Speaking as a BRZ owner, you really captured the essence and appeal of the GR86/BRZ in this video. Your point about these cars being learning tools is underrated. A couple of weeks ago my friend told me he was having a hard time pushing his s2000 and asked me to drive it for him in the canyons while he rode along. After the first run, he was like wow you look so comfortable/smooth pushing it, and all I could think to say is the BRZ is a fantastic teaching tool. I don’t think that’s what he expected me to say, but honestly I think that’s the reason. It’s hard to think of another car that’s as balanced, but forgiving at the limits.
I’m considering trading mine towards an S2000. It’s just such a legendary car and such a good sports car. Add to that the option to drop the top on a beautiful day, just a great car.
Idk about paying the same money for a 20 YEAR OLD CAR that'll perform roughly the same. No matter how reliable it is, it's 20 years old. Things are always going to be breaking whether major parts or minor things. Your money though.
@@kempj5273 The S2000 seat does recline but not much given it’s a small car. I personally only hate that I can’t lower the driver seat. The S2000 steering wheel also isn’t adjustable. I ended up buying a lower driver seat bracket to fix the driving position in my S2000. I love my S2000, but I would had considered buying the GR86 over the S2000 if I had that option two years ago.
As an FK8 owner and previous GR86 owner, I will say the GR86 is more for fun, and a better tool for learning then most cars. Everything you said it's pretty much true. If you prefer lightweight rwd cars, this car is awesome! The FK8 is more serious feeling, and the GR86 is more playful. The FK8 when you go fast you know its the engineering of the car vs the GR86 its more of the driver being more involved and more skilled. Both great cars, you just gotta chose what you value more. Personally I enjoy the FK8 more and what it offers me.
@@CesarMartinez-gl9ko you really should drive both. I find Lotus to generally be more fun, but the GTS is going to likely have better fit and finish along with better support and a much larger dealer network.
I watched this even tho i own a GR86 lol. i fit your recommendation: young professional, wanted something engaging to drive and trackable, not really a huge fan of convertibles and the ND overall, not a fan of the BRZ's styling and understeer handling. i also have non-car friends who find it ridiculous i own two cars (kept my accord--hyper reliable, comfy, and better gas mileage for long drives with very limited resale value anyway), but around my age of late 20s/early 30s its pretty rare to find folks into cars at all, let alone able to purchase a dedicated weekend/track car. so i get why it's surprising and i know i'm lucky to be able to own and enjoy the car.
Great video, very valid points especially concerning practicality and price. Everything else is almost entirely subjective. For me, it’s a nd2 mx5 soft top. I just get more pleasure with having a drop top that lowers and raises in 2 seconds...open air experience just adds to the thrill and speed sensation, even though it’s not a “fast” car per se. The transmission is great, and the gear box on the nd2 is arguably one of the best if not the best of any manual available. Love your vids. ✌🏻 🤙🏻
Great job describing what’s important (driving experience) in a car. My GR86 is on order. I’ve been a lifelong BMW owner/ enjoyer and when my daily, a 2000 540i manual M sport became too unreliable as a daily I thought I would get a 230i. I learned that one can’t get a manual unless it’s a $60k M2 that’s now ugly and approaching 4000 lbs, $65,000 and as you say not light and nimble like my older BMW loves. The GR86 is in my mind old school BMW. P.S. love your “ Spec Sheet Warriors“ term 😂. I will remember that ! I know lots of Spec Sheet Warriors. 😂
Thank you for this succinct explanation of the FR86/BRZ’s winning formula. Keep it simple and affordable, and focus on driver enjoyment and development.
Miata - I chose to live with the compromised space, and if I really need more cargo capacity, I can ask my brothers/parents to help me haul stuff in their CUVs, ha! With coilovers, it really does feel like a go-kart driving around the city (so much fun!). Plus, no V8 wants to drag race because ofc they'll win. If anything, they give me a thumbs up because it seems like a lot of people fw with the Miata.
