys went to ALL this trouble to DRAG this weird pedal oddity out into the daylight, and now they're asking ALL OF US to HELP with ANY KIND of info that we CAN provide, to help solve this mystery... And then YOU show up, brag that you owned "virtually all" of these pedals and that you even had AN ACCOUNT AT MANNY'S, and yet, you didn't even ATTEMPT to answer ANY of their questions, or help to shed ANY LIGHT on the subject, when, IN THEORY, YOU'D be the PERFECT guy for the job... So, if you really are tellin the truth, and you WERE there, just LOOK at HOW MUCH trouble these guys went to to figure this MYSTERY out... And you aren't willing to answer a couple SUPER SIMPLE questions to help not only these guys, but ALL of us, the ENTIRE pedal community... Just opening your mouth and sayin a few words would mean SO MUCH to SO MANY... So, if you REALLY were there, have some human compassion, and tell these guys (and all of us) what your experience WAS like back then... And if you WEREN'T really there, man, you are absolutely the WORST kind of troll there is, lol...
@@ck2music712 - way too many CAPITAL LETTERS made your reply come over as overly bombastic and possibly even aggressive.. Maybe try again after a few hours meditation and a hit or three on your powerbong 🤡
Sir can you tell us if u recall pedals being sold in boxes or someother wrappings? Also did players began to be so obsessive about pedals back in those days?
@@sohosteveuk I don't expect folks to understand, but I have a tendency to type like I talk... So, if I want to EMPHASIZE a certain part, I capitalize it to show emphasis, lol... I didn't mean to come across as "bombastic" or angry, lol, and to Charlie Brown, if I DID come across like THAT, I apologize!
I say this every chance I get, but I was lucky to live in the Lake Isabella area of California, where I met Ed Sanners, the inventor of the Mosrite Fuzz Rite and his Sanners Amps. He was my guitar repair guy the whole time I lived in the area, and he loved to talk about his work. He was as sharp as a tack, and was in his mid to late 80’s when I moved to Seattle in 2015, but still played in two bands( bass guitar) great man, very kind, and I am proud to call him a friend. 😊
This works for vacuum tubes that the lettering has rubbed off of. Put the pedal in the freezer. Put the teakettle on. When the kettle sings bring the pedal into the steam allowing slight condensation to form. The vapor will form differently based on static charge and surface texture left by the lettering. Have a cup of tea to reward your efforts.
Lol, thanks for the tip, hoss, but I highly doubt that they're gonna take what very well may be the FIRST EHX pedal of all time and essentially pour hot water all over it, lol...
@@ck2music712 actual condensation layer will not be greatly different than that encountered when moving from any air conditioned club in the South to the car or van.
This. Whole. Freaking. Episode. It's amazing. This is why I love this channel. These long pedal history videos, and then this beautiful mystery of a pedal here. More of this. Please.
There are many processes that can be used that may make the old lettering clear. A simple black light is non invasive and may help. For more sophisticated processes you could talk to artefact restoration experts of large museums. I suggest you contact your largest state museum and explore options. If they can’t assist with recovery they will recommend restoration experts who can assist. Good luck.
Yes… if black light doesn’t make it obvious what’s going on, try multi spectral analysis (there are many types of multi spectral processing from cheap and cheerful to quite sophisticated). You can also rule out the “aftermarket fake” hypothesis by carefully comparing with original vintage fronts - assuming they weren’t hand lettered with Letraset lol
I'm quite sure I'm not the first person to point this out, but at 4:26 Dan is humming Cream, not Iron Butterfly. That riff is Sunshine of Your Love not the much more intricate In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida, which Josh pronounced correctly first try. Much better than my speech to text transcribed it as I'm driving down the road. Maybe y'all were troll-fishing, but Josh is the stickler for history. Between Vanilla Fudge and Iron Butterfly you can taste the future...
These are honestly my favorite episodes hands down. All the history of this stuff is incredibly fascinating, and all the speculation is enormously entertaining.
