Ok, so I watched and listened to the entire episode and I really have nothing more to add to my pre-episode comment except this: I agree with Rain, he didn't say anything that I was not in agreement with. I also agree with what you said in your outro Dillon. The animals needs both under captive management and in the wild are what we need to be focusing on, not what people want, not money, not human self-interest. The animals are in the circumstances they are in through no fault of their own, it is because of us. We have a duty and responsibility to provide them with the best lives possible given the circumstances and that is not drawer. I came into snake keeping and consulting about 5 years ago now from the horse, dog, and zoo world. As a whole reptile keepers are their own worst enemy and I am generally embarrassed by them. I am seeing more and more progressing keeping and people speaking up more and more for the animals and that does give me hope for the future.
I think his points on caring for the animals was great. I disagree wholly that somehow it’s USARK’s burden to promote welfare. They lobby Congress and state legislatures. I’m all for centralized and regulated keeping, but I don’t ever see that happening from USARK. They’re not a large organization and they’re extremely busy just battling legislation.
@@LetsTalkHerps Yes they are just a one man show but his point was that with the money derived from registering your animals pedigree, a staff could be hired to manage ALL the registration tasks PLUS generating more money that USARK could use to fight legal battles with. The difficult part is the beginning before a single dollar rolls in. I would love to hear exactly how to bridge from there to the point the money comes in. I think it may have to start with some dedicated volunteers to launch a registry.
I don't think USARK should be policing individual people or anything, but if their going to (in theory) argue against bad legislation they need to have some standard in mind of what is/isn't acceptable care both from an animal welfare standpoint and a public/ecological safety standpoint. If they're just going to say no regulation ever is OK, people *will* just ignore them.
So, before I watch this: US Ark has never responded to any of my attempts to communicate with them, they are not an organization for animals, they are an organization for keepers. The serve a function to alert people to reptile legislation and there is a place for that but the organization presents the legislation in their own words which upon reading the documents myself is often not what the actual documents state. I appreciate the alerts and then I research them for myself and make my own decisions as to whether to support or oppose it. Rather than change US Ark, they are what they are, there really should be a reptile organization that is placing what's best for the animals under captive management first, regardless of what is convenient and profitable for people. I will watch and comment again. Thanks as always Dillon.
Very well said, Lori! That is a sentiment I hear quite often. I think you’re right, USARK is probably not the organization to spearhead captive welfare. Something new is needed.
I CAN REACH OUT TO VANESSA OR OTHERS INVOLVED WITH USARK AND GET A RESPONSE WITHIN HOURS. i dont understand this "they never respond to me? I know if i can get a response you for damn sure can get a response! youre a absolute diamond in the hobby Lori!! come on!!
@@caughtafaygo Months ago I tried contacting them to see if they knew anything about Born Free USA and World Animal Protection US and if they’ve been involved in any legislation that they’ve seen pop up, no response. Maybe filling out the contact form on their website is the incorrect way to go about talking to them?
Great conversation guys! USARK does need to evolve. At the same time they do serve a purpose for me. I want them to keep working as a legislation watch/advocate. However, they lack actionable substance when it comes to animal welfare and captive management integrity. Taking an ambiguous stance is taking a stance. And I get it...they can't bite the hand that feeds them...but maybe they need a new master.... Freedom REQUIRES responsibility. The community MUST improve accountability with welfare and captive management or we will eventually be legislated into extinction. To be blunt laws are nothing more than the collective opinion of the majority on any subject at the given time. If we truly want to change/stop the collective opinion (aka Laws) from limiting what we can keep then we need to represent ourselves in a manner in which when highlighted it is self-evident to be respectable. The average voter and/or legislator only looks at face value and most people can see the difference between ethical responsible care and poor/reckless care (and yes there still is an abundance of ignorance too). So how can we go before any lawmaker and say what we want to do is legit when many times it actually isn't.
Just a small point, "the laws are nothing more than the collective opinion of the majority on any subject at the given time" If this was the case, w eed would be legal, and there wouldn't be people worried that rights to counterceptive are about to be taken away. Gerry meandering and unequal representation (like electroal college, with those of in CA's vote for president having a lot less weight then those living in small states) means the laws are the collective opinion of those in power, however they got in power. And so those are people who will implement the laws are those folk and those will have to be swayed. Those why having lobby power is very important.
