Ok so a vehicle technicain/MOT tetser speaking here, the timing chain tensioner on the 1.2MPi (3 cyinder) engine in that series polo is oil feed and tensions by using oil pressure, it also had a ratchet insside to maintain just enough tension on the chain to keep it from jumping teeth, it will not do that. the noise on start up is due to oil and pressure having drained away, hence the need for the ratchet. Its normal, engines with a new tensioner and chain will also make the noise if left sitting for a few days. I have a 19 plate Mazda 2 1.5 sky active with 39,000miles on the clock, it very very well maintained but if left sitting for 2 or more days the chain is noisey untill full oil pressure is built of (about 2-3 seconds) very normal on mordern engines.
I've got a Fabia with the same engine, it's on 158K and I still don't have that noise (been listening out for it since I bought it new). I've always allowed the idle to settle on startup, even when warm, and the last mechanic who inspected the engine put it down to that and that I always use the correct oil for standard service intervals, it's much better for the tensioner than the longlife stuff that gets too thin as it ages. Have heard other engines making the rattle though, always scary when some people still think you have to give it some throttle on startup and it revs away!
South Africa - I have been a VW owner for many year and also owned several models. As a hobby I would buy and restore Mk1 Golf's. The Polo in the Video is currently available in SA as a cheaper option and is labeled as the Polo Vivo. Their engine sizes vary from 1.4 and 1.6 4 cylinder with normal aspirated engines, also included is the top of the Vivo range with a 3 cylinder 999cc turbo charged engine. The 1.4 and 1.6 are reliable engines en economical, spare parts and service parts are cheap. There are lots of Polo's on SA roads, the Polo Vivo is also the best selling car in SA for many years. I recently purchased a second hand 2013 VW Polo 1.4 with 153000km's on the clock. The engine is in good shape, the body as well, there is some noise from the front suspension and the air conditioner pump is also making it's presence know with a humming sound when switched it. Will have those problems fixed in a week or two and then take it for COR. Out of the many VW's I owned, the one that stood out from the crowd was my Mk1 Gti, 1800cc 4 cylinder pocket rocket. Keep up the good work.
Really enjoy your channel and your honesty. Wouldn't touch a VW or any of the nasty French makes either. Japanese or South Korean is all I would consider, currently running a Honda Jazz.
problem with car makers is they push the limits with service intervals, these days some cars can do fifty thousand miles and only have one oil change, this IMO is what wrecks the timing chains, do a oil service every 8 to 10 thousand miles or every year and these timing chains will go on to a very high mileage, sadly these service intervals suits the fleet buyers
Been a long time since VW's were bullet proof unfortunately. My sister had a bread van Polo as her first car and that was pretty bullet proof but that's a long time ago!
My wife has an Audi A1 1.2 TFSI that had that same problem, only it could happen at any time on start up, warm or cold. We had the timing chain changed at great expense at 80K (£675 at independent VW specialist as main dealer wanted around £1200). The car is now on 95K and again it rattles sometimes on start up. We are replacing the oil at 9K intervals as suggested by the VW specialist but it hasn't prevented the problem reoccurring. They had a 1.2 TSI polo in at the same time as ours where the chain had actually slipped, destroying the engine and that had only done 40K. When you scour the internet you here of a lot of timing chain engines with this issue - a case of buyer beware - I wont be buying a car with a timing chain again.
The thing is, 9k oil change intervals is still quite a long time, especially if those are 9k around town miles or over multiple years. I always aim for 5k intervals as I've read various oil test results where they found that oil after about 6k was overdue a change.
I had an Evo X that missed an oil change one year, I resumed normal servicing (and those cars need them often) it didn't skip a beat - they're not all bad, it's all about the manufacturer or application. Unfortunately it's the more common cars that put us off
@@reeced5521 i would agree that if it was over multiple years around town but the car is regularly used in on the motorway and 9k equates to about 1 year. I think its poor design or substandard component supply at fault
German engines used to be bullet proof but then the accounts got to work and plastic components found their way into the engines as well as the outside. BMW and Audi engines also need extreme caution when buying for the same reason.
