Don't Buy an Island Packet? 

Good words. Im a sailor for 50 years with many boats under my belt. learned to sail in dinghy's and raced them as well .I am also a sailing instructor. It was long journey to my last boat a Bristol 45.5 . But this is the right boat for what I am doing at this point in my life.

My first sailboat is an IP 420. Got a couple of lessons, got familiar with the boat. Been solo on it, coastal and ICW up to Maryland and back to Florida. Great first boat, very forgiving, very stable. It’s been a wonderful experience!!!

This is EXACTLY what I’m doing Really getting my offshore experience on an Alberg 30. And slowly savings towards my new IP. It’ll be my 4th boat.

Maritime Lawyer for large commercial shipping concerns here - For fun, I sailed an Alberg 30 for almost 10 years owned by a friend on the Chesapeake Bay. I dreamed of owning Pacific Seacrafts and large Island Packets too. My friend who owned the Alberg 30 always warned me not to go bigger - I never bought a boat, but stayed as a first mate on the old Alberg 30. Funny that I agree with this professional tugboat operator. You tube is the easiest way to go to sea now. Just bareboat rent. Now back to the tugboat channel.

I think it’s wiser to learn to sail for the love of sailing BEFORE learning to sail as a retirement, long term cruising goal.

You did the right thing in giving advice. Most people give advice of what they themselves would do.. You gave him advice of what he should do after getting to know him.

My first boat was a Catalina 36 and we loved it and learned a great deal before we gradually bought a 48 foot sailboat and started sailing off shore for lengthy trips.

The mission …. The means must fit that mission. I have worked with loads of corporate planes. Advising buyers what to buy. It’s wise to make a mission profile first then get the tools and prices to do that. Add the luxury and voilà there you have it. Thanks for sharing Tim. Wise to become the wiser. 😊 Best regards from the Netherlands.

Very good advise Tim. The argument holds true for a novice boater on purchasing any large / more expensive boat to learn on. While we whould never be reckless, learning the basics is ultimately easier, faster, less scary and a whole lot more fun on a smaller boat. Scraping the dock on a $30k boat is going to be less painful that a $300k. One may run the risk of not learning to sail effectively if they are afraid of the boat or costs. Congratulations Mark on your Cat 36. Lots of time to move up to the IPY in a couple of years 😂

Good advice. I sailed 35,000 NM in a camper-nicholson 32, solo. Only Lloyd of London would insure my boat, so I never had any. It was light and easy for one person to sail. I am reminded of the pardys, who had a 29 footer and crossed many an ocean. And Hal Roth who sailed with his wife on a 35 foot Spencer. Both people wrote books on sailing and I would recommend them to anyone. My biggest disappointment when I went cruising was the oversize boats most people bought, and who rarely used their sails.

Look into nonsuch cat boats. Great point Tim. As a longtime sailor when you go over 34’ the boats have huge energy. Can be very dangerous. Good video.

Wise advice and it gives you a good feeling when you can help someone else, I started with small dingy sail and then Balboa 20 and then Pearson 30,retired now and my next boat will be 40ft or larger, it's a progression of a big learning curve over many years, I recruited all family members that were interested in sailing,,not all of them like sailboats so I tested them on weekends, a few of them loved it and others not so much...Have a great Life,,Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

I bought a Coronad30 24 years ago, cut the floor open and got 3 full wide crossbeams installed with 7 layers of fibre glass . Stiffend the boat up so much i have sailed it around Vancouver Island a few times and improved the handling in the open water amazingly !

Good advice! I started sailing with an older diesel Catalina 27. I learned sailing techniques, docking, boat maintenance and repairs on weekends.

I started out in a small dinghy, moving up to a Seafarer 26. I always thought I wanted a long keeled beast, and that will be the case if I cross oceans, but the seafarer 26 is a moderate displacement boat with a fin keel. She's going to be faster and easier to maneuver then a long keeled lead sled. Who knows what I'll eventually end up with, but your video made some great points. Thanks for sharing.