I can’t wait for mine to show up in a few weeks. As far as affordability it’s in no way a cheap vehicle. You can’t grab a premium under 40k. (If you can even find one) In the Uk the GR86 sold out in 90 mins. Toyota didn’t make enough to handle demand and I doubt for 2024 it’s going to be any different. We’ll see. Great vid! Cheers 🍻
If you have truly never driven a fwd vehicle to the limit, a base one or slightly modded, I think it would be a good experience for you. I've only had one rwd, though it was much older, an old Nissan pickup. I do like it more, don't get me wrong, but having pushed one side to the limit at a base level is an eye opener I believe. You don't know unless you try right? Anyways, that's to say, I could push my current base Civic, a commuter car, as hard as I want, and while the enthusiasm is there from Honda... Driving a new GR86 was an amazing experience. I wish it were a manual, but being able to take it around where I usually push my car, they did an amazing job. It's not just because it's rwd, but the dedication that actually went into this base car. I only thought to comment on this because some fully fledged racers claim it's harder to pull 100% from a fwd than the other two options, and I agree with that. At the end of the day, the fwd may still be slower than the other two at full wring out, but I do believe it deserves it's place, any decent car can teach the driver on the low end.
You and Fenton have been instrumental in demonstrating to me the appeal of the gen2 Toyobaru twins. In my country the GR86 is just about affordable enough to be an attainable dream car. I'm set on buying my own, just need to save enough for a downpayment that won't leave me with a huge monthly car payment. The GR86 is a great "midlife crisis" car, especially if you have other vehicles to do the more mundane point-to-point commuting and hauling.
Great video, I didn't buy GR86 because of markups, picked up BRZ instead at invoice. I did my first track day this and doing few more, great car to enjoy and learn without risking life. I own a kia stinger as well, so practicality wasn't any concern to me. I watched Jason Cammisa say it would be better to learn to steer with throttle than Miata, I made purchase based on that.
Rwd is the way to go so I say the frs or gr86 are great platforms as an all around daily. It’s best to go for either one due to the fact that old used cars such as an s chassis and 350z etc prices are so inflated plus “drift tax” you might as well skip those older cars for now.
I think I disagree with your statement: "it's not an if, but it's a when your GR86 will break if you track it". Even though I am not a car expert, just somebody who collects information and is usually fairly good at coming with logical conclusions. My understanding after everything was, that the statement was only true if you completely ignored the issue like as if it didn't exist and didn't take extra caution with it. But my understanding is, that if you do indeed, take care of the issue, which means replacing your oil regularly, especially before every track session (or almost every, which you should ideally do anyway with ANY car you track...), etc, using a thick oil and once in a while droping the oil pan to clean it - it's only logical that with time you will basically clean the excess sillicon before it manages to cause any oil starvation or other related issues. Then you will be left without this issue and only with the usual risks which all cars do face when tracked. Everybody ought to understand that tracking a car is heavy on the car, there are no exceptions to this. Also apart from the RTV issue, this car most likely has a much lower likelihood of facing engine failures compared to most of the sports cars today (like Toyota Supra or BMW's, etc.). Why? Because it does not come with a turbo. A non-turbo engine tends to generally be much more reliable when tracked than a turbo-engine. That's what most people don't even realize because of all the marketing around. The reality is turbos help you with fuel efficiency and give you power at smaller engine, but they do stress everything more. That's one of the main reasons why I ordered the GR86 - as there were no alternatives and I also compared the realiability of the GT86 compared to other similar alternatives of the last 10 years which were similar in power but had turbo - all of them had worse reliability in practice. But yeah, I ordered this car new, I didn't wanna buy it used or go for the GT86, because I saw that some people don't take care of it. Some people uploaded videos of them doing donuts where their engine had not been broken in yet... Then if you buy from these people, you get a way worse situation than if you had bought it new and taken care of it well. With that said, generally every car you track will break at some point, so in a way that statement with when vs if is true, however it's as true for every car as it is for the GR86, it's just that normal people will maybe not track it at all, most people will track it only once every few years or so, some maybe a couple of times a year. It's mostly those who participate in competitions and are regularly tracking their GR86 as it it was a race car, even though it isn't, while not maintaining it as if it was a race car (they require a lot... Think of F1 for instance, nowadays there's a requirement for only using 3 engines/season so the teams had to adapt eveything to that, but before that, the engines were a lot less reliable, usually for a single race only and they didn't even always make that race without failing...)
i agree with almost everything you said about the GR 86!i got mine two months ago and love it!I had to pay a premium of 2500.00 to got the car but I think it's worth the adjustment!This is in Massachusett's.i have a 2008 Z06 that i bought new and this car is more fun to drive.What mods do you have planned for the GR 86 going forward?