I just want to say I'm glad somebody likes pedals and pedal history this much. Usually, this type of talk and theorizing and investigation is only for video games or movie series and such. I like guitar more than that so I'm glad you guys are doing this.
Take it to a local university that has an "Electron-microscope" That can scan the top. We use them in Insect studies, review micro-size parts like mouthparts. It should reveal all makings and impressions, even shadows generated by the lettering. The lettering didn't just wear off all at one time, as we can see with the E-H Branding I see in the up close photo. I agree the only bootlegging at that time was mostly live music, and was relatively uncommon pre 68. I am a Taxonomic Entomologist not a pedal builder, but I cannot see any possibility of making a fake at that time frame, and there was no reason to. With the cost of the case at that time, It might be an exact case that got labelled to see what it looks like. It takes a very long time for stainless steel to rust.
that seems a bit overkill : just look at it under BLACK LIGHT ( or a camera with ultra violet and infra red capabilities ) ; polarizing filters ( physical ones ) can also work but probably much harder to find out there in the wild ...
Scanning electron microscope (SEM) would probably be the best for that. And good optical microscopy would probably be a good start and a lot easier to get done, with varying light polarization and wavelengths.
My first fuzz was a Maestro FZ-1 I bought off of my middle school health teacher. I think for $20. That was about 1970-71. I bought a Guild Foxy Lady around ‘73 or so. It said EHX inside. Just bought it a music store. I guess ir came in a white box. I also had a Mole Bass Booster and LPB-1. I bought a Maestro Bass Brassmaster from Manny’s around 1973 or so. I remember seeing ads in Guitar Player Mag. I think this mystery pedal might be a prototype. When I bought my Foxy Lady (three knobs straight across, offset logo… I guess it’s a Ram’s Head), there was also EHX Big Muff Pi’s on the market. It’s the same folded steel case. I believe he made them for other companies too. Fun Maestro Fuzz fact: it was designed for bass. I used mine with bass. Gibson even had a bass with the fuzz built in!
Some of your recollections are like mine. The one thing I remember about the LPB-1, it was one unruly son of a Gun. I think it was even labeled Treble Boost, I don't know if I owned it or if it was on loan. I also remember most likely borrowing a Fender Blender, I don't remember it really being of much good. Really the best distortion device I remember that I really liked was the one built into my Vox Super Beatle amp, that amp also had MRB footswitch, but to use the distortion it was in the brillant channel, the Normal channel had the MRB, I never thought to try the marshall trick and put a jumper between the 2 channels, that being an actual solid state amp, it might have smoked it, so kinda glad I did not try it. My 1st Fuzz would have been the Rosac NU FUZZ with wah, it eventually wore out pretty fast and was gone, broken.
@@ksharpe10 EHX had the Screaming Bird treble booster in the same form factor as the LPB-1 and Mole bass booster. I had a red Sekova copy of the Mole I used to plug into my Maestro Bass Brassmaster fuzz.
@@DavidRavenMoon The Screaming Bird I remember we may have had one of those at one time, that is why I remember the labeling treble Boost. I remember seeing Mole's, I never ran across one to try. A guy down the street used to play every song with a fuzz on, it got so redundent, we finally from harassing/suggesting, that he got out of it, and was using cleaner tones. My recollections of Terms we used from back in the early 70's are it was either a FUZZ, SUSTAINER, or a Booster, or the Term DISTORTION. I really do not remember the term OVERDRIVE til late 70's. At least in my area. Thanks for you knowledge.
I love this kind of deep dive into history. I know Josh has his favorite brands that he researches but I would love for JHS to present the products and history of Sholz Research & Development (aka Rockman).
Good stuff! I am fascinated by the history and appreciate Josh & Daniel volunteering to do the research necessary to enlighten us. The only request I have for these shows is: more, please.
I loved this show. It’s a great story - the mysterious pedal weaves a strangely compelling narrative through the tumultuous and dizzying history of the guitar pedal. The Red Violin comes to mind. Thanks for the conversation -hope we get a part 2!