Good advice. Almost bought my "last" boat a few years ago - an ocean cruiser. I was also still working and decided to keep my Pearson 30. I would have used a bigger boat less and it would have cost a great deal more money. Glad I made the decision I did instead of paying for a dream.

You did your friend a great service. Excellent video. Our first (and current) cruising boat is a C42. Insurance was a shock, even though I had decades of small (22’ and less) day sailing boats and like your friend says-it’s a lot of practice and art. 2 plus years later, I still feel like a private pilot (safe but not really good at my craft) but am much safer/proficient now as we practice for the commercial and airline transport rating capability.

Tartan 34. J/34, J/35c. I am a fan of getting where I’m going. Also, while the extra tankage is great, fuel and potable water can go stale. I prefer smaller tankage for these reasons. Your IP has a lot of sail, which is expensive to maintain/replace. A boat that is easily driven by a main and a small overlapping Gen is a good thing.

Good advice. Boating is a lot like skiing. Ideally you learn at a very young age and it becomes a lifestyle. Almost second nature. As you get older money and therefore bigger boats are easier to come by. However the learning curve for the most part still takes time. The physical part, especially on a sail boat, is a little more challenging as each year goes by. On a beautiful Sunday afternoon while working on my 36 foot boat my brother sails by on his "barn find" sunfish with a big grin on his face. You tell me who has it figured out? 😀

I thought this was click bait -- well it is a bit. You make some great points Tim. Recall I spoke to you after you had bought yours on the phone, I was in line to build / eventually bought one out of Charleston. I don't regret getting my IP at all. Insurance, ownership (cash vs loan) and learning are all valid points. But my background, ownership and insurance all worked out for me. Just want to share that it is very possible and attainable. And fair to say I love most all boats -- will sail just about on anything. But happy I'm not changing out boats (again) in a few years. I didn't want a boat upgrade path. Learning a boat's systems is time consuming. ⚓💙

I started with a Bayliner 24, then a Catalina 30, then an Islander 38 before buying an Island Packet 42 which I have had for 20 years now. I love my Island Packet! It is a better boat today than it was 20 years ago when I first acquired it. I’ve kept it up, improved it. It has quality bones. All that the video tells you is the obvious about buying where you are on the experience curve and what you can afford.

Good advice for sure. Boats are not like cars, a five year old boat is not almost finished. The manufacture would like you to buy new but there is really very little reason to do so. The insurance companies are trying to push for newer boats and many will not insure anything over 25 years old without a survey. For the person retiring or who is looking at the boat like a second home and using the same mindset, buying the boat that ticks all the boxes seems to make sense. The reality is quite different. A first time buyer does not know if they really even want a boat. There are a lot of boats under 50K (even under 10K really) that are A) livable, and B) sailable, at least for coastal sailing which is really about as far as a new sailor should go..... or power boater for that matter. As one surveyor suggested, Don't fix anything except safety items until you have sailed the boat for at least 3 months. This will help you understand if you want to fix it, modify it or really it is just fine as is. We started out with a 16ft centre console boat which we would stuff with camping gear and go to one of the local islands for camping. We loved it a lot, there was always a place to camp and it was not crowded. However, it was a lot of work. Put the boat in the water, load the boat, go to Island, unload the boat move the gear above high tide, think about anchoring, setup and of course the reverse. We moved from there to a 23 foot cabin cruiser.... Wow. no setup we could load the boat at home for a week before we left, just put the boat in the water and camp at anchor. I had modified this boat because we have two full size boys so I added a quarter berth. It was still a bit small, not place for a morning coffee with a "I want to sleep in" body using the table as a bunk. Cooking was mostly out side, the table was really made for 2 not 4, etc But we enjoyed it and were happy with "sail boat speeds" (we could afford the fuel). So we have now moved up to a 29 foot boat that has the room for all of us to sleep in a permanently set up bed. The ride is so much better with a keel and some extra weight (from 2-ish tons to 4.5+) and a kitchen. Basically, we have a water front cottage with a changing front and back yard and with moorage we can afford and a up front cost of under 10k. It is big enough for our current use into the foreseeable future. If we were to go live aboard.... maybe when my Yf retires, we have a much better idea of what we would need... it could be under 40 feet still and even if we gave this boat away, if we were willing to have another older boat we would not break the bank even with my pension and even not having to sell the house. Nobody "needs" a 100K plus boat.... but I am sure glad other people are buying them so there will always be old boats around I can buy ;)