I just feel that even if USArk is an organization primarily focused on the rights of keepers rather than the animals themselves, they still have an obligation to prevent and speak out against heinous cruelty, which they do not, unless it's from a Wildlife officer. They are completely fine with the horrible atrocities committed by the larger mass breeders with deep pockets. Worse, you will see or meet younger breeders that seem much brighter and more compassionate about their animals, but these toxic men exert such influence they crush the kindness out of younger people coming in (or buy them off with gifts monitors or god knows what else,) and make sure that toxic cancer spreads to maintain their position. Newer younger people are basically "taught" to not speak up or to be shut out of this tiny community so they fall in line. Also, in the big scheme of things, USArk's own negligence in addressing issues leads to animals like Burmese pythons being banned. Their tactics are very short sighted and based in greed and laziness with an inevitable outcome of being banned, predictable. Making thoughtful decisions for a sustainable, humane business model just isn't their forte, every decision seems like the bargain basement cash grab approach to sales. So in the big scheme of things, they aren't really helping anyone.
I need to get in touch with Rain. I tried to find Canis Codex but the search engines couldn't find that. Almost all breed organizations start with enthusiastic volunteers. I am a disabled veteran at 80% and so I have time to put in the early free work it takes to set up. I am 61 and most likely don't have the time left to make a difference in hobby by being a breeder. But I have the time and the skills to work to found a registry. I have a BS in Graphic Design and in the Army I was Psychological Operations (political propaganda/advertising). I was also the physical/training records keeper for my battalion. Rain speaks of having the playbook for setting this up. I would like to talk with him about it. With the islands sinking to rising ocean levels it is critical for many species to get recorded in order to save them. There aren't enough zoos to save everything. We need to step up and do our part.
In regards to Health Insurance for exotics: I tried Nationwide for my birds. A month after signing up, I go to the only exotics vet in the city that is listed as taking Nationwide insurance. Basic annual checkup. Insurance refused to pay any part of it when provided with the invoice. It may work well for cat, dog, and horse owners, but not any other pet owners I know.
The studbook needs to happen. The insurance should happen. When an animal is Cites listed and no more fresh blood can come in then the pedigrees are critical.
USARK has been made aware of at least two different large-scale animal abuse cases at the hands of their members. They have done nothing about it. Instead, Phil Goss warned against the release of the Samson Pruitt/Slither facility photos. If they cannot speak out against animal abuse from their members, what does that say about them?
Great to see Rain back again and mind blowing episode. If we stay open minded, then this episode isn't controversial, but a catalyst to better animal care.❤
Before I even watch this episode I just have to say, I was highly disappointed with USARK’s presentation at the meeting with FWC regarding the Holy Thursday Massacre. It became clear to me at that time that USARK as it is now is not the organization I want representing our hobby and its legislation.
Not sure the American dog societies should be put on a pedestal for practices given they are fine with and promote ear cropping and tail docking, practices that are seen as illegal, barbaric and unethical in many countries. Working dogs is another thing but they are not show dogs and what work can many of those breeds do that is legal or ethical? Like in the UK many bull breeds have illegally cropped ears or tails and they have no way of being a working dog. How many people have working dogs? Shows might further promote unethical activities, what standards are they using. Look at the criticism from the Kennel Club in the UK... and they have banned ear cropping and tail docking due to it being unethical, they are also working out how to change their breed standards for the health of the animal. Regarding Wales checking enclosures (I think that was mentioned), they are under the same legislation as us in England I believe and that is only for DWA species e.g. certain venomous snakes or anything deemed a particular danger to people. Boa constrictors, Burmese pythons are not DWA, there are no checks but the animal welfare act 2006 covers how they should be kept, also the pet shop licensing legislation from 2019 on their selling.