As a kid in the 90’s, I thought all guitar players were these super human drug fueled rockstar gods. Now that I’m grown, I find out all guitar players are just a bunch of NERDS who hoard and obsess over the most insignificant details of little boxes containing a few basic electronic. Components… I’ve never felt more at home in a community.😂😂😂
Love the history episodes... You may want to contact a Collage or University metalergy department that can sciencetificly analyze every componant of the mystery pedal, likely for free as a project for the current class. Exact dating of the various companants (or other similar pedals for comparison) should easily be pinned down including where the metal or alloy was originally mined. The lettering shadows should also be fairly easy to analyze due to the remaining adhesive residue etched into the enclosure. My 2 cents!
Circa 1977/78, I was a junior at Boys' Trade High School, in the drafting shop, where I had access to Letraset lettering sheets. I knew of the already legendary Big Muff Pi from reading Guitar Player magazine and having seen/heard one played by an acquaintance who could actually play guitar (and had a Fender Twin Reverb to boot). Was I jealous? Ya think? I had some unbranded Japanese piece of trash shaped like a Tele that was unplayable - not that I could play - and a used Dwarf amplifier cuz I couldn't afford a real Pignose. I couldn't afford a Big Muff Pi, either, so I ended up with a Dan Armstrong Blue Clipper (only $15) instead. Wish I still had that thing. But I digress. Now, if I had gotten my hands on a generic fuzz box resembling the one in question here back then, might I have 'borrowed' some Letraset from the drafting shop and added Electro Harmonix and/or other lettering to it to make it cooler? Entirely plausible. Did I? No. But that certainly could have happened.
Expose it to different lights! It’s done in forensics. There are also computer programs that remove repetitive patterns (the scuffing) also done in forensics.
Imagine going to a thrift store and picking up a holy grail Fuzz. It genuinely scares me to think about all the beautiful guitar pedals lost to people either throwing them out, or giving them to thrift stores, then the thrift store throw them out, etc. Edit: Hendrix did use a 2 knob "Foxey Lady"esque looking fuzz at that Miami show. There are some pictures floating around of it, they're grainy and out of focus, but definitely a 2 knob silver wedge fuzz pedal, so safe assumption.
Bought a Sears Shi-Ei fuzz from the catalog around 1969, my Mom made me take it back-she came down the steps to the basement screaming at me like she was being stabbed by an axe murderer when I first let it rip In-A Gadda Da Vida style. Started jamming, parents bought me a Rosac NuWa-Fuzz. Wah part broke after about a year because of soft metal, still have the fuzz, fuzz still sounds and works great. When the wah on the Rosac broke I got a Big Muff Pi around 1971 at a Mom and Pop store for $45 in Oil City, Pennsylvania. First one I bought was defective-didn’t work at all, returned it-the old man gave me another one. Worked fine. Had also bought a Cry Baby wah in the meantime. BMP came in a packing style cardboard box I think. Sold the BMP when I was buying a Mesa/Boogie Mk ll head because fuzz was as out as it could be because Boogie and other master volumes were in. Except for songs back then that needed vintage fuzz, who wanted scrappy sounding fuzz for metal and rock in 1981? Now I have the BMP triangle reissue. Sounds just like I remember.
This was a good one guys. More EHX historials [sic] would be great... on par with your RATsterpiece is a lot to ask but... you know you wanna. And while I'm making foundationless requests, also in an ideal world maybe worth similar depth to this or that episode, how about a Mutron episode?? Either way, sincere gratitude for the deep cuts like this; your efforts appreciate: the information pays itself forward for others among us who are building and making, and we all appreciate you for it. Salud. PS: awesome hoodie Josh. I see how you did there...
I have the solution : just look at the mystery pedal under BLACK Light you can also photograph and film it under the black light + it costs next to nothing , very easy to find. you can also try under Ultra violet or Infra red but you need a special camera +filters ) any pro photographer would have filters , a gemmologist for ex would have all the gear , camera , filters + polarisation filters ( also a good idea to test : polarizing filters could be the best solution , but much harder to find )
Is the guts of this *EHX* pedal identical to a Fuzzrite? I'm just Imagining a box of extra stock that Mike had, chucked lettering on and sold because he could?