Great video, be bought a daysailor and a coastal boat, which will teach him how to sail and how to live on a boat. Once he wants to sail offshore hundreds of miles, he will think about: #1 Keel Bolts #2 Spade rudder #3 Displacement.... so eventually he might end up in a bigger and heavier boat for ocean runs to the Caribbean Sea.

Fascinating first time sailboat owner perspective. We looked at islands packet & Catalina 36 we really liked the newer 2006 and above but the cost &speed of the island packet. & the Catalina tend to have a lot of leaks through the decks. We ended up with a 34 westerly Seahawk she is slow but comfortable love the aft cabin and no core in the fiberglass. Good video!

It's all about the water. You work on a tug and relax on a sail boat. I live on a man made lake and have a 14 foot electric boat and go on 3 cruises each year now we are retired. I spent 38 years as a welder in Sheet Metal Workers Union and can kick back now and enjoy life more relaxed. I hope to see more of your SV Paquita channel when you retire!! Thanks Tim.

A yacht broker once gave me some (bad) advice. "Buy the biggest boat you can afford ". Probably because of "2 foot-itis". But just because you can afford a bigger boat doesn't mean you should buy it. I learned the hard way. Sold the big, gorgeous boat and bought a small gorgeous boat😊. I would advise against buying "Benehuntalinas". Love your channels. Love from Rhode Island.

I've been shopping around for my retirement boat for a few years now. Books, reviews, boat shows, sail-alongs, charters - the works. The best advice I've received so far was the wise old man who said "It doesn't matter how much research you do, whichever boat you buy first will NOT BE THE RIGHT BOAT!" So the new plan is to find a boat that I think I'm in love with, and refit it as much as needed to be safe and comfortable. But I'm not putting a lot of money into fancy systems until I find out what I really like and dislike, so that I know what my "forever" boat is going to be. Going small and simple while you're learning what you really like is definitely the way to go. Good luck to all!

I just need a faster boat. IP’s are terrific but as a racer I just can’t have someone zooming by. But yes good idea to not over spend on a boat and have $$$ issues going forward. I’ve never heard anyone say “you know my boat maintenance is much less than I thought it would be”. 😊

Yes, sailing is a crazy amount of things happening at the same time. Takes a time to get used to it. Great advice. I would even recommend an even smaller first boat.

An Island Packet is definitely not for everyone. It is a production boat, just limited production. I would also argue for buying a smaller, better sailing boat to start and then move to a boat that better fits the individuals needs/wants. Of course, if you want quality and a boat that has good value retention you can't do better than a Maine built semi-custom boat like a Hinckley or Morris. Despite that a 90s/early 2000s vintage Morris Ocean Series boat or a similar age Hinckley SW42 or SW51/52 can be as nice or nicer than most brand new boats. Even an older Morris Justine 36 or a Hinckley Bermuda 40 is a top quality boat. Of course those boats will be older since neither builder currently builds sail. Sabre also used to build decent performance boats (they build power now). Note, I may be biased since I live and sail in Maine. If you want a cheaper boat, a late model Sabre is a good built choice that will literally sail rings around an Island Packet and build quality is at least as good as IP.

To respect each others boat choice is paramount. Sometimes ;-) Very well stated statement!

Sailed an IP 420 for 3 days in the Channel Islands. Nice boat. Comfortable motion. Challenging to dock. Looking to buy my first big boat and think a slightly smaller production boat is the smart choice.

Great video, best insight ever!

Better advice has never been given!! Catalina is a fantastic 1st boat… and parts are readily available!! Love my 30!! #CUOTO

This video should save many a marriage/relationship! Great advise . . .