In Europe it will actually make a lot of sense to baby my GR86 as it's no longer available and will not be. It was incredibly hard to get one over here. I'm not even going to mention the insane markups.
Hate the horrendous I15 traffic and construction. Just picked my 2023 up last week and I'm loving it so far! Love driving it in the Southwest part of town. So little traffic and lots of bends and curves I can rip through.
Gonna be buying one soon but one thing that’s not letting me take that last step is I’m unsure how the cars drive and how safe they are in a heavy Canadian winter
I've had my 2016 FRS since new, I'm right at 42k miles, a dozen track days in the car (another this week), but I think it's almost time for something new. The GR86 looks like a steal of a deal. Sidenote, how is the cx50?!
I still don't know how these cars are "affordable". Probably 95% or more people have to go in to debt to buy one. Especially the young person. If the young person say makes $20 per hour full time that's like what 2800 after taxes per month? This car would take what 650 for car payment for 5 years and insurance maybe 150-200 or more depending on age for full coverage? Then you gotta factor in gas and the inevitable mods. On top of rent and food and bills? Unless you live at home with no rent payment I don't see it in this market. Aside of the fact that these cars are marked up and not readily available to purchase. Am I missing something or? Genuinely asking cause I hear and see these comments a lot about this car and it's not adding up if you're financially responsible.
Is it worth it to get it in Automatic for my daily drive ? I lived in a busy city, manual will cramp my leg 😢 Currently driving a MK8R looking for second car
I owned a Neptune blue 22 GR86 and though I loved the car it had some issues. Local Toyota wanted $12k over msrp plus mandatory accessories from the dealership. I bought mine at a different dealer that was over 500 miles away and purchased it $500 under sticker with no mandatory accessories. Although I did eventually get a reasonable price I believe Toyota corporate should allow me to order any Toyota I want to my local dealer with 0 markup. Both of my car fobs died on me with in 45 days of buying the car and left me stranded in the mountains about 2 hours away from a dealership. Once I took the car in the first thing I was told was “it’s those crappy Subaru key fobs fault”. That is not what you want to hear. Now when the whole RTV thing came about I had my local dealership drop my oil pan and they were going to charge me $400 until they saw how much RTV was in my oil pickup tube and then covered the cost. I eventually sold my GR86 and I look forward to the next gen which if rumors are true will have the 1.6 turbo 3 from the grYaris/grCorolla. My take away from owning the GR86 is that it’s a beautiful rwd lightweight sports car with amazing handling. However my dealership experience was terrible and spoiled the ownership experience.
@@CruiseControl1 I really don't care much about the power, I care about power delivery. Jason Cammisa talked about both engines in his podcast, he would pick that over one in GR Corolla as well. More power would add weight to the car, plus turbo lag, high torque in a manual RWD car doesn't go as good as in AWD manual car.
Clear this please - you say to not hand wash/baby a daily car for long term and just simply enjoy auto car wash? Do you still just hand wash this GR86?
No front drive car with a turbo will compare in fun factor to this. No turbo sports car will. Not even porsche. Ive driven them all this is a trillion times more fun not even close
You mentioned babying your frs in the past like being aware of where you would park, I currently do own a gr86 and the thing I’m worried about is getting my gr86 keyed or just bumped into while parked although most cases it shouldn’t happen but I feel more concerned for the car than I’ve felt for any other car but this is also my first sports car. What would you do to get over those fears?
Jubbal, please do not encourage more money on this car since it shouldn't be more expensive than it is now. It would ne ridiculous from Toyota and Subaru to increase the price on this car. I would keep my BRZ 23 forever even though I was going to get GR86 but Toyota just did not want to work with me so screw Toyota for that. I don't care if it is dealership or manufacture but if their giving chances to price gouge, their crazy and will leave immediately. I already did subtle changes that makes it half BRZ half GR86.
Haha don't worry my opinion has no influence on the price of these cars. I'm all for keeping the costs low for sure. I'm just saying the value you get for this car is pretty insane, and I would have personally paid more for it, if it had a higher MSRP.
as I've seen from other youtube videos, Toyota void warranty for this car if you use it on track and that RTV issue. For track usage and performance driving, I don't think it's a good car.
My GR86 will arrive next month. Will be my weekend mountain run car. I would like to put on 17in rims with 225 45 17 at the front and 245 40 17 at the back with 17 8.5J + 44. What are your thoughts?