it strikes me as this: oversight is inevitable. either it is government oversight, which means when people kick up a fuss they are shot down by already established laws. or it is organised oversight, which shoots down arguments by having the weight of keepers behind it. either way rules get set out and enforced. one way restricts what is possible and will likely remain that way forever, but the worst elements get severely punished. the other is free to adjust to new information, and actively rewards the best keepers by making their animals much more valuable. i know which i would prefer. i argue that there are too many organisations around, all with their own agendas and focus. we need one central organisation that is funded and can throw their weight around where it is needed. and a financial incentive is undoubtedly the easiest way to achieve that. one other thing is the comment about total animal bans. yes, i do believe it will get to that point. it will then come down to a legal battle that will decide whether it is acceptable to keep animals period. it would be a legislative bloodbath. i would rather we were under one umbrella when that happens. make ourselves the legal equivalent of a spartan phalanx, powerful and moving as one mass.
It feels so good to hear someone in the community acknowledge the problems in Florida. There is such a feeling of entitlement people have in the US when it comes to pets. Like, no dude, the burmese ARE a problem. Obviously if we don't have proper registration and paperwork systems for keeping track of animals- and plenty have already escaped and started bredding in the wild- we shouldn't breed them there anymore. Ppl always bring up cats and dogs being invasive to kill the argument about our reptiles- and it's true that as a whole cats/dogs cause a lot of damage.... DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACT 200 REPTILES ARE ALSO STILL CAUSING TROUBLE. The arguement quickly becomes "but I *want* it" 😢 not " we're doing what's best for captive and wild animal welfare"
I would love more affordable insurance options for exotics. It's pretty expensive right now, but it would help a lot given any vet trips and make it harder to have our animal confiscated or euthanized. As someone with a large snake not from a breeder in a state starting restrictions, I have opted to keep all vet paperwork and microchip him just incase.
thats why im doubtfull that i wil be able to realize my ultimate goal ( blood pythons with exceptionaly flat and wide heads). conformation seems to be something more quickly developed in the mammals ive seen, but non exsistant for the most part( at least it seems like thats the case)
Yes, I think morphological changes are much less likely to occur in reptiles. I’m sure it can be done, but it would probably take an incredible amount of time.
You and Rain are capable, intelligent guys. If USARK is not keen on this registration project, what's to stop other individuals or a collection of individuals to organise their own thing? I bet that USARK would come around and see the benefits and want to work together then, they just don't want to take on even more than they are doing now. I've been thinking and saying for a while that I think that pet owners should be registered and that they should register the animals they keep, and for standard of care to be regulated. This is very anti the Wild West mentality that reptile owners and breeders are used to, but the way things are going it seems like it's either something like that or a total ban on the hobby in the not too distant future. Like you have said, keeping these animals is a privilege and not a right. I am constantly at odds with my love for all animals including reptiles and the ethics of keeping them, and being part of a community by proxy that I often am ashamed of. This includes dogs too by the way, as I am a trainer and often see substandard care/approach in my training classes. Me and my colleagues do our best to inform and educate and spend a lot of our time convincing owners of a certain approach, but people are going to do what they want in the end because there is nothing holding them back. We can do so much better, as the dominant species on this earth it is our duty to do right by other animals.
People aren't listening. They need someone already established to push it, I have interviewed rain, and there I'd say feel it is worth it. Even if it would save money and animals, people still feel they don't need it
This is one of my favorite episodes yet. what @loritorrini said in her comments below are 100% what I've been feeling/thinking myself lately, and Rain is so spot on! So so grateful that you both are willing to talk about this so openly and frankly. I recently became a USARK member in the hopes that there might be more to it... and have been thus far disappointed. Why there are no major organizations dedicated to actual education about the animals and their husbandry, no requirements that the information should be present and readily available to folks at reptile shows, and why there aren't more clear regulations about keeping the animals in a welfare-based method seems obvious- because no matter what people say, it's not about the animals, it's about the people and their "rights" to sell and keep. The "conservation" aspect is total BS. Designer animals wouldn't survive in the wild if we tried to reintroduce them- which we wouldn't/aren't- and mass breeding facilities are not ethical or conservation focused in any way shape or form. What part of USARK's effort is going towards conservation of natural habitats? I can't tell, because there's no more than what's on the website, and no more that goes out to members than alerts about a bill that's being fought. I want to keep my animals, so I appreciate someone catching that stuff and ensuring I can, but there are some serious issues that are being missed here that need to be focused on. Thank you, Dillon! You and Rain are doing such good work in calling attention to this publicly.