Thanks for that however I am going to buy a Island Packet however it is an older IP 27 that doesn't cost a lot. I am a long time boater but not a sailor with a full keel boat so i think it is a good starter and for a 27 footer it feels big with that 10.5 foot beam and island packets use of space.

Just can't abide the thought of financing or insuring a sailboat. I spent $30K on an old 32ft boat in good shape. She cruises the Bahamas just fine. If I lost it, it would suck, but it wouldn't cause problems for me financially.

As much as it would be nice to have a bigger boat I am glad my wife and I started on a smaller boat. We learned a lot of what not to do on something cheaper to fix. lol

Remember the 1970's when a very large boat for a couple in the Bahamas was a Tarten 37. Now to many want all the modern inconveniences and a 50 footer. Biggest question is what do you really need on board and can you repair it yourself. Keep it small and simple!

Has anyone compiled a list of citcumnavators by boat length? I know the Pardeys believed in going small. Change that to solo circumnavigators, and the average length would probably shrink even more.

Ok, the click bait caught my interest (And now I’m a subscriber). Well presented advice! Thank you

I helped deliver an older Island Packet 38 and I was generally unimpressed. It was one of the hottest boats I’ve been aboard; barely any airflow even with dorades and all the hatches open. The stuffing box is nearly impossible to reach, wedged way down in the keel cavity and only reachable by inserting your upper body down a hatch in the aft cabin. The motion in a seaway was uncomfortable,and as their reputation holds, it was relatively slow. We had to motor-sail almost everywhere we went. My friend’s Pearson 33 is faster. Island Packets are spacious, and well-appointed for the size. They are a compromise, sacrificing some amount of speed and sea-kindliness for internal volume and amenities. Maybe the right fit for some, but not the collection of compromises I would want. My friend’s Valiant 40 hits much closer to the mark for me.

There IS an almost cult-like devotion to Island Packets and they are far from perfect. I can say this as an Island Packet owner. Credit to the fellow who could acknowledge the difficulties and choose better for himself despite desire. Budget has always been an immutable consideration for me but I’ve always been too stupid to be intimidated by leaps in size and displacement.

IP is my ultimate cruising boat, but I bought a 1987 Hunter 35 legend first and have been racing it weekly and cruising pretty often. No regrets. Super cheap to own, insure, and easy to handle. I am also learning about all the systems as I replace and upgrade everything to be like I want. Next summer it will be ready for some coastal cruising in the PNW, crossing the Columbia river bar and heading north. Racing is an amazing way to learn trim and handling in a hurry, I can't recommend it enough! From 2 knots to 30+ knots, Ive been out in everything. Spinnakers and reefing and everything gets used, tweaked, and refined. Cat36 is a great beer can race boat (but not as fast as my Hunter, sorry). Go race!

Ted, agree with the message. First real boat was 24 ft with fixed keel. Total weight about 4000 lbs and 9 hp outboard. After many sails with with a large crew, I got an O’Day 34 to carry more people and to learn systems. A 1982, we did many sails. Only 10 ft longer, but 12,000 lbs dry. Way bigger to handle. As you said, perhaps a smaller vessel would have been better to master various aspects of sailing. Also, my case, if I’m not sailing, I don’t feel bad having spent funds on an expensive vessel. This was under $30k. I never planned to live aboard.

Hi Tim. My name is Mark. Imagine my surprise when I saw the title of your latest video with 'hey Mark' in the title. Especially after all of this time following along and admiring your IP 420!🤔

Great advice. IPs are great at ocean crossing for the reasons you mention. I've crewed a few 30s, and 40s. But for island hops is not the boat. That full keel while great on the ocean, maneuvering is a bit tough some times. It also makes pointing higher into the wind more challenging. One thing not mentioned on the IP is the extra cost of inner forestay and sail. Again, great to have it for ocean crossing, but not so much for Bahamas/Caribbean cruising. I have a 35' 80s sailboat with 4.5 feet draft, that can get in fairly shallow areas, and was relatively affordable, and insurance is below $1k a year. Sure, would prefer more tankage, but I don't plan to cross any oceans, longer than 3 or 4 days, so it matters little.