I agree - ,my point was that the original Beetle was billed in the States as how the man who drove the snowplough got to work. When looked after even though they were older tech they were good hence the production life. Early Golfs did rot like anything else at the time but as they progressed they were better than the competition same with BMW. Then yes flash forward they were subject to rationalisation ( VAG + SEAT + Skoda etc ) so parts were spread and if something was substandard in one make it was the same across them all. They lived on an earned reputation that they failed to maintain ( as in many ways did Mercedes ) - cars are cars and they all need maintaining or they break ( can't get that message thru to the Mrs sadly ) but some are better than others. Channels like James' really help steer buyers in the right direction. Just watched High Peak ( as ref'd to by James ) and he is driving an A3 Allroad - nice car but Jesus the number of potential faults and repair costs ........arrrggghhhhhh
Had 2 golfs and one audi. All very well built and put together- but all cars nunerouscnunerous problems. Toyoyta i hqdcbefore no problem just bulb, andcgoodcbuildcquality. Butvmy experience of vag iscutterly utterkupy problematic. Thexadvert “ if only everything was as reliable as a vw was obviously wrong and utterly misleadibg.
James, do not forget that there are 2 versions of this engine - 6 valve 60BHP and 12 valve 70BHP. As the grey car is an S model I assume it will be the 6 valve.
CGPB, CGPA, CGPC are 12V and best. All issue was sorted. This engine easly run up to 500000km if you change oil and filter every 5-6 kkm. If you listen dealer an his 30kkm you will kill your engine in 3 years. My not consume oil at all.
I wouldn't touch a Polo with a barge pole anyway. Overpriced and over rated. I'll stick with my far Eastern cars thank you very much. (Honda, Toyota, Kia, Hyundai, Suzuki, Mitsubishi, Mazda, Nissan). Love this channel, it's just so watchable and I've learnt a fair bit about the motor trade from it.
Got a 2011 polo with this engine as a 1st car and it’s been making this noise for the year I’ve had it (only when cold). Just realised recently it must be the timing chain, but was unsure whether it needed doing.
I have bought a lot of polos James, I now have a Gti and my wife has a 1.4. I have one rule, never buy a 1.2 three cylinder. Never have done and never will do mate.
I brought a 1998 1.4 L 6N 3 door polo, electric windows,mirrors. 70K on the clock for £300 (private seller well serviced) 5 years ago no rust body work mint for age. Starts on the button ,reliable solid drive, I did have the cam belt changed last year as a matter of service just to be sure, only usual wear and tear things like brake pads and tyres needed in that time. Passes MOT with no advisaries every year so far. dosent burn oil I have kept it because a couple of mechanics tell me engine is solid for that series easy to service as not full of electronics. Best value second hand car i have brought in my 40 years of car ownership along with a peugeot 406 2L deisel a few years back. ( have had new cars and newer cars). will look after it as i am not a high anual milage driver these days makes for a decent rounabout and occasional lomger trips for week ends etc. Guess i chose well when i was seeking a cheap car .
My son bought a Polo 1.4 W Reg in 2014 for £375 to drive around Europe. After that couple of 000 miles, he gave it to his mum to use as a runaround for a few months, until scrap. But 2022, it is still going with 130+k on clock and the 4 cylinder engine is great.
Great bit of advice there James buyer beware! The VAG reliability thing goes way back probably to the 70/80's when they were better engineered than rivals but that has long since changed and think many other car makers offer better products at better value for money. Still a lot of people still willing to pay a premium for VW!
The VW group out sourced the manufacture of the timing chains on many engines, but the chains supplied were poor quality. I changed mine on a 2014 Fabia (at 100km) and the old chain had stretched over 1 cm! Beware.
James, in your video on the Polo chain at 4.00 mins and 7.30 mins in lots of views of your red MGB. It looks spectacular to me because a reflection of the unit appears to give it a central small hump that runs the length of the bonnet right down to the grill. In my opinion it makes the car look awesome. I think of I owned a "B" I'd have a bonnet crafted with that in it. Have a look, just a thought. Love the channel.
I've got one to do on Monday, nice thing to look forward to 🙄 It's jumped a tooth or two, it barely idles, code stored for cam/crank correlation. Full service history and only 50k miles or so. 63 plate I think. Shocking
Some push rod engines were really clever designs, like the Peugeot 404 which had short pushrods making the engine very sweet. The Renault 16 engine was another "sewing machine" engine with pushrods. Blimey, that takes me back 😳😁
The 1.2 petrol definitely is the worst VW engine ever made, most will say there pd diesel engines are the best and most bulletproof, or the original beetle engine last good VWs were the mk5 generation.