Hi, I'm actually the guy who sold you this pedal. Someone I know sent me a link to this video. I generally don't watch pedal videos but I'll do my best to watch this. I paid $10 for the pedal. If you want to see the high res photos I took just send me a message and I'll get them to you. Have you guys done a Klon video? I have a really old one I paid $239 for back when I was at Berklee in 1994/95! A little more of the story, the pedal was actually sold to a very well-known guitar player and I canceled the sale because I wanted to get it to someone who would really appreciate it. I'm glad you guys enjoy it. I don't know what this is but it is 100% old. When I bought it I knew it was cool. I couldn't find any information online. I did get laughed off of an internet forum for posting it. I agree with the guy with the Nike t-shirt, when I found it I knew it was a really old pedal. No way it's a fake anything, the parts and box are def really old. Please let me know if it makes it into the book and when that comes out! I'm glad you guys like it! Please let me know what you find out!
As a graphic designer and someone quite familiar with fonts - although I can’t see closely, it appears to me to say ‘Drive’ in a script font above the button. If that helps.
A possible theory: The bank foreclosed on Mosrite in ...1968 if my memory is right. Could the leftover Fuzzrite parts have been sold off and Electro Harmonix bought the parts to make some fuzz pedals?
I'm not saying definitely do this, because I really don't know if it would completely ruin the inclosure, but in knife making circles, ferric chloride, is used to bring out a pattern when multiple forms of metal or folded into one another. It reacts with metals heavy in nickel making it darker so it stands out better. It is possible that if you took a Quetip and wet it with the ferric chloride and lightly rubbed it over the area where the lettering was the left over residue from the lettering would protect the metal underneath it from reacting with the F.C.A. , but not the bare metal where there was no lettering and create a negative space bringing out said lettering. ( again, I do not know for sure that this would 100% work and could just end up creating more of a mess.) Also... did you try hitting it with a Black light/ UV light?????? ps. if you were to try ferric chloride, keep a bottle of windex near by, it will neutralize the acid and stop it from reacting to the metal, and save it from unnecessary damage. If the ferric chloride works, it should do so relatively quickly. I would suggest having a paper towel with window cleaner already applied to it so you can quickly stop the reaction when you're happy with the exposure. Start in the tiniest area possible first, this isn't one of those situations where you want to, " Go Big, or Go Home!!!", this is real, "C.S.I. Vintage Pedal", science stuff, so be gentle not to ruin the investigation. The case is riding on this. 😱
My guess is Mike was going to get in to the fuzz game as EH, built a prototype for production, but the LPB-1 was birthed right after. Mike being a good businessman said I’m getting behind this magic product instead of an already crowded fuzz market.
Josh, we need a BIG interview with Mike Mathews before he died!!!!!!!!. A pioneer and a big brand on market since 70s as you known. You can't miss him in a pedal history channel!!!!