I agree that the hobby would benefit from more infrastructure, but why expect one single organization to handle such diverse functions as registration, husbandry standards, record-keeping, insurance, and conservation? That's a wide array of specialized areas of expertise. I've never seen USARK as "the voice of the hobby." It's a special interest organization representing exotics keepers (not exclusively reptiles, either) that is good at its core mission, especially given its level of funding and staffing. There's nothing to stop hobbyists from creating additional organizations to fill those other needs. As for what those groups should look like, I must say my experiences with organizations like AKC, CFA, and AQHA, have led me to being intensely leery of the standard domestic animal registry model. The same problems crop up over and again. An excessively rigid definition of purebred results in a limited gene pool. That lack of diversity is compounded by breeders focusing on a very narrow range of acceptable phenotypes. Competition encourages producing ever more extreme body types in the quest for "the best." Genetic issues caused by inbreeding show up that result in even more health problems. And those big money registries protect at all costs the big name breeders and exhibitors who pump money into their coffers. That's to say nothing of the AKC's deep, deep ties to the puppy mills via registration fees. Seriously, if EVER there were a registry that should be used as a cautionary tale, not a goal to strive for, it's AKC. I was there at its peak in the early 90s, and have watched its precipitous crash ever since. I feel the mass abandonment of that organization is well, well deserved, and I was dismayed to see how often it was mentioned in this episode as a positive force. Look into their connection with Petland, arguably the most notorious of all the US big box pet stores. They say the right words, but they don't back them up with action unless the media gets involved in a specific case. These same issues pop up with other registries, too. Look at an AQHA halter horse, a CFA Persian, or the TWHBEA "big lick" walking horse as examples of the kind of ext. Even performance-based organizations are far from immune to turning a blind eye to welfare issues when they're inflicted by the "popular kids" - look at rollkur in USDF and NRHA. Reptile breeding would probably be very challenging to adapt to a domestic animal model anyway. They are often colony bred, making identifying the mom difficult or impossible in many cases. Females can retain sperm. And most species can't be tattooed, microchipped, or DNA-tested to verify parentage the way other species can be. I'm sure the zoological community has found ways to work around these issues, and hopefully that can be the hobby's model if it decides to make registration a priority. As for the lack of legal requirements for reptile health testing on imports and crossing state lines: Aren't most of those rules driven by concerns over transmission of diseases that affect humans, crops, and commercial livestock? If nido reduced milk yields in dairy cattle, then the government would be very concerned. Short of issues like that, it's probably not in their financial interest to pursue regulation. Long before I'd support shutting down reptile breeders in Florida, I'd take a good long look at the wisdom of having a major port for tropical plants in Florida. Reptile keepers and fish farms absolutely have contributed to the invasive species problems, but we're FAR from the only source of contamination. I'd love to see us be more of a part of the solution by bringing (more of) those animals into human care. Cuban tree frogs, for example, can be awesome pets, and were very popular in the trade back in the 70s and 80's.
@@ZaryaTheLaika I haven't followed the purebred dog scene very closely for several years, but have been hearing encouraging things about the Finnish KC. Had never heard that context for part of why those programs may have come to be. Fascinating. Thanks so much for sharing that information. I do remember watching the Saluki Club of America struggle to maintain diversity of genetics and breed type against the relentless pressure from the AKC to standardize on a single type, despite the breed having always had a range of sizes and types. The club even maintained an outcross "desert bloodline" with occasional imports that was adjacent to the main registry. I hope they succeeded. By way of contrast, I remember when the Basenji Club of America imported quite a number of dogs from Africa in an effort to fight the widespread genetic condition Fanconi Syndrome. Most of those imports were subsequently spayed and neutered without being bred because those as-authentic-as-they-get native dogs were deemed "not good enough" by Western show standards. An amazing and expensive opportunity to diversify the genetics of a breed with a very narrow base (less than a dozen founding members, IIRC) thrown away in the interest of making the best *show* Basenji, not the best Basenji dogs.