Interesting you’re standing next to an R56 Mini which is renowned for timing chain issues. I had one and the cold start rattle began, had to change the chain at 70k miles even with a good history. Lack of oil changes and oil starvation in many cars ruins chains. Great advice and love that you point out chains aren’t always for life
In the old days the chain on the Alfa Romeo Nord engine was good for 200,000 miles or more, but they were properly designed and very robust. These days chains are made deliberately weedy and have plastic chain guides that fall to bits due to heat ( in the old days they were alloy). I used to be a fan of chains, but not in modern cars in which engine parts are seemingly lifed to about 100,000 miles it seems, regardless of make.
Top Tips and shows why your business is doing so well because your open, honest, and why your continuing to be recommended! Keep up the fantastic work James.
Most common in the 1.2 3cyl's is stretched chain/worn tensioner or misfires due to burned exhaust valves. They can also make tappet noise when standing for a while as they are hydraulic
@@timalloybhoy That's interesting as we recently scrapped our rusty mk1 1.2 3 cyl fabia with 160,000 on it with no engine problems. We have two other MK2 fabia 2 1.2s both with 80,000 miles on, and one of them "might" have a problem as it takes two turns on the key to start. When we got it I found the plugs were not tight, so thought that was the problem, but not so. It seems to run ok, but the engine is deffo not as "nice" as the other one. They are my son and daughters cars and they love them. Maybe I need to check compressions 😕
Interestingly, here in NZ, the reputation of the VAG cars is "horrendously unreliable mechanically", thus dramatic depreciation. While everyone who wants reliable, buys Japanese or Korean. The VW range is considered by nobody to be bulletproof. Good heads up about the cam chain 🙂
Same here in Australia. It's telling when the majority of the taxis on the road in Melbourne are Toyota Camrys or Klugers/Highlanders, with some Lexus's doing duty as Silver Service cabs. VW's reputation as a reliable brand here never really got over the issues with the early DSG's & various other quality issues.
Yeah they were known here as mechanically reliable for the longest time, the reputation hasn't caught up with the reality yet. BMWs especially can be unnecessary to service when changing bulbs etc
Me too. I feel your pain: EGR valve failures, leaky waterpumps, DPF problems, sticking calipers, failed drop links. Unremitting unreliability. Even the Dieselgate compensation doesn't cover it.
All 1.8 and 2.0 ea288 TSi engines and the early chain driven 1.4 TSI engines had very very poor chain tensioner, different to the MPI and in that it would loose oil pressure at anytime when running, causing the teeth in the ratchet to break up, again the oil 3 pot MPI never did that and were bullet proof. if i remember right the tensioner on the ea288 when through 10 different modifications before they got it right in the current gen 3 version of the engine.
Usually excessive wear on cam chains is through lack of oil changes. Even with a "fully stamped service book" it does not mean it's actually been serviced that many times. Heard too many horror stories of fully serviced cars, engines eating themselves only to find out that the service stamp from a couple months back was clearly a fake judging by the oil and oil filter condition. Lots of short journeys won't help either as the oil will get contaminated with moisture so would need changes more frequently unless driven longer distance now and again.
@@williamegler8771 That's because these days there are many more people in the world that are more bothered about what other people think i.e. showing off a so-called "premium" brand to friends, neighbours etc.
Ha ha! I had a Audi A4 2.0 TDI 2006 years ago, bought it from Audi Newcastle with something like 15k miles on it by 25k miles I had taken the loss and traded it in for a Lexus because of a list of nightmare problems I had with the car. I had turbo's blow, sensor problems also a knock that Audi could not find! They could hear it but not diagnose it!! .... Every time I took the car in for repair they would tell me how good Audi cars are 🤠🤣🤣🤣
I'm in the trade and a smaller car dealer and can agree with 1.2 VW Polo's which is why I don't touch them however the 1.4 Petrol's are superb and use a cambelt instead of chain so highly recommend the 1.4's!
South Africa here again. Currently driving a 2011 Polo sedan. 258000 kms on the clock. Engine has not been touched yet. 2 water pumps and an engine mount replacement is about the most major repairs done. Daily runner and very fuel efficient. Also own a vivo 1.6 tiptronic. A little heavier on the fuel . Keep them regularly serviced and they do carry on forever.
Spot on. We’ve imported some of these with 30k and rattle when running, not just on start up. If it’s been sitting for a week or so and you got a rattle I’d say nothing to be concerned about. Shouldn’t do it every day though
Apparently a rattle on startup is a fairly common thing with chain driven engines. A slight rattle for 1-2 seconds is usually considered fine. If it lasts longer than that, or happens during normal running then you have an issue that needs looking at immediately.
@@reeced5521 it is, as James said in the video it’s the tensioner draining so needs to be pressurised again. If it’s doing it every day there is an issue. If it’s doing it after being stood a week or so, it’s quite normal for it to rattle for a few seconds on start up.