To answer Josh's question at @18:30, try using UV in either B or C wavelengths... you MIGHT find something the highlights the letter residue. (be careful with the B wavelengths... don't burn up your eyes. UV-C is a little safer, but you still might want to pick up some UVEC (sorry, I used a brand name) safety glasses that filter UV B/C, then just sneak a peak around the edges to see what's on the pedal)** You can't 'fake' it by taking a standard photo then pass it thru photoshop filters.... you need to illuminate the actual surface. As another method, you can take a single-wavelength/visual blue light source in the 470 nm wavelength region...that's the wavelength most commonly used by dental-composite curing lights. (I'm a dentist and a former engineer.... my first technician-type job was at Tektronix in their Cameras/Photometers department, back in the late 70's) Single wavelengths of visual light (like the dental composite light) can reveal outlines as well.... I don't know of a variable-single-wavelength LED device, outside of some of the crazy Tek-lab stuff I worked with bitd (and those weren't LEDs). EDIT : If you can get a Q-tip swabbing of the pedal's surface, I think I can get it into a toxicology lab's Mass-spec and we can identify that musty odor. Being of east-coast origin, I'm betting hashish (rather than Owsley-residue). Not sure if you really want to know : "What is Mojo made of?" EDIT #2 : as a really bizarre bit of irony, I once owned a Mel-O-Bar 9 string slide guitar that was made from a bought-from-bankruptcy Mosrite body. Mel-O-Bar was an Idaho company, iirc. I wonder if there are records of who bought Mosrite parts between the 1968-1970 company-closure period. I understand that Semi's daughter still builds some custom Mosrites... perhaps she has access to those records?... tho I don't know if she wants to relive that part of the company's trials/tribulations just to satisfy some pedal nerds. ** OK, here are a couple safety caveats. Some (many) polished aluminums are a GOOD reflective/mirror surface for UV-C, therefore ne careful of your eyes. Some (many) stainless steels are POOR reflective/mirror surfaces for UV-C... the reflected light is of a different wavelength... Therefore it's a little "safer" to look at those reflections, even tho they are still in the blue-wavelength portion of the spectrum and all the caveats about intense blue light from computer screens apply here as well. This may actually be an application for one of those Ghost Hunters "full spectrum cameras" IFF they are sensitive into the UV-B/C region.
I just watched the recording of this stream. Josh asked about different ways to view and photograph this pedal. Have you considered photographing different wavelengths, including ultraviolet? Some famous paintings have been examined this way, and hidden painting layers have been found. Basically, what I'm saying is that there may be evidence of the lettering that's invisible to the human eye. ETA: Camera lenses that are polarized to block certain wavelengths would be handy to have.
A kid in the mid 70s is given a pedal from a friend of his father that plays in a showband. It's beat to hell, 1000 gigs under foot. Kid hand sands it down, copies some graphics or text from an ad in a magazine and letrsets them on. Coolest kid in school. I was that kid. Didn't do this one though 😄
Electro Harmonix, Manny's... Fixtures of NYC, with very long histories. You need to talk to the people that worked there. In the 80's, my friend's father was running Manny's, but he passed away in the 90's. His father Stuart Moskowitz, was nephew of original owners.
It is 1 of 3 things. 1) a proto ftpe pedel that got sold or gifted. 2) a hastily made pedel in the inbetween runs. 3) Home Brew Pedel by a cheap New englander who has built Heath Kit type projects. I think it #2, but it looks very much like like #3
It's probably already been mentioned but, black light it. If you've watched anything on the dead sea scrolls, they used different frequencies of light to bring out text not visible to the naked eye. Pretty sure you need a sensor that can see that spectrum though. Practically any digital camera can see farther into both ends of the light spectrum than the unaided eye, and will render a visible image. There are filters, screw on the lens, that will allow you to do this. A good place to start is Kolari filters. They have a lot of information on near infrared and ultraviolet photography. Drop them a line. Their filters aren't cheap but they might be easier to access than a scanning electron microscope. Good luck.
Generally not a fan of these type of episodes...BUT THIS ONE WAS FREAKING AWESOME! Totally brought out the pedal nerd in me. So much so that I was texting fellow guitar nerds
I actually didn’t notice you guys hadn’t played until you said something. This was my kind of Nerd shit. Pointlessly obsessing over these details is WHY I like vintage pedal Hunting.
I don’t want to throw a spanner in but, getting forensic on the hardware could answer some questions. Do the pots have codes? Those knobs look very early, were they changed?
If Mike Matthews said Hendrix was using some form of a “Big Muff/Proto/Triangle” pedal, then I believe him. He’s not basing it on pictures, he basing it off of being in Electric Ladyland. Hendrix did not take pedals he liked out on tour. He was a tone and texture/color explorer and if he had access to an early big muffish Matthews made device, then he would’ve used it. Listen to all his studio jams, they all sound different and the tapes aren’t the best. If he used an early muff, it would’ve been dialed back and not laying into it. This was just post Electriclady Land LP and Band of Gypsies studio recordings. Just a thought…
I need to see the inside. I am quite good with electronic forensics. Soldering style, wire types, connectors, switches… there is way more to it than just the outside of gear.