Very wise thoughts👍🏻😃

Been down that road. Started with a Lighting daysailer in 1967, a Moragn 22 in Florida in 1972, a 24' Mirage race boat in Texas mid 80's, next a Catilina 27 on Lake Erie, then on to a 38 C&C Landfall and the final sailboat a Hunter 40 Legend on the coast of North Carolina. Then on to a 40' Trawler. Of the sailboats the C&C may not have been the boat with the most room but she was fast, really fast and way more sea worthy than any of the others. Flying the Spinnaker on her was a bit of a learning curve. Well worth the adventure and even the big boys with the America's Cup boats go back to the daysailers to keep sharp. Good advice to start with a smaller boat. So I'm proof of the adage, Sailboat, Motor Boat, Motor Home and then Old Age Home. I'm 3/4's there.

Go small, go robust, insure yourself (except for liability, get lots of that), go smart and go now!

Shoulda told him to get smaller IP320 or something. They are big enough to cruise on, new enough to not scare away insurance and not too big to scare insurance. I have an IP29 and go everywhere on it. Multiple Gulf of Mexico crossing, Keys, Bahamas, some east coast. 90% of it solo.

Thanks!

A large, heavy boat that is more comfortable in heavy weather is going to not move under sail in light weather for all the same reasons. Understand how and where you will use the boat.

Get your feet wet with a McGregor 26 for around 12k used. You can take it up and down the Keys and with only a couple of feet of draft you can take it anywhere. She is tough enough to take bigger seas with her water ballast and if it gets too hairy, the engines will get you out of trouble like a speed boat. There are two channels on here doing just that and no complaints. Cruise the Florida coast before moving up to a Bahamian vessel to get the experience.

Man you can really motor for a thousand miles? That’s awesome

I started with a 26’ S&S. Then an Alberg 35’ to ( thanks to hurricane Andrew), a Peterson 44. 10 yrs later a Cal ll-46 ketch. Yes the progression over the yrs helped a lot. Also gained a 100 ton masters and a US Sailing cruising instructors cert. ALL of these experiences helped. Each boat was more intimidating but got progressively easier. I sailed all of them thousands of miles. Initially had to use celestial navigation. No plotters or even GPS. yes, I was in Line for the first to buy them as they came into existence! Ok, I understand. You no longer have a lifetime to gain experience. Fastest way is to get professional training and then as Tim says, get an intermediate boat. Many of my students are now sailing the world. You can still do a lot with smaller boats. A number of sister ships to my A 35 and even 30’ have and are still sailing the world. Even though more than 50 yrs old.

And that's what I did. Buying a Catalina 36 MkII because I knew it wouldn't go from Europe across the Atlantic and still carried me from The Netherlands across the North Sea to Norway and the United Kingdom.

Excellent content Captain.

Go small- Go now!

Thank you

curious as to what an "Island Packet"? Enjoy both of your channels!

My sailing voyage of discovery has been an interesting one but for 11 years I have owned a Dehler 34. No regrets at all. Code A rated and quick and so easy to sail it is basically a dinghy on steroids! Little prop walk (for berthing), turns in a tight radius and sails in moderate seas pretty much hands off the wheel. Hardly ever use the autohelm (in general only when downwind to assist with preventing gybes!). Most crew have had no prior experience and have taken to the sailing quickly and easily due to the gentle characteristics. However when I want to push along it's quick! 9kn SOG in a F6 is current record excluding tide plus reefed, yes the side decks got a bit wet at times! Previous owner reported 11kn with spinnaker and wave surfing. Sail safe. “There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats” "A boat is not a toy and the sea is the hard school master"

just a stupid question- i know there is cost but if that boat was 3 to 4 feet longer they’d have two full length double dens instead of those cut outs.