Interesting, though you could factor in a cost of £633.03 (according to Google) to the price you are prepared to pay for a Polo without a replacement chain, in the same way many people would factor in the cost (£318 to £499) of a replacement cambelt (for the cars that use them). The difference in price between a replacement chain versus a replacement belt is not that huge. Thoughts? Incidentally my local repairs guy has indicated roughly £500 for a replacement chain for my Mk6 Golf.
These 3 pot units are crap !! But if you change the oil every 6K with correct 507 longlife oil !! They will survive, Had one with 185K on it Mechanic lads Mums car Oil changed every 6K and it was fine !! Dealer 20K between oil changes is Total Joke DON'T Follow Dealer Info !!
I have a Corsa d, I know about the timing chain, most of the time is not oil change change ect, I change my oil every 7k miles, I know it's over the top but was told by a ex Vauxhall mechanic to do it, has the polo got the same chain as the Skoda fabia
I have a 2010 VW polo with a 1.2 petrol 3 cylinder. I think my car makes that noise every morning but I don't slam the gas as soon I start the engine, I always wait around 20 seconds before moving and I let it warm up for a few minutes of normal driving before I step on the gas. there is also a ticking noise at low rpm when the engine is cold that goes away once the engine is warmed up. apparently the ticking is normal and is something to do with a high pressure fuel system from what I could find online? my car has 211,000km on it now and I've had a good experience owning a polo so far. insurance is cheap and the only issues I've had were a broken abs pump and a leaking drum brake piston. I get my oil changed every 10,000km and I am on track to doing 20,000km in my first year of owning the car. I may be wrong but it seems that these cars break if people neglect to do regular service intervals (as would almost any car). given the age of my car and the milage, I would expect things to start breaking but I'm aware of that. it doesn't mean the cars are unreliable when things break at this milage. but if this happens regularly to cars with regular service and low miles then it is shocking.
VW and BMW have lived on a reputation built up in the 70's and 80's when on the whole they were better than any of the competition - they have been overtaken now and are no better than the pack in my view. Its all a myth.
James check the wiring on the fusion, the wires in the door hinge have a habit of breaking, I'd be surprised if both locks had failed at the same time!
I have a 2010 Polo 1.2 which I bought on 55k miles for £80 with engine management light on. The owner had the codes pulled and was told it was pretty much scrap value because of timing chain failure. He let me have it for less than scrap because I said I was putting it back on the road. It had a new chain and tensioner for about £600 and it's now on 90k miles 2 years later and I've had no more problems with it. It's been a cracking car to own and drive. But do I sell it now, whilst it's faultless!? 😀 ETA: I do oil and filter every 6 months/6k miles. I had read that the ridiculous longlife service intervals were a big part of the problem. Long service intervals are a good sell when new, and the cars are largely out of warranty when it becomes an issue.
Vw was once solid and reliable, not anymore, a lot of more modern cars suffer poor mechanicals nowadays, cut corners and penny pinch while charging as much as possible to the customer from new.
the 1.4 TSI petrols in Golf etc. were/are absolutely notorious for eating timing chains, some failed as early as below 10k miles (I seem to remember reading an account of one needing to be replaced at 3 or 4k km(!)). My parents have one that started rattling around 90k km and the garage said they caught it in the nick of time. The car seems to burn money even though it's neither that old nor has that many km - I think it's around 140k now and has been through a timing chain job, new brakes all round (EXPENSIVE), new front and (not sure about that) rear wheel bearings and a spontaneous massive coolant leak, a radiator hose just popped off on the motorway. The battery's also been entirely flat a few times but that might have been the battery itself - it was seven years old if I remember correctly and the car hasn't acted up since we replaced the battery in spring. If they ever replace it, the next one will be a Japanese car though! They've had Mitsubishis from 1986 and always loved them! One lasted from 1988 to 2012 and was then sold for 1500 Euros.