Regarding Florida and catching wildlife for pets. I didn't understand why this isn't done, then I found out that there's been issues with people releasing animals so they breed, then capturing their offspring. I believe chameleons in Florida are the example I heard for that. Then there's also issues like paying for capture of invasive rats, people end up delibratily breeding rats IIRC (not Florida, I think this was for a pandemic spread by rats) So, the worry if monetarily incentive capturing invasive animals can lead contribute to that type of stuff happening. So, non-profits would probably be better, but there's been a lot of corruption in all types of non-profits also... there's just so much crappy people all around.
I mean, one of their former presidents was under indictment for wildlife trafficking when he died. Granted, seemed to be buying CBB tortoises from bent zookeepers rather than smuggling them out of the wild but still...
I’ve been looking for an ACTUAL veterinarian for my reptiles…. (I have been burned many times by ‘registered’ herp & exotic/small animal vets who have checked boxes to promote themselves as such, but my reality is that they have literally only taken a single class that ‘blankets’ reptiles, or even a single certificate obtained by attending a single seminar that allows them to advertise as reptile vets. (Several have told me this.) LONG story short, the exotic reptile ‘specialists’ told me to make sure I had: •at least 2 filters in my turtle tanks ( *DUH, already have ALWAYS done that* ) •or make SURE I have a basking spot available ( *are you SERIOUS???!!! I’ve always had 2, & check temp all the time* ) • 29:27 or to ‘make sure & get them UV lighting’ ( * are you SERIOUS? * 🤦🏼♀️) (Over the years, I had a turtle rescue with respiratory disease… & later a rescue bearded dragon with what appeared to be Star Gazers disease, & later 2 beardies that needed urgent/emergency care for extreme lethargy- (As a lifelong reptile keeper, it has been insulting how LITTLE vets around here care & how little THEY know about reptiles.) (I have Snapping turtles I want to get annual exams, & I have a specific one that I want to have the shell checked out since it looks like it has dry outlines in the middle (not shell rot)-
Thanks for this video. I could never support USARK, at least as long as they have people like NERD etc. being their public face. I cannot bring myself to associate with people who treat animals like that.
I have been trying to become a reporter for usark, I did an interview with Daniel Parker from usarkfl, and made sure to talk about conservation efforts from them. That is why I want to report for usark
I think a big issue is man power at USARK. I also think it is a fine line between an organisation to fight for your rights regardless vs fighting for your rights because legislation is Incorrect. For those that want to see the UK/ Europe equivalent, check Responsible Reptile keeping (RRK). A Great litmus for an organisation
Weirdly reminded me of older gay guys when talking about older guys being stubborn to change due to history of hobby being illegal (as gay stuff is sometimes to illegal also, and there's a stubbornness to change some aspects to be safer and that's partially likely due to that history of being illegal/shamed). I get not wanting to be a list -- lists can be misused to target people (and their animals in this case). It's something that some of us trans folk are scared off atm. However, I was suprised finding out there wasn't already a list/registration, particular in dart frogs where conservation is focus. Seems like the solution to people wanting to do morphs: do the conversation with registration, and let those other folk do morphs like in other hobbies instead of shunning them out of the hobby. More people in the hobby, more resources the hubby has. Also, the lack of min standards has been a bit odd. Including for fish -- like at least for advertising of enclosures, shouldn't be acceptable to advertise a tiny enclosure with a bearded dragon or a 1 gallon ball for a betta! The better we care for the pets, the longer and healthier and easier they are, and that's better for the hobby for same reason -- the more people in hobby, the stronger the hobby is. So why isn't there an organization rating enclosures for safety, for animal suitability? I think it'd be better for it to not be US ARK -- US Ark being fairly bland and being acceptable to a wide type of reptile keepers allows it to outreach to a wide variety of people, and so can reach and get people to listen that many others. Some of it is likely this is a newer hobby, vs we've been living with dogs for so long. We as a species know hot to care for dogs more -- with reptiles/frogs, there's so much conflict and disagreements on what proper care is. Like, I respect your standards also, but there's experienced keepers that likely hate you cause like cohabbing topics and such. What would you do if such regulation organization strictly regulated co-habbing? As can see with dogs research around hormones/mental health, poorly studied wellness research and biases/needs may lead to regulation enforcing something that may be overall bad for the pet.