“Sprog”? You mean Sprague? I’ve been pronouncing it “Sprayg” with a long A vowel sound for decades… have I been saying it wrong? Great episode, regardless! I love this show! Big luv for Mass MoCA too.
I think what you have is a prototype of the original EHX AXIS fuzz. You can see this one only says "ELECTRO HARMONIX" at the bottom (Just like the earliest LPB-1) and not "ELECTRO HARMONIX NYC" as the AXIS actually does in all examples that I've seen. Who knows what all that original text said though, maybe LIDAR scan it for the lolz?
We have moved past the boutique pedal era and into the clickbait youtube video pedal era. Its actually really smart of JHS to make videos like this. RU-vid is a source of income, they can continue making pedals by putting focus on being sorta youtube personalities as well. If the boutique (expensive) pedal era is coming to an end, and customers are buying more budget circuits (like the line JHS offers) that could lead to a bunch of awesome weird cheap pedals like there was when I was starting out 20 years ago. Maybe people wont have a board with thousands of dollars in pedals on it, but a few simple effects and maybe 1 really nice one. By doing a budget line, you can pretty much sell somebody a cool cheap chorus, tuner etc, then they can buy a specialty pedal from you to top it off.
I had a Nu-Wa Fuzz or two and they had the sprague module for the fuzz, one wah was discreet and the other was sprague. Is this fuzz circuit the same as the Fuzzrite or is it different? I know they were both Ed Sanner designs.
I still have the Rosac NuWa-Fuzz my parents bought me in about 1970 when I was 16. The wah pedal broke in half because of the soft metal. The fuzz still sounds great and classic. About a year later after the wah broke I got a BMP triangle and Cry Baby wah. Used that until I got master volume mod done on a 1964 Fender Twin.
I enjoyed Dan and you guys talking about this pedal. I think EHX is cool, but i love my Acid Tone/fuzz rite pedal. I also have an EHX Satisfaction pedal and it's pretty good. It needs a large capacitor value to sound it's best, something larger than .022 uF preferably.
The " logical" theory based on science fiction is that Daniel has in his possesion an artifact from a parallel universe in which Ehx built the Mosrite and disappeared. Meanwhile Guild became a prolific pedal company that built all the Ehx pedals we have known on this universe. Also time traveling rogue visitor left that pedal after taking guitar lessons from Jimi Hendrix. 😁It doesnt matter we pedal fanatics enjoyed the episode and dang just the one chord Daniel played gave me GAS for that sound. Keep rocking. May the force be with Nick too. He reminds me of a young Luke Skywalker.
Ha Ha! I can’t afford to be an actual pedal collector… but I’ve got soooooo many!! I’d Love to go on the adventures with you Dudes. Additionally… sometimes, not knowing the answer to certain things, is so Cool… cuz you get that mystery vibe, that rides your Joy about the subject in general… and adds another facet to whatever that subject you Dig is. Just remember, I was (trying) to say something there. Ha Ha! ((Love you knuckleheads!))
Regarding: (1) authenticating the date based on weathering, and (2) revealing the full lettering on the face of the pedal. Perhaps Scott Walter could help? If not, it's highly likely he could point you in the right direction, or clear up what's currently possible. "Scott Wolter is a world-renowned forensic geologist and president of Minnesota-based American Petrographic Services. He began developing a new science called "archaeopetrography," a scientific process used to date and understand the origins of mysterious stone artifacts and sites. The first artifact Scott studied was the Kensington Rune Stone". If the name sounds familiar, Scott had a TV show on A&E called "America Unearthed".
I own a fuzz pedal in a typical FUZZrite enclosure but the graphics say "Pro-Fuzz". It's a mystery to me. The circuit is point to point (as far as I can tell) and the transistors seem to be germanium. It sounds very bright and loud. I also own one of those GUILD Foxy Lady pedals (which is a FUZZrite inside) and one early Triangle Big Muff. The Pro-Fuzz sounds like neither of these. ...What is it?? Please help!!