All cars have issues these days. Emissions and extended service intervals seem to have ruined reliability. As a rule of thumb regular oil changes are your best chance of reducing issues, especially on turbo’ed cars. Timing chains equal thousands in repairs, belts much less, preventative maintenance these days is all you can hope will minimise risk. New or old…
With a fleet of small older cars for kids I make the following observations Polo 1.4 2008-2014 seems pretty solid engine, (timing belt though)got one with 130k on it, runs sweet enough and burns no oil. Corsa think oil changes are crucial got a 58 plate that’s never gone more than 7k on oil changes and chain is tight at 69k and sounds sweet (daughters friends same miles and age sounds dreadful) Yaris mk1 indestructible! 07 Fiesta 1.4 gave me a fright with oil consumption but think it was breather hose collapsing/PCV…. When the weather got very hot and a good run it just used to vanish but seems sorted (although used a drop)
2 observations: Chevy Sparks are almost universally panned as penalty boxes in the U.S. tho I would guess one with a manual transmission would be tolerable. I own a 2013 Fusion/Mondeo and Ford parts nowadays are extremely expensive.
@@ChopsGarage Hope you get the deal finalized on the Spark, and that it remains without issues. I've had a few of these coming in on a tow due to a crank-no-start condition. Seems to be an issue with these where they're supposed to be sending constant power towards a certain fuse in the box from the ECU, but it stops sending that power which results in a crank no start as well as the inability to slap an OBD reader on it. I've never managed to find the real reason for the failure, they magically start working again if you poke/tinker with the ECU and the connectors long enough. ( And then it never happens again! )
German reliability is a total myth and has been for 15 years or more. VW Group are making some of the most unreliable cars on the roads. About the only engine they make which is good and reliable is the 2.0 TDI CR engines. All the smaller diesels are rubbish. The petrols are rubbish, either timing chain issues or they burn excessive amounts of oil. I will never every buy VW Group again.
Cambelts every 5 years on a Golf but every 3 years on a Polo and at £800 with water pump it ain''t cheap. Personally I wouldn't trust any car with a 3 cylinder motorbike engine under the bonnet 🤣 High Peak Auto's rock 👍
chops, there was only issues with the earlier 1.2 engines of earlier polos. they have now replaced these engines and now fit belts to them. as the chains were poor quality and cracked. these were the 3 cylinder engines.. but the 1.2 tsi engines are now 4 cylinder, and much stronger with a turbo. anyone wanting a polo, go for the tsi. with over 50mpg. you have speed with economy. i love mine and intend to keep it for years to come. just service them and look after them. they are good cars. 😊
I bought an Astra J 1.6 CDTI at 69,000 miles and within a 12 mths the chain was rattling like a good un all the time. I was disappointed because I thought a timing chain ought to last longer than a belt..but not in this case. Had to get it done at a local garage - for £1250. Won't be buying another Vauxhall..
The 3 cylinder 1.2 engines as far back as the 9N and 9N3 Polo from about 2002 -2009 are a bag of shite always cracking cylinder heads. An engine rebuilder beside me had literally dozens of them in. One poor girl had hers leaking oil onto the manifold and it went on fire, luckily she got out and the fire extinguished but she got rid quickly.
Older cars had shorter duplex chains, so no trouble, but valve train lightness equates to better performance and economy, but unfortunately they don't last 5 mins.
Very interesting, it just goes to show that starting and revving immediately is never good. Every car I have I start and let the engine stabilize for a few seconds before doing anything.
I have a 2016 polo 1.8 gti tsi bmotion, daja 192hp, i can say that its had its issues with a waterpump leak, heater support pump failer & the valve cover seal . The first part to go was the heater blower fan resistor. Generally vw motors have always had vacum leaks but mine has been sweet in this area of the car . It cost me a reasonable amout of money to do the waterpump , heat sup pump & the vcover seal but i decided that i could do it myself & cut out the dealer labour costs which helped me out so i didnt mind paying out for oem parts from the dealers which were updated revised genuine parts . While the valve cover was coming off i decided that i would replace the hpfp gasket & O-ring + the cam bridge seals & cam cover seals which to me made sense to replace them for longer life , Luckily i havnt heard any cam chain slap but the car is at 89,000 now so im thinking about just doing a cam chain kit replacement in the near future for peace of mind + if i decide to sell her new owner has no troubles with that side of things. All in all apart from general wear & tear , services ,repairs & maintenance she is a good car , i do all the work myself i have the tools to do it aswell , With regular oil/ filter services the engine stays sound . Im gona look forward to doing the chain replacement when i get round to it .
Have had one of these from new, 12 years ago was assured by the VW dealer that the timing chains were good for 100k! Not a chance, had to have mine replaced at 55k, because as you say it stretched, warning lights came up on the dash and it wouldn't run properly!
When I was delivery driver we used to alpt of pre 10 deliveries to V W .These normally small engines on Warrenity claims. The service said the engine alone was £5000 . The would have to matched to VIN meaning you could not recycled engines fron a Scrap Yard .I would deliver at least 1 a month.