I would love to see you reference and cite the animal welfare science journals and papers. This would be a huge help to me as I like to see the data. Perhaps you've done this and I just I haven't watched enough of your videos.
It really depends on what you are looking for, but I will list some below: www.behavioreducation.org/lori-s-work-where-to-find www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0168159121002227#:~:text=Not%20providing%20sufficient%20space%20to,impacts%20negatively%20on%20their%20welfare. www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0168159121001118#:~:text=Enrichment%20is%20beneficial%20to%20the%20behaviour%20and%20welfare%20of%20captive%20snakes.&text=We%20recommend%20that%20captive%20snakes%20should%20be%20kept%20in%20enriched%20conditions. www.mdpi.com/2673-5636/2/4/51 www.mdpi.com/2076-2615/10/11/2021
Im not sure what precisely you mean by "brought" there, and its certainly possible some burms were already released into the everglades before then, but a breeding facility WAS in fact smashed open by hurricane andrew and its snakes were released. That may not have been the initial incident of burms being in florida but it certainly made it worse.
@@jonsweeney4347What is the name of the facility? What was the location? Who owned it? & how come no one knows the name…. How do you spread this information from word of mouth but not have the answer to those 3 simple things
Yeah, obviously hurricane Andrew made the situation worse, but odds are that Burmese pythons would become established either way. Plus even before hurricane Andrew both caiman and marine file snakes were established long before hurricane Andrew because of the pet trade. While there actually is a good argument for iguanas being established naturally as they were sighted long before the pet trade became common, the pet trade certainly sped up the spread of iguanas as well.
There is no evidence to suggest that a viable population of Python bivittatus was established until well after 1992. If you understand the research and the pattern of introduction. The (Andrew theory) is a far more likely scenario than introduction via the random release of unwanted pets. @@gv2817
I agree, they were already a breeding population, but they were only establishing themselves slowly, the hurricane made it worse, but then with the excuse of the hurricane, I'm betting more pet owners felt no guilt about releasing their pets. Honestly, this nonsense that no exotic reptile keepers ever release their pets and everything is just hunky dory in Florida makes my head explode. Every Easter, STILL, bunny rescues make their announcements not to buy your kid a rabbit for Easter and still they are dumped in droves after Easter, after Holidays like Christmas, when the family gets sick of the new puppy or kitten. Look what happened during COVID? People emptied the shelters and as soon as life went back to normal, shelters were overwhelmed with people trying to dump their pets. The lunacy that somehow, the guy who bought an animal that can grow to 20 FEET for 100 bucks is somehow the epitome of a responsible pet owner is the dumbest argument on the planet. If USArk had their shit together and the breeders worked to have some sort of registry or another way the animals were accounted for, if there were standards on who could own the animals, if there were a LICENSE required, just you need for a dog? But they reject anything like that, it's all about selling as many animals as possible to anyone with a buck knowing full well most live short, miserable lives in small boxes or get dumped somewhere. They don't care where the animals end up just as long as they can keep pumping them out and hoodwinking clueless or delusional people to buy them.
I am so flummoxed by the notion that USARK is supposed to, or is even capable of, policing this community. 1) I believe USARK has one full time employee - Phil. Are we supposed to expect Phil to be the arbiter of reptile welfare on his own? Do we want lawyers defining animal welfare or should this be done by a welfare centric org? 2) they are extremely busy with what they DO do, which is represent a membership based collective of reptile keepers before courts and congress to ensure that our rights to sue process are not infringed with new legislation. 3) they have worked in local communities to draft new legislation and permitting processes to avoid all out bans. They don’t simply speak out against all legislation sight unseen. USARK and USARKFL regularly mention ‘partnering’ with legislation. 4) we have groups that deal with animal welfare - ASPCA is a pretty decent one that isn’t as extreme as HSUS or PETA. They have like 1,000,000x the resources USARK has to stand up for reptile welfare standards. Would it be great if USARK was also the go to organization that could promote new welfare standards for all species throughout the hobby? Of course! But they are not equipped to do that and I would wager that if they tried, they would fail. Big huge shoutout to the venomous keepers who didn’t sell to Rain because he isn’t a member.