Every aspiring cruiser should learn to sail a dinghy. Apart from that, god advice all around in this video.

Have a look at a Union Polaris 36. For 1/3 of what that Island Paclet was going to cost ( often 1/6 ), you will have a great ship for a crew of 2 ( often 1 ). Your Catalina is a good one too. Start with a 35 or a 36 and you won't go wrong. Stay within your resource. Life is too short otherwise.

Oh, I see if you are on a "production boat" (read as cheap, and poorly constructed) you won't hit bad weather. Brother share some of that stuff you're drinking with me. Too often I watch these You Tube videos which analyze boats as if they were condos. The size of the cockpit, does it have a sugar scoop transom, an island queens is a must, and by all means it must have a dinette for 8, are the metrics by which they are judged. Wrong! Seaworthiness is the first and foremost consideration. I've been in 40 knots with 6 foot seas and the only thing you are thinking about is being safe. Buy quality, and good design and you will never regret it. Besides, when you go to sell, and we all wind up there, you will find your boat has retained a lot more of its value than the production boat you would have paid the same price for. It's not an RV which you can pull to the side of the road and call AAA. Buy quality and be safe.

A person who works should not own a larger boat. A larger boat requires too much screwing around with upgrades and repairs and dealing with an unbelievable bureaucracy. Also don't buy one boat then a few years later sell it and buy another You will be spending your entire life replacing water pumps, worn out alternators, and on and on. It will never end. The most expensive way to go from point A to point B is by a privately owned boat.

Boten zijn duur ,is als je het goed wilt onbetaalbaar . En dan moet je nog alles zelf doen.😮

IP has always been a Pricey brand....good reputation, traditional design doesn't make an entertainment center! livin aboard you will fill it up with non-essentials regardless of size if you stay tied to the dock. Shame on anybody for not thinking about insurance and storage costs when buying any boat of any size,

No ones going to talk about the internal glassed in chain plates

good advice Tim but watch out for footitus G

Is it true? Island Packet hull thickness is quite thin? Someone wanted one, did their homework, and found this issue? Thoughts?

Cuotes to you Tim.

All yachts are a financial waste of money, buying smaller just means wasting money on a boat you wont keep, You might as well buy what you want and spend the money once on the boat you want to keep, just make sure you get the sums right ! You an learn to sail in a dinghy for a fraction of the cost of any yacht.

I don't have the resources to buy a new boat, so I'm only looking at used. I have looked at one of two Island Packet 36s (?). Certainly, the Packets are very well built and seaworthy, but even in the used market, I think they are not worth the extra $ they seem to demand. I noted that the design puts a terrific emphasis on salon space and that large expanse of flat sole. Is that the appeal? Not enough to justify the price premium for me. Besides, these boats have no attractive lines, and that glass stubby bow spirit looks so cheap. After some thought, Island Packets are off my list permanently. Just not worth the $, even in the Used market.

Island packet 31

485 is the best!

If you are concerned about your docking skills, firstly get a skilled sailor to teach you. Secondly, steer clear of any full keel, they steer difficult enough let alone in reverse, they are absolute pigs if you have some current to dock.

Not sure I'd take a Catalina 30 across the Gulf Stream to Bahamas.

👍✅🏝

CUOTO!

Island Packets are too fat, toi heavy, have small inefficient rigs, hopelessly outdated keels and rudders. There are much better boats available.

IP makes a superb boat. Don't watch this guys videos.

I am also reminded of many civilian aviation pilots who have the financial means to buy aircraft capable of outperforming the limited skills of the pilot. Sometimes, not always, but sometimes these pilots with high performance aircraft are on the edge of disaster trying to fly well beyond their experience level. It is so easy to get behind an aircraft that is capable of out-performing your ability to control it. Maritime and aviation share similar characteristics that can lead to tragedy very quickly. 🇺🇸⚓️

This is one of the stupidiest videos I've ever watched on youtube. Greatful. Thanks!

No worries, Mark. They will be building IP sailboats for many years into the future. Yours will be one of them…🇺🇸⚓️