He mentions that AKC brings in 60 million annually.but you don’t hear cries for them to be the standard of dog husbandry the same way people cry for USARK to regulate reptile husbandry.
Not sure PETA even deals with welfare, animal rights yes (not that that improves the welfare of any animal) but they really have no idea what they are doing or about what they are saying. They say a lot of strange things and myths based on a lack of knowledge it seems about basic animal biology, welfare etc. I would like to see people maybe instead of complaining about a lobbying organization maybe conversing with real animal welfare groups or rescues. What can they do, can everyone join together. Honestly looking at what USARK does it's actually more then people think, dealing with legislation is actually a lot of work and skill. It's not as big as other organizations so there is limited power or ability. I'm from the UK so no experience with USARK but we have somewhat similar things. I don't think the complaining about USARK is helping reptiles, people or anything, as it's not actually improving reptile welfare anyway.
floridian breeding facilities are probably the largest reason that the hobby even exsists let alone had the massive growth we have experienced. im not saying that he is wong, maybe those places have had their time and that time is over, i dont know. that first statemet, i think you will find unavoidably true.
alot of culture clash, also. I suppose both of the "dynasties" had evolved to survive in the environments of the times. folks nowadays take a hard line sometimes bordering on hysteria when it comes to animal husbandry related mortality, and rightly so for the most part as most of the guess work has been eliminated. Flip that coin back a couple of decades and transversley you might be shocked at the relaxed attitude people had at the same mortality (only @ a higher rate!) because you would have to because alot of what herpetaculturists where doing would still be considered winging it, making the trial by error descisions that would lay the foundation for the oncoming years. Just culture clash, both generations are equaly as valid, simply a matter of not being able to stomach one another.@@AnimalsatHomePodcast
There are a lot of issues with UsArk. When UsArk first started up. I was one of the first guys Andew contacted. Andrew understood I brought a lot more to the table than just the, it's my right argument. (what do you think is your right), rights don't come with permits. I had no interest because I know what you're dealing with. And the internet has made things 1000 times worst. Tom Crutchfield is the king of threatening people, and he is a violent sociopath for sure, or more accurately Antisocial personality disorder.
I thought Crutchfield turned over a new leaf? He's constantly posting stuff about providing the animals larger spaces and keeping less animals, isn't that a good thing? In the end isn't only the animals that really matter?
@@honeybeeart9382 Yeah, is he? The message might be nice. Also trendy, bandwagon jumping. At the core of his concern. It's not about the animals, it's about him. The reinvention of his image to make himself look good. That's one of the trademarks of someone with an Anti-social personality disorder.
@@ernesteison7979 Okay, but in the big scheme of things, if the animals benefit, does it matter? If he gets an ego boost from the attention he gets for doing the right thing, as long as the positive environments he provides for those animals are genuine, should we care? There are lots of people that mindlessly try to emulate men like him, isn't it better they copy new Tom instead of old Tom and some of the breeders still clinging to horrible, antiquated practices?
@@honeybeeart9382Probably sounds better than it is. I don't think he's introducing anything new to anybody or setting an example. Anyone with an internet connection has already seen and heard the same thing a million times already. They just want stories from the legend. Supporting a monster is never a good thing. It might get a better paint job but... The way animals are commercially maintained and produced is not going away anytime soon.
@@honeybeeart9382yes he posts invasive species he feeds & cares for in his yard (same neighborhood where FWC catcher Tegus). The invasive species live nowhere close anywhere else…. Just his property/neighborhood
That’s exactly how registrations work you have to pay for paper work and transfer of ownership for litters . It’s not cheap to print those papers , ink lots of printers workers , linen paper . All you see is the selling of an animal and having to pay the point of buying pets is to keep them not to sell them but if you have to sell them at least you have a service that provide what you need .